WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil
 

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html

In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon:

The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods.

When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair.

“It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.”

Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent.

Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault.

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

Carl Peterson is responsible for that.

Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem.

It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free.

It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk.

Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team.

•Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process.

•Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season.

•Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary.

•Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free.

•And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement.

All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock.

Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises.

But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge.

Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille.

It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money.

You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection.

Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony.

Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl?

The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.

This article will bring a bunch of "I usually never agree with Whitlock but he nailed this one" by the same people that write it for all his articles. LMAO

He's right on this, Carl has created a freaking clusterfudge here and for some reason Clark just keeps writing his checks.

That's a funny line. Electric fans.

Whitlock doesn't get it, does he? Nobody's buying tickets to watch a Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards football team, one way or another. For those who are, they are probably what Blob Gretz calls them, classless and deranged fans anyways.

Let me point this out to you Whitlock, if you are ever still lurking or posting on this board. Name one rookie player, outside of the secondary/defensive backs, that has shown considerate improvement from week in to week out?

Or even better, let's see if there has been any improvement as a team in whole? Other than the close NE game, and the possible fluke win aganist Denver, this team has been downright awful in all aspects of the game. If there isn't any improvement from either the team in some categories, or individual player(s) then who's to blame?

That's right, Herm Edwards and his coaching staff.

Whatever Whitlock, keep defending your so-called lover Herm Edwards, when it's clearly obvious to this fan that the shit has hit the ceiling fan. I'm tired of listening to Herm lame excuses on why things never work. "Oh, I don't know, because I haven't watched the tape yet."

Huh? :spock: Hello, Herm? Were you at the game, or were you fantasizing about your shenanigan needing some attention from your wife or mistress?

Whatever, Whitlock. I encourage you to read this post anyways, although I don't expect you to do so anyways, since you work for the almighty powerful Kansas City Star, and only your opinion matters, and everybody else's opinion don't mean diddly poo.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...49#post4975349

Heh, Claythan can't spell incompetent.

Jason....nails this one. 100% dead-on, on all of this IMHO. :shake:

Herm and Carl were engaged in a fist fight and Jason just dumped a bag of knives on the floor. I hope this escalates.

Handguns, Jason, we need handguns!

What, pray tell, would happen if someone came out and blamed Herm for this mess?

:D

Carl must go. We can't then promote Stiles or Kuharich. I don't know if Clark is smart enough to know that. I think he'll go with someone he's already met and comfortable with and the Good-ole-boy network will continue. Herm is an idiot, sure, but the Front Office is priority #1.

TG is not stupid, he sees that Edwards creates offenses that Herm would have liked to face as a defender. If TG believed that the O was going in the right direction, he wouldn't have tried so hard to get out.

Of course it does still fall on Carl, as he is the dolt who TRADED for Herm, but both guys equally suck and should be equally looking for employment outside of KC.

Herm, once again, throws anyone and everyone under the bus to save his own hide.

Don't say we didn't have plenty of advanced warning about his dumbassery and incompetence.

Amen.

Herm needs to grow a pair. Anyone can see that Carl has hung him out to dry. Carl's shown him total disrespect in this deal. Does Herm get to go to Florida and party down with the owners while the franchise goes to hell in a handbasket? No! Herm has to answer media questions about why HOF players don't want to be on his team any more. To make matters worse, he has a locker room filled to capacity with disfunction and mutual disdain. It's just not fair and Herm owes it to himself, his family, and all that is good and right in this world to jerk down Carl's trousers and gnaw off his nutsack.

FAX

Yeah. He missed it by a year...

or five.

or fifteen.

Clark is a smart dude. I also think he knows he has to make his own bones in the NFL. His father was respected for 1) creating the AFL; 2) winning a SB; and 3) playing a big hand in the merger that created the modern day NFL. Clark hasn't done jack shit. He'll get no respect in club 32 until he does.

I think he cleans house, at least on the football side of the organization.

It's not Carl's fault he missed on his last 82 draft picks.

FAX

I hope you're right.

It'll come across as defending all the head coaches, and I guess it is to a point. But it's funny how all these coaches we bring in seem to become frustrated that things aren't quite what they expected.

Not that Herm is Belichick, don't take it the other way. But the guy did make the playoffs 3 times in 5 years in New York...and he turned a good chunk of that roster over. He's made the playoffs 4 times, most NFL coaches don't last long enough to do that. DV coached teams to the Super Bowl in his other stops. And I'd agree he had some GM help in St. Louis, but he still coached that team, let his coordinators do their thing, they got better and stayed afloat when they put in some nobody at QB. Even Marty built a Super Bowl caliber team in Cleveland, and really built one in San Diego too.

You just get the feeling that if Gonzo or LJ would go somewhere else, they'd light it up again. Or if DV or Herm went somewhere else... not that they'd win a Super Bowl, but they'd probably do better than they did here. And here it's just another disappointment.

To be fair, it was only a series of five-year mistakes.

Lost in all this is the fact that the Chiefs were also trying to get rid themselves of Surtain, Edwards, LJ, and anybody else with more than 3 years experience. Sure, it's a business and everybody knows that, but those guys have to feel a little wierd about showing up for work.

FAX

No big deal. My wife does this every time I look like I'm a problem.

I really respect your football opinions a lot TK13. But if Herm got to spend 5 years with each team in the league on a random rotation, I don't think he wins a single SB in 160 tries, unless he learns along the way. The slope of the Chiefs was downward during his tenure and I'd say the same about the Jets. Ijust don't get a good feeling about Herm Edwards as a coach. Never did.

Have you ever had anyone fightin' over you ??? Not since I was around 25 ... It's the same everywhere ... old is old .... damn I hate sayin' that ...

• Chad Pennington breaks his left wrist in a pre-season game, where rookie FB BJ Askew was responsible for picking up and missing his assignment on the blitz that got Pennington injured. Inexcusable letting a rookie block for the franchise QB in a meaningless preseason game. Pennington is out until game 7.

Wow. Does that sound familiar?

FAX

If Carl goes so does Herm, because that was HIS GUY. Bon voyage bitches!!!!!!!!!!!

... shots of the Ravens’ booth repeatedly and correctly predicting what play would be called as the 4th quarter wound down.

Ouch. I see a pattern developing here.

FAX

• Santana Moss starts the year buried behind Wayne Chrebet and Coles replacement–Curtis Conway. No amount of dropped balls gets Conway out of the starting lineup. Only an injury. Once he was finally given the chance, Moss explodes like we all hoped he would when we traded up to draft him two years earlier. He explodes, for 1100 yards and 10 TDs despite only starting 12 games. Numbers never to be approached again until traded.

This sounds familiar, only its McSackintosh and Taylor. I know theres a huge measurable difference between the two (O-line and WR), but you can see a clear parallel here.

Also, the whole "send in Lamont Jordan only on goal-line and short ydg situations, to the point that opposing teams know exactly that he is going to get the ball" sounds a lot like "send in Charles only on third downs because LJ can't pass block, to the point that opposing teams can set up and tee off."

With the clock winding down, the Jets decide to predictably run up the middle twice (and get stuffed both times) before Edwards comes up with his crowning achievement as decision maker. Though at Heinz Field, the worst place to kick a FG in the country, and a weak-legged kicker who just missed from >40 yards, it is decided that a 41-yard FG is to be made into a 43-yard FG by kneeling on the ball (which would have been the longest FG ever made at Heinz Field at the time). Brien misses, Jets go on to lose the game.

ROFL

FAX

We went through all that BS when we hired Herm. Not going through it again. I personally don't give two cents about any jaded Jets fan opinion. Blah, blah... You could make a list a mile long for most NFL coaches and their stupid decision. Even guys like Shanahan and Holmgren. Heck, a couple weeks ago Belichick got destroyed by the no-QB offense we all thought was a joke.

I don't think Herm's the greatest coach of all time, but I think you could do worse. You don't make the playoffs 4 times in 6 years on accident. You don't. I still believe that. If you don't, tough. That doesn't make you Bill Walsh, but it probably puts you in category with guys like Schottenheimer and way above guys like Linehan or Cam Cameron. I'll fight that to the death, because I'm right, the results prove it. If you gave him Bill Polian feeding him talent he would probably be thought of differently. Maybe not Super Bowls, but probably putting winning teams on the field. If you don't believe that, okay then, you can sit here and be beligerent for 300 some odd posts until your fingers fall off. Oh well. It's pointless... Herm will be lucky to accomplish anything else here.... the bottom line is the entire organization has been sucked into a vortex that will eventually result in nuking half the franchise before we get it right. I've stayed out of it, I'm not getting sucked into this giant ring of depression and anger most of you people have thrown yourself into. That's all I have to say on the matter.

I still can't believe that incompetent twit beat the Broncos.

Good grief.

New GM would expect his own coach. If Carl goes Herm will go with him, or we'll never find a GM....

I'm really sorry that he extended his tenure.

Maybe that was the plan.

I can only hope.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9931/notagainin2.jpg

Seriously, hasnt this been picked apart enough over the years? Why not go around posting a compilation of quotes from Rerun or petegz or one of those guys, it would be just as good.

Regarding Herm being a good coach or not, other GMs will be smart enough to allocate the blame between Herm and Carl, and my prediction is that Herm will get enough of the blame as to never get another head coaching job again.

This feud between Carl and Herm is the most entertaining part of the season. It's like when Al Qaeda began to fight the Baath loyalists -- red on red violence as they say.

Our organization is hopeless and or clueless, probubly both.

As bad as some of the stuff that's happening looks, I think it is necessary. This is the kind of thing that needed to happen to blow up the front office. We want Peterson gone, the only way that can happen, before his planned farewell, is for the Chiefs to be run into the ground. Yes, it should have been done when the Chiefs were merely mediocre and not really bad, but this was needed for real change to come.

I will be shocked if Peterson is retained after this season.

Herm = John McCain
Carl = George W

Both are now distancing themselves from ea other

Some of that is without foundation, but there is a lot of it that is spot on.

Did u miss this part?

"You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons"

This column is more a dig on CP's love affair and unending loyalty to certain players and how it is negatively affecting the team.

Yep this is nothing new. I hate Carl as much as anybody but Herm has just as much blame.

I, for one, am very glad it was posted. I don't think I ever saw that before.

It's true, obviously, that any coach is going to make mistakes and you can dredge up those errors in judgement at any time. It comes with the job, I'm afraid. They keep records of statistics, after all, and fans (like this person) pay close attention. Herm is an interesting case, though.

He is one of the very few who appears committed to making the exact same mistakes over and over again. Why should any fan ignore that problem? To do so would either by optimistic to a fault, ambivalent about the team, or merely ignorant.

Herm is a strange man. He has been elevated far beyond his abilities and Chiefs fans (whose number I count myself among) are saddled with him. He is, therefore, fair game for those of us who have followed and supported and cheered for the team decades before Herm was thrust upon us.

FAX

BS.

Peterson hired Herm. Traded for him even.

Your HC and GM should work as a team, even more so when the HC is the GM's choice. If it doesn't work with your old friend and first choice why would anyone think it could work with Peterson and someone who isn't?

When you fail it's not just one head. You can the GM which means the HC, Coordinators (at least most likely,) and even a good helping of position coaches as the new regime takes over.

You were hired to IMPROVE the team. If you can't after your fourth try (Carl, with 4 different HC's) or your third year (Herm) why keep these people around?

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

And I will. Herm is a terrible HC. He needs to go along with Carl. This organization needs a fresh start.

Yup.

I was a Herm supporter. I figured his positives would outweigh the negatives.

Nope, wrong.

And I'm not willing to give him 10 ****ing years to put the finishing touches on a rebuild that should have started day 1.

If you're the HC/GM of the Chiefs at that time and didn't see the need to heavily infuse youth and talent you're eating paint chips under power lines and washing it down with antifreeze...

Carl seems to make decisions just to assert his own authority. You don't want to play for my team? Well, let's see how much I can stick it to you then...

:hmmm:

I call bullshit. This has nothing to do with Carl Peterson - this has EVERYTHING to do with Clark Hunt. If Clark had a set of nuts, he would have cleaned house in the front office IMEDIATELY! A great example is Miami - look what a swift changing of the guard has done for that team ala Bill Parcels. I am sooooo ****ing sick of this team right now I could scream. Never have I seen such a cluster **** since day one of being a Chiefs fan. I love this team but I do not understand it's ownership. Kick that grease ball shit head Carl Peterson outta here and his entire staff. Tell him to take the remainder of his contract and shove it up his ass!

Clark should have stepped up to the plate and taken anything for Tony Gonzales -3rd, 4th, hell even a 6th. It is about respecting this calibur of player. Greed stopped this trade and now, you have a pro bowl player who is really pissed off. This is going to get a helluva lot worse friends - big time. I used to love game day - now I just want the season to end and wait for a change that will not come for quite sometime. :shake:

He should have.

Starting with a clean slate (even if the spectres of history tailed him) he should have went with a new GM/HC/Pres...

hopefully Clark realizes what a cluster this team is turning into, and that the town, i mean organization, needs an enema

Pretty much.

Okay ... here's another wacky deal for you ...

This strange person on 810 just said a moment ago that Herm wanted to sit LJ for awhile for "conduct detrimental to the team" and Carl vetoed that idea. Said, "no, you can't do that." Has anyone heard anything about this?

FAX

LMAO

HOLY ****ING SHIT... Now I do feel kind of sorry for Herm...just a little

If he doesnt after this year, id say there is no hope for the man. I even might consider switching allegiance to a different team for awhile.

Sounds like BS.

Marty did the same to DT during the 94 game at mile high. I don't think DT got in the game until about midway into the 2nd quarter.

If true it means Marty had more pull than Herm, not that this would shock anyone...

Carl deserves to be fired immediately for hiring Herm in the first place.

Carl certainly doesn't deserve the blame for all of the recent personnel decisions. We've seen Carl bring in very different types of players depending on who was the head coach. Carl certainly listens to his head coach and tries to bring in the guys the coach asks for. When Gun was head coach the team brought in bigger physical players. Vermeil came on and he got his OL, QB and HB and GROB got his players. Gun came in as DC and got his infamous wish list (a year after saying he didn't need anybody it was just the scheme that wasn't working). Herm came aboard and got rid of the Vermeil offensive players and he brought in a bunch of old Jets and put his stamp on the drafts.

No doubt Carl apparently botched the trade of Tony yesterday, but at the end of the day nobody held a gun to Tony's head when he reupped his contract. He knew the direction of the team and he knew Herms ways when he signed on the dotted line.

The entire organization needed to be blown up when DV retired. Clark had the opportunity to do so when his dad passed away, but like his father Clark has sat passively by the first two years and bought into Herm and Carl.

Each and every person in the organization is to blame from the owner on down.

it obviously wasn't about the pick. Carl thought he could play it cool and get what he wanted, Tony would have to shut up because no one gave them a "reasonable" offer.

Carl and Tony and everyone know he's not a part of the rebuilt future of the team. Carl just doesn't want to be without a star player and draw for the fans in the interim.

He didn't expect to get not one but two reasonable offers. So even though one of them may have been from the team that Tony specifically wanted to go to, Carl decides he'll just say screw you.

What's best for the team in trying to win a championship at some point is not the primary issue to him

tony's contract extension predates Herm and this rebuild business, does it not

It was a bizarre statement. The context was the Gonzo deal and the attendant conflict between the two Morons In Charge.

One would think that, were it really true, it would be a bigger story ... Mr. BigRedChief needs to clear this up.

FAX

It does and in response to your previous post I totally agree with you. Carl and Herm had a deal and then Carl changed his mind to **** Tony. This is a BS way to run an organization.

Agreed. New HC should lead to a new direction and building the team that guy's way just like we did with DV and Marty.

If not for a french door for a RT, a porcelain QB, and a cluless HC the rebuild wouldn't be this far behind. Herm has drafted some damned good talent.

A lot is there. I don't know if they just don't buy into him and his philosopy or what but what we do have should be showing better results. It's the fumblings of Carl mixed in with the "If I say you're OK it means you're not OK" nonesense of Herm on top.

And DV had "his" guys. DV would fight to the end for Dante, Green, etc.

Who do you feel Herm would do that for? Who are "Herm's Guys?"

Short answer: NO ONE...

No it doesn't. Tony extended his contract in January 2007. That was after Herm's first year and after the loss to the Colts in the playoffs.

Oddly enough that's when the elderly talent started to bail...

I'm actually happy that Carl put his foot down and said no on this one.

What do the Chiefs gain from it? Gonzalez will play out this year. He's certainly unhappy so who knows how productive he'll be. He'll certainly request a trade in the offseason and possibly retire without the Chiefs receiving any compensation or less than a 3rd round pick.

So no matter the player use the Madden 2x strategy of trading them off before the year they retire so you get something?

The player retiring as a Chief means nothing?...

Yeah, giving up Tony for what basically is a 4th rounder really doesn't appeal to me, I think I'd get more enjoyment watching him plat for the next 2 years in red and gold, than waiting for a very high 3rd rounder maybe pan out.

Apparently is doesn't mean much to the player.

According to Tony when he signed they said nothing about rebuilding.

Last year they didn't rebuild at all they just tried to plug holes and get to the playoffs.

So Tony was right.

:popcorn:PBJPBJ:popcorn:

Tony extended his contract after Herm's first year. Toward the end of the year and after the playoff loss to the Colts where the Chiefs offense consisted of repeatedly running LJ into 8 man defensive fronts guys like LJ, Tony and Green all came out and made comments about the questionable play calling and direction of the offense. Tony was on notice.

Tony would also have to blind to see that the team didn't need to be rebuilt. The offense was getting old and Herm had already begun to bring in players that would buy into Herm's drivel.

The Chiefs have been rebuilding for three years. You don't need to play 10 rookies to begin rebuilding. Herm has given his draft picks and free agent signings plenty of playing time from day one.

My feelings and memories win out when it comes to drafted life-long Chiefs. Hands down. Every time.

Hell, isn't that why we're here arguing?...

Tony was nuts-deep in a contract he really couldn't wiggle out of. He was stuck.

And frankly, I think he wanted it to work. He WANTED to win in KC, taste some playoff wins, take a swing at a ring.

Only it's pretty clear now it's going to be a LONG WHILE before that happens....

Please be true, sooner rather than later.

Chiefnj you are buying into Carl\Herm's BS about them rebuilding for 2 years. They weren't and everyone knows that. Yeah they plugged in a couple of rookies because they had no one else better. Last year this was the oldest team in the NFL. That is not rebuilding that is plugging holes trying to get by. Also you don't rebuild by starting Damon Huard.

This is a change of strategy to buy time.

The plan failed. The plan was to run a cover 2 with the DV/Saunders/Solari system and improve the D enough to win a playoff game.

Failed hard.

Now we have a real OC who's handcuffed by the HC, the GM, the constantly injured talent, and the looming last year under contract...

Did Hali, Page, Pollard and Webb get a lot of playing time as rookies? Did Bowe, McBride, Tyler, Kolby Smith, Taylor and Nap Harris get playing time last year? Did young guys like Brackenridge and Patterson get a shot?

Teams rebuild with older QB's all the time. Herm gave Croyle every chance in the world to win the starting job last year and Croyle couldn't do it.

Wierd according to Hard Knocks.. Croyle had about as much chance as you or I did at starting.... Carl vetoed that..

That's a ****ing myth...