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-   -   Other Sports Curt Schilling Retires -- is he a HOFer? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=204732)

Amnorix 03-25-2009 09:11 AM
Curt Schilling Retires -- is he a HOFer?
 
So Curt Schilling officially retired earlier this week. Is he a Hall of Famer in your mind, or not?

The stats:

216 wins (light for a HOFer, it's like 80th all-time)
146 losses
.596 Winning Percentage
No Cy Young Awards. Came in 2nd 3 times, and 4th once.
6 All Star Appearances
3.47 ERA
ERA +/- is a whopping +127
3116 strikeouts (15th all time)
11-2 record in playoffs with a 2.23 ERA in 19 starts
3 World Series rings
20 game winner 3 times
The Bloody Sock!
An ungodly K/BB ratio.

It's a close call. The stats alone point to "no", but I keep coming back to two things -- first that he isn't tainted by steroids, and second that there are damn few pitchers over the last 15 years that someone would want starting Game 7 of a World Series over Schilling.

Sully 03-25-2009 09:14 AM
If we include public relations, he's a unanimous HOFer.


Baseball-wise, probably.

Katipan 03-25-2009 09:14 AM
Yes but I'm biased from his time in Arizona.

seclark 03-25-2009 09:19 AM
yes
sec

doomy3 03-25-2009 09:22 AM
Not before Blyleven. He can't get in and trumps just about all of Schilling's stats.

penchief 03-25-2009 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5608809)
Not before Blyleven. He can't get in and trumps just about all of Schilling's stats.
Agreed. I tend to think that Mussina deserves a look before Schilling, as well. Mussina played in the toughest division in baseball his entire career and racked up 280 wins. He always seemed to get the best of Pedro Martinez when they went head to head.

Delano 03-25-2009 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5608809)
Not before Blyleven. He can't get in and trumps just about all of Schilling's stats.
They both need in.

I can not believe Blyleven has not made it yet.

DaKCMan AP 03-25-2009 09:29 AM
DaKCMan AP says yes, and that's all that really matters.

sedated 03-25-2009 09:32 AM
I've never bought all the stat freaks when it comes to baseball. They are the same people who give the Cy Young to the pitcher with the most wins, even though wins are more a product of the team than the pitcher, and is a less significant indicator than the pitcher’s individual numbers (ERA, K/BB, hits, etc).

doomy3 03-25-2009 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608836)
I've never bought all the stat freaks when it comes to baseball. They are the same people who give the Cy Young to the pitcher with the most wins, even though wins are more a product of the team than the pitcher, and is a less significant indicator than the pitcher’s individual numbers (ERA, K/BB, hits, etc).
Those "individual numbers" are stats. All of it is weighed in IMO.

Katipan 03-25-2009 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608836)
They are the same people who give the Cy Young to the pitcher with the most wins, even though wins are more a product of the team than the pitcher, and is a less significant indicator than the pitcher’s individual numbers (ERA, K/BB, hits, etc).
I think it's the whole "if you can STILL get labeled the win even after having 8+ other guys in your koolaid"... thing.

sedated 03-25-2009 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief (Post 5608818)
Mussina played in the toughest division in baseball his entire career and racked up 280 wins.
he also played on the team that won the most, regardless of division. it makes sense he has a lot of wins.

RJ 03-25-2009 09:37 AM
No way.

Schilling just doesn't have the stats, for most of his career he was a good but not great pitcher. I like the guy, but he's no HOF'er.

doomy3 03-25-2009 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608848)
he also played on the team that won the most, regardless of division. it makes sense he has a lot of wins.
He played 10 seasons with BALTIMORE and 8 seasons with the Yankees.

RJ 03-25-2009 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608848)
he also played on the team that won the most, regardless of division. it makes sense he has a lot of wins.

Mussina was a much more consistent pitcher than Schilling.

Also, you're forgetting that Mussina pitched on some really bad Orioles teams.

sedated 03-25-2009 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5608843)
Those "individual numbers" are stats.
thanks, mr. thesaurus.

clearly you missed the post of that post.

they are all stats, but when determining the quality of a player, I prefer to focus on the stats that are a direct result of the that player, rather than the quality of the team around him.

doomy3 03-25-2009 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608867)
thanks, mr. thesaurus.

clearly you missed the post of that post.

they are all stats, but when determining the quality of a player, I prefer to focus on the stats that are a direct result of the that player, rather than the quality of the team around him.
Couldn't figure out what you were trying to say. Your first sentence was that people focused too much on stats, then you posted a bunch of stats. I guess I did miss the post of that post.

penchief 03-25-2009 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608848)
he also played on the team that won the most, regardless of division. it makes sense he has a lot of wins.
Not when he played for the Orioles. And he had to pitch against the likes of New York, Toronto, and Boston in their heydays.

sedated 03-25-2009 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5608860)
He played 10 seasons with BALTIMORE and 8 seasons with the Yankees.
true, I'm probably just stuck on my hatred of the yankees. that's probably also why I want Schill in the HOF - he was the perfect yankee killer.

wasn't Baltimore good for several of those years? I didn't follow baseball back then.

RJ 03-25-2009 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedated (Post 5608874)
true, I'm probably just stuck on my hatred of the yankees. that's probably also why I want Schill in the HOF - he was the perfect yankee killer.

wasn't Baltimore good for several of those years? I didn't follow baseball back then.

Only a few. The bad years outnumbered the good ones.

Dave Lane 03-25-2009 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomy3 (Post 5608809)
Not before Blyleven. He can't get in and trumps just about all of Schilling's stats.
I'm OK with both. Blyleven had such a nasty breaking ball. There must be something in the woodpile that is keeping him out.

Amnorix 03-25-2009 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ (Post 5608865)
Mussina was a much more consistent pitcher than Schilling.

Also, you're forgetting that Mussina pitched on some really bad Orioles teams.
eh. The Orioles were average most of his years with them. Of course, he helped MAKE them average...

I think Mussina is pretty clearly in, however. I also can't quite fathom the Blyleven thing.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=581 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>2000</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>74</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>88</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.457</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>13.5</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,297,031</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1999</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>78</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>84</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.481</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>20.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,431,829</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1998</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>79</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>83</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.488</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>35.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,685,194</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1997</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>98</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>64</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.605</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>-</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,711,132</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1996</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>88</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>74</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.543</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>4.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,646,950</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1995</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>71</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>73</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.493</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>15.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,098,475</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1994</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>63</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>49</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.563</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>6.5</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>2,535,359</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1993</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>85</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>77</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.525</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>10.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,644,965</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1992</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>89</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>73</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.549</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>7.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,567,819</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1991</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>American League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>67</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>95</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.414</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>24.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>2,552,753</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> </TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Amnorix 03-25-2009 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ (Post 5608876)
Only a few. The bad years outnumbered the good ones.
They were under .500 5 of the years he was with them, and over .500 the other 5 years.

They were basically an average team. They weren't the Devil Rays for Chrissakes.

RJ 03-25-2009 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5608900)
They were under .500 5 of the years he was with them, and over .500 the other 5 years.

They were basically an average team. They weren't the Devil Rays for Chrissakes.


Yeah, ok.....but as an Orioles fan it sure felt like it....still does. :(

The O's never should have dealt Schilling, but if I had to pick between him and Mussina I'd take Mussina.

Amnorix 03-25-2009 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ (Post 5608922)
Yeah, ok.....but as an Orioles fan it sure felt like it....still does. :(

The O's never should have dealt Schilling, but if I had to pick between him and Mussina I'd take Mussina.
For an entire career, or for Game 7 of a World Series?

BTW, the same years that were basically .500 for Mussina's Orioles weren't nearly so good for Schilling's Phillies. If you want to adjust their candidacy for the suckiness of the team around them, then Schilling gets a bigger adjustment than Mussina:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=581 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>2000</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>65</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>97</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.401</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>30.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1,612,819</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1999</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>77</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>85</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.475</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>26.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1,825,277</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1998</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>75</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>87</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.463</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>31.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1,715,702</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1997</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>68</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>94</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.420</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>33.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1,490,638</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1996</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>67</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>95</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.414</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>29.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1,801,677</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1995</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>69</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>75</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.479</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>21.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>2,043,598</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1994</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>54</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>61</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.470</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>20.5</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>2,290,971</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1993</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>97</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>65</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.599</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>-</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>3,137,674</TD></TR><TR><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1992</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=left> Philadelphia Phillies</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>National League</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>70</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>92</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>.432</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>26.0</TD><TD class=textSm noWrap align=middle>1,927,448</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Sully 03-25-2009 10:06 AM
I always wondered who was a bigger publicity hound.

Curt Schilling or Jeremy Roenick.

Amnorix 03-25-2009 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ (Post 5608922)
Yeah, ok.....but as an Orioles fan it sure felt like it....still does. :(

The O's never should have dealt Schilling, but if I had to pick between him and Mussina I'd take Mussina.
Also....right, because you were in the AL East. One year you were 4 games below .500, yet in 4th in teh 5 team AL East, and we were all speedbumps for the ridiculous Yankees. You were 35 games out of first.

1998


<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>
East DivisionTeam W L WL% GBNewYorkY NYY 114 48 .704 -- BostonRS BOS 92 70 .568 22.0Toronto TOR 88 74 .543 26.0Bltmore BAL 79 83 .488 35.0TampaBay TBD 63 99 .389 51.0</PRE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P>

teedubya 03-25-2009 10:12 AM
Yes.

because of:::

3116 strikeouts (15th all time)
11-2 record in playoffs with a 2.23 ERA in 19 starts
3 World Series rings
20 game winner 3 times
The Bloody Sock!
An ungodly K/BB ratio.

RJ 03-25-2009 10:13 AM
[QUOTE=Amnorix;5608937]For an entire career, or for Game 7 of a World Series?


For the career, Mussina.

For the game 7 I'd say it's a tossup between the younger Mussina and the older Schilling. Schill was certainly the more dominant pitcher in terms of being a power arm but Mussina always had such beautiful control. Maybe not Maddux type control, but still excellent.

On a side note....

Worst Orioles trade ever.......Schilling, Pete Harnisch and Steve Finley for Glenn Davis. I'm still pissed.

Pioli Zombie 03-25-2009 04:28 PM
Yes. And I'm biased. He and Ortiz changed everything in Boston.
Schillings career in baseball is much like Warners in the NFL and they both are HOFers
Posted via Mobile Device

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ (Post 5608855)
No way.

Schilling just doesn't have the stats, for most of his career he was a good but not great pitcher. I like the guy, but he's no HOF'er.
Really?

Wins--216 Tied for 80th all-time
ERA-3.46 Would be 11th among current active players if not retired
Win%-.596. Tied for 119th all-time with Herb Pennock, Ed Lopat and Warren Spahn
WHIP-1.1374 45th all-time
BB/9- 1.962 79th all-time
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time
Adjusted ERA+- 127 Tied 43rd all-time

Schilling's post-season numbers are where he leaves his mark on the game.

11-2, 2.23 ERA, K/BB 120/25, WHIP 0.97

Schilling has the best K/BB ratio of all time among guys with a minimum of 1,000 IP / 100 decisions.

Only Blyleven has retired with more strikeouts and has not made into the HoF.

kcfanXIII 03-25-2009 04:35 PM
my two best schiling memories:

1. who could forget the bloody sock?
2. being a part of the team that knocked the yankees off in the 2001 world series.

based on these two memories, yes.

Jethopper 03-25-2009 04:48 PM
A pitcher with no sy youngs = A pitcher with no entry into the hall of fame (9 times out of 10).

wild1 03-25-2009 04:51 PM
He doesn't really have the numbers, and I agree with the good but not great argument about his career as measured by his peers. But the 3 rings will get him a lot of mileage, and it's certainly debatable whether those teams would have won the rings without him.

If he gets in, it's a later ballot... in my opinion

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jethopper (Post 5610294)
A pitcher with no sy youngs = A pitcher with no entry into the hall of fame (9 times out of 10).
WTF is a "sy young"?

Nolan Ryan has zero Cy Young's.

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 04:54 PM
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time

No doubt he gets in.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-25-2009 04:56 PM
It's close, but no.

Good big game pitcher, elite attention whore, but not a HOF caliber arm.

wild1 03-25-2009 04:56 PM
3000 strikeouts is his case, really, outside the world series

If this guy had played for Milwaukee and Texas, no way would this conversation be happening.

Katipan 03-25-2009 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild1 (Post 5610302)
He doesn't really have the numbers, and I agree with the good but not great argument about his career as measured by his peers. But the 3 rings will get him a lot of mileage, and it's certainly debatable whether those teams would have won the rings without him.

If he gets in, it's a later ballot... in my opinion
Arizona certainly rode it's two horses hard in 01. Randy never got us to a World Series with his Cy Youngs. Had no problem doing it with his Curt Schilling.

Miles 03-25-2009 05:07 PM
He is pretty close with his postseason performances, his first two seasons with ARI and first season with BOS, but his win/loss record will ultimately keep him out.

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles (Post 5610337)
He is pretty close with his postseason performances, his first two seasons with ARI and first season with BOS, but his win/loss record will ultimately keep him out.
IMO win/loss stats is a piss poor measurement. Can the pitcher control what his team does in the field or at the dish?

Jethopper 03-25-2009 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610308)
WTF is a "sy young"?

Nolan Ryan has zero Cy Young's.
Hence the 9 out of 10.

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jethopper (Post 5610378)
Hence the 9 out of 10.
he finished second in Cy Young voting three times I dont see that holding him back

Miles 03-25-2009 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610356)
IMO win/loss stats is a piss poor measurement. Can the pitcher control what his team does in the field or at the dish?
Yeah I agree that its a shitty measurement but one that sportswriters seem to constantly bring up when evaluating a player.

kcxiv 03-25-2009 05:37 PM
If you count his post season play then absolutely. I lvoed watching hiim pitch in his prime, he was a bad ass. He definately deserves to be in there. If you needed someone to pitch in a big game, there wasnt many better then him for that kind of pressure.

While he only has a little over 200 wins, he was fairly consistant. I hope he makes it to Cooperstown, he deserves it.

Tiger's Fan 03-25-2009 05:42 PM
No way. He always ran his mouth about the roids, while posting better numbers once he got past the age of 30. Besides not being remotely close numbers wise, I bet he was a roided up hypocrite.

kcxiv 03-25-2009 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=Buster Hymen;5610425]No way. He always ran his mouth about the roids, while posting better numbers once he got past the age of 30. Besides not being remotely close numbers wise, I bet he was a roided up hypocrite.[/Qoute] I seriously doubt he roided up. He lost his fast ball a few years back. He had to adjust his pitching style and he still had good years.

Say what you want about Curt, Yes he's is outspoken and sometimes should just shut up, but he's a straight shooter. Plus he's a video gamer as well. He's ok in my book. lol

keg in kc 03-25-2009 06:04 PM
He's a big gamer, so that gets him in in my book.

And when I say gamer, I don't mean baseball. He's big into MMOs.

RJ 03-25-2009 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610253)
Really?

Wins--216 Tied for 80th all-time
ERA-3.46 Would be 11th among current active players if not retired
Win%-.596. Tied for 119th all-time with Herb Pennock, Ed Lopat and Warren Spahn
WHIP-1.1374 45th all-time
BB/9- 1.962 79th all-time
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time
Adjusted ERA+- 127 Tied 43rd all-time

Schilling's post-season numbers are where he leaves his mark on the game.

11-2, 2.23 ERA, K/BB 120/25, WHIP 0.97



Schilling has the best K/BB ratio of all time among guys with a minimum of 1,000 IP / 100 decisions.

Only Blyleven has retired with more strikeouts and has not made into the HoF.



Like I said, he doesn't have the stats.

But he'll get in, the media loves him.

RJ 03-25-2009 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610311)
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time

No doubt he gets in.


Is Jim Thome a HOF'er?

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ (Post 5610714)
Is Jim Thome a HOF'er?
I don’t think so, nor do I think they are even close in their respective categories either.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-25-2009 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610748)
I don’t think so, nor do I think they are even close in their respective categories either.
Thome is 14th in career homers, Schilling is 15th in strikeouts and 80th in wins.

SAUTO 03-25-2009 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5610761)
Thome is 14th in career homers, Schilling is 15th in strikeouts and 80th in wins.
schill will get hurt by the win total. IMO and yes blyleven should get in 1st

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5610761)
Thome is 14th in career homers, Schilling is 15th in strikeouts and 80th in wins.
Thome is 230th in all-time career hits.

Third on the all-time strikeout list.

A career .229 post season batting average.

I dont see the comparison.

MIAdragon 03-25-2009 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 5610771)
schill will get hurt by the win total. IMO and yes Blyleven should get in 1st
Blyleven will get in, if he wasn’t such a dickbag he would already be in.

Simply Red 03-25-2009 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610311)
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time

No doubt he gets in.

yeah, no question, he was always tough to hit, he's a winner, imb.

MahiMike 03-25-2009 08:08 PM
Of course. Not even a debate.

SAUTO 03-25-2009 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610790)
Blyleven will get in, if he wasn’t such a dickbag he would already be in.
i agree, but that shouldnt matter IMO

RJ 03-25-2009 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon (Post 5610748)
I don’t think so, nor do I think they are even close in their respective categories either.


Comparing the two I'd give the edge to Schilling, but not by too much.

Thome is to HR's as Schilling is to K's, and Thome will move up the list this season. Thome also has always been an OBP monster. His postseason avg sucks but his HR's and RBI are strong.

Neither, IMO, are HOF worthy, but they've both been very good players.

And both will probably go in.

Braincase 03-25-2009 08:42 PM
If you were to take away all of Roger Clemens' Cy Youngs and give 'em to a pitcher that wasn't tainted by reports of steroid use, how many of them would go to Schill? That, and he's started a company to create his own online role-playing game.

I'd vote him and his sock in.

RJ 03-25-2009 09:28 PM
Came across this tonight.

Interesting piece about a great player who never made the HOF. The basic idea is that, for recognition purposes, it's better to be great at a couple of things than good at many things.

You'd need a few minutes to read it.


http://baseballanalysts.com/archives...time_ago_1.php


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