I think all the 3-4 talk is hooey.
 

I really don't think we're going to a 3-4.

I think Vrabel's position here is a passing down rush end. At this point in his career, it's a smart way to use him.

We don't have a NT. We just don't. We didn't make a play for any of the guys in FA that fit that spot.

We don't really have 3-4 ends. If we were really going to do this, I think we'd have at least looked at Olshansky.

We would basically be wasting last year's #5 overall pick. Also a waste of Hali. So we waste 50% of our last 4 first round picks to switch to a defense we have basically NO personnel for.

We're short at least 1 starting OLB for a 3-4, and really would need another player that could take a lot of snaps as Vrabel is going to need a breather at this stage of his career. Didn't even look at Dansby.

I don't buy it. What's the upside? I don't see any.

I think people are grasping at straws.

Hali was a waste of a draft pick anyway.

Why do you throw him under the bus after one bad year with a horrible defense around him? sounds awful ignorant to me

I don't think we're switching yet. The acquisition of a 34 yr old LB doesn't automatically mean we're going to a 3-4.

As Amnorix pointed out, you don't have to make the switch in one day. It took the Pats nearly 2 years to switch and they still run some 4-3.

I think Pioli & Haley see that this was a 2-14 team last year. They're going to be afraid to run the system they believe in because of picks in the past. That's just my guess.

I think this team will still acquire or draft a NT and move Dorsey to DE. Yeah he's not ideally tall enough but his weight is right about where you want it.

We might see some 3-4 & 4-3 looks next year as it takes time but I fully expect us to go to that(3-4). Just seems like it's going to happen.

I think it's going to be mostly 4-3, with some 3-4 mixed in at times.

The "hybrid", at least in year 1

we will be using a 4-3/3-4 hybrid this year I believe. Probably alot of 43 with some 34 mixed in.

damn, you beat me to it.

They haven't shown a lot of interest in free agents to improve the 4-3.

3 average years. The guy was a First Round draft pick and projected to be great. He has produced an average of 6 sacks and 43 tackles per season.

Yes, the defense sucks... But Tamba hasn't lived up to his hype.

Expect to be almost the same as what was ran in AZ, somewhat of a hybrid 3-4/4-3. They IIRC also dont really have 3-4 personnel as well.

I don't think anyone knows how good or how bad any of the current defensive players on the Chiefs roster is. I think the coaching staff was at least 50% responsible for their ineptness. Look at the defensive players that shipped out and played well for other teams. Particularly, linebackers (Mitchel & Fuijita). And, if Sims was so freaking bad, why did Tampa resign him.

I'm willing to give the new coaching staff a shot at getting the best out of the young players (Hali, Tyler, McBride, Dorsey, Johnson, Page, Pollard, Flowers, Carr, & Leggett)

We're going to run a 3-3... People will run circles around us.

Yeah, our defense was money last year in the 4-3. Why change it?

These.

I wouldnt discount him until hes on a team that actually has an above average defense. I will give him one more year to prove himself until i decide he was really a waste of a pick.

good point, i feel the same way.

This or that.

Something is going to have to give, though.

Mr. Slap Dick was retained, suggesting that Pioli didn't think the coaching was a problem with the line. However, we're still looking at the same front 4 (or 3, depending upon if the switch coming to fruition).

It's either coaching or talent. We can't return the same cast o' shit.

He might be waiting to fire Krumrie. Until he can find the certain person he's looking for.

I doubt it, but its a thought.

Herman Edwards RUINED this defense.

I was not in favor of keeping Krumrie, but he may not have been the problem at all. Don't think for a second (especially given his public comments) that Gunther was pumped up about zone coverage and NOT blitzing...

The DLine produced no sacks, because we never blitzed, so 5-6 guys blocking 4 down linemen is typically not a problem for opposing teams, especially when you never, ever, change anything.

Glad your gone Herm.

I don't think Hali is a bad DE. But I think his role as a rotational DE--that's not a bad thing, but he's not a guy you build a defense around and he is certainly expendable. I say that not because of the numbers he put up last year, but about how completely incapable he was of getting around left tackles. It seems like his success came mostly from Jared Allen pushing quarterbacks in Hali's direction.

So yeah, I think hali could do fine as a rotational DE, but he's not a guy that should stop the chiefs from completely revamping the defense.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you even watch the games.

The Chiefs blitzed plenty last year.

As much as I dislike Whitlock, he pointed out during last season how they were playing Dorsey wrong. He didn't play that way in college and Whitlock says he didn't have the right build to play the way they wanted him to. If a new coordinator can make use of the existing players talents versus trying to make them play in a system they're not built for, you'd think there has to be improvement.

I used to be a Gunther fan but I'm glad he's gone. I think he was a good coordinator when he was the coordinator for a great head coach; Schottenhiemer, Fisher, etc... I think Gunther and Herm together was a disaster.

Don't think for a second that Gun wasn't a big part of the problem.

I watched and/or attended every single game.

I'm not saying that's the sole reason, I'm saying that's a BIG PART of why our defense was so ineffective - they played it safe all year, and it would be extremely difficult to sell me anything different.

I'd suggest you re-screen your extensive vault of Herm Edwards' defensive prowess tapes. All that guy thinks about is coverage.

They sucked blitzing, and they sucked rushing four.

They sucked in general.

And they went into the season with the plan to blitz.

I wouldn't deny that Gun was a HUGE part of the problem, but forcing his system to a severe fault was all on Herm in my book.

Gun I give credit to for the awful play of our linebackers, and the laundry list of things we expected from Derrick Johnson that have yet to surface. LBs were his detail alone and he failed in consecutive years.

Of course Herm was a part of the problem, and a big part at that. However, when a team fields an historically bad unit, all of the parts are working to contribute to building the massive shit burger.

I think what we're going to see is that the biggest part of the problem was an overall lack of talent.

This unit is still going to be carpet bombed, IMO.

Really, the way many teams run the 3-4, it is more like a 5-2.

I think that they will have Vrabel on one side, Hali on the other. I think McBride and Boone play end. I think Dorsey plays NT on passing downs and DE on passing downs.

Igor plays the one position that I think they are very stacked at for the 3-4.

The Chiefs will draft Curry (IMO), put him inside with DJ, and allow Pollard to play in the box.

I think the Chiefs are definitely going to the 3-4, and I think Pollard, DJ and Hali will all benefit from it. Oh, and I think that Dorsey will be much better than most understand.

Id say your correct here. At this point of his career he probably is best as a rotaional DE, but this doesnt mean he is a waste of a pick. He can still bring some value to the team, and like ive said, I wont judge him to much until he has a better D around him. Im not saying Carr or Flowers did a bad job last year, but, maybe if they had played better man coverage on blitzes they would have stalled the QB a little longer and allowed our front to reach the QB more often....Now this goes both ways, as DL and CB play off eachother like a marriage. They both have to be doing the right thing to be successful. When the DL gives push, it allows the CBs to make plays on poorly thrown balls. When CBs hold down their man, it allows the DL to have more time to get to the QB...In the end, this defense was just horrible, and it was very hard to say much about any of our players because they just didnt have a chance.

ROFL

This shit is unbelievable. We have ZERO starting 3-4 defensive ends on the roster. McBride might be a good backup.

Pioli took one look at Hali and probably thought "OK, I better trade for Vrabel or something."

Tamba is the most underated player on the defense. He was injured last year, but the Chiefs were so thin that he couldn't take any games off to get healthy.

Hali can play linebacker!1!

Sorry, he ****ing sucks. And he's garbage in a 3-4.

Yea he's been getting blocked vs the run ever since he came in the league

Boone is perfect at the position. Dorsey can swing inside and outside and McBride is a perfect fit.

Time will tell.

only problem is that weve never seen him play in a 3-4! how can you judge so quickly when it hasnt even happened yet?

Agree with that. That is why I think the move to OLB will greatly benefit him.

It will allow him to use his speed and athleticsm.

Yup. The only guy that keeps you from running a 3-4 is dorsey. Much as I like the guy, you don't resist a scheme switch because of one guy, no matter how good he is. There was never a better time to consider a defensive switch than now.

Wow. Underrated?

Hardly. The guy ****ing sucks and was a terrible first-round selection. You want something more than a rotational player at this draft slot.

Alfonso Boone is a fossil and Mcbride sucks

Flushing the #5 overall selection is just dumb as **** on so many different levels.

You also have to consider how the switch would affect the secondary. Flowers is very promising, too.

That said, it's hard to be more talent depleted than what the D currently is.

I don't think it matters under the Patriots way if you don't play you get dumped.

He led the team in sacks two years ago. He had eight sacks the year before last.

He struggled last year. Why? Well, I think there were a ton of reasons. #1) He switched positions. #2) He was injured a good part of the year and didn't take time off to let it heal like he should have. #3) The Chiefs didn't have a threat on the other side at all and the QB could just roll away from him.

Hali isn't Jared Allen. He isn't a Hall of Famer. But, he is a legit starter on most teams in the NFL.

Even if he doesn't fit here as an OLB, he will be a full time starter at DE here or somewhere else.

I think you are misguided about Hali.

Jesus Christ you moron. Normally I don't attack people but you will not stop with your endless stream of ****ing stupid football opinions.

The front seven is DEVOID OF ****ING TALENT.

WAKE THE **** UP.

HALI DOES NOT HAVE SPEED YOU ****WIT

JESUS CHRIST

Alfonso Boone is on the tail end of his career, but still has a few good years left.

McBride fits best as an undertackle in the 4-3, or a DE in the 3-4. He was playing as a 4-3 DE.

Guys don't look their best playing out of position.

No Claythan we should keep the Cover 2 scheme a few more years to see if Dorsey is a bust or not

he's starting in my Madden as our LOLB, Vrabel is our ROLB, DJ and a draft pick in the middle. Hali's got two sacks in two games. So that means it could happen....

Hali isn't THAT bad. I think he'll be better than people think in the 3-4.

He won't get dominated in the run game as much because there are 5 guys at the LOS instead of 4, and the 3 down linemen will be bigger, space eater type guys.

If our LB's can actually diagnose plays and fill their gaps this year, then I think our run defense should be a lot better because we'll have essentially 5 D-linemen at the LOS.

He ran a similar 40 time to Suggs. Oh, AND he ran the 20 yard shuttle in 4.31 seconds. That is a stout time in that drill. It shows his quickness and initial burst.

McBride plays the run well and that's all he'd be asked to do.

I don't give a shit about 40 times.

Watch a game some time. Hali gets outrun by quarterbacks.

He's a 2nd round bust, Hali is a 1st round bust, Pollard is a 2nd round bust. Hmm there seems to be a theme.


Do you all think Tank Tyler will be good in the 3-4 too?

I want Pioli to cut all these ****ing wastes of space just to shut the reeruns on this board up.

WHY AM I SO ANGRY?

Tell me why Turk will be so bad as a 3-4 end.

Pollard I wouldn't label a bust yet either. He had a rocky start but has improved. He was picked too high, though.

He's slow & stupid. Thats not the Patriot way

He has the strength to be a solid rotational nose tackle.

Agreed. The other thing McBride does a real good job of is driving blockers back. In a 3-4, he'd not only be a guy who helps in run support, but also a guy who can engage blockers and open up lanes for LBs to run through. And he'd be great at that. In fact, I think it's a much more natural fit for him.

Undersized and not that strong.

starting NT with three sacks in two games....

Agreed. He doesn't have the stamina to play every down, but I think he could do okay in that role if he put on some pounds. He also could end up being a decent DE.

Thinking about playing Hali at OLB is suicidal. A colossal disaster waiting to happen.

1. I agree that Hali was out of position to begin the season. No question about this.
2. The quarterback rolling away from Hali had little to do with his lack of production. He was manhandled the entire season, no matter run or pass.
3. If he starts to look like an ascending player and we learn his struggles were indeed due to injury, I'll eat my appropriate serving of crow. I won't be hard to find and I won't dodge the abuse.

I think Hali struggles because he lacks the necessary explosion, overall speed, strength, etc. In short, he's a max-effort guy who lacks the type of elite athleticism necessary to be an impact player.

I give him credit for being an NFL player, just not one you'd be happy having drafted in round 1.

3-4 ends don't have to be fast and I dont think his intelligence has ever been questioned.

He may be a bit undersized though.

Its not Hooey. It might be Dewey or Looie. But its not Hooey.

Up till now, you are right, McBride has been a bust. However, I believe that it is because he was asked to play out of position.

Now, as for Pollard, I think you are incorrect. I think he has been an 'okay' pick. Not 'great' not horrible.

I think Hali was a good pick that had an off year.

We don't know about Dorsey, yet.

Though this point is likely moot in the 3-4.

He's played 3 spots on the line.

Is he a cornerback? Jesus Christ.

"okay" picks don't suck at tackling

I think you're the dumbest fan on this board.

Claythan, think about a player having to learn 3 different positions in the NFL. That would slow him down too.

If you have to keep trying to move a guy, you have two options:

1. The coaches are dumb as ****.
2. Player doesn't have a position. A suck shit tweener.

In McBride's case, I vote for all of the above.

Good defensive ends can do it in their sleep. Mario Williams played at least 2 positions on Houston's shit line, maybe 3, and ****ing kicked ass.

Stop making excuses for these shitty, shitty players. Herm is gone, now we have to hear from the ****ING FANS about how these SHITTY, SHITTY PLAYERS are worth a shit.

:cuss:

Most DE's will if they don't have some pressure coming from the other side to keep the QB in the pocket.

Yet, he is able to make so many tackles down field. Hmm...

LOL...no. Just...no.

Hmm most of the Giants D-linemen play more then 1 positon and do good at it

Wow, someone who I think is clueless, who has obviously never played or coached football, thinks that I am the dumbest fan on this board.

Oh, however will I sleep tonight.

Tell you what disphit.

If Hali is the opening-day starter at outside linebacker this year, I'll sign off the board for a month.

If Hali isn't, you sign off for a month.

Deal?

Sensiblechiefsfan do you think Herm was good at drafting?

Erroneous on both accounts. Maybe height-wise, he's an inch shorter than what you'd want out of a DE, but undersized? He's about 280, which is fine for a DE in a 3-4. It's not that far off from Keisel in Pittsburgh (285) or Trevor Pryce in Baltimore (290). As for strength, he put up 27 reps on the bench in the combine and was always moving blockers in a DE role. His weakness is that he's not particularly fast and he was always a bit of a tweener between DE and DT. That's fine for the DE position.