Did Officiating Sway the Outcome of Super Bowl XLIII?
 

Yes or No?

Poll to follow.

P.S. No Gaz option.

Ok, now why I think it did.

1. The mystery second that ticked off the clock before the first 2 minute warning.

2. The iffy facemask called on Rodgers-Cromartie (that could have just as easily been called on the Running Back)

3. The bad Roughing the Passer Call

4. The questionable call at the end of the game (Warner forward pass)

Not to be biased, I don't think there was enough evidence to overturn Roethlisbergers 1st drive TD that was called back.

I don't think so at all. The refs were flag happy, but I don't think they were discriminatory like they were in SB XL.

i see a worse-officiated game than this every week. i don't understand what people are complaining about.


the facemask on rodgers-cromartie was completely obvious. the roughing the passer call was iffy, but it happens every week. the play at the end of the game was a fumble.

i don't see the problem here.

What forward pass?

Oh, you mean the play where the ball was knocked out of his hand and landed at his feet, well before his arm started going forward?

They tried to give the Steelers a TD AGAIN! Just like in SB XL!! I mean, if it's that close, you don't give the score, and then you let the review work it out (like they did on the non-safety call during the play before the penalty-safety). Also, does anyone know if a QB has to have possession of the ball to make a forward pass? I've heard differing arguments, but if a QB can "throw" the ball just by pushing it forward, then that last play would have been an incomplete pass.

I don't know if they made a difference, but I saw more of them then I would like in a game as big as this.

Actually the ball was not slipping out of his hand until his arm was moving forward. The way the defender was touching the ball was keeping it in the control of Warner's hand. By the letter of the law, I believe it was a forward pass.

Take a look at it again. The ball did not land at his feet, and the ball was not slipping before his arm was moving forward.

This is what I was asking. Does a QB need possession of the ball to complete a forward pass? I think everyone can agree (unless they're completely stupid) that Warner lost possession of the ball, but the pushed it forward (I like to use the term "shot put."). If a QB doesn't need possession to make the forward pass, then it should have been incomplete. I was hoping someone could back this up with an actual rule...and I looked in the 2006 rulebook and couldn't find anything saying that you needed to have possession to throw the ball (I know it sounds counter-intuitive....).

The ball was spinning before his arm went forward. At least that's the way I saw it.

IIRC the Qb HAS to have possesion

And the worst part is that if everyone can't agree about it now, after seeing a bunch of replays of it, how could the replay assistant quickly ascertain whether or not he had control?

Right, I figure the same thing, but I was hoping for a link.

sorry no linky, but i'm about 99% sure

I don't think it was an issue, but if anyone should be bitching about calls, it should be Pittsburgh.

It sure looked like the ball hit the ground on Fitzgerald's first TD, and the holding call in the EZ was reeruned.

Notice who made the call?

The Umpire, who from where he was standing couldn't possibly have seen holding - he only could have assumed it.

Had that flag come from the Referee, who had a PERFECT view of the play, I could understand the call.

It sure looked in real time like he got in, and actually I didn't see enough to overturn the ruling on the field and in a regular season game it would have stood. The other he lost control of the ball before attempting to bring his arm forward. You have to have control of the football as you bring your arm forward for it to not be a fumble.

You might be right, but it needed to be reviewed at a minimum. If I'm Whisenhunt(sp), I throwing the red flag out there just to stop the game and let someone know they need to be doing their job(even though I know I can't challenge it).

Having the whole Hochuli controversy here in SD this year, that rule was beaten to death.

Pretty much if the arm is moving forward, and possession is lost, even unintentionally, its an incomplete pass.

In Cutlers case, his arm was not moving forward, so it should have been a fumble.

Even if warner lost control of the ball for a second, he regained it and then lost it again while his arm was moving forward, should have been incomplete, IMO.

delay of game penalty and the game's over anyway

He grabbed onto the defender and fell backwards. If that's not holding, then I don't know what is. I think he could easily see the guy on the ground, bear-hugging the defender.

Not saying it did, but I found this on the net, so I am just going to leave this here....

http://www.steelers12thman.com/steeler7lp.jpg

off topic
did Holmes get a Caddy

I don't think he ever got control back. I think he cocked back, the ball was hit, started spinning, and then he pushed the ball forward without getting possession again.

Interesting, I didn't know that.


I remember Gun tossing that thing out there for all kinds of crazy crap that couldn't be challenged.

What I think should be discussed is if Larry Fitz should have taken a knee at the one when he broke off the 60 yarder to take the lead. Not saying he should know that, but had it come to mind... I honestly would not have trusted the O at the 1 for the game winning TD though... we saw how that went at halftime....

Na, I think the better team won in the end. Pittsburg got a lot of calls their way early, the Cards got a lot their way late. All-in-all, I think the team that deserved to win did.

Even though I was rooting for the Cards.

in the last 2 min. i'm pretty sure thats the call. you cant challenge, offensive penalty stops the game 10 second run off, i could be wrong though

Perhaps.

To me it looked like Woodley pinned the ball to the palm of Warner's hand right before it popped out. Not sure if thats defined as possession or not.

Either way, on this topic, what are the chances that Arizona completes a 60 yard Hail Mary anyways...

The biggest one was the Roughing the Passer call.

That's a tough call. And at that point, I don't think you can do it. Your defense was playing well in the 2nd half.

Wow, if you don't think it was holding you need to take the homer glasses off dude

There is no 10 second run off if the clock is already stopped.

That call was BS. And the chances for Arizona completing the Hail Mary are better than any other team in the NFL.

oh yeah there was a change of possesion.

Oh, and I wish they would have reviewed the fumble/interception, but I think the call was right after reviewing it myself.

How bout the Steeler celebration in the endzone using the Ball as a prop? isnt that a 15 yrd penalty?

I know you can't challenge in the last 2 minutes, but I would play dumb or something. I'm sure Gun or Herm could pull that off pretty well. That might be enough time to draw attention to it and get them to review the play. If the Steelers recoverd the ball then tech you aren't on offense when you do it, but if it's over turned they you are. That's a tough one.

I was saying that it was holding!

Originally Posted by EyePod http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/image...s/viewpost.gif
He grabbed onto the defender and fell backwards. If that's not holding, then I don't know what is. I think he could easily see the guy on the ground, bear-hugging the defender.

Yes. It totally should have been. Again, another missed call.

I know. It was directed at the homer. Sorry about the confusion.

Ignoring the bad fumble call on Warner on the last play of the game for the time being.....

1. According to the rule book, the celebration Santonio Holmes did after scoring the last TD was excessive celebration, and should have been a 15 yard penalty on the kick off. I realize people think it is a dumb rule, but you can't just let it slide when he CLEARLY used the ball as a prop in his celebration. It's been called all year - don't ignore it now.

2. On the Warner incomplete/fumble, a Pittsburgh player (I think Lamarr Woodley) took his helmet off to celebrate before the play had been whistled dead. Again, that is a 15 year penalty according to the rule book, and as Chiefs fans we have seen it called at the end of a game (Dwayne Rudd).

That is 30 extra yards Arizona should have had on the last drive of the game according to the NFL rule book.

With those 30 yards, they would have had a much better shot of getting a last second TD to win the game.

And thats 15 yards for the last drive with 1min. left in the game.

You're missing the point. It WAS holding, but shy of the Umpire having X-Ray vision, he couldn't have seen it - only assumed it.

From the umpire vantage point, there is no physical way he could have seen the lineman's hands. From his angle, it looked like the DLman just bowled over the OLman.

He didn't have him in a bear hug, he had a hold of the front of his jersey and pulled him down towards him - AWAY from the Umpire.

I'm not even saying it was a bad call, just that the Umpire wasn't in position to make it without assuming - especially when the Referee has the perfect vantage point for the call and DOESN'T throw a flag.

hahaha, I thought you were yelling at me. My bad!

Officiating affects every game. The Cardinals got ****ed a few times early on, but they also did a lot of it to themselves, and they were able to overcome it to come back at the end. Everything evened out, and it ultimately came down to the Steelers offense making the plays it needed to make in the clutch.

Super Bowl XL, it was not.

I thought the Woodley penalty was called, but it was adden on after the play (where Pittsburgh got the ball). Now if they didn't... THAT would have been something!

per NFL:

PENALTY on PIT-56-L.Woodley, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, 14 yards, enforced at PIT 43.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playby...08&week=POST21

They're reviewing the call right now and the head of officiating is making official statements on additional reviews right now...shouldnt be an issue the day after.

I thought it was equally crappy on both sides. Not to mention AZ played like crap for most of the game and were lucky to be in it at the end anyway.

I still can't believe they didn't at least take the time to review that final play... it looked like Warner's arm was going forward when the ball was released from his hand.

If the call on that play is overturned and ruled an incomplete pass, you factor in the 15 yard personal foul call against Pittsburgh for the player taking his helmet off, Arizona would have had the ball close to the 35 yard line.

Would anyone argue that Arizona, with Fitzgerald's jumping ability wouldn't have at least had a fighting chance for a throw into the end zone from the 35 yard line?

Unfortunately we'll never know.

Yes. The reviews did right the big wrongs. And most of the penalties on the Cardinals were legitimate. And you don't have those, you don't have to pass as much, and you kill more clock time, giving the Steelers less time at the end for a comeback.

I think they called the second penalty, but because possession had changed they applied it to the Steelers offense. I think.

There was a clear block in the back on that TD right before half-time. The Cardinal player was lining up to make the tackle and a blocker grabbed him with 2 hands on the back and threw him down. Apparently I'm the only one who saw it. Should have been the end of the half.

It's at about :12 in this video:

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DT

Yep it was Super Bowl XLIII

Exactly, and throw in the extra 15 yards they should have had from the Santonio Holmes celebration.

Who knows if they would have scored, but they should have at least had the opportunity.

No, I watched this several times and even a Cardinals fan agreed with me that he blocked on the side. His one hand hit right near the side/back and his left hand was on the shoulder. I think it was mostly a block on the side, not in the back. The block was on Timmy Hightower btw.

I'm surprised the voting is going the way it is.

Officiating effects every game. The Cards got screwed a few times, but if they really wanted to win the game, they could have. The defence on Pits last drive was pathetic.

The funniest thing was that I was talking with my Cardinals fan friend, and he thought that Santonio Holmes wasn't doing a great job. He said that a lot of Steelers fans were disappointing with his play. I said he/they are complete morons, and Holmes is great, but he's just in a very stingy offense. I guess I got that right.

I'm not.

This place is a giant, gaping sandy vag when it comes to the Steelers and officiating.

Regarding something I posted on a thread last week, the Steelers fans are whining again. One of the most exciting Super Bowl endings ever and they want to talk about the holding in the end zone.

YOU WON!

Bump for more votes!!!

well it was obvious holding

Jeez, get rid of instant replay in the NFL. All it has done is raised more questions than before. Think about some of the worst officiated games you have ever seen? The answer will most likely come from a modern era game with replay in effect. Don't give the officials the chance to second guess themselves. All of these high-def shots and 15 different angles really minimizes the importance of an entire game and narrows it down to 3-5 plays, which is a bunch of pickles. I have seriously heard more conversations discussing the officiating, rather than putting the focus on what a great game it was.

I thought that the officiating was bad, but about even. What kills me is the consistency of calls. It seemed like the Cards were getting the ticky tack stuff in the first half and Pitt got it in the 4th quarter.

I don't know if it affected the outcome, but it was bad IMO.

Now not that this is a huge issue, but compared to what Kris Dielman got thrown out for in the game against the Chiefs (you all remember right?), Harrison should have been tossed immediately.

I'm tired of the Steelers getting all the calls. It never fails to amaze me.

Horrible officiating day for that crew.
They botched all kinds of calls.

And that debacle at the end was simply unacceptable.
Review the damn play!

Feels just a little like that's just about every trip to the Superbowl for them huh?

LMAO

This.

If anything, there should have been a review of the last play.

Heh...check out Mike Pereira's wikipedia article before it's too late. The last bullet is the most interesting.

Allegedly, they did.

I made the poll 50/50 :D

How bout a link, n00b?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pereira

Why should I do it myself when I know one of my minions will do it for me? :evil:

...off topic but...

How come there are no yellow/red cards under your post?

You know, not that I was thinking about giving you a Red Card or anything...

Because I am invincible.

Holy Crap, I never noticed that.

Its pretty clear.

I'm not sure how the offsetting penalties would have worked though. Keep in mind, that Arizona was called for a penalty on that play as well.

I think it had a direct result in the game. Heck the Steelers had one drive that led to points continued by 3 personnel fouls. One of which was the weakest roughing the passer calls I have ever seen.

I agree. I think they may have been a touch jaded towards the $tealer$, but not that much. Those crippling offensive holding calls that really did the Cards in were legit.

This was nothing like the raping the Seahawks got.

Tickytack roughing the passer against the cards and then on no less than 5 occasions I see Warner getting his ass clocked.

Holding calls were excessive. Harrison fell down on purpose to get the flags.

Facemask coulda gone against Steelers.

Tons of others I can't remember. All in all, 5-1 ratio in calls. So yeah, it made a difference.

Play of the game was last play of half though. That was the play that won the game. 14 point swing.

Oh did I mention I HATE the FUGGIN STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I disagree. He got pushed on the shoulder. That's not in the back. I really am shocked at how many people think the Cards got jobbed out of the game.

Exactly.