Symbolism: From Dates To Planes
 

Somebody else mentioned this earlier: "9-11".

As I woke up this morning about a 10 till 6 out in Arizona, I woke to see something quite odd on TV. As my eyes grogged-out and I could see, I knew something wasn't right. Then, just minutes later another plane crashed into the WTC.

The date? 9-11-01. The symbolism: You call that number when you have an emergency and today we had one.

The other thing that I find interesting is the choice of airlines: American & United. It really doesn't take a genius to understand the meaning of this.

Sadly, we lost a lot of good people today. People that didn't deserve to die. More importantly, terroism has finally become entrenched on American soil. We have done our share to protect the world in all corners from Idonesia to Khazitkhan. Now, we have to address the issue and align ourselves with foreign countries and bring mass-terroism to an end before more attacks like this occur.

Like it or not, but the way the world opperates changed today. Our freedom was challenged. Our way of life was challenged. How we respond will ultimately decide how countries deal with us. How President Bush responds will send a strong message that he is either a leader or a coward. Our response needs to be swift, severe and memorable.

If it is discovered that Osama bin Laden was responsible...well, we need to sweep Afghanistan until we find him.

In closing, I leave you with this:

"Demonstrators distributed candy in a traditional gesture of celebration. Several Palestinian gunmen shot in the air, while other marchers carried Palestinian flags. Nawal Abdel Fatah, 48, wearing a long, black dress, threw sweets in the air, saying she was happy because "America is the head of the snake, America always stands by Israel in its war against us."

My response:

*****, you haven't seen a snake this pissed off.

I think the "911" thing is a coincidence. Those religious psychos don't even know what "911" is.

In their homeland, the equivalent of 911 is a camel carrying brown ground water.

As far as the airlines of choice, they were going after the planes with the most fuel. United and American are 2 of the most popular airlines in the country, so if you hijack planes ANYWHERE in the country, there's a good chance that at least one of them would be from one of these airlines.

They LEVELED the WORLD TRADE CENTER! I don't think the name on the side of the airplane is needed to get their point across.

Don't underestimate ANY seemingly coincidental symbolism here...

to do so would be a huge mistake.

Trust me, symbollism is huge with these people.

911 means nothing outside of the US.

The date is a coincidence - and it does not matter what these dirtballs consider 'symbolic'... nor does the importance of such.

An act of war must be dealt with swiftly and with deadly efficiency.

Symbolism may be huge with them, but I still don't think they even know what 911 is. That really isn't symbolic, anyway. June 6 would make more sense, since they consider us the "Great Satan".

I guess symbolism is unimportant, anyway. That pile of smoking rubble where the World Trade Center used to be is quite a symbol by itself.

Good grief, they have the internet. They know how to read. If they've ever been in a hotel or used a pay phone they know that 911 means emergency in this country.

IT DOES NOT MATTER!

It's trivial to the extreme. The death toll could very well reach the TENS OF THOUSANDS and you're concerned with the 'significance' of the date in the minds of the perps who did this?

What the @#&% is wrong with you?

I agree. I think this is just a case of someone wanting to seem incredibly observant.

You could probably make something like this up for almost every day of the year.

It DOES matter because this date will probably spawn copy cats over the next few years.

The very act of terrorism exists and thrives on symbolism...

The date isn't going to "spawn" copycats. The maniacs that decide to commit these acts are going to, anyway, regardless of the date.

If they all decide to attack on 9/11, at least we'll know when it's coming.

If this "symbolism" is real in this case, whoever thought of it is a moron. 911? If this wasn't such a tragedy, I'd laugh. It sounds like something The Little Rascals would come up with.

Godamdn, Denise, there are thousands of people dead, who gives rat's *** about the date. please do not come here and start useless arguements!!!

sigh.

there is nothing to argue about.

Alittle knowledge of the cultures behind this and the mentality behind terrorism reveals that these events are not done in a vaccum and down to the last detail of date, time, place, and elements will all be used to convey a certain message.

To think this day was picked at random is naive. The date probably has a variety of symbolic relevance to the perps.

Clint-

You are a homer. I like your posts for the most part, but my post was not meant to prove that I was incredibly observent. People in the Middle East thrive on symbols. It is how they relate. The reference as America being a nasty snake is a signifcant one and one that is commonly used over there on a daily basis.

The intent of the post was to bring up that it was ironic that the event happended on 9-11. Just because you don't think that "911" means anything outside the US, doesn't mean that is the case. These people know America back and front. They know how to get onto planes with guns bypassing security. I am not saying they planned it for this day, but I just find it ironic.

The phrase American and United mean more to these sicko's than Northwest, Delta, or any other carrier. I am not here to start a pissing contest with you, rather I am just sharing my thoughts.

http://www.drudgereport.com/wt.jpg

I get your point, but those symbols only mean something to the uneducated, brainwashed, inbred, backwards idiots that support terrorist actions against the USA. They should mean nothing to American citizens.

The lack of a World Trade Center is all the symbol I need.

If you'd like a better speculation on what the potential symbolism of this date could be, read:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34190,00.html

September 11th is a very important date to Palestinian radicals...

Tell all the families, hey did you know that today is 911...

Symbloism, how about the towers crashing down? The date is MINISCULE compared to the devastation. I swear, oh nevermind. I'd rather talk to someone who realizes how horrible this is, instead of arguing how important symbolism is.

Symbolism is important to people that buy books for the pictures & skip past the front page of the newspaper & go straight to the comics.

They are also the same people that were still scribbling on cave walls while the smart ones were devising a spoken language.

The results of what happened and the why are two different issues...

one can be fully aware of the ramifications of one while completely unaware of the ramifications of the other.

Re: 'understanding the enemy'

Haven't seen much on TV, but what little I saw was Katie Couric interviewing some guy with the intent [paraphrasing here] 'to offer some insight into how the U.S. has so angered the Palestinians.'

WTF!!!! This latest bit of Stockholm syndrome makes her efforts to defend Andrea Yates look like chick-peas.

Stevie Ray-

I realize this is a horrible event. Again, I was just sharing a thought that I had. Is that wrong? If so, that is your problem, not mine. I value and respect you as a poster, but to flame me for posting something like this is ridiculous. Afer reading Clint's thoughts, I felt that I needed to explain my statements a little better.

You are like bad song that won't go away. I see your 911 thread on the park garnerd 3 hits. You could at least come on here and band together with therest of us, instead of playing your SOS.


Marty, I respect what you posted, and I respect you also, I don't think you would start arguing and never see anothers view.

My post was directed to memememe.

The reason (the fact that their society is based on a god that doesn't exist) doesn't matter. All that matters is the end result. These disasters aren't going to end just because we learn about their dumb f_cking symbols.

I've played video games with deeper symbolism than "911". You've got to be kidding me.

Clint,

Bingo. All of the "understanding" in the world won't make it stop. It gets very old being told that we need to "sympathize, understand, and instruct"...

In this case, we should destroy them AND their symbols, as a SYMBOL to the rest of the world that we are not to be ****ed with...

H, no one is saying we need to understand or empathize with the perps...

what I'm saying is that poo-pooing things that seem irrelevent is the way to ensure we don't learn a darn thing from this or any other terrorist event.

Understanding the symbolism behind the martyrdom of the perps and the messages they are trying to convey is very important.

No, this understanding does not take precedent over sympathy for the victims...

when the time is right all aspects of this crime will need to be dissected. The symbolic nature of the act will tell us many things about where the next attack might occur and ultimately how to try to stop it.

Sorry, Denise, but that's the typical thing to do. We need to "learn" from this, blah, blah...

The surest way to prevent this from happening again is to disintegrate all vestiges of the people that aided in this travesty and subsequently send a message to the rest of the world that Allah cannot save anyone from fiery destruction at the hands of the US Government...

I hear that
 

Save that shit for Oprah...

I agree.

The only thing we should "learn" in all of this is how to perform an autopsy on a screaming Palestinian while keeping him alive and alert.

So we go kill innocent people over there just to make ourselves feel better?

I'm sorry, you don't decimate an innocent public because a few of their leaders are ruthless killers. You become the terrorists.
You play right into their hands and perpetuate the cycle if you shoot first and ask questions later.

I'm not saying let anyone off of the hook...

but this knee jerk reaction is extremely dangerous.

We need to look at the cultures involved here and figure out how to proceed...

what action and reaction will achieve the best long term benefit vs. taking a short term revenge and making the problem worse long term.

You anhilate a country completely and their ISN'T any long term problem. I personnally feel responsible as an American for the actions taken by my govt. NO ONE IS INNOCENT IF THEY SUPPORT TERRORISM AGAINST THE UNITED STATES. I sucks but it's true... if you're not part of the solution you ARE part of the problem.

This bullshit about proceeding cautiously is exactly what keeps us at the mercy of these people. They count on our inaction.

I say we make a few blanket declarations about who we want and where they are and any country that stands in the way... we take off the map. AND I MEAN THAT.. we literally destroy every manmade structure within the country and let the neighboring countries divide up the land.

--Kyle

Those "cultures" will look just fine in a flaming pile of rubble.

eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

My God, what a DOPE. Save the touchy feely BS. AMERICANS ARE DEAD IN A PLOT SPAWNED BY THESE SO-CALLED "CULTURES".

I was listening to ABC News on the radio and they had an interview with former NY mayor Koch. He basically said we should do the following.

Tell the countries harboring known terrorists that they have 5 days to deliver said terrorists or evacuate your population centers. If the US doesn't get these assholes they want, then we will destroy everything you have.

He said a lot more, and was very interesting to listen to. He had a very hardline approach, something hopefully our gubment will have as well.


sounds like a great plan to me...

Don't be surprised if George's response is very similar to the July 1945 speech from Truman...

"We will rain fire from the skies..."

That is great Clint. I love that idea.
Extreme,
Let's hope our Pres. has that same type of hardline approach.

Whoever is advocating...
 

months / years of analysis and psychobabble needs to snap out of it.

No one here is advocating that the U.S. "decimate an innocent public because a few of their leaders are ruthless killers."

1. You need to understand that a terrorist realizes that he cannot fight a conventional fight with our forces, and sees everyone as a combatant - children, women, and senior citizens included. Therefore, he seeks to attain political objectives through asymmetric means; in other words, attack us in a way that we have no way of countering. <B>Today, he succeeded in a big way.</B>

2. Our current national security policy prohibits us from conducting assassinations of individuals who threaten our national security. <B>I'm willing to bet that policy is about to change with an executive order.</B>

3. Once we discover which government(s) was complicit in what happened today, they should get a 6-hour warning to evacuate all "non-combatants" from designated targets. At 6-hours + 1 second, those targets become craters, whether they've been evacuated or not. I'm not just talking a few PGMs either; I'm saying carpet-bombed, Arc-Lite type, destruction that renders those areas non-suitable for human habitation, followed 3 hours later with Proctor and the 82d walking through to collect souvenirs. CNN should accompany the paratroopers with live satellite feeds so the entire world sees the consequences of ruthlessly killing our innocent children, women, senior citizens, fathers, and mothers. <B>THIS IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE A TERRORIST UNDERSTANDS, AND THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN!</B>

4. After all this has happened, you'll still be looking "at the cultures involved here and figure out how to proceed... what action and reaction will achieve the best long term benefit vs. taking a short term revenge and making the problem worse long term." When you finally finish your "analysis", no one will care because the problem will no longer exist.

Sorry for the rant, but fed up with people trying to solve the unsolvable through committees and focus groups that merely attempt to make everyone "feel good". People need to stop comparing this to Pearl Harbor. That was a military operation against military targets. America was <B>violated</B> today; this is the worst disaster America has suffered within it's borders.

The <B>only</B> way to prevent terrorism is to kill it swiftly and completely with <B>overwhelming</B> force.

If copycats need a date, they only need use any day of the year. You can symbolize any date and create a link.

Warrior5--

No apology needed--well stated.

Warrior - I have yet to read a better, more thought out post today.

Thank you for putting all of my thoughts into a concise report.

I am forwarding your post to my Representative, Senator, and President today and expressing my desire that it be enacted immediately.