ChiefsPlanet - Chiefs our coaching just sucks

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our coaching just sucks (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=193417)

our coaching just sucks

i mean really, even at the position level.

you know how you watch a football preview show like NFL Matchup and they talk about techniques and stuff.

They talk about a cornerback playing with outside technique and stuff like that.

well ........ have you ever watched our players to see if they actually play with any of these really good techniques???

seriously they suck .... most of the time they are running around like high school players with no technique at all.

i'm no expert, but i've played football and know some of the details and techniques myself and our coaching staff should be taken out behind the woodshed and shot.

we are pathetic at virtually ever level

Herm hasn't seen game tape yet, he doesn't really know what you're talking about.

i just saw one in the Bengals vs Cowboys game

the announcer talked about how the DE maintain a free outside arm so that the offensive tackle couldn't prevent him from keeping outside containment.

seriously!!!!!!!!!

muther f***er ....... maybe somebody is some kind of fantasy story should actually tell our DE's about that. :banghead:

Yes, Laz. That makes complete sense. I'm sure Herm, having played cornerback in the NFL, has no idea about the techniques involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5085310)

Yes, Laz. That makes complete sense. I'm sure Herm, having played cornerback in the NFL, has no idea about the techniques involved.

Herm ****ing has no clue and we can't believe in this guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5085310)

Yes, Laz. That makes complete sense. I'm sure Herm, having played cornerback in the NFL, has no idea about the techniques involved.

as usual, you miss the actual point completely

no wonder you are such a great sports journalist, such a keen understanding of things.

No Laz, I got your point.

You think our coaching staff is inept beyond comparison.

You truly make some dumb threads, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5085321)

No Laz, I got your point.

You think our coaching staff is inept beyond comparison.

You truly make some dumb threads, dude.

as incomplete as most of your articles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5085310)

Yes, Laz. That makes complete sense. I'm sure Herm, having played cornerback in the NFL, has no idea about the techniques involved.

I'm sure that there are plenty of former CB's that have no idea how to coach the position by communicating what they know. What an irrelevant, though not unexpected, comeback.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5085321)

No Laz, I got your point.

You think our coaching staff is inept beyond comparison.

You truly make some dumb threads, dude.

Going 1-13 has a tendency to make people think like that. That, along with the high-school gameplan and performance of the team today.

Claythan, is Rich Gannon clueless, too? He commented several times how poorly coached our quarterbacks looked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 5085685)

Claythan, is Rich Gannon clueless, too? He commented several times how poorly coached our quarterbacks looked.

I don't doubt the quarterbacks are poorly coached.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 5085685)

Claythan, is Rich Gannon clueless, too? He commented several times how poorly coached our quarterbacks looked.

That's just Gannon spouting off. What does he know that the great Dick Curl doesn't know?

FAX

Tim Krumrie and Dick Curl need to be gone, period. Carl can give them a ride on the way out of town.

Thanks Herm for not letting us down.....

today is just another small example of why you should never coach in the NFL again..

we have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league...total clowns

anyone not sucking carl's dick - yes, that excludes claythan - knows that....

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 5085685)

Claythan, is Rich Gannon clueless, too? He commented several times how poorly coached our quarterbacks looked.

When did Gannon say anything about the coaching? He made several comments about how Huard is useless, right down to calling for him to be benched shortly into the third quarter. But I didnt hear him say anything about the coaching, let alone several things about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris The Great (Post 5085756)

But but but.....Huard was helping the other young players develope :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5085688)

I don't doubt the quarterbacks are poorly coached.

The quarterbacks being poorly coached is a gross understatement.

7 new starters on D. 2 LB's with limited playing time, 2 Rookie corners, 1 rookie and 2 second year D Linemen. They aren't technically sound in the NFL? Color me shocked. Seriously, a young D needs reps. I agree the coaching staff has got to go, but I think more than anything, rookie corners are going to be abused in this league. Our safeties on the other hand, aren't getting any better at this point and still making the same "rookie" mistakes like being out of place in coverage and taking horrible angles.

I actually think our young corners are going to be good. Pollard IMO has been playing good this year

if you're bad, you're bad.

if the coaching is bad, you embarrass yourselves.

i think we know which one we are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris The Great (Post 5085756)

Gannon commented several times about the quarterbacks' terrible footwork, and if you know anything about Rich Gannon, he has said many of times that quarterback coaching is all about teaching proper footwork.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5085703)

Thanks Herm for not letting us down.....

today is just another small example of why you should never coach in the NFL again..

Or why he should have NEVER been named Chiefs HC (and given a raise) :shake:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 5085290)

Yep, It ALL starts with the HC and trickles down. The Chiefs coaching staff is ****ing pathetic.

Herm needed to go before he got here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrickyNicky (Post 5085835)

7 new starters on D. 2 LB's with limited playing time, 2 Rookie corners, 1 rookie and 2 second year D Linemen. They aren't technically sound in the NFL? Color me shocked. Seriously, a young D needs reps. I agree the coaching staff has got to go, but I think more than anything, rookie corners are going to be abused in this league. Our safeties on the other hand, aren't getting any better at this point and still making the same "rookie" mistakes like being out of place in coverage and taking horrible angles.

Oh.. so that explains our R2P2 philosophy on offense. It is designed to give our young defense more reps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by movinbones (Post 5085994)

Oh.. so that explains our R2P2 philosophy on offense. It is designed to give our young defense more reps.

Now you're getting it! :thumb:

Run, run, pass, punt?

Hey....you can't play our defense every week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 5085902)

What, Dick Curl isn't an awsone QB coach?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar (Post 5085846)

I actually think our young corners are going to be good. Pollard IMO has been playing good this year

i think our young corners are going to be good IN SPITE of our coaching.

why is Pollard constantly getting pulled for McGraw then?

why can't Page tackle someone below the freakin helmet?

I wonder how much talent we actually have on either side of the ball. Remember Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards is the one who put these guys together and we haven't seen them play for anyone other than Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards. They could be good or bad. Who really knows?
I don't care what kind of college career some of these guys had, we may find out with a new coach and GM that Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards may have loaded our team with mostly garbage.
Sorry to be so depressing but it is what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acasas4 (Post 5086063)

I wonder how much talent we actually have on either side of the ball. Remember Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards is the one who put these guys together and we haven't seen them play for anyone other than Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards. They could be good or bad. Who really knows?
I don't care what kind of college carrer some of these guys had, we may find out with a new coach and GM that Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards may have loaded our team with mostly garbage.
Sorry to be so depressing but it is what it is.

but don't you think if a player isn't very talented that they would pay special attention to the basics to make up for it?

Are you just now realizing that?

It's been a disease in KC for going on three years now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 5086088)

but don't you think if a player isn't very talented that they would pay special attention to the basics to make up for it?

You would think so but with the brainless wonder Herm "The Great Talent Scout" Edwards coaching them who knows?
I don't believe the players are motivated and I don't think they like playing for this organization. Look at how many of them are just standing around on any given play.
I don't think anyone really knows what we have because we have only seen them play for Herm. I just have my doubts about his scouting ability because his game plans and philosophy are so shitty in general.

Embarrassing... Defense battled all day long.. except for Hali??? Where is this guy? nonexistent in the pass rush..... when your offensive offense is 3 and out most every possession.. oh and 1 and int.. they can't catch their wind.. I liked Herm Edwards but I am asking for him to be fired now. If your going to restart from scratch then clean house at the top too..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Programmer (Post 5086097)

Are you just now realizing that?

It's been a disease in KC for going on three years now.

Yeah but it seems like a lot of people on here think these players would be fine with a new HC and GM. I'm just saying that is probably not the case.

Hali looked horrible. He isn't a very good DE at this point. It's apparent that he needs to go back to the other side where he is actually useful in pursuit.

Honestly, I really did not expect that to happen. Sorry

Laz ---

NFL.com
"Kansas City had no answer for Williams. The Carolina running back had his best game of the season, running around the Chiefs' defense for a career-high 123 yards and two scores, and adding a 25-yard TD catch."

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_i...tab_gamecenter

The only thing Herm has done right is convince the owner to build through the draft. And that has nothing to do with coaching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acasas4 (Post 5086117)

Yeah but it seems like a lot of people on here think these players would be fine with a new HC and GM. I'm just saying that is probably not the case.

With a new HC, any HC, the players on this team would look better. One thing I see is that the player have given up. The offense has been micromanaged outof existence.

I don't care who you play if you can't get LJ more than 2 yards on 7 carries there is a problem with the HC/OC, in this case Hermcuff keeps a no offense offense on the field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Programmer (Post 5086293)

New OC, SAME PROBLEMS. :hmmm: This one's EASY to figure out...

The biggest indication to know that our coaching sucks is to watch our second-level blocking by players at skill positions.

If you ever watch Dallas or Denver, their entire team blocks, including their WRs.

Since we've lost Samie Parker, we haven't had one decent block by a WR.

Now, that's coaching, and nothing else. Because Bowe was highly touted out of LSU for being a great blocker on linebackers. And he hasn't pulled off one memorable block as a member of the Chiefs. I remember one LJ run where Bowe was literally leaping out of the way of defenders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Programmer (Post 5086293)

Yes I know Herm is an idiot. What I don't know is how the players he drafted will perform after he is gone. He is an assclown and the players he has drafted could well be all scrubs for all we know.
Do you have a crystal ball that tells you this player will be great without Herm and this player will not. Give me a fucking break, none of us know what we have here until Herm is gone.
Do you really think he can evaluate NFL talent when he is such a fucking clown as a coach?

After suffering thru today's debacle, there is little doubt - coaching is an issue. I can no longer stand to watch Herm on the sidelines laughing, when we are getting our asses handed to us. The "I need to watch the game film" quote is a classic. Dick Curl is another bad story. KC has reached a lower level of suckness.....maybe a 20-yr. low. The offense is positively awful. We all knew it was a rebuilding process .... but my God. Sorry, but the "get over it" ain't working. Gannon hit the nail on the head....it all starts with the QB ..... and KC has none. Long season is an understatement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain58 (Post 5086108)

Hali continues to be a tremendous disappointment. For my part, I'm tired of making excuses for him. At first, I thought it was injury, then I thought maybe he just needed more time making the transition to the pro game, now I think he's merely a very average player.

He's a first round pick. A Herm pick. That draft class isn't looking very spectacular right now. I pray the latter classes fair better.

Tamba Hali
Bernard Pollard
Brodie Croyle
Marcus Maxey
Tre' Stallings
Jeff Webb
Jarrad Page

FAX

Looks right to me. So why do people think Herm is good at the draft? He obviously isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne (Post 5086543)

Looks right to me. So why do people think Herm is good at the draft? He obviously isn't.

I don't know how that idea got started, Mr. Skip Towne. I've heard it ever since he arrived, though. I just assumed that Herm had drafted well at the Jets, or something.

So far, when you take out the consensus picks, it's kinda iffy.

FAX

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 5085902)

Gannon commented several times about the quarterbacks terrible footwork, and if you know anything about Rich Gannon, he has said many of times that quarterback coaching is all about teaching proper footwork.

So in other words, he never actually said a word about any of the Chiefs coaches. Read in whatever you want, but it was fairly obvious that Gannon was calling Huard a pussy for half the game. You dont call for Tyler Thigpen in the third quarter because you are being critical of the coaching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by banyon (Post 5085360)

I'm sure that there are plenty of former CB's that have no idea how to coach the position by communicating what they know. What an irrelevant, though not unexpected, comeback.

Exactly! I used to say that when he was with the Jets. if me (a fan) can't understand what the **** he's talking about 100% of the time. how do the players listen to him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 5086535)

Actually, Mr. Fax, Marcus Maxey is a baller. You guys shouldnt have cut him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco (Post 5086586)

Actually, Mr. Fax, Marcus Maxey is a baller. You guys shouldnt have cut him.

Where is he now, Mr. SoCalBronco? Hasn't he been released about three times already? Twice by us and once by somebody else ... the Bears, maybe?

FAX

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_geezer (Post 5085471)

Going 1-13 has a tendency to make people think like that. That, along with the high-school gameplan and performance of the team today.

dangit, is herm gameplanning again? i thought he agreed to stop that.

feel your pain, friends. good news is, herm's got history now, should be a shorter stay than we had...

Quote:

Originally Posted by isired (Post 5086646)

dangit, is herm gameplanning again? i thought he agreed to stop that.

feel your pain, friends. good news is, herm's got history now, should be a shorter stay than we had...

You guys sold us a Lemon :cuss:

Quote:

Originally Posted by smittysbar (Post 5086659)

You guys sold us a Lemon :cuss:

isn't there a lemon law out there someplace?

give us back our draft pick!!!!

ill stick up for herm. i think he has brought in solid young talent. it just hasnt jelled yet.

I'm seriously not looking for kudos here....

But...I've been saying for years now....how long can it possibly go (year after year) where we question the talent we have (and not the coaching/personnel directors)???

When Greg Robinson was here....it started as the players not learning his system, but ultimately, he became the scapegoat (to keep the masses from burning the stadium down if Carl didnt make SOME change after the Indy loss)....then, Gunther takes a 2nd tour of duty (pretty much telling you the guy has no marbles in his sack anymore since we fired him over the internet a few years back)...when Gunther arrives again, it goes back to "not having his guys"....so a few years ago - Carl goes out and gets "Gunther's guys" in players such as Kendrell Bell, Ron Edwards, Carlos Hall, etc. etc.....

And the results are the same.

Now...a couple good-looking draft picks in Jarrod Paige, Bernard Pollard, Derrick Johnson (who - all 3, looked very promising and looked good on many NFL teams' draft boards)....

And the results are the same.

I wont even get into the offensive side of the ball where the chiefs have literally been a place where most wide receivers go to die....and where a true rookie QB hasnt been groomed since...well...since almost never!

One other note: Several players over the past few years have escaped the Chiefs organization and have excelled in other defenses....

It is no longer about the players people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris The Great (Post 5086574)

To me, it was pretty obvious Gannon was calling out Huard as a pussy AND calling out the coaching staff about the footwork, because he ripped into Thigpen's footwork, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJasonp (Post 5088352)

It is no longer about the players people.

the talent of the 90s team wasnt that great.

coaching? whats that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly (Post 5088189)

ill stick up for herm. i think he has brought in solid young talent. it just hasnt jelled yet.

Oh goodie a Hermine! We've been looking for you!!

It was DV who drafted DJ and Jarad Allen..

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJasonp (Post 5088352)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBK (Post 5086268)

The only thing Herm has done right is convince the owner to build through the draft. And that has nothing to do with coaching.

rep

i think this will sum up Herm's tenure in KC

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 5086535)

right now that class looks like a steaming pile of shit

I think you guys are being a little harsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Herm (Post 5089186)

I think you guys are being a little harsh

:shake:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5089190)

:shake:

:cuss:

Quote:

Originally Posted by I<3Herm (Post 5089186)

I think you guys are being a little harsh

the results say we aren't

in fact, Herms entire head coaching career pretty much says we are spot on.

Coaching Results

Glossary · CSV · PRE
<table class="sortable stats_table small_text" id="coaching_results"> <thead> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <th class="sort_default_asc" align="left">Year</th> <th class="sort_default_asc" onmouseover="Tip('Player\'s age on December 31st of that year')" align="center">Age</th> <th class="sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" align="left">Tm</th> <th class="sort_default_asc" onmouseover="Tip('League
NFL - National Football League
AFL - American Football League
AAFC - All-American Football Conference
APFA - American Professional Football Association')" align="center">Lg</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games played')" align="center">G</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games Won')" align="center">W</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games Lost')" align="center">L</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Tie Games')" align="center">T</th> <th class="hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Win-Loss Percentage of team
For coaches, minimum to qualify for leading is 50 games.
After 1972, ties are counted as half-wins and half-losses.
Prior, the league didn\'t count them as games in W-L% calculations.')" align="center">W-L%</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Playoff games coached in')" align="center">G plyf</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('All Playoff Wins')" align="center">W plyf</th> <th class="" onmouseover="Tip('Playoff games lost')" align="center">L plyf</th> <th class="show_partial_when_sorting hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Win-Loss Percentage of team in playoffs
For coaches, minimum to qualify for leading is 4 games.
Includes games in the pre-Super Bowl era.')" align="center">W-L%</th> <th class="sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" onmouseover="Tip('Team\'s Finish in Division')" align="center">Rank</th> <th class="sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" align="left">Notes</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2001</td> <td align="right">47</td> <td align="left">New York Jets</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.625</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">.000</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2002</td> <td align="right">48</td> <td align="left">New York Jets</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.563</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">.500</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2003</td> <td align="right">49</td> <td align="left">New York Jets</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.375</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2004</td> <td align="right">50</td> <td align="left">New York Jets</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">10</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.625</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">.500</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2005</td> <td align="right">51</td> <td align="left">New York Jets</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.250</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2006</td> <td align="right">52</td> <td align="left">Kansas City Chiefs</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">9</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.563</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">.000</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2007</td> <td align="right">53</td> <td align="left">Kansas City Chiefs</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.250</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class=""> <td align="left">2008</td> <td align="right">54</td> <td align="left">Kansas City Chiefs</td> <td align="left">NFL</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">.200</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="stat_total"> <td align="left">8 yrs</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">117</td> <td align="right">53</td> <td align="right">64</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td class="" align="right">.453</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">4</td> <td class="" align="right">.333</td> <td align="right">2.8</td> <td align="left">Avg Finish</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="stat_total"> <td align="left">5 yrs</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">NYJ</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">80</td> <td align="right">39</td> <td align="right">41</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td class="" align="right">.488</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td class="" align="right">.400</td> <td align="right">2.6</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> <tr onmouseover="hl(this);" onmouseout="uhl(this);" class="stat_total"> <td align="left">3 yrs</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">KAN</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="right">37</td> <td align="right">14</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td class="non_qual" align="right">.378</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td class="non_qual" align="right">.000</td> <td align="right">3.0</td> <td align="left">
</td> </tr> </tfoot> </table>
Games over .500: -11
Super Bowl Wins: 0
Overall Championships: 0
Conference Championships: 0
Division Championships: 1

[QUOTE=Laz;5089257]the results say we aren't

in fact, Herms entire head coaching career pretty much says we are spot on.

lol. sucks for you guys.

This thread doesn't exactly thrill me... :cuss:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 5089257)

If history repeats itself then we should keep Herm one more year. Please don't post anything like that again.

PhilFree:arrow:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 5089257)

the results say we aren't

in fact, Herms entire head coaching career pretty much says we are spot on.

Point counter point..one of the greatest anti Herm posts of all time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sperm Edwards (Post 400479)

Let me give this a crack.

2000 NYJ (Al Groh): 9-7

• Very up & down year, but most concede it was due to poor motivation & the players just flat-out disliking Groh. Pushed them too hard in preseason & they ran out of gas after starting 6-1.
• Also was Testaverde’s return from Achilles tendon injury.
• Among the teams they beat were Miami (11-5) twice, Tampa Bay (10-6) and Green Bay (9-7). They split with the Colts (10-6).
• Missed chip-shot FG vs Detroit at home. If the Jets had beaten Baltimore the following week they would have made the playoffs. This ultimately cost them a trip to the playoffs.
• Opponents’ records were combined 145-111 (.566).
• Four went to the Pro Bowl (Anderson, Glenn, Lewis, Mawae).
• Other notable players included Chad Pennington, John Abraham, Shaun Ellis, Jason Ferguson, Curtis Martin, and Wayne Chrebet.

2001 NYJ (Herm Edwards): 10-6

• Edwards has no prior HC experience in the NFL, college, high school, or Pop-Warner. Edwards has no prior OC experience at any of those levels. Edwards has no prior DC experience at any of those levels. Edwards was never the special teams coach at any of those levels. As such, Edwards was never responsible for coming up with a game plan for a single football game prior to his hiring.
• Takes over a team with a veteran 3-4 defense with cover-corners, hires a DC (Ted Cottrell) whose specialty is the 3-4, & inserts a 4-man front, cover-2 base package that was successful in Tampa Bay (never considering that TB had 4-5 defensive pro-bowlers who made it work).
• Though the offense had an immobile pocket passer who missed the ’99 season with a ruptured Achilles tendon, and short WRs (Chrebet, Coles, Moss), shifted the team to a west-coast offense under Paul Hackett (who had just been fired for running the USC program into the ground after three years. Since his removal from USC, they are the best team in the USA. Prior to that he was fired from the OC position in KC).
• After an 8.5 sack rookie season, decided to move huge DE Shaun Ellis to DT, a colossal flop.
• Started out 1-2 including an unwatchable offensive plodding vs. the 6-10 Colts (down by three touchdowns we were still eating 8+ minutes of clock up on one drive running the ball in the 2nd half).
• Teams beat were NE (11-5) in the game that Lewis knocked Bledsoe out, Miami (11-5) twice, and Oakland (10-6).
• Eked out 1-point victories vs. the Bengals (6-10), Colts (6-10), and Panthers (1-15) and a 6-pt win vs. the 3-13 Bills before losing to those same Bills in a win-and-we’re-in game 15.
• Made the playoffs on a 50-yd FG in Oakland in the last game.
• Opponents’ records were combined 131-125 (.511).
• Lost the WC game in Oakland.
• Four went to the Pro Bowl (Abraham, Glenn, Martin, Mawae).
• Offense was #26 in yards; #17 in pts
• Defense was #17 in yards; #12 in points.

2002 NYJ: 9-7, Division champions

• In an effort to better enable the team to complete the switch to Edwards’ cover-2 base package, salary-cap purges Aaron Glenn & Marcus Coleman were replaced by Aaron Beasley and Donnie Abraham. To better facilitate Ellis’ move to DT, Edwards brought in DE Steve White which led GM Bradway to reach for a speedy DE in the 1st round (Bryan Thomas) to groom behind White. None of the players Edwards knew and/or requested panned out. Only Donnie Abraham proved to be a serviceable starter for 3 years. Since then, Thomas is still 2nd-string; Ellis went back to DE; Beasley (released), Abraham (retired), and White (released) are no longer with the team.
• Team started out 1-4. Their lone win in the first five games resulted from Chad Morton’s kickoff return TD in overtime (his 2nd of the game) vs. the Bills. The following three games, with no injuries to speak of, the Jets were outscored 102-13.
• During that stretch, RB Curtis Martin had two very bad high ankle sprains and did not miss a game. Edwards would not start LaMont Jordan for even one game, or give Jordan as many as 6 carries in any game.
• Game 5 they blew a lead to KC by getting too conservative too early on offense (an Edwards/Hackett trademark for their entire NYJ tenure).
• Game 7 blew a 21-3 lead to the Cleveland Browns & lost 24-21 for the same reason.
• Damien Robinson brought the shotgun to Giants Stadium in the trunk of his car on Oct 14, 2001 (soon after 9/11).
Ellis was moved back to DE and had a sub-par year since he was still carrying the extra weight required for his move to DT.
• Chad Pennington had a magical season and almost single-handedly brought the Jets back from the dead, throwing 22 TD’s to 6 INT’s and going 8-4 in his regular season starts (including the two blown games when the Jets stopped passing way too early).
• With the Jets in control of their own destiny, lost to the (then) 3-10 Chicago Bears.
• Thanks to an improbable outcome in the last game between Miami/NE, the Jets won a three-way tiebreaker as all three teams ended up 9-7. Jets win the division.
• Beat the 10-6 Colts in impressive fashion 41-0 in the wild card game before getting slaughtered 30-10 by the Raiders in the division playoff game a week later.
• After the game, with his star receiver Laveranues Coles not under contract, Edwards comments to the media that the Jets need to get bigger at WR. Coles departs for Washington after the Jets only tender him at $1.3M.
• >.500 teams beat were Miami (9-7), Denver (9-7), NE (9-7), GB (12-4)
• Pro Bowlers were John Abraham and Kevin Mawae

2003 NYJ: 6-10

• Chad Pennington breaks his left wrist in a pre-season game, where rookie FB BJ Askew was responsible for picking up and missing his assignment on the blitz that got Pennington injured. Inexcusable letting a rookie block for the franchise QB in a meaningless preseason game. Pennington is out until game 7.
• Edwards does not let Testaverde start the last pre-season game to work with the first team offense out of fear that he, too, could get injured.
• Testaverde starts very rusty. The offense is not altered at all to take advantage of Testaverde’s arm strength and minimize his lack of mobility (again). Jets lose the first four games, including an embarrassing display of conservatism vs. the Redskins in Washington to kick off the NFL season.
• After winning two games in a row, and with a 10-pt halftime lead over the Eagles, Edwards follows through with his pre-game announcement that Pennington will relieve Vinny during the game. Pennington comes in, blows the lead, and the Jets lose. They also blow a very winnable game to the 4-12 Giants (who would not win another game after that) the following week.
• Won a surprising victory vs the 12-4 Titans who were clearly not taking us seriously. Only other teams they lost to all season (& post-season) were the Colts & Patriots.
• Prior to a late game against New England, Herm is evidently and suddenly not satisfied with Hackett’s game plan of draw plays. He feels we need to be more vertical in the passing game. We know this because he says as much to beat reporters early enough in the week to allow Belichick/Crennel ample time to prepare. Herm (as usual) follows through with his publicized gameplan & Chad throws 5 interceptions for the first & only time in his career.
• Final game we lose yet another winnable game vs. Miami as Herm has officially completed the exorcism of the Jets demons that had plagued Miami.
• Herm decided that the only RB on the team with breakaway speed (Jordan) will now be relegated to goal-line & short-yardage duty. Never mind that he’s a “RB with power” rather than a “power RB.” This is also announced, so any opponent who sees him come into the game (when it’s not garbage-time) is fully aware that the next play will be a handoff to Jordan (more than half his year’s carries were in 2-3 TE sets). In doing this for the entire season, Jordan still has a higher YPC than the “underrated warrior” RB who has the whole field and all the first-second downs to work with unless it’s garbage time to run out the clock at the end of a half. Though healthy, Jordan finishes the year with 46 carries, only 15 of which came after November 1st & only one carry after December 1st.
• On the year, a staggering 87% of the RB carries (including garbage time) went to Curtis Martin so he could amass 1300 yards. By comparison, Jamal Lewis with over 2000 yards got 81%; Ahman Green with almost 1900 yards at 75%.
• Santana Moss starts the year buried behind Wayne Chrebet and Coles replacement–Curtis Conway. No amount of dropped balls gets Conway out of the starting lineup. Only an injury. Once he was finally given the chance, Moss explodes like we all hoped he would when we traded up to draft him two years earlier. He explodes, for 1100 yards and 10 TDs despite only starting 12 games. Numbers never to be approached again until traded.
• Opponents’ records were combined 135-121 (.527), owing much to playing the 14-2 Patriots twice (otherwise we still only went 6-8 (.428) against opponents with a combined .477 win percentage.
• Missed the playoffs
• Two went to the Pro Bowl (Ellis, Mawae).
• Offense was #23 in yards, #21 in pts
• Defense was #20 in yards, #8 in points. Ted Cottrell is fired in the offseason.

2004 NYJ: 10-6

• Team is given the gift of the easiest schedule to start the season in recent memory and win all five of those games, including the Bengals (in Carson Palmer’s first NFL start); the Chargers (one game removed from the NFL’s worst team and two weeks removed from considering starting rookie Phillip Rivers at QB for the season); the 4-12 Dolphins (with no line, no RBs, and a QB controversy in full swing); the then 0-3 Bills; and the 2-14 49ers. Those teams’ combined record at the time of their games with the Jets was 1-11 (1-16 after the losses to the Jets).
• Despite the outcomes, nearly blew the games against the Bengals, Chargers, Bills, and even let the hapless 49ers get out to a 14-0 lead.
• Week 6 the Jets hold the SB champion Patriots (and owners of the #4 offense in 2004) to only 13 points. Our try-to-keep-it-close-until-the-end offensive scheme nets a paltry 7 points (though the rest of the NFL would average over 16 ppg against the Pats).
• After beating up the pathetic Dolphins, the Jets get embarrassed by the Bills as they give us flashbacks to the Ted Cottrell rush-d’s of the past watching Willis McGahee move the chains on 37 carries. Chad Pennington injures his shoulder in the game.
• With Quincy Carter starting effectively and the OL mauling the vaunted Ravens rush defense, the Jets take commanding control of the game, only to watch Hackett/Edwards needlessly attempt an unnecessary HB option that is intercepted and returned for a TD while the Jets were driving into Ravens territory.
• The same game Edwards is caught on camera having Dick Curl telling him how many timeouts we had & when they were to be used; Pennington coaching Herm to instruct Carter on what to do; the clock-killing debacle where Edwards can’t come up with a single play on his own at the end of regulation that put us in a position to have to choose between a play or a FG even though it wasn’t 4th down; also shots of the Ravens’ booth repeatedly and correctly predicting what play would be called as the 4th quarter wound down. In the post-game press conference, Edwards initially lies about a play being relayed to Carter with adequate time, to shift the blame onto the player, before retracting it upon realizing the replay of the game on NFL network showed the polar opposite.
• After beating the 4-12 Browns, 6-10 Cardinals, and 7-9 Texans, the Jets faced the Steelers and failed to score a touchdown as Jordan is stubbornly kept on the sideline despite Martin’s game-long ineffectiveness. (The average opponent scored 16 points per game against the Steelers; the Jets offense managed 12 total points in two games).
• At 10-4, the Jets needed to win one more game to lock up a playoff spot. They came out totally flat for a 23-7 loss vs. NE (the score doesn’t nearly depict how lopsided it was) before losing to the 7-8 Rams. A Buffalo loss to the Steelers 2nd & 3rd-stringers allows the Jets to advance to the post-season anyway.
• Jets squeak by the Chargers despite almost giving the game back on an unsportsmanlike penalty on what should have been the Chargers’ last play in regulation. Chargers missed an overtime FG and the Jets did not.
• Against Pittsburgh, the Jets failed to score a single offensive touchdown. The defense & special teams keep the Jets in the game and are in a position to win it with a field goal despite just missing one the previous possession. With the clock winding down, the Jets decide to predictably run up the middle twice (and get stuffed both times) before Edwards comes up with his crowning achievement as decision maker. Though at Heinz Field, the worst place to kick a FG in the country, and a weak-legged kicker who just missed from >40 yards, it is decided that a 41-yard FG is to be made into a 43-yard FG by kneeling on the ball (which would have been the longest FG ever made at Heinz Field at the time). Brien misses, Jets go on to lose the game.
• Opponents’ record: 134-122 (.523). Played NE (14-2) twice & Pittsburgh (15-1) & lost all 3 games; the other 13 games, Jets opponents record was 91-117 (.438).
• >.500 teams beat: Chargers (12-4), Bills (9-7), Seattle (9-7); also beat the Chargers in the playoffs.
• Two went to the Pro Bowl (J. Abraham, C. Martin).
• Offense was #12 in yds, #17 in pts
• Defense was #7 in yards, #4 in points.

2005:

• The playoff loss is placed on Brien, who is released after the draft, and Paul Hackett, who “resigned” at the close of the season.
• Strength & conditioning coach John Lott quits b/c Herm won't enforce weight restrictions with fines.
• Jets add Ty Law; lose Kareem MacKenzie, LaMont Jordan, Jason Ferguson, and Anthony Becht; trade Santana Moss for Laveranues Coles.
• To complement new OC Mike Heimerdinger, Edwards hires a few coaches who will be learning on the job just like he did. (Heimerdinger would end up coaching these coaches almost as much as the players for the entire season).
• Chad Pennington, who has a close personal relationship with Edwards, is not placed under any pressure to get his necessary shoulder surgery performed as soon as possible (since the recovery time will be lengthy, and the Jets would be installing a new offense under Mike Heimerdinger). Immediately after the season he goes on vacation for a few weeks before getting his necessary surgery. He is clearly neither fully healed nor game-ready by week 1.
• Division rival New England loses OC Charlie Weis and DC Romeo Crennel
• Jets then start losing players to injury right & left (and Herm has the nerve to act shocked after that softy training camp & then sticking with a system that repeatedly got McNair killed with a GOOD offensive line). Fumbled snaps, players winded, meetings with KC's brass the weekend of the Jets-Chiefs game. The season was over before the injuries. I don't even want to go into detail about last season there was so much wrong with it.

:Nuts:

When you've absorbed this, we can go over the marvelous coaching job he's done with KC, mmm-kay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly (Post 5088607)

the talent of the 90s team wasnt that great.

It was on defense at least....and a good offensive line and good RB's.

But...as stated many times on this board...Marty was always good at getting more out of his players and building a winner. Playoffs - a completely different story.

But - I pose this question...what was more fun/entertaining??? 90's chiefs or DV St Louis Rams-offense Chiefs???

Somebody on the board posted a link to mpegs of old chiefs games....I watched the complete '95 SD monday night game the other night.

Watching our d-line get penetration consistently...and watching CB's make plays.....brought a tear to my eye.