Warner > Manning - Writer says
 

Wow, I was the first to post that Warner's performance in this year's playoffs have probably earned him a spot in the HOF, but check this out:

Cold Hard Football Facts: Why Warner is better QB than Manning
By Kerry J. Byrne, Special to SI.com, ColdHardFootballFacts.com


Kurt Warner did more than lift the historically dysfunctional Cardinals franchise into its first Super Bowl on Sunday. He also lifted himself past the Chosen One, Peyton Manning, to right behind Tom Brady on the list of the best quarterbacks in the NFL today.

His performance against Philly in the NFC title game was classic big-game Warner, the type we've rarely seen out of Manning in the playoffs. The Eagles entered the NFC title game with one of the league's best defenses: they ranked fourth in scoring (289 points allowed) and fifth in defensive passer rating (72.9).

It didn't matter.

Warner torched this stingy unit, completing 21 of 28 passes (75 percent) for 279 yards, 9.96 yards per attempt, four touchdowns, no interceptions and a 145.7 passer rating.

It was a nearly perfect statistical game. In fact, over the course of the game, Warner jumped past Joe Montana and into second place on the all-time postseason passer rating list: Warner now boasts a 97.3 postseason passer rating; Montana, 95.6. Only the great Bart Starr was better in the playoffs (104.8).

That's not to say Warner is a better quarterback than Montana. He's not. Montana did it over more games and was nearly flawless in four Super Bowl victories. But it does tell us that Warner's performances over his unusual 11-year NFL career have been nothing less than historic in their nature.

It also tells us that Warner is better than Manning.

Complete story here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1

DT

OK, lets not get too carried away here.

Just a couple years ago everyone thought that Warner was on his way out of the league because he was sucking so bad. Holding onto the ball too long, crouching taking sacks like Huard does, throwing horrible passes into triple coverage etc.

I love the whole Warner story and how hes led the worst franchise ever in sports to the SB, its hard right now to not root for the Cardinals.

But this is just another example how stats can be skewed and twisted to try and make for a story (article)

Hootie is not going to like this.

because it's flat out insane.

I like Kurt Warner. A lot.

He has played GREAT football this postseason...PHENOMENAL football. He's a great, great, great football player.

But come on...

I just wish people would watch Peyton Manning play the game...I think he's SO good that people just love to hate him. Every time the Colts fail they blame Manning...and it's crazy.

Peyton Manning is easily the best QB in the NFL right now...it's not even close...

Kurt Warner's fingers were ****ed up the past few years... they have really taken a beating. It seems like that aren't bothering him much today.

Dunno how that played into his performance, but yeah... with ****ed up fingers its kind of hard to grip the ball and throw it perfectly

Hootie, you're spot on. I'm with you 100%.

And I'm sure Warner's success this (post)season has had absolutely nothing to do with Larry Fitzgerald.

That's it. I'm casting Ben Affleck in the Holliwoodization of the Kurt Warner Story.

So when Indy wins it is due to Peyton but when they lose it is due to something else besides Peyton.............................

We've had this debate before, so no need to go into detail, but I disagree. Strongly.

I agree. Tommy boy and Peyton are in a class of their own.

Right. In the world according to Hootie, he's had to overcome bad defenses and bad coaching. Eddie Kennison is just as good as Marvin Harrison, who is only going to the HOF to begin with because he's had the Greatest QB in NFL History (tm) throwing to him.

And Tom Brady is just a system quarterback who got lucky to get the Greatest Coach in NFL history and have a terrific defense and terrific team around him.

Because Hootie and I might get into it again, I'll state this for the record.

Put Peyton and Tom in a bag, shake 'em up, and I'll be glad to take whichever one steps out first. Seriously, they're both GREAT, and obviously much better than the other QBs in the NFL today.

It's Hootie's "Peyton is the GREATEST and Tom is really good and all, but he's just a system QB" argument that gets me annoyed.

I'm a Chiefs fan.

You're a Patriots fan.

The ONLY reason Tom Brady is considered by some to be better than Peyton Manning is because of postseason success...

Put Peyton Manning on the Patriots and they have AT LEAST the same 3 Super Bowl victories that Tom Brady has...

Peyton Manning is a better QB than Tom Brady...period. I'm not talking about system, wives, girlfriends, oreos or twinkies...I'm talking about QB'ing...and no one is a better QB in the NFL than Peyton Manning. Period.

I hated Peyton Manning...thought he was overrated...then I witnessed him CRUSH me, personally, in 2003 in the playoffs...

People think Tom Brady had a great year last season...Peyton Manning had a better year in 2004...better QB rating...1 less TD pass but he sat the last 3.5 quarters of the last game because it was meaningless...something Brady didn't do...and Peyton Manning has NEVER had a Randy Moss...and you can't tell me that some of Brady's TD passes last year were not totally ridiculous heaves to Randy Moss (catching one with his friggin' armpit in double coverage against Miami)...

Brady is a great QB...he developed into a great QB...he was never meant to be a great QB...he tripped into the perfect situation and he had the perfect mentality for the "Patriots way"...

If Brady was drafted by any other team he would have been a career backup most likely...

Peyton would be Peyton on every single NFL team....no matter if he was drafted by the Colts, Chargers, Chiefs, Patriots, Falcons, Lions or Bucs....

I'm not sure what class Peyton is in, but I think you can find Tom Terrific in Room 103... it's the one marked "Surgery".

my favorite Patriots play a year ago was 1st and goal from the 1...play-action pass every time...I felt SOOOOOOO vindicated when they lost that Super Bowl...that is one of my top 5 sports moments...ever. **** the Patriots. Tom Brady with his sly little laugh when Plaxico guaranteed they'd only score 17 points...I was THRILLLLLLLLLED when they lost...almost as thrilled as I'd be with a Chiefs Super Bowl win...that's how much I hated Tom Brady and the Patriots last year. 18-1 is a HUGE kick in the nuts...it was great.

And this is why people laugh at you.

It's not worth rehashing this argument. It's absurd. You've just lost the debate anyway. Congrats.

See my avatar bitch. :p

What's so absurd about it?

Brady made the best of his opportunity...the confidence of the tuck rule Super Bowl propelled Brady into greatness...

Everything worked out EXACTLY how it had to for Brady to be successful...the best kicker, the best coach, the best front office...

Shit, the Patriots might not have lost a game in the last three seasons with Manning as their QB...

But you're a Patriots fan...three years ago all of us Chiefs fans thought LJ >>> LT...but that was never the case...just like Tom will never touch Peyton...he's not in the same tier, plain and simple...

The Chiefs fans who claim otherwise are just jealous of the Patriots success...

watch Peyton play, watch Tom play, clearly Peyton is better. CLEARLY.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.

and congrats...

The Patriots put together an amazing organization...but the perfect season ended in flames...and if that happened to the Chiefs...it would hurt no matter how many super bowls they had won previously...

If Peyton Manning was that QB...he would have been thrown under the bus as a choker...Tom Brady didn't show up in the Super Bowl...he was flat and played terrible...if he wasn't Tom Brady, people would have realized that...

Tom Brady and Brett Favre get different treatment from the media...but never has been NEARLY as talented as Peyton Manning so it makes sense...

Peyton Manning is the best QB anyone has ever seen and if they tell you differently they are lying.

says the Patriots fan...

Brady was dealt Ace Joker...Manning was dealt 3 6 offsuit...who's going to win more hands?

I agree with Hootie here. Tom Brady is great, but I can't shake this feeling that he would not have the same success in a lot of other places. Yes he is one of the biggest reasons for New England's success. But then the NE system is also a big reason for HIS success. We are seeing the success of that system with Cassel too. Manning, on the other hand IS THE COLTS. Had he been in another team with a reasonably competent coaching staff, I think he would have elevated that team to Colts-like success. I give the edge to Manning.

Are we talking Gin Rummy or Hearts?

I wont' deny that the perfect season would have been a HELL of a cherry on the ice cream sundae. I have no doubt at all that that game will hurt worse than any loss of any team I root for, especially as I'm a pro football fan first and foremost.

But honestly, I've seen 4 Celtics Championships, 2 Red Sox WS and 3 Patriots Super Bowl championships during my sports fan rooting career, and while you get pretty invested, it's not live or die. I still had to go to work the day after the Super Bowl. I didn't get a ring, or bonus check from my boss.

I don't spend each day bitterly regretting that game or anything.

What you need to realize is that Brady already ESTABLISHED his reputation as a clutch QB, so a few problem spots don't destroy his well earned reputation. Manning has FAILED more often than not in the playoffs, with some pretty mediocre stats, which has established a QUESTION as to whether he's clutch or not.

:shrug: Then there are a hell of a lot of liars out there, including Belichick, who has said more than once that there is no quarterback he'd rather have.

I'd have to see Kurt Warner in commercials for at least a half dozen different companies before I could realistically and objectively compare him to PM.

:shrug: I'm going to exit the conversation. I honestly just don't have time for round 12 of this debate. It's all a waste of time anyway, of course, but fun.

don't worry, I told everyone on a different board the Patriots were a 13 win team with Cassell last year and was laughed at...after week 1, when Pollard took Brady out, I guaranteed the Pats would win 10-12 games with Cassell...was laughed at again...

I mean...how many games do the Colts win with Jim Sorgi? I say 2 tops...

Call Manning a choker all you want...Scifres put them inside the 10 7 ****ing times...Manning can only do so much for that team...he single-handedly lead them to the playoffs...that team was AWFUL this year...especially on defense...no running game...1 good receiver and a shitty offensive line...yet Manning, in today's NFL, led that team to 12 wins...

That is insane.

He'll never get the credit he deserves...everyone will always point to Super Bowl's blah blah blah but Larry Fitzgerald said it best...it takes 11 players on both sides...the Patriots have always had the better team and organization, plain and simple...you can point to Givens, Brown, Faulk blah blah blah but there is a reason those players were there...

Michael Jordan made Scottie Pippen a top 50 NBA player of all time...

you don't think Peyton Manning had that same effect on Marvin Harrison?

and I grew up with Michael Jordan...congrats.

Tom Brady led his team into field goal range three times...whoopdee****ingdoo!

When Peyton Manning does it Vanderjagt pushes it 60 yards right...

Vinatieri is more clutch than Tom Brady.

Not picking sides, but what coach is going to say he'd rather have someone else?

None, but it's a RARE comment for a coach to make. I know Belichick hasn't said that about any other player he's had while with the Patriots.

I mean, the tuck rule Super Bowl...Vinatieri made so many ridiculous field goals leading up to the actual Super Bowl, especially against the Raiders, it was frightening...

Put Vanderjagt on the Patriots and they probably have 1 Super Bowl right now...so I'll give Tom terrific one MVP and Vinatieri two...

[must....stop....reading.....this....thread]

don't worry...I'm the same way when someone tries to tell me MJ isn't the best ever...

Except MJ is the best ever...so at least I'm in the right when I get so worked up about it...

You, on the other hand, are a Patriots fan in denial.

Be thankful for Tom Brady, but be reasonable.

He's the 2nd best QB in the NFL...I'd be totally content if the Chiefs landed the 3rd best QB in the NFL...just be happy your team has, easily, the 2nd best QB in the game.

On lunch, so I have some time, but I don't want to start this all up. FRankly, it's gotten old and boring. I'll let you have the last word if you wish after I make these points, though I doubt it's anything i Haven't already said in some other thread.

First, you can bet I'm thankful for having Tom Brady. :D

Second, I agree fully that 2001 involved alot of luck. But if you want to take that one away from us, you probably have to give us the SB last year, because 8 times out of 10, Tyree doesn't catch that ridiculous ball off his helmet, and we win that game too to complete the perfect season. So either way, it's 3 championships if you wish to try to "adjust for" luck.

While you try to suggest that I'm a Pats fan so I'm biased, I ntoe that you may be a Chiefs fan 1st, but you're obviously a Colts fan 2nd, so what is the point?

Finally, I will always agree that the Patriots had the more rounded teams, and the better coach. That's why they won more. I don't say that Brady is "obviously better" than Manning, as you say in reverse. But while you drool over Manning, you should remember that until 2007, Manning had BY FAR more talented players on the offensive side of the ball. It wasn't even close. While I agree Manning helped Harrison look good, that's a two way street, and Harrison certainly helped Manning look good as well.

How many future Hall of Famers has Manning played with offensively?
How many future Hall of Famers has Brady played with offensively?

Brady has had Randy Moss for 1 season.
Manning had Harrison all of his. AND Faulk. AND James.
AND a couple of good complimentary receivers.

Who the better QB is? That's debatable, but don't give me this crap about how Brady's had better offensive weapons. That's a joke.

There's also an article about how Manning did nothing to win his SB ring. He was mediocre during that game.

Goddamn. I hate this Manning vs Brady shit. It is old, stale just like redrum's mom.

Can't we start a new one?

Thiggy vs Delhoumme?
JeMarcus vs Kitna?

Lol. How about Carson's injuries vs. Brodie's? (You can't try and compare stats with those two)

No comparison....I would take Kitna over Jamarcus in a heartbeat! ;)

The debate was settled this year, plain and simple.

Peyton was the only reason the Colts were worth a damn.

Brady lasted 8 minutes and a backup college QB led the Patriots to 11 wins.

I'm sorry, but lightning didn't strike twice in New England...the system is a BIG part of every player's success for New England...QB included.

Would Brady have been in position to be considered 'best ever' if he were drafted by Kansas City in the 6th round? Very doubtful.

Would Peyton still be Peyton if he were a Chief? Yes.

now if the Pats decide they want to keep Cassell, and Brady becomes a Chief, sign me up =)

How the hell did you two turn this into a Brady vs Manning debate?

Can we all just agree that they're in a class of their own and by extension Warner isn't near as good as either and this writer is a fruitcake?

He started it [points at Hootie].

Yes, we can agree on that.