Teicher: Offense is the Chiefs' biggest problem
 

I went to the Chiefs’ first full offseason practice wondering more about their defense, but I left with more questions about the offense.

Let’s start with the offensive line: Very thin without Brian Waters there. They’ve got two starters who are over 30 — Damion McIntosh is 32, Mike Goff is 33 — and both those guys had better hold up or the Chiefs might be in some trouble. Very thin as far as depth; very few proven experienced guys as backups.

The receiving group without Tony Gonzalez: I’m wondering, like everybody else, how that’s going to all play out. Dwayne Bowe dropped some balls and made some nice catches also, but he looked a lot like the Dwayne Bowe we saw last year. The Chiefs really need him to be more consistent because you’ve got Mark Bradley and Bobby Engram behind him. Engram is 36. Not a lot of depth there, either.

The running game with Larry Johnson: You’ve heard me say before the Chiefs need Johnson. He’s their running game. I didn’t really see a guy who’s capable of handling the every-down load like Johnson is. They used Jamaal Charles like they did last year as a third-down back.

Matt Cassel didn’t have one of his better days, but he’s the least of the Chiefs’ concerns right now. It was a windy day; I’ve seen him throw indoors since joining the Chiefs at an earlier minicamp, and there’s no problem with Matt Cassel.

Chan Gailey: I have a lot of respect for him. He did a great job turning the offense around last year after a rotten start and all the quarterback problems. But he’s going to have to earn his money again this year, because there are a lot of issues with the Chiefs offensively.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1206906.html


Not sure if this is a repost or not, but very interesting considering our defense was 2nd worst in the league last year. Your thoughts?

Tiecher is probably a dumb****. If the QB position is improved, and the OL can provide as much pass protection as they did for Thiggy in the latter half of the year, than that should offset Tony being gone.

It is very likely that the offense will not be good next year, but the level of SUCK the Defense is coming off of is just unbelievable. It's got a lot further to go before it can be even servicable than does the offense.

The is the extended Rotoworld remix of that song:

Bastards.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/fea...rticleid=32761


Misplaced Optimism in K.C.?

Chiefs beat writer Adam Teicher touched on his offensive concerns this morning, a sentiment with which I happen to fully agree. Despite the feel-good additions of GM Scott Pioli, coach Todd Haley, and nominal franchise quarterback Matt Cassel, expectations for the Chiefs offense this season are far too optimistic.

Let's break this down position-by-position:


Quarterback: Matt Cassel led the NFL in sacks taken last season while the Pats receivers led the league in yards after the catch. With the major downgrade in both receiving talent and offensive line security, Cassel is fighting an uphill battle in proving that last year's production was not simply the product of the Patriots' system. His backup, Tyler Thigpen, was an inaccurate turnover machine in a lost season last year. He has no future under center and must be limited to a shotgun spread offense.

Running Back: Knucklehead Larry Johnson turns 30 during the season and has missed 12 games over the past two years. His running, receiving and blocking abilities have fallen off a cliff since his 2005-2006 career seasons. Backup Jamaal Charles is not capable of handling every down duties, and the rest of depth chart is nothing more than roster fodder.

Wide Receiver: Though he's been inconsistent in his young career, Dwayne Bowe is a dominant talent who rivals Steve Smith and Calvin Johnson for the ability to catch the ball in traffic (other-worldly Larry Fitzgerald obviously excluded). After Bowe, though, we're into finger-crossing territory. Mark Bradley may have potential, but he's been as injury-prone as any wide receiver in the league since being drafted in the second round five years ago. Slot receiver Bobby Engram, 36 and going downhill fast, has played just one full season in five years. As there's zero depth beyond the top three receivers, a Bowe injury has the potential to sink the passing game.

Tight End: Tony Gonzalez is taking a two-year average of 98 catches and 1,115 yards to Atlanta, leaving the Chiefs with a black hole at the position. Brad Cottom recorded just 21 receptions in his college career and figures to be used as a blocking specialist in Haley's offense. His four pedestrian backups have a total of 25 receptions in eight seasons.

Offensive Line: Still holding out for a trade, Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters isn't participating in OTAs. Last year's first-rounder Branden Albert has anchor potential on the left side, but right tackle Damion McIntosh, right guard Mike Goff, and center Rudy Niswanger will struggle to keep the ship afloat. And, again, there's no insurance in reserve, much less the talent to push three ineffective starters.

The masterminds imported to run the operation this offseason have engendered high expectations in Kansas City, but skepticism is advised for fantasy leaguers in 2009. The Chiefs may be battling the Browns and Raiders for the No. 1 pick in next year's draft.

Thigpen didn't get good protection. Thigpen alone lowered our sack total with his athleticism.

Why is McIntosh still on this team????

Other Chief news from rotoworld today:

Jamaal Charles-RB-Chiefs
The new Chiefs coaching staff has been using Jamaal Charles as a third-down back at minicamps.
Coach Todd Haley could employ Charles like he did J.J. Arrington in Arizona last year, although Charles should finish with more touches. Larry Johnson will only be a two-down back. Charles will be an excellent L.J. handcuff pick.

Brad Cottam-TE-Chiefs
New Chiefs starting TE Brad Cottam acknowledged that he doesn't expect to catch many passes in new coach Todd Haley's offense.
Haley rarely threw to tight ends in Arizona, too. "I was brought here...to be more of a blocker," Cottam said. He started seven games in two-TE sets and caught seven passes as a rookie. Don't expect more than 20 grabs this year.

And why again, in a deep offensive line draft, this position was not addressed is beyond me.

gotta get waters on board.

thigpen was a turnover machine last year????

Thigpen: 12 INT, 2 Fumbles Lost

Cassel: 11 INT, 4 Fumbles Lost


Cassel is clearly better, but to say Thigpen was a turnover machine is a gross overstatement. (minus the ATL and MIA games, of course!)

If KC can finish in the top 20 in either offense or defense that would be considered an excellent year for that side of the ball.

Yep, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cassel get sacked alot more this year. I mean hopefully the scheme and coaching will keep him upright but Thigpen's legs helped a ton last year.

Yeah, but Cassel's pretty mobile, too. Not that we really want to see our QB running all over the place.

what is really scary is that with the lineup we had at the mini camp that McIntosh is arguable our 2nd best lineman maybe 3rd behind Goff. But Goff is not great either.

wow... that sounds terrible. they gave Bowe more credit than he was due as well. He's inconsistent and drops too many balls.

I agree with this. But I don't see it without waters. our o-line will just be too thin.

people keep talking about their concern with sacks and the o-line. the biggest concern is that we will have no running game bc our o-line sucks especially without waters. if you have no running game and your offense is one dimensional, it's going to be a long rough season.

Agreed, but i think they are a different type of mobile. Thigpen is the kinda of mobile that you could almost make him a wide receiver. Cassel is pretty tough though, i've seen him take some hits that would put Brodie Croyle into a coma.

Explains the career-long 65 and 63-yard runs.

Cassel played in more games, took more snaps, threw higher-risk passes.

Not really. If we can protect that pass enough to become a pass first team then our running game can be halfway decent. I think that is exactly what Haley will try to do too. Pass,Pass,Pass until the Defense backs the hell up, then run some draws and stretch plays using a 3rd down back like Jamaal Charles.

Cassel had a better line and better receivers.

I'm not advocating Thigpen at all, just pointing out that he's not any more turnover prone than Cassel.

I dunno about that, Cassel threw a ton of short passes, a shit ton. The patriots running game helped Cassel alot too. The pats ran the ball 130 times more than us.

We will be better next year, both offensively and defensively. Because we couldn't get worse. And there are the Broncos and Raiders in our division. Both seem to have taken a, um, step down in terms of cohesiveness in this off-season. Plus a Norv Turner coached team.

Sure the o-line, at least on paper, sucks. But keep in mind, this o-line, up until last season had minimal coaching, bad quarterback play, a reliance on a tight end as the primary offensive target and, above and beyond all things, Herm. Gailey helped a lot last season, but still was shackled by inconsistency at quarterback, hurt Larry, checkdowns to Tony all season, a qb who was a cast of of the Vikings practice squad, etc.

Holding Cottam in to help block will be a major help to the offensive line. Tony was a receiving stud, but he'd ole block more than LJ. Properly using a fullback and having a tight end stick around and actually block someone will be a bigger boon to the Chiefs offensive line than plugging in some free agent. As well, having a quarterback who can actually throw a spiral will help tremendously.

They will be okay.

Cassel took roughly 100 more snaps than Thigpen (passing plays) and had one more turnover.

If Thigpen played in the same offense as Cassel, and threw the same number of passes, he'd have more turnovers. Thigpen's inaccuracy means he'd waste opportunities even if Welker and Moss got open.

I like how Teicher suggests that he's not worried about Cassel's shaky performance(s) in the wind because he's "seen him throw indoors." Might be a valid reason if we played 8 games in a dome.

News flash, Arrowhead is a windy stadium.

ROFL. All I could think about were thigpen's rainbow-duck longball passes that were 15 yards short.

Mad me laugh.

Carry on.
Posted via Mobile Device

Cassel's Int% was 2.1, comparied to Thigpen's 2.9. Cassel also had 73 rushing attempts and 47 sacks with 7 fumbles, compared to Thigpen's 62 attempts and 26 sacks with 6 fumbles.

On a per-play basis, Thigpen was definitely more turnover prone than was Cassel. How much that difference holds up now that Cassel isn't in New England is one of the keys to the Kansas City season.

Cassel attempted 32.25 passes per game with 0.9375 turnovers/game.

Thigpen attempted 30 passes per game with an even 1 turnover/game.

In turnovers/pass attempt per game, you can't really get much similar.

That's a terrible statistic to use.

Cassel played in more games. Hello?

Um, yeah. That's my point. That's why I'm dividing by the number of games played.

You shouldn't divide.

If Thigpen played the same number of games as Cassel, he'd turn it over more.

End of story.

Tell me Claythan, do you think the Chief's offense is becoming too...commerical?

I read that.

Yes, I said Thigpen turns it over more. I'm not denying that. My point is that they really aren't that dissimilar in turnover ratio, so to call Thigpen any more turnover prone than Cassel is inaccurate.

Two words: PER GAME

Way to miss the point.

:shake:

It's far too early to determine whether or not the offense is going to be effective. Teicher should know that. It's not even June, bug.

I do think, however, that we're going to miss #88 a lot more than some peeps realize. We've relied on that guy for clutch catches, first downs, and drawing double teams for a whole lot of years. It's going to be like a black hole in the Chiefs passing game. Or, for the more politically correct among us, a hole of indeterminate color.

FAX

the last time we lost one of our best players (Jared Allen) the defense went from 13th to 31st.

If Gonzo and Waters are gone, I would expect a similar drop, except we don't have as far to fall this time.

No, you have missed the point.

The statistics bear out that if Thigpen and Cassel threw an equal number of passes, over the course of a season, Thigpen would turn the ball over more.

Sure.

0.0625 more turnovers per game, according to the very small sample size.

and very similar supporting staffs! ROFL

I think I understand what you're saying, Mr. MoreLemonPledge. You just need to expand the numbers in order to reach a statistically significant sample.

For example, assuming that both Cassel and Thigpen were to each throw a total of 7,433 passes of between 5 and 50 yards, Cassel would be intercepted 74 times, while Thigpen would be intercepted 4,021 times, run out of bounds 23 times, call timeout 62 times, attempt to punt the football 511 times, and, on 980 occasions, heave the rock left-handed out of the back of the enemy end zone. Correct?

FAX

He played outside in New England. I think he'll be fine. I don't think Arrowhead is that windy, either.

When the Chiefs start stopping the run, I will start worrying about the offense.

I think you're my favorite.

When Thigpen has a chance to run the Patriots offense you will be able to compare them more fairly.

Ha that article basically says what I said after the draft, they've put Matt Cassel in a position to fail.

I think that's exactly what they intended.

Hey, we inherited a team with holes at nearly every single position! We must make sure that we address them all in one draft, or we've failed!

Didn't the pre-game handshake once break Croyle's arm?

If you decide you're getting your QB now, you are obligated as a franchise to put him in a good position.

You don't go get a QB then spend all your money and picks on defense, or that QB will fail.

It's why what the Lions did was stupid, they didn't put Stafford in a good spot either with their moves.

If you decide Cassel is your franchise guy you are obligated to put him in a situation that is atleast good enough for him to not get his brains beat in and shit on himself.

I think they just saw a good opportunity to get their QB. Either the draft didn't fall so that they could get the O-Linemen they wanted or they think they can work with what they have. I don't necessarily think they've set Cassel up for failure.

Did you miss the rotoworld post that essentially says the Chiefs have 2 players worth a shit on offense?

Continuing your rampage against Larry Johnson?

So what's the proper solution? Draft guys who won't start this year (if ever), or get a bunch of high priced overrated veterans?

These things take time. I don't think they want Cassel to fail, but there's the fact that our defense was absolutely atrocious that needs to be addressed as well.

This is what I posted right after the draft...

Watch I will now provide a take as to why I think this draft creates issues that has nothing to do with Scott Pioli.

Everyone knows I like Mark Sanchez right...but when you decide you are going to trade for Matt Cassel and essentially say this is our guy, you don't set him up to fail.

When the Chiefs decided they would trade Tony Gonzalez, then go into the draft which was very deep at OL and WR and proceed to draft a bunch of defensive players in what is considered a weak defensive year. This is called being married to a defensive scheme and trying to shoehorn it in no matter what.

If you want to say Tyson Jackson was the right pick you can, but after that they really should have focused on the deep OL and WR positions in the draft. Leaving Matt Cassel with 1 dependable receiver and no upgrades on the Oline is just asking for him to look bad and get his brains beat in.

That is how you ruin a player, when you take a young guy and decide he is your franchise you do things to put him in a position to succeed not fail. What the Chiefs did this weekend was not fair to Matt Cassel.

Sure it does but when I'm a 2 win team that makes a move for a QB, I'm more concerned with him at that time. A defense can be rebuilt quickly, you ruin a QB, you signed your release.

He's a 30 year old running back with the mentality of a 5 year old.

He's worth a shit on offense despite all of that.

Please recognize it.

When he's not hurt.

He may be worth a shit, but he's certainly not worth his contract.

The only way he's worth a shit is if the O-Line can create holes for him, and he then runs with the same physical style he ran with 3 years ago.

Otherwise he's ****ing useless.

In comparison to what?

If you did a listing of RB's in the league where's he coming in at? 20th? I'm not gonna spooge myself over an aging RB that still doesn't pick up blitzes that is watching nearly every RB in the league pass him on the good scale.

We're at a point now where we're talking about a 30 year old RB, a 36 year old WR, a WR who literally can not stay healthy...and then Bowe who I like but he's far from Mr. Reliable right now as if they can get the job done.

Thanks for introducing meaningless issues.

I really wish Detroit would have taken Jason Smith with the 1st pick and traded their 20, 33, and 137 for our #3 pick and taken Stafford.

They would be better off and so would we.

The Lions would have been fine currently if they would have made proper picks, they could have come out of this draft with Stafford, Oher, Britton and Jared Cook.

Sounds like a nice start for your young franchise QB, but no that's to logical.

I don't know, man. Where do you list Tomlinson? That mother****er couldn't average 4 YPC last year. Neither could Willie Parker, Matt Forte, Ryan Grant, Marion Barber, Willis McGahee, Fred Taylor or Joseph Addai.

And yet something tells me you would have traded LJ for ANY of those running backs after the 2007 season.

You'll never, ever admit you're wrong about Larry Johnson. He bounced back in a way almost no one expected last year. But yeah, he's not worth a shit. Not at ALL.

I still think it would have been nice for them to have Smith and Stafford. We could have taken their current LT Backus in on the trade instead of the late pick. He could have started at guard immediately.

I think that would have been great for the Chiefs to have #20, #33 and Backus for the #3 pick.

But I agree that they should have done more for the offense. Maybe they are thinking that they can late Culpepper get killed this year and bring in another LT next year when Stafford starts. That is if they wait to start him.

Take away the Denver game (198 yds), the Atlanta game (121 yds because of a big run), and maybe even the Miami game (108 yds). Then what do you have?

He was wildly inconsistent and hurt last year. He's not great.

They probably didn't wanna pay that kinda money, either way they were still in great position to get their QB and fix their line and they didn't do it, that's why they're the Lions.

So you are going to compare him to a bunch of guys who had bad years? To show you how much faith the Colts have in Addai they used their 1st pick on another RB.

That's the difference in teams, we keep running our declining pile out there, they replace him.

Matt Forte had an excellent year. So did a handful of those other guys.

None of them averaged 4.5 YPC.

I'm guessing Larry is REALLY going to make you eat crow this year. Unless he gets hurt. Which of course, is unlikely, because he's as durable as they come. Even after the 400 carry gauntlet.

Because YPC is the only thing that matters.

Now I'm starting to wonder if you're even being serious.

I'd say it's pretty important in judging a running back.

If LJ had averaged 3.8 YPC like LT I'm sure Mecca would be screaming at the top of his lungs about how washed up LJ is.

I'm going to guess they all carried significantly more than he did since Johnson missed games and got to play in an where he carried less, so a couple of big runs skew his average..

Lets not bring up the 2nd halves of games when running would have been good and he had 1 yard carries.

Tomlinson is ****ing old, he has a ton of wear on his body, he's declining just the same.

Yes, damn Larry for breaking off those big runs.

Stupid mother****er! Stop skewing your average!

What are you going to say when LJ puts up 1300 yards this year?

So is consistency, right? Blocking? Receiving?

I remember the last time you were this sure he would do something...he proceeded to get injured.

Honest question which teams do we have a better RB situation than, start listing them off. This Johnson/Charles backfield is not high among the league RB tandems.

Who cares? You were sure he was gonna limp his way around the football field last season and he did the exact opposite.

I think it's ready to explode, personally. Charles is the perfect complement to LJ.

Name off the teams the Chiefs have a better RB situation than...I'll start, Seattle.

I think this is exactly what is going to happen. I sincerely doubt Stafford sees the field this year. Culpepper reported to mini-camp in the best shape of his career and looks good for another year or two while the Lions work the kinks out on both sides of the ball and let Stafford learn about the NFL defenses without getting killed in the process.

I also think that Detroit wasn't going to take a double top three payday hit.

I agree with Mecca that Oher would have been a wonderful choice for them, but I think that Pettigrew gives them a solid blocker and an immediate safety valve for the offense. He'll help Smith and Johnson in opening up the offense from day one. He's going to be a good player and should contribute at a high level immediately.