NFBT - Don't kill convicted murders
 

Sorry about the polical topic. There was a post on another thread about how can Bush sleep at night know that an "innocent" convicted murder might be subject to capital punishment.

THIS REALLY CHAPS MY BUTT!!

It never ceases to amaze me...You can't kill a convicted murder for the off chance that he was innocent. Probability of innocence: 5 in 100. The killing is a form of punishment and deterence. The murder had a choice and took a life.

Yet, it is prefectly sane to kill perfectly innocent kids. Probability of innocence: 100 in 100. The killing is for convience. The kid had no choice so his/her life was taken.

Talk about backward logic. 100 years ago, imagine anyone allowing babys to be killed, yet rallying for criminals??

Sad

Anyone that is FOR abortion has not borne any children. If they do have kids and still believe in abortion...they have to have a heart of stone.

And, from way out of left field.....

Ok, football season has officially started. Let's stick to the theme of the board shall we?

That's your choice. Today was my daughter's first day to ride the bus to school. It was hilarious. It TOTALLY steams me when someone gets holier than thou on capital punishment and yet is selfish enough to say "its my/her body, do what you want".

Again it came up on another thread, I was too steamed to let it rest there!!

The topic said N F B T !!!!! . DON'T OPEN IT!!!

Being against abortion but for capital punishment. You are such a hypocrite. If god forbid your daughter got raped you would be screaming up and down for the right to have an abortion. You sound like a typical republican who preaches about getting the government out of peoples lives but wants to tell someone what to do with their own body.

If I am for abortion and against capitol punishmen, does that make me a hypocrite?

Absolutely not. Abortion is still a womans right. The death penalty seems like a good idea when you think about it but in reality it is unjust because it discriminates along the lines of class.

no, It "discriminates" against those who choose to take the lives of Other Innocent persons while in the midst of a second crime.

But I can see why you'd rather support extinguishing innocents over Murderers, convicted by a JURY OF THEIR PEERS.

~this conversation could wait until March again.

Oh yeah Iowan well how many wealthy murderers do you know of have been put to death? That's what I thought.

I only personally "know" one person on death row, not on a "friendly basis" for the record.

He killed and raped a reeruned girl. He was white and came from a moderate income home. The state of Missouri cooked him to a medium/well and did the world a service.

white.
Middle income(not poor)
Dead.

~service to the world.


I grew up without money but managed to make it this far without robbing, raping, or killing while on a crack binge.

I want Justice for all.....even if it isn't pretty.

I said somone who is wealthy not moderate to middle class.

Punkin,

If more wealthy white men were executed would you support the death penalty?

Seem to remember Ted Bundy being relatively well off.

I don't recall OJ Simpson getting the chair.

Jeffry Dahmer wasn't exactly eating spam....Ted Bundy was well off......dead too.

John Wayne Gacy was fairly well off, and had many connections in different government offices in Chicago.

O.J and Jeffrey Dahmer were both in states where the death penalty was abolished. Bundy was an extreme case of a serial killer. The simple fact is we have a flawed system where 9 times out of 10 money will put you above the law.

Government Bad fire good
 

I did a bit of looking and found many site claiming X number of people have been executed and later found innocent. Strangely I could not find specific examples. I would think it would take a strange combination of circumstances for a dead man to be later exonerated. This in my opinion on this subject.
In civil matters one must only prove their case by a preponderance of the evidence. Criminal matters have must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. If we are to continue to execute people I think there should be an even higher standard applied to those cases. The judicial system is a branch of our government. Our government is by its very nature Incompetent. I am not comfortable with the government making life and death decisions. Just MHO

According to Democrats don't the wealthiest deserve to be punished? I would think the death penalty coupled with the estate tax laws would be a perfect form of wealth redistribution. All we have to do is figure out a way to make the Bill Gates's of the world kill and rape more people.

Punkin.

Again, if more wealthy white men were executed would you support the death penalty?

The economics line is bull****! People who commit murder are executed because they committed murder, not because they are poor. If a rich man is convicted of murder( there are 100's of examples) he can't buy his way out of it. Some might argue he could buy his way out of being convicted, but the death penaly implies conviction...

The simple fact is that poor people are more likely to commit murder while in the act of committing another crime (ie. robbery)...

The death penalty is a RESULT and therefore cannot be judged along socio-economic lines. If you want to help the poor, find out why they are more likely to COMMIT CRIMES, not more likely to be executed.

By the way, I happen to believe that both abortion and the death penalty are wrong...

Look if somone is a serial killer and is on the loose that's an extreme case. For every one of these serial killers that is put death there are literally hundreds of underclass people on death row who were misrepresented and didn't get a fair trial. Until everyone gets a truly fair trial there will always be a flawed system.

Those "underpriveleged" as you call them are often defended by public defenders, trained by and working in the same system as the public prosecutors...seems like a fair fight to me...

If you truly want equity, give all accused 1st degree murderers a public defender, regardless of income...

I'm not talking about race Mr. Blond I'm talking about the fact that the poor are more often misrepresented. Your Bill gates theory holds know weight.

This has turned out to be a very good discussion and I hope all of you will considered what I said. By the way Mr. Blond I'm not a democrat.

So if wealthy people regardless of race were executed in greater numbers you would support it? Are you against the death penalty as immoral and wrong? Or do you just want more rich people included?

I am guessing by your tag line you are not rank and file GOP.

Iowian, agreed having this in march. But it did come up and inflames me.

Public Drunk...

As expected...

My sister was raped. She took a spermacide later. My wife, when younger, used abortion as birth control. I felt like you before...rape/incest/hurt the mom/defective baby...all as reason enough for an abortion.

I will assume that you don't have kids?? THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!!!!!!

From all of the above "reasons", what's wrong with ADOPTATION? There are a ton of folks who would love to have a baby.

To me it is clear cut.

BTW I'm not for killing anybody. I do whoever think that the death penalty has some limited use. We need more deterence. I don't feel we should have to pay $36000 a year to house a convicted murderer. If everyone that was a CONVICTED, to include DNA investigation, MURDERER swung. I think we would have less of a crime problem.

I'm done, I got what I wanted from PD except if he had kids??

What I'm saying is that wealth and social status shouldn't give anyone the right to be above the law. I've got to go but everyone should seriously consider my point.

By the way punkin, I am not a democrate either.

The economic argument doesn't support the death penalty...

It costs more for the appeals and such to condemn someone to death than it does to confine them for 99 years...

Punkin,

Maybe the poor don't always get the best representation, but they still get a jury of their peers. That's 12 everyday people that live with taking another life on their concience. I don't believe you could find 12 people that take that responsibility lightly.

As far as the original topic, which has been argued over and over and over again... what representation do the unborn get???



understanding there will never be agreement on this topic...

Dollar1 I respect your belief not to have an abortion and I am against it as a form of birth control. That being said you still have no right to tell somone that they can't have an abortion and neither does the government. By the way Mr. Blond looking back on it I would have voted for Nader.

her's a thought
 

Zap them with half the power...Just enough so word of mouth could get around....

Nobody wants to die, but noone knows what it feels like, just like being born.

wealth and social status has always and will always be an advantage in all situations. Housing, education, legal, health-care, etc. The answer, IMO, is not in not using the death penalty on CONVICTED murderers. Your point is valid that wealthy criminals (like OJ) with their dream team lawyers can better work the system to garner lighter sentences. However the reason there is more poor criminals on death row is because that is who is committing capital crimes for the most part. Rarely does a wealthy man kill some clerk during a liquor store hold-up because the poor slob saw his face.

Party 1 asks a direct question, daring a response.

Parties 2 and 3 give spot-on answers.

Party 1 draws a 'distinction' out of thin air.

Denise, is that you?

[Sorry to call you that Punkin']