Nick Athan.."Herm is 50/50 on coming back"
 

On the sports spot right now.

What are the requirements to get hired at WPI?

I mean, a 50/50 chance....Athan must have some real inside connections. ROFL

You mean he either will or won't be back next year? My God, this is shocking news.

now clay can come in and say "nick is reporting what is coming out of arrowhead" OR "we know but we cant say until it happens" (then they end up being right:rolleyes:)

Thanks for sharing. What will your next thought be?

Too bad I can't use my two headed coin to determine this one....

Pioli will go to either Cleveland or KC.

KC would be nice, imo.

Tails: Herm returns.
Heads: Herm is fired.

Nick Athan's source.

Herm may come back
Herm might not come back

SWEET I can go to bed now knowing I will sleep well tonite.

The way Clark Hunt keeps talking, unless the new GM is dead set against Herm, he is coming back. I hear the players do like him so that may count for something if that is true.

I'm guessing it would be unprecedented for a front office to be blown up, and a HC with a terrible record keeping his job.

Tell me about it....I about spit up my captain and coke when I heard this.:p

so does this read that herm is 50-50 on himself coming back OR the team is 50-50 WANTING him back? lol

That will tell us what kind of GM will be hired, one that hitches his success on to the tails of Herm, isnt much of a GM.

IF we get a NFL GM from a winning organization, he will want his own guys. IF we promote someone beyond their skill level, whom is over his head, he will keep Herm out of fear to rock the boat so early on...

Herm being here or not will tell us alot about the direction of the franchise.

The team.

I should of clarified, my bad. There is a 50/50 chance he is brought back.

It's great for Nick, because either way he gets to be right for a change.

Dayton Moore was hired in '06 and Buddy Bell stayed on through '07, so perhaps it's a KC thing?

As in players right?

I can see where they would be 50/50 on him. As someone stated they are used to winning and producing, when you add them to a coach that isnt used to winning or producing on this level, you feel cheated and let down.

:LOL:

Yeah, because the record tells the entire story.

:rolleyes:

I remember the good ol' days of 2007 when the Chiefs roster was loaded with veteran talent! Man, that was awesome!

Moore did the right thing. Keep the current guy while you bring in the players...then get a coach in that knows WTF he is doing.


Not sure that can really work with football though. But, with all the rookies and such, I can see the new guy keeping Herm one more year while he focuses on players.

Face it, we need players. We don't need 3-4 or 4-3 or under center or whatever, we just need people who can play football and do things like, oh I don't know, tackle, block, cover, kick FG's?

No, ownership.

Let's forget the overall record. How many years does Herm get to fix a defense? This was his calling card. When he was hired he said, above all else, he was going to build a solid defense.

And we're still waiting.

This.

If Clark is serious about keeping Herm (not just saying things to the media) it is really disappointing and doesn't bode well for the future of the Chiefs. It shows a lack of understanding about the almost certain personality conflicts between a new GM and a lousy hold over coach. It could also seriously scare away the best candidates.

I'm all for improving talent. We just had this discussion a day or two ago. Talent dwarfs all.

That said, I don't understand the logic, in any sport, of keeping a sub-par coach.

And we will be waiting, His talent evaluation is leaving alot to be desired to say the least...

basically it would give a us a yes man GM that has zero control over the HC and a HC that will run and cry to the owner everytime the GM makes him mad...

Priorities? Can't change everything at once?

I agree but to be pragmatic about it I can see why they would keep a sub-par coach, temporarily.

If the coach I really want isn't available but will be next year, let's say, then you would keep Herm for 1 more year.

It would be a very wise idea to let him go. You cannot do a "full" rebuild if you are just going to get a new GM, and still retain a coach, who has proven over and over and over that he is not suited for the job.

Miami shitcanned Cam Cameron
Atlanta hired their own coach

Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Dorsey. That's four rookie starters from ONE draft (the draft that HE controlled). More than likely, at least two of those players will be future Pro Bowlers. Tank Tyler and Turk McBride are both close to making an impact (though McBride belongs inside IMO).

The Chiefs drafted like shit for nearly 20 years. You can't expect Herm to create a great offense or defense with one year of his choices.

Well, this might be the only possibility. And you better be 100 percent confident that: 1. You can get your target. 2. The current coach won't continue to screw things up too badly.

As a GM, once you decide that the coach you have cannot get it done, that's the day the coach should be fired. Immediately. The very moment you arrive, solidly, at that realization.

Dorsey
Albert
Flowers
Carr
Cox
Leggett
Charles
Cottam


Yep, all those guys just suck and have no future, right?

kuharic(sp)?? did he have ANYTHING to do with it?

I think he's had a lot of say in the draft all 3 years. Hali seems to have been his guy, for example. Regarding the first four players you've listed, Flowers is the only player I'd bet on at this point.

I wasn't a fan of Grandpa, but he had the offense up and rolling in the same period of time, and he didn't inherit a powerhouse.

I'm of the mind that HE has started the rebuild and the new GM might give him a shot to see it through next year at least. The 50/50 quote might not be too far off. I can see Gun losing his job and Chan staying since the O has shown some improvement. The ST coordinator needs to be ran out of town first.

Nick is a poor man's Bob Gretz. I have been in the PR office when Nick comes through and he sucks up to everyone and will write whatever the Chiefs PR department tells him to.

At least Gretz was a reporter and later columnist with a major market daily newspaper.

You can pick and choose the guys you want to use to prop up Herm and one could pick and choose the guys that havent panneded out.. Not including the FA signings that have worked out so well in the LB corps...

2006
Hali
Pollard
Croyle
Maxey

2007
mcbride
tyler
K smith
medlock

2008
Morgan
franklin
richardson

This isn't much of a debate, IMO. If a new GM is hired and Herm is still the coach, this situation will officially be fubar. And I'm not saying this as a knock on Edwards.

New GM must have the right to get his guy.

Kind of hard to slam him on that list ain't it?

My only problem with Herm is the lack of the Marty-style toughness.

Herm seems to want to run a Marty type team with a DV mentality.

Marty never cried after a game. That we know of anyway.

Any other way and the GM starts off as a lame duck and cant be taken seriously...

I can't see how any of our defensive coaches are even going to be considered?

Hali=Fine if you play him at his position
Pollard= meh
McBride=jury still out
Tyler=potential but waning
Franklin? As in the WR Franklin? = Just ****ing fine with me.

Considered to be retained? Herm says that if he's back, they're back, too.

Beyond this, this tables the development of a QB for another year. And before we go down this road, everyone is going to have to accept that the pistol probably isn't the long-term answer.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you?

Yeah, let's bust Herm for a couple of 5th and 6th round picks like Medlock, Richardson and Maxey.

JFC.

And to state that Hali has been a bust, along with Tyler and McBride (and Kolby Smith - WTF?) is INSANE.

To even MENTION Morgan, when he's been injured this year and Richardson, who's a sixth round rookie says to me that either you don't understand the draft or you don't understand the NFL.

Wow.

Yeah, I agree. That was the most dominating 3 for 24 performance that I've ever seen.

Y'know what's really sad?

Harry uses this clown as a source.

Dude I can play you like a harp.. This is so so easy. A few strokes of the keys and you are hanging on like a fish...

has ANYONE paid any attention to tank and dorsey these last few weeks? tank has looked pretty good and dorsey was doubleteamed most plays last week, hell last week the de's FINALLY made the most of the double on dorsey

Well then Herm is as good as gone if he really said that and meant it. You never know what they really mean and what they are saying to appear professional?

I don't mind going to a spread O, I really don't. Maybe more shotgun as opposed to Pistol but a spread O does give a shitty O-line more of a chance.

Agree 100%, I am just throwing crap out there and watching Dane take the bait...

Ok, Dane. Let's talk about the original point, though. Why does Herm get a pass for his defense, while Grandpa, the offensive mastermind, could take a shit unit to top-tier in the same amount of time? Both had to "battle" the evil Carl...

At some point, the QB must be able to go under center and be successful. When Thigpen shows he can do this, I'll be more open to the spread, or whatever they're going to call it, being the primary option.

I know the one catch he made that took what, 4 guys to take him down?

I think Franklin can be a great slot WR and maybe a #2 if Bradley or Bowe went down.

I don't know that I agree with that 100%. I would like to give the kid at least a full off-season to practice that stuff and with a line that can also play that style. Obviously the first what, 6-7 games showed us our O-line has a problem blocking when we line up under center.

Also, I could see Thigy being good under center if we incorporate the bootleg style of O the Donks used with Jake.

Dude is going to have to show more consistency with his accuracy.

Right now, I just don't see him as a complete player. I could be wrong, though, and he might continue to develop now that he is truly considered a legit possibility.

I would cut him a little extra slack just because of the way he ended up being the starter. But yes, if it does not improve we have a problem with Thigy.

6-26.

I don't care what direction you view this team is headed, when you're 6-24, you don't deserve any benefit of the doubt. Your ass should be fired.

Romeo Crennell found some defensive talent too in Cleveland with Wimbley, McDonald, Sean Jones, Andra Davis, but you don't see Cleveland fans clamoring for him to return.

Great point.

Have the Chiefs traded their Top 12 pick for a defensive player?

Did they sign the best defensive player in free agency?

Have they traded for a Hall of Famer?

Did the Chiefs already have TWO established 9-Time Pro-Bowlers on the defense in place?

The Chiefs acquired Green, Holmes, Roaf and Weigeman.. They already had Shields, Waters and Gonzales.

Clearly, Vermeil's offense and Edwards defense are mutually exclusive.

Well, they have spent the bulk of their top draft choices on defense. The D-line, which most of us think is pretty shitty, is composed of two 1's, a 2, and a 3. It's sucked.

We have spent a significant amount of FA money on LB's, which are worse than the line. Most of the team's resources have gone to improving the D, but it still sucks. And Herm is a defensive-minded coach.

Admittedly, the team traded its best defensive player, who, ironically, was drafted under DV's watch.

I'm not even asking for Herm's defense to be on par with DV's offenses, but it's not even close. DV, whom I didn't like by the way, generated a #1. Herm has helped assemble a #32.

Wait when did the Chiefs sign the best player in FA? If you're counting Holmes he just turned out to be a great move he was by no means the best thought of player in FA...

He was the after thought who would have, potentially, become a HOFer had he stayed healthy.

I had to catch myself at first, though. I was like, wait, is he talking about Alexander? WTF?

Except we don't know what was really going on behind the scenes between Herm and Carl. I agree this defense sucks ass, injuries or not.

I mean, if it was Herm saying, let's move Hali to LE and make no effort to go sign a serviceable LE via FA, then you got a point.

Somehow given the history of this team, it would not shock me 1 iota to know that Carl told hm this is how it was going to be cause he wasn't uping the $'s.

Carl did nothing to replace the aging O-line as well. So Herm really was handed a piece of shit O and a guy who had 0 business as an OC, as well as a weak DL save Allen, weak secondary and avg LB corps.

Greanted the D should be much further along.

He might of been handed with it, but he hasnt improved it much... Sure he's drafted some players, but he is failing to get the most out of those players, especially after he said "we will fix this defense".

Again, he might be a marginal talent evaluator, but he sure the hell cant back up his mouth with his product on the field...

Yes, yes Dane I know, Carl was surpressing the black man and keeping Herm from achieving his full potential as a HC...

I rather like:

Heads: Herm resigns
Tails: Next GM gives him the boot

I'm willing to accept those odds.

Herm came to this team proclaiming he was going to fix the defense. I don't give a shit about conspiracy theories. He hasn't done it.

I could see if this was his first stop, and didn't have a resume which dictated the same bullshit over and over.

He doesn't learn from his mistakes. His baby, the defense, has regressed every year. He's drafted players with high draft picks to fix the defense. He's moved Derrick Johnson around like he's a street free agent to try to find a home for him when it's obvious he's a strongside backer (he had his best games there last year IMO).

If you are starting fresh, eliminate all ties to this organization. Herm was here before with Carl. Get rid of Gunther. Even Gailey has to go.

Let the GM pick his coach, and let that coach pick all the assistants.

I don't want one trace of the Carl Peterson regime around after the 2008 season.

I think Petegz wants Herm back because a new coach probably signals the end of Thigpen.

I expected us to take a step back on defense this year. I'm guessing Herm did, too.

For us to become the worst in the league because we lost one player is unacceptable and speaks volumes about his coaching ability and talent evaluation.

I like petegz because he's the consumate fan of his teams. He roots for his guys and likes to give them every chance in the world.

I'm much more jaded. I don't give a **** about any player. I just want results.

Agreed.

It also speaks volumes about when he said the entire staff would be invited back next year.

Nothing would be sweeter after the New Year to read about Herm packing his bags.

Results are all I give a **** about.

It also speaks volumes that in 3 years the Chiefs still haven't found 1 god damn linebacker worth a crap

If you were to pin Herm down before the season, though, I don't know how far he actually thought the step back was going to be. Don't forget all the preseason bullshit about how Dorsey was going to collapse the pocket. He was supposed to be a monster, demand and control double teams, even as a rookie. This was the talk out of Arrowhead.

I appreciate the comments. I hope I stay objective on players and teams I like.

I am not ready to call Thigy the next Montana, but I would like to see the kid get a fair shot with a full off-season of preparing as the starter with a decent o-line and decent defense.

If he stinks it up then, I'll be the first to call for his axe.

Especially with that fraud Gunther, the self-proclaimed LB guru.

I don't think a lot of KC fans are like this, however. I'd root for a bunch of TO's if it meant a SB or a Series in baseball.

You're missing the point entirely.

Herm didn't arrive to find three future Hall of Famers on his defense.

He didn't arrive with the #12 overall pick in 2006.

He didn't arrive with very good players like Waters (and Weigemann) joining in free-agency.

He arrived to find a porous defense in serious need of fixing. To add insult to injury, the offensive side of the ball needed serious fixing as well.

You can't "fix" an offense or a defense without a corp of talented players and the Chiefs had neither on either side of the ball.

Hence his reason for wanting a full-rebuild.

Gunther is good with players that can play in his style of D. We all know Cover 2 is not Gunther's gig.

Having said that, he needs to go.

50 / 50 ........ Heh, that's better than I would give him if I were the GM.