Who thinks Cassel is the next Len Dawson?
 

I read in Gretz's column this morning that the Chiefs are trying to prevent all the fans from thinking that Cassel is the second coming of Len Dawson. He went on to say that it was impossible, because Chiefs fans already think that.

I am wondering who? Who really thinks that? I like the move because it gives us a good prospect for a second round pick. I like the move because I feel like Cassel is at the very least, a John Kitna type QB who can manage the game. That is a nice 'starting' point. It solidifies the position. They aren't under any pressure to draft a guy early to try to 'solve' a problem. Now, they can draft guys late at the QB position in hopes of developing them down the road.

I don't even look at Cassel as the absolute starter on opening day. Yes, I think it is likely that happens. However, if Thigpen takes a big step forward, and Cassel doesn't look great, then Thigpen 'could' be the guy.

In other words, I don't think that Cassel is the next Len Dawson. I 'hope' Cassel is the next Len Dawson. I think Cassel is still ascending in his career.

Heck, I hope that Cassel is the next Trent Green. Seriously, if Cassel can be as effective in this system as Green was in Saunder's system... then the Chiefs made a great move. Especially considering that Cassel would be able to play for a decade here, or nearly twice as long as Trent Green.

Anyways, I don't get the sense that the Chiefs fans think this guy is the next Len Dawson. Am I wrong? Do you think he is the next Len Dawson?

I really don't know. I just hope we improve this D, so Cassel can lead this team to some wins.

I dunno the same people who think Tamba Hali can play OLB?

Dawson? :spock:

Heck, I'd be pleased as punch if he's the second coming of Trent Green. :thumb:

Out of curriosity, I understand Hali is unlikely to become a OLB--even in the 3-4.

However, how did/does Vrabel get the job done there in your opinion? :shrug:

:hmmm:

Exactly. Trent was the best QB this team ever had (in Al's system).

Cassel is much better than Kitna. I'd say closer to a Brad Johnson when he was with the Vikings.

Len Dawson? How about Otto Graham while we are at it.

One thing the trade has done. It sure has exposed the truly dense media in both cities.
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Glad to know we could have had Stafford instead of Brad Johnson with the Vikings.

Yea no kidding.

I enjoyed all the 180 views that happened in a finger snap.

The people that think Cassel is the next Len Dawson must be smoking some good stuff

I thought I was the only one, and I don't think he is the next Len Dawson... so, can't be me.

Maybe it is the same people who thought Sanchez was worth the #3 pick.

Only Lenny Dawson will ever be Lenny Dawson. That being said, the first time Cassle throws an interception, half of the goobers on this board will start calling him Casshole.

Because Vrabel is much bigger and faster than Tamba Hali... oh, wait.

I don't know, how did he do it for so long and be such a key member of three Championship teams and one team that was undefeated going into the Super Bowl?

HGH and roids make Mike Vrabel good, he was complete balls in Pittsburgh...

Don't take this post at face value either but dude has a huge jaw/chin so if you asked me if he ever did HGH I would judging on that say possibly.

How about another obscure to people under 50 reference

He's a cross between John Brodie and Daryl Lamonica
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#1) I don't think Stafford will be available. So, I dont' think the Chiefs could have had Stafford.

#2) The Chiefs certainly could not have taken Stafford with the 34th pick.

#3) The Chiefs would have had to give up at least a late round pick to get Vrabel.

#4) Finally, I liked Stafford. I think he is the cream of the crop and that is the only QB that I would have liked to see at #3. With THAT said, time will tell how good the guy is. Maybe he is the next John Elway, which is who he reminds me of, and who I think he will compare to. Or, maybe he is the next Ryan Leaf.

Either way, the Chiefs have two solid players for the 34th pick AND they can still take a stud at #3, OR trade down and acquire more picks.

Oh, and I think the only way they get Stafford is to trade up, but I could be wrong.

I think you're ****ing reeruned.

What kind of complete deluded moron could possibly believe anything so painfully reeruned?

The guy who started this thread thinks it...

I think a ton of people would have chosen to get Cassel and Vrabel with the 34th pick over drafting Stafford or Sanchez with the #3 pick.

I think most thought that the Chiefs would lose their #3 pick to get him. If nothing else, trading back to #23.

I think if said the Chiefs would get Vrabel and Cassel for #34 AND still keep the #3, there would have been massive support.

There was support when it was reported the Chiefs traded for Vrabel. Many said a fifth or lower for just Vrabel was 'good value'.

I know being intellectually honest isn't your thing, as evidenced by your man love for Sanchez.... but at least try.

I do. In fact, I think he will be a good player in this scheme. The great news is that we get to find out in a few months just how 'reeruned' I am.

I heard Tamba Hali is being tried out at free safety
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That would be so awesome! Hali chasing some TE or a slot WR. Think of the YouTube moments that could bring.

Lets not jump off the deep end here. I don't want Cassell to be the 2nd coming of Len Dawson. I just want him to be himself, and first help lead the Chiefs back to the playoffs. That should be our first concern. Once there, then we can worry about him leading the Chiefs to the promiseland of the Superbowl.

OLB in a 3-4, not a 4-3.

Big difference. Not sure if you are aware.

Tamba Hali: Shutdown corner
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This guy does:

"I got a goo gooo goood brain"

Is Cassel the seventh son of a seventh son? Lenny is.

What # will Cassel wear?

And I got MY ****ing thread-start privileges yanked?!:doh!:

Good God...:spock:

Why did you get yours yanked?

So anyone thinking that Cassel is the next Len Dawson is saying that he is a Hall of Famer, that is a little bit unreasonable expectation. How bout lets start by getting something we havent gotten in 16 years and thats a playoff win.

Has the potential to be maybe Trent Green. There will never be another person like Lenny Dawson to the Chiefs. I hope Cassel is able to begin his own Chiefs legacy. :thumb:

For being stupid.

And that said, stupid comes in many nuances and flavors.

The next Len Dawson will have to come by at some point. Why not now.

Hey, at this point I'll be happy as long as he's not the next Scott Mitchell.

Well, err...not really.

I think either him or Thigpen can be. Thigpen would have had a MUCH better season last year had we put out an actual defense.

This....

Based on his one year as a starter I think Cassel is good enough to be a systems QB that can get KC into the playoffs and win a game or two.

this.

don't judge early, why don't arm chair GM's here let Pioli run the team and see what happens.

A better thread would've been, "Who thinks LJ is the next OJ?"

Cassel has a lot to prove before he can be compared to any Hall of Famer.

It's good to know that Mecca and Hamas will turn every Cassel thread into a Stafford love fest.

I am much closer to believing that LJ would kill his exwife than Cassel would be a Hall of Famer.

With LJ's history of domestic abuse, it isn't much of a leap.

That's what people expect he will be. Now if Trent had won a Super Bowl... ? But he didn't even get a win in the playoffs. :sulk:

That might just be his FLOOR, too.

He's still developing. Like I've said before, it's really the best of both worlds.

He's semi-established and can run an NFL offense. But he's 26 and still learning.

A good defense isn't going to help Thigpen be more accurate or learn to take snaps from a traditional formation.

The guy has GLARING flaws in his game that have everything to do with HIM, not his line, his receivers, his defense, or his coaches.

They're really aiming high, aren't they? :rolleyes:

Few could logically say that Green was the reason the Chiefs didn't win a Super Bowl.

All the Stafford and Sanchez over Curry Arguments were based on if Sanchez or Stafford were just 'top 10' QB's in the NFL, then they are worth more than the best linebacker in the NFL.

Trent Green was top ten in four of the five years he started a full season. He was probably top five in those for years, but easily top ten.

Like I've asked before and was never answered. Did Trent Green keep the Chiefs from winning the Super Bowl in 2003?

No. That offense was championship caliber. The defense sucked. If that D could have stopped ANYTHING the Chiefs would have beaten the Colts and most likely could have gone all the way and everyone here would be hailing Trent Green as a 4,000 yard Super Bowl Champion.
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Green had a great Oline ... Lenny had a great team ... Cassel will need a great team too ... Things have changed you have to have both O and D to compete ...

Point being there is no basis to bashing Green as a guy couldn't win a sb. He would have had he had a defense.
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Can we talk about something more interesting than Trent Green, say...feminine hygiene products?

:D

Patriots would have bitch slapped that team in Foxboro even if we had beaten the Colts.

I would JIMP if he was as effective as green. We're gonna have to have a lot more O-linemen if we expect that to happen.

I bet that team would have dropped 28 on their ass though.

How about we just let Cassel be the first Matt Cassel? There won't ever be another Derrick Thomas or Len Dawson, so why can't we move forward with the guys we have now? I'm not asking you to forget our past greats, but why does Cassel have to be the "next" anybody?

I need some of this optimism. I see Cassel, who will be 27 in May, as Trent Green, at best. And though one could do far worse, I'm ready for a "franchise" guy and not another "system" guy. Someone whose play doesn't drastically fall off when his line is no longer other-worldly.

Hope I'm wrong about Cassel.

Couldn't agree more.

The best thing that could happen for Thigpen would be for people to stop talking about him. Stay off the radar and work on trying to develop because he needs A LOT of work at this point.

I agree, but everybody is always the next somebody, because somebody is always going to compare somebody to somebody, and everybody to everybody, but you don't have to be that somebody, who compares somebody to everybody. Got It?

ROFL yeah I got it...

Welcome nOOb. If you have an opinion, share it. No matter how hard we beat for it.

There will never be another lenny dawson it was a different era. It was nfl vs afl. The afl proved 3 yards and a cloud of dust isn't the only game in town. Thats why there will never be another lenny in terms of his epic hero status but there will be a super bowl winning qb for my beloved chiefs soon.

I think the 'system QB' thing is thrown around way too much. It's not a matter of 'system QB' versus 'franchise quarterback', it's a matter of 'good quarterback' versus 'bad quarterback'. Every quarterback is a system quarterback; every quarterback has a comfort zone, they all have a specific system that fits their attributes. Obvious physical requirements aside (if you can't make the throws you'll never be anything...) greatness comes mostly from intangibles like an ability to see the field and make the right reads quickly, and an ability to sense pressure and know when it's time to get the hell out of the pocket or throw the ball away. Regardless of what system a guy plays in.

If Cassel succeeds here, it'll be because he's good. And because they've put good players around him. And because the system elevates the play of all 11 guys. Because it takes all of that for a guy to become a franchise quarterback. It's like that with everybody, from Brees to Brady to Manning to Ryan to Rivers.

If he doesn't have those intangibles, than, well, no amount of system magic will turn a turd into a diamond.

He may not be Len Dawson, but that's not the real question.

The question is, could he win a SB if we had a defense as good as the 69 Chiefs?

Exactly. Based on one year he's shown he can get a good team 11 wins. He still has room to improve. He still has room to slide.

I don't think being a systems QB is a bad thing. IMHO, almost every QB is a systems QB. Montana was, Brady is and Cassel will likely be one also.

There's merit in what you're saying here. My interpretation, however, is that the franchise vs. system debate has become a euphemism for elite talent vs. above average/serviceable.

This is a more nuanced argument, but not wholly different, from the good/bad terms you use above.

Another way to look at it is " Is he a good enough qb to beat the best defense? at the time (which minnesota was when lenny played today could be the giants in the sb while matt is playing )
The 69 chief's defense was filled with HOF's but an average qb doesn't score enough points against minnesota to win it.

Another system QB who can't do jackshit without a Hall of Fame line blocking for him?

No thanks.

He won't put up greens numbers but I don't think it's a stretch to think matt could turnout better than green.

Ne never got the chance to do jack shit without a Hall of Fame line.

It looked bad for all few quarters it happened, but we'll still never know.

Uh, 2001?

That was more than a "few" quarters.

:deevee:

You did? WTF is this, Christmas?

First year doesn't count... :-)

Len Dawson sucks, after all, we didn't draft him.

Snoop, Parker and Alexander had great careers after 2001.

Mmm...wisdom. :hmmm:;)

Yes. In September. Way to be on the ball, there Reero! :thumb:

Actually, the Chiefs would have matched up well with the Pats at the time. I am not saying they would have won, but they would have at least made it interesting.

Didn't we lose to them in OT like the year before?...