Alternate Reality Game 3: Starting From Scratch (ROSTERS only)
 

Ok guys, I'll put a link to this in the main thread... maybe RM or someone can update the header to show this link.

I think there was interest in using a different thread to post full rosters and commentary, so that's what we can use this thread for ... no trade info or picks, just post your rosters as they are updated and any commentary that you care to provide.

Others are more than welcome to post their feedback (good, bad and ugly).

Have fun.

The MAIN DRAFTING THREAD IS --> http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=204588

Ok, here is the roster for the "Butte-Holes"... nice average age for both sides of the ball. Thanks to trades, I got rid of my rookie picks and will load up accordingly on veterans. I have 26 players through 21 rounds so far and I think there's great balance.

I had to trade away Cassel... I took this team over near round 3 or 4 and Cassel was a R2 pick, way too high for my liking. I've traded away my rookie picks in order to load up on 1-2 year veterans with just as much or more upside.

Anyway, my main philosophy so far has been to treat this like a very complex dynasty fantasy football draft. The trick has been when to pull the trigger on OL and depth. I think I've done pretty good so far.

<st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Crested Butte-Holes</st1></st1:city> (26)<o></o>

QB
Matt Schaub, QB (28)
Trent Edwards, QB<o></o> (25)
WR/TE
Anquan Boldin, WR<o></o> (28)
TJ Houshmandzadeh, WR<o></o> (31)
Roy Williams, WR<o></o> (27)
Greg Olsen, TE<o></o> (24)
RB
Peyton Hillis, FB<o></o> (23)
Brandon Jacobs, RB<o></o> (27)
Kevin Smith, RB<o></o> (22)
*(also includes Norwood, listed primarily as the KR)
OL
Marcus McNeil, LT<o></o> (25)
<st1><st1>Robert</st1> <st1>Gallery</st1></st1>, LG<o></o> (28)
Olin Kreutz, C<o></o> (32)
Chris Kuper, RG (26)
ST
Mason Crosby, K (24)
Jerious Norwood*, KR/RB (25)
<o></o>
Offense/ST Avg Age = 26.3 years

DL
Julius Peppers, DE/OLB<o></o> (29)
Ray Edwards, LDE (24)
Kevin Williams, DT<o></o><o></o> (28)
Darryl Tapp, RDE (24)
LB
Kirk Morrison, ILB<o></o> (27)
Zach Diles, OLB/SLB (24)
Curtis Lofton, MLB<o></o> (23)
DB
Richard Marshall, CB<o></o> (24)
Charles Tillman, CB<o></o> (28)
Gibril Wilson, S<o></o> (27)
Roman Harper, S (26)

Defense Avg Age = 25.8 years

<<>>

Ok, so what do the other rosters look like... there are several great looking teams building up, but none that can escape the wrath and fury of the Butte-Holes!

The Tucson Tittie Twisters

QB Jay Cutler
QB Brady Quinn
RB Steven Jackson
RB Marshawn Lynch
WR Calvin Johnson
WR Jerricho Cotchery
TE Jason Witten
TE Anthony Fasano
LT Duane Brown
LG Carl Nicks
C Jeff Faine
RG Deuce Lutui
RT Jordan Gross

LDE Cliff Avril
LDE Elvis Dumervil
NT Mike Patterson
UT Sedrick Ellis
RDE Gaines Adams
SLB DeMeco Ryans
MLB Lofa Tatupu
WLB Thomas Howard
CB1 Rashean Mathis
CB2 Leon Hall
CB3 Eric Wright
FS Reggie Nelson
SS Kenny Phillips

Los Angeles Purple Cobras:

Let's see

QB Matt Cassel
QB Brett favre

Rb Chris Johnson

Wr Nate Robinson
Wr Antonio Bryant

TE Dustin Keller

PK Rob Bironas

LT donald Penn
C jeff Saturday


Defense
DE john Henderson

OLB James Harrison
ILB ray Lewis
ILB bart Scott
OL terrel Suggs

RCB brandon Flowers
LCB dunta Robinson
FS antrelle rolle
SS brandon Merriweather

PR/KR josh cribbs

and latest addition DE Trevor Price

Atlantic City Hitmen

QB - Tony Romo
RB- Larry Johnson
RB - Brian Westbrook
FB - Jacob Hester
WR - Hines Ward
WR - Patrick Crayton
LT - Bryant McKinnie
LG - Rich Heubert
C - Dan Koppen
RG - Donald Thomas
RT - Willie Colon
TE - Marcedes Lewis
WR - Steve Breaston
WR - Donnie Avery

DE - Charles Grant
DT - Rocky Bernard
NT - Jamal Williams
DE - Dwight Freeney
OLB - Derrick Johnson
MLB - Antonio Pierce
OLB - Ben Leber
CB - DeAngelo Hall
SS - Troy Polamalu
FS - Erik Coleman
CB - Lito Sheppard


ROOKIE PICKS -

Rd. 1 - Matthew Stafford, QB

Twisters - very sound all around. As I've said over there, our teams mirror each well.

Cobras - I do like the defense.

Hitmen - again, nice defense and I like the QB/RBs... WR is good, but once Ward says "I'm done", there's a gap in production right now.

The Fort Wayne Dancers:

Offense
QB – Peyton Manning
RB – Felix Jones
RB – LenDale White
LT – Joe Staley
OG – Aaron Sears
OG – Mike Pollak
RT – Eric Winston
TE – Owen Daniels
WR – Steve Smith
WR – Michael Jenkins
WR – Lance Moore

Defense
CB – Marcus Trufant
CB – Nate Clements
DE – Patrick Kerney
DT – Albert Haynesworth
DT – Marcus Stroud
DE – Justin Tuck
DE/OLB – Vernon Gholston
ROLB – Lance Briggs
MLB – David Harris
LOLB/MLB – E.J. Henderson
FS – Oshiomogho Atogwe

Nice squad... the only concern really is RB, you don't have a true #1, but you have 2 guys that could get a lot of TDs, just few yards. I'm very hopeful that Felix stays healthy, he can do some amazing things in that offense and he should get you some production on returns if they use him in that manner this season.

There is a lot of upside with your #2-3 WRs... the only problem I have with them (again, this is the fantasy view) is the inconsistency, but I think they'll both do well this year.

Defensively, your DL is tight... I like the LBs and secondary as well.

Cheers. Yer cant disagree with any of this.. Felix staying healthy is something my team is going to have to rely on... Though I guess for the most part my team will be a defensive minded team..

Also i guess im sort of going with the i have Manning so teams will have to respect the pass and as a result hopefully get some nice yards on the ground..

Do you mean Nate Washington?

Wichita Ballbashers:

Offense
JoeFlacco, Matt Hasselbeck QB
AdrianPeterson,RB Willie Parker RB
Eddie Royal, WR
Santonio Holmes, WR
Mark Bradley, WR
Ryan Diem, LT
MarshallYanda,G Jamaal Jackson Center
StaceyAndrews,RT


Defense

Jerrod Mayo MLB
Kamerion Wimbley, OLB
Kawika Mitchell, LB
Antonio Cromartie, CB
Sheldon Brown, CB
Alex Brown, DE
Dusty Dvoracek, DT
BroderickBunkley,DT Quintin Mikell SS

Arrowhead... I think you said you were unhappy with your team, but I think you're in good shape.

Great balance at QB with solid upside in Flacco and a proven Hasselbeck with 1-2 solid years left in him, and he now has TJ Housh... great weapon.

RB - very solid!

WR - you have two great weapons and Royal as a return man is double bonus.

The OL is a work in progress and you have some great components on the defense too. Very nice.

http://j.photos.cx/team3bgray-d16.png

Burlington Blue Barracudas
Temple of Olmec Park - Burlington, VT

Offensive Backfield
QB Eli Manning
RB Steve Slaton
RB Chester Taylor

Receiving Corps
WR Larry Fitzgerald
WR Vincent Jackson
WR Mark Clayton
TE Visanthe Shiancoe

Offensive Line
LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson
LG Eric Steinbach
C Nick Hardwick
RG Chilo Rachal
RT Andre Smith
OT Vernon Carey

Defensive Line
RDE Richard Seymour
NT Casey Hampton
LDE Chris Canty
DE Igor Olshansky

Linebacking Corps
OLB Adalius Thomas
ILB Karlos Dansby
ILB Jon Beason
OLB Parys Haralson
ILB Pisa Tinoisamoa

Defensive Secondary
CB Cortland Finnegan
FS Nick Collins
SS Chinedum Ndukwe
CB Al Harris
CB/KR Terrence McGee
CB Tramon Williams

P.S. **** THE SILVER SNAKES

Steve Smith with an NFL-caliber quarterback is a genuinely terrifying prospect.

The Chattanooga Choo-Choos:

Offense:
QB: Ben Roethlisberger
QB: Kyle Orton
RB: Maurice Jones-Drew
RB: Pierre Thomas
RB: Ray Rice
WR: Roddy White
WR: Marques Colston
WR: Chris Henry
TE: Antonio Gates
TE: Heath Miller
LT: Jason Peters
LG: Travelle Wharton
C: Shaun O'Hara
RG: Shawn Andrews
RT: Jared Gaither

Defense:

CB: Nnamdi Asonugha
CB: Leodis McKelvin (Also PR/KR)
CB: Chris Gamble
FS: Aquib Talib
SS: Bob Sanders
MLB: Stewart Bradley
OLB: A.J. Hawk
OLB: Ernie Sims
OLB/DE: Manny Lawson
DE: Trent Cole
DE: Derrick Harvey
DE: Andre Carter
DT: Adam Carriker
DT: Ty Warren
DT: Kelly Gregg

Damn sorry typo Nate washington


Thanks mile but I'm building the O now so it's a work in progress

Your defense is ****ing stout man. If I had to choose....I would probably put you at #1 right now just based on potential.

I like the Hawk/Sims/Lawson trio...

Not a Stewart Bradley fan? He's a 25 year old All-Pro middle linebacker for the Eagles. I definitely have some flexibility with my LBs and rush ends.

Burlington Blue Barracudas look the best so far.

HB - Clinton Portis (Leon Washington as backup)
FB - TBD
QB - Kurt Warner
WR1 - Santana Moss
WR2 - Laveranues Coles
WR3 - Davone Bess
TE - Chris Cooley
LT - Jake Long
LG - Kris Dielman
C - TBD
RG - Chris Snee
RT - Jammal Brown
K - Stephen Gostkowski
P - TBD
KR/PR - Leon Washington (Davone Bess as backup)
FS - Jarrad Page
SS - Adrian Wilson
CB1 - Champ Bailey
CB2 - Darrelle Revis
OLB1 - Keith Rivers
OLB2 - TBD
MLB - Nick Barnett
DE - Mario Williams
DE - Jared Allen
DT - Tommie Harris
DT - Brandon Mebane

I'm sorry no offense but all around D I feel mine is the best now the O is a work in progress.

well, then you would be wrong.

You're stoned. Pound for pound, the Butte-Holes are about as good as it gets right now... my depth on offense (QB, RB, WR) and secondary are better than 3B, by far.

Keyword.

:D I can only tell it like it is... each team has holes to fill still, but the only real weak link so far on my team is QB and it's only because Schaub has injury concerns and Edwards hasn't broken out to that next level yet. Both have huge upside this year... break 'em down position by position and I like my chances very much so far.

That's funny, I was just going to challenge you to put our two teams side by side and compare position by position and see where you thought you were better at.

I'm heading into a meeting in a few minutes, but I'll give some quick feedback for ya' Doomy...

QBs - Ben is obviously better of the 4 QBs and Kyle has nice upside. A healthy Schaub is = to Ben at the very least. Overall, I think our QBs are a push at this point, but I will give you a 'slight' edge.

RBs - Hands down, I've got you beat so far. Shouldn't be any questions about that one.

WR/TEs - White and Colston with Gates are greatness, Henry... not so much. Boldin, Housh, Roy and Olsen are all solid. Housh and Roy are now the #1 options for their teams (compared to 2008). This category is very even right now and I'd have to say it's a push at worst, but Roy over Henry would give me the nod I think.

Hard for me at least to truly judge the OL and DL for both teams so far, both show lots of promise with great players.

LBs - I'll give you the edge.

DBs - You have the name "Nnamdi" that many will see and say "winner", but again - I think it's a push so far as my 4 are all very solid as well and I think as a group, I'll take my guys over what you have put together.

Overall - we're very very similar... will be interesting to see what happens in the final dozen rounds.

<<>>
Offense:
QB: Ben Roethlisberger
QB: Kyle Orton

RB: Maurice Jones-Drew
RB: Pierre Thomas

WR: Roddy White
WR: Marques Colston
WR: Chris Henry
TE: Antonio Gates

LT: Jason Peters
LG: Travelle Wharton
C: Shaun O'Hara
RG: Shawn Andrews
RT: Jared Gaither

Defense:

CB: Nnamdi Asonugha
CB: Leodis McKelvin (Also PR/KR)
CB: Chris Gamble
FS: Aquib Talib
SS: Bob Sanders

MLB: Stewart Bradley
OLB: A.J. Hawk
OLB: Ernie Sims
OLB/DE: Manny Lawson

DE: Trent Cole
DE: Derrick Harvey
DE: Andre Carter
DT: Adam Carriker
DT: Ty Warren
DT: Kelly Gregg

<<<>>>
<st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Crested Butte-Holes</st1></st1:city> (26)<o></o>

QB
Matt Schaub, QB (28)
Trent Edwards, QB<o></o> (25)
WR/TE
Anquan Boldin, WR<o></o> (28)
TJ Houshmandzadeh, WR<o></o> (31)
Roy Williams, WR<o></o> (27)
Greg Olsen, TE<o></o> (24)
RB
Peyton Hillis, FB<o></o> (23)
Brandon Jacobs, RB<o></o> (27)
Kevin Smith, RB<o></o> (22)
*(also includes Norwood, listed primarily as the KR)
OL
Marcus McNeil, LT<o></o> (25)
<st1><st1>Robert</st1> <st1>Gallery</st1></st1>, LG<o></o> (28)
Olin Kreutz, C<o></o> (32)
Chris Kuper, RG (26)
ST
Mason Crosby, K (24)
Jerious Norwood*, KR/RB (25)
<o></o>
Offense/ST Avg Age = 26.3 years

DL
Julius Peppers, DE/OLB<o></o> (29)
Ray Edwards, LDE (24)
Kevin Williams, DT<o></o><o></o> (28)
Darryl Tapp, RDE (24)
LB
Kirk Morrison, ILB<o></o> (27)
Zach Diles, OLB/SLB (24)
Curtis Lofton, MLB<o></o> (23)
DB
Richard Marshall, CB<o></o> (24)
Charles Tillman, CB<o></o> (28)
Gibril Wilson, S<o></o> (27)
Roman Harper, S (26)

Hmmm, I really don't see where you would have me beat at RB. MJD and Pierre Thomas are extremely solid options, and really are probably more solid than some combination or Jacobs and Smith.

And, I really don't see how you can call Roethlisberger and Schaub a push.

I guess this is why we'll have other people vote on this though. It is pretty hard to see things with an open mind when looking at your team.

I think it's a push if Schaub is healthy... with those weapons, he can be every bit as productive as Ben. Orton with his new team and Edwards now with TO, should be fairly equal.

2007 was Ben's best year, the other 3 seasons have been about the same as 2008... good, but not spectacular from a production stand point, which is how we have to judge them right?

In 2008 - Ben had 16 starts vs Matt's 11 starts:
Yards: Ben 3,301 / Matt 3,043
TDs: Ben 17 / Matt 15
INTs: Ben 15 / Matt 10

5 fewer games for Schaub and extremely similar stats. Again... if healthy, Schaub can be just as good or better.

I think MJD and Jacobs are very comparable as well... MJD is more of a dual threat while Jacobs is a pure run only kind of guy, but overall production (yards and TDs) is pretty equal.

Kevin Smith is the #1 guy in DET coming off a nice performance as is Thomas in NOS, but Smith has less threats right now to steal production, IMO. Add in Hillis at FB who will also see plenty of action at RB and the option of Norwood as a KR/backup RB... I think I definitely have you covered as of now.

Our teams are very even though ...

When the rosters are complete, I think I'll do a "season beginning poll", and ask the voters to rank each unit on the teams. Probably a version for the 2009 season and a version of "looking both now and to the future". It'll only be for show since the real decisions will come at the end of the season, but it'll give us some objective feedback.

I'm wrong? Doomy you are telling me your d is better?? Besides nt I beat you overall no way your o is better but my d is by far better than yours.

Dude....I'll go ahead and compare your defenses.

Defensive Line - The nod goes to Choo-Choos. Not only are his starters good....but he's got a ton of depth in pass rushers.

Linebackers - Honestly....I'll give the edge to the Cobras...only because he's got great LBs for a 3-4. But honestly dude.....you just grabbed the Ravens old LB corp...and added Harrison. Minus Suggs....you don't have too much youth. The Choo-Choos don't have a bunch of slackers either.

Defensive Backfield - Easily given to the Choo-Choos. Asomaugha (sp) and Gamble are two awesome starting CBs....and McKelvin is a great nickle (and kick/punt returner). Talib is a ballhawk at FS and Sanders is a punisher at SS. The Cobras have some great young safetys but your CBs are iffy. Flowers is good...but he has to prove it again and Robinson is good...but not great.

Ok I figured this would happen when all is said and done my d will be better. But you can have your opinion mile who I think has unbias opinion said I like that D. You guys are putting way too much value on youth in this thing and are missing solid older players for the potential of youth. I have a complete team I have the best kr now in the game arguablly one of the best kickers in the league. Everyone questions me trading for cassel but what if he is great. By the end of this it's gonna be hard to find a weakness.

Who on the d line besides Warren? Carricker? Young but what has he done, Carter?,


They all are better than pryce and henderson??


Heck I'm surprised u even gave me the LB core although u did take a pop shot at me again bout taking alot of ravens? Should I be blasted for this. I figure you also think it was a bad idea for the owner to take almost the whole Titan o line. It's a long way to go pest before you or doomy claim the championship.

Dude, calm down. You posted your roster for feedback, and made a claim that you have the best defense. That's all fine, that's your opinion. No one is "blasting" anyone.

IMO, my defense is much better than yours at nearly every position. Luckily, the other members on CP will be voting on this, so yours and mine opinions really don't matter all that much.

My team won't look good to the voters, but many of them (if any bother to vote) will vote purely on names, and I don't have the big name guys, just solid players, and one of the younger teams assembled.

yea i guess im just not that big of a Flacco fan, but i do think i like the rest of my team.

Dude...I said that he had the best team based on potential. And yeah I did blast the guy who took the entire Titan's o-line.

I think it's crazy doomy that you think your d is easily better than mine who is your pass rush? Lawson?? Carter?? Harvey?? And that's better than suggs Harrison pryce. I'm sorry man but you are dillusional.

CAT FIGHT!!!!

http://groundnotes.files.wordpress.c...catfight-5.jpg


I hope nobody takes any offense to the commentary... I think the comments and feedback are great and I think a few of us will take shots at each other because we're pretty sure the other guy can take it.

So, if anyone thinks "Dammit - that ahole just blasted my team" when reading my comments, please know that I'm not saying you're a fool for the team you've built. I'm just trying to have some fun.

I'm hoping that everyone is taking this approach.

If I'm comparing teams, yes I will do my best to make the argument for my squad, but I'll acknowledge defeat when appropriate.

Regarding the youth comment... I'm loading up with youth because I pulled a Ditka and traded my rookie picks. So, that's the course I chose to take.

I think you should definitely plug in the older veterans when you can, hell I won't pass on a guy (TJ Housh, Kreutz as examples) if they're in their 30s.

But, overall... I'm looking for the foundation to be 2-3 year veterans for the most part.

Voting - I do think that many will look at names and say "Damn, that dude has X Player... by default he wins". I get it and it's similar to Pro-Bowl voting, so while I think my collection of phenoms in the making is superior, I'm certainly not expecting to win any fan voting.

You know what....I'm not comparing anyone's teams again until this thing is finished. People getting butthurt over the stupidest shit.

Oh stop it... I think this is all about nothing. It's more sports debate. I think we just need to make sure we hold back on the "Man, are you kidding? Your team sucks..." and just focus on the "No, that team is better and here is why.."

We'll all be fine. C'mon, it's a bunch of dudes cyber-kicking each other in the groin about football...

And, that being said... my only real weak link right now is QB (thanks to injury) and OL (injury at LT and lack of bodies right now)... everywhere else (RB/WR/LB/DB)... I'm set and you guys are envious. I know.

ROFL

Just because you don't know who they are doesn't mean they aren't good.

Trent Cole, Andre Carter and Derrick Harvey can all rush the passer. Andre Carter could be VERY good this year now that he is playing on the same side as Albert Haynesworth and will be rushing like crazy. Ty Warren and Adam Carriker are athletic DTs who can get after the QB from the inside and Kelly Gregg is a big space eating run-stuffer. Plus, considering I have one of the best secondaries anyone could put together, that will help the pass rush since receivers won't be getting open easily. Any other questions?

Offense

QB Tom Brady
RB Frank Gore
RB Derrick Ward
WR Braylon Edwards
WR Kevin Walter
WR Devin Hester
LT Michael Roos
LG Todd Herremans
C
RG Jake Scott
RT David Stewart

Defense

DE Cullen Jenkins
NT Vince Wilfork
DE Corey Williams
OLB Osi Umenyiora
ILB James Farrior
ILB Barrett Ruud
OLB Calvin Pace
CB Terence Newman
CB Ellis Hobbs
FS Antoine Bethea
SS

Still... when you review the standings and look up... you'll be staring at the Butte-Holes.

ROFL

MY TEAM AM FIGHT

Yeah, everyone puts too much stock into youth. I agree, but calm down everyone. No one is finished with their team yet, and plus, we don't even vote, everyone else does. So don't take any offense... it's all trash talk (just like in real life) but over the internet, lol.

But as far as youth, who cares? They will be voting on this next upcoming year. So youth doesn't matter. And I'll have rookie drafts every year after this so I'm not concerned that I have 4 guys over 30 on my team right now (they are all pro bowlers) so I've got talent. I'm all about winning right now.

ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD shut up with all this best D stuff. My CBs specialize in press at the line and bumb and run coverage and I have Shawne Merriman and Demarcus Ware. You can't throw the ball on my defense. Period. And I'm not even finished yet. My O-line is by far the best run blocking line I've seen on here. My RG and RT alone weigh a combined 715+ lbs. I get 3rd and short no matter what.

Everyone just calm down and wait until this thing is over and the other voters start voting. (and get ready to applaud me for a miraculous turn around from the round 14 start I had with Hootie's crappy team :D )

Crappy team? You traded away some ****ing awesome players.

Want Cutler?

Please note that the Super-Manatees roster had not yet been presented when he made his comment.

No way.. you're looking into this whole youth and potential thing too much.

Jason Peters is bullshit. He gives up 11 sacks and goes to the pro bowl. I want players, not reputations.

Leodis McKelvin had a solid rookie year. Didn't start very many games. Too small to play press coverage. A "youth and potential" pick.

Nick Barnett is the biggest cry baby in the game of football. Overrated, and even Packers fans will admit it when they come post on our Bears board. Plus he was tackled and man handled by a 60 year old official. Again, I want players, not reputations (especially a rep for getting owned by an official)

Keith Rivers had great promise, but only played 6 games since he got his jaw broke by hines ward (a wide receiver) Sure he could be great, but again its another "youth and potential" pick. He's essentially a rookie, and playing on a shitty defense.

If these are all the awesome players I'm trading then yes, I will trade these awesome players for the likes of Shawne Merriman, Demarcus Ware, Luis Castillo, Tony Ugoh, etc...

For the record I'm not mad or offended, just my two cents versus yours pesty :D

And pm me about cutler if you want...

Actually, these are two of the finest players in the game today.

I stand by my word. It doesn't look like you have a QB?

again its all opinion.

I don't see how you could call a rookie that played 7 games one of the finest in the game today. He COULD be one of the finest in the game today, but certainly has not proven himself yet. If he goes to the pro bowl the next 2 years then I'll accept that statement.

Honestly I hate Barnett as I'm a Bears fan, but all the Packer fans I speak with seem to conceed that he is indeed overrated and a drama queen. But at least he has proven he can play (albeit not as well as urlacher or briggs :D )

What?


WHAT?!?!


My quarterback threw for almost 4,600 yards last season, 30 TDs to only 14 Ints, made the pro bowl with a 96.9 QB rating, and would have thrown the winning TD in the Super Bowl with only two minutes left if another QB hadn't thrown another winning TD in the Super Bowl with only 30 seconds left.

Going forward, yeah, he's going to retire some day, but heading into the 2009 season the Super-Manatees have one of the top three QBs in the league. And 2009 is the only season that counts right now in Bradenton.

According to u u have the best secondary but your LBs don't compare to mine if you want to get technical how are you gonna run on this d. And my pash rush will make my secondary even better. Because QBs won't have time in the pocket.


Now unlike u I can admit where my team lacks and that's O but I still have picks including the third pick in remainder draft. I'm not but hurt you just aren't being realistic when it comes to your d. Cole is good so is Carter and Harvey has tremendous potential. But my D has the reigning d MVP the future hall of famer and one of the most dangerous pass rushers in the game. I can give you compliments on your team. However you never gave my team any props thatswhy I say you are dellusional. No team is perfect. I do like the SS from the colts if he stays healthy.

Now can u say anything positive bout other peoples team??

WTF

If we are talking trash let's talk but please be realistic bout your teams everyone has weaknesses.

I am being realistic. I said that you have a great set of 3-4 LBs....but your CBs are iffy and your d-line isn't complete. Plus I gave you props on your FS and SS.

Youth can be over-rated, but not with this collection of phenoms in the making...

<st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Crested Butte-Holes</st1></st1:city> (26)<o></o>

QB
Matt Schaub, QB (28)
Trent Edwards, QB<o></o> (25)

The only true area with question marks and it's really dependent upon Schaub's ability to stay healthy, only starting in 11 games in each of the last 2 seasons. The offense has the weapons and Schaub has the talent to be on par with any QB you want to rank from #4-#10 overall in the NFL. Edwards is trending up and they've added TO at the right time for him, he's a solid backup.

WR/TE
Anquan Boldin, WR<o></o> (28)
TJ Houshmandzadeh, WR<o></o> (31)
Roy Williams, WR<o></o> (27)
Greg Olsen, TE<o></o> (24)

The production from this foursome is limitless... 3 top WRs in offenses that love to sling the football. Boldin = stud. TJ Housh is finally "the man" and is no longer hindered by OchoCinco and he'll have huge production. Williams has a lot to prove for the price they paid, but if you think Romo is going to be a top performer... Roy will have to be as well for Romo to do anything. And Olsen, solid young player and will leap in production with Cutler.

RB
Peyton Hillis, FB<o></o> (23)
Brandon Jacobs, RB<o></o> (27)
Kevin Smith, RB<o></o> (22)
*(also includes Norwood, listed primarily as the KR)

Wonderful options here with two clear #1 RBs that will carry the rock 15-22 times a game. Jacobs is a stud, Smith has a wonderful outlook with a new offense and Stafford at QB in the near future. There will be a learning curve in the new offense, but there's little holding him back. Hillis at FB is solid and in the new offense, expect big things. Norwood is just a bonus right now - great dual threat as a backup to MT.

OL
Marcus McNeil, LT<o></o> (25)
<st1><st1>Robert</st1> <st1>Gallery</st1></st1>, LG<o></o> (28)
Olin Kreutz, C<o></o> (32)
Chris Kuper, RG (26)

This is still a work in progress, but Kreutz is the anchor at C and the Guards are top notch. McNeil is young and recovering from an injury, but he's going to solid at LT for years.

ST
Mason Crosby, K (24)
Jerious Norwood*, KR/RB (25)

Two solid players - Crosby is a top 3-4 kicker already and Norwood racks up KR yards, he needs to add in scores this year and he'll be amazing.
<o></o>
Offense/ST Avg Age = 26.3 years

DL
Julius Peppers, DE/OLB<o></o> (29)
Ray Edwards, LDE (24)
Kevin Williams, DT<o></o><o></o> (28)
Darryl Tapp, RDE (24)

Peppers is the 'name' and a great one to have along with Williams plugging the middle. Add in Edwards and Tapp, and this is going to be an extremely formidable DL.

LB
Kirk Morrison, ILB<o></o> (27)
Zach Diles, OLB/SLB (24)
Curtis Lofton, MLB<o></o> (23)

Great value when I picked up Morrison late, he's a top 10 type of player with Diles and Lofton. Both of those guys are very young and not many know them by name, but look at their production - especially Diles. Diles missed half the season in 2008 and still finished #2 in tackles. Sure, there's an injury risk with him, but nothing more than an age risk is for an older guy and all reports have him well on track for 2009.

DB
Richard Marshall, CB<o></o> (24)
Charles Tillman, CB<o></o> (28)
Gibril Wilson, S<o></o> (27)
Roman Harper, S (26)

I simply love the DBs - all are very proven at their positions and will be a great complement to the DL. Look at their numbers over the past 2 seasons and you'll fall in love with these players.

Again, it's ok to be jealous... I know it's a bitter pill to swallow by admitting the Butte-Holes are a team poised for greatness now and in the long-term. And, like I said... if the voters go on "names" and it becomes a popularity contest, then I don't expect to win... but that's ok. I know the truth.

But, if you disagree... certainly let me know, I'd love to understand where I'm wrong in juding this team's talent.

:evil:

Pest I'm not reffering to u it's doomy saying his d is way better I just don't see it

I'm gonna agree with other mile I'm not sure bout if schaub can stay healthy a whole season. Although I like edwards seeing I originally drafted I feel u made a mistake tradding me cassel. Yep he could flop but what if he becomes a star in this league?

Overall I like how you have a complete team like I'm trying to do qb is weak and rb is sort of weak right now.


I like your recievers better than mine they all went. Before I could pick. While bryant, washington, and Keller have the big potential tag that may be all. Don't worry the D is almost complete with starters. I built this team to have a strong d unfortunately there may not be a lot of o lineman left. While my vet picks aren't plenty I have alot of flexibility with remainder draft and rookie picks. I still feel I can build the O.

Yeah - anything could happen with Cassel. And, I can't say the critics are wrong about Schaub which is why I *think* I was the first to grab a 2nd QB... I needed to have the insurance and going with youth and upside, Edwards fit the bill.

And, if Schaub can stay healthy... he has the ability to be a top 6-8 producer among all QBs with his weapons. I'll take that chance.

There isn't a great deal of difference overall for most of the teams... based on the rosters presented so far. There are a few glaring weaknesses with some teams, but they'll be addressed soon... while others have some great strengths.

But, there isn't one team that I look at and think "Good Gawd, what is he thinking..."

My offense is still shaping up, but the D is nearing completion.
NT-Ngata
DE - Aaron Smith, Jay Ratliff, Glenn Dorsey
OLB - Woodley, Shaun Phillips, Anthony Spencer
ILB - Timmons, Thomas Davis
CB - Corey Webster, Carlos Rogers, Chris Houston
S - Kerry Rhodes
I can't imagine a better 3-4 DL, and I think Dorsey will be more than capable of filling Smith's shoes in a year or two.
I love my linebackers. While I'd like to have an elite speed rusher, I like that every single one of my guys is a great blitzer. Davis hasn't been given the chance to do it much in Carolina, but his coverage skills make up for his inexperience in that department.
Though it's a player short, I wouldn't trade secondaries with anyone.
Overall, young and under-rated sums them up pretty well.

Bdeg that is a good d

I too like my secondary very underated flowers is a playmaker not my chief bias he really is and he'll show next year it wasn't a fluke. Merriweather is really good overshadowed by harrison but now he's the man back there. Dunta Robinson is one of the most underated cbs out there. Finally rolle was a hard choice but when cards put him at safety it took him a while to adjust but by the end of the season he was becoming a playmaker. As I've said before it's gonna be interesting.

That is a really nice looking D.

I think a key to evaluations in a thread like this will be whether we're evaluating teams for the 2009 season or for the long term. The ratings will likely be different. We can evaluate for the long term for entertainment purposes, but the real key in my opinion is how the teams shape up in 2009, because that's how they'll be judged. If you're building for the future, you still have to rise to the top in some individual year, whether it's this year or 2011 or 2014.

You were being extremely generous by giving him the edge at LB, IMO.

It's really not even close, and I'd be shocked to hear anyone else claim that his D is better than Doomy's.

I agree and my goal has been to compete for the title now and in the long run. I do have a number of players with a small book of work, 2-3 years... but I believe they're very proven. And, if people look at what they've done and how they compare, I think they'll see that as well.

I think his team is very good... I do think that my DEF is just as capable if not a bit better for 2009 and beyond. If you think I'm incredibly off base, I'm interested in your feedback.

Not off base at all. And FWIW, when I said "his" I meant the Cobra's.

I prefer Doomy's defense to yours, but not by a wide margin.

You have a ton of long-term potential, and a very underrated LB corp. I'm not a fan of your DB's compared to his, and that makes up most of the difference I see between your defenses.

Same to you, great value with those lb's. Can't believe they were had so late.

That's cool... I think the one 'name' player is carrying him at this point and that will benefit him in the open polling, but we'll see.

Feel free to bash my team, I didn't pick most of them.

Offense
Chad Pennington, QB
DeAngelo Williams, RB
Wes Welker, WR
Domenick Hixon, WR
Dallas Clark, TE
Jason Brown, C
Jon Stinchcomb, RT
Chris Williams, LT
Chester Pitts, G

Defense
Greg Ellis, DE
John Abraham, DE
Justin Smith, DE
Pat Sims, NT
Jonathan Vilma, LB
DJ Williams, OLB
Michael Griffin, S
Andre Goodman, CB
Will Allen, CB

Oh, I'm and idiot.

I was expecting you to list your QB#1, so somehow I scanned over him when looking at your team.

Ah. I thought you were just making an age joke about my highly trained and experienced veteran team leader who has hoisted the Lombardi trophy and been league MVP. (I'm lobbying for votes now.)

I was expecting the bickering to start at some point lol..

Ok seeing as everyone’s explaining reasons for why their teams are the best I shall put my argument forward. This however is not just why my team is fantastically awesome but also how and why I created my team the way I did…

Firstly let me state that I like my team, yet I'm not convinced it is the best quite yet, however for entertainment purposes this epic shall assume that I do.

Gather round people and hear the story of how the greatest team ever assembled was created…



The team that is assembled follows a pretty basic concept and throughout this drafting process I have tried to stay true to these principals or principal. One word VALUE my team follows a strict value chart of which I believe in and every pick I have made follows this chart. For instance it is my belief that the most important player on any team is the QB position and so I set about to select who I considered the best in the league. Next I set about creating a great defense. Defenses win championships people! And a good 4-3 defense can be dominant. To build a great defense and a 4-3 defense at that I believe you must start from the ground and as a result I chose the focus of my defense to be the front four as after all pressure on the most important player on any team is vital right? From here I set about filling holes by using my value chart and draft board which has taken into account players abilities, age, numbers of other players of similar ability at the position and the value IMHO of positions.



Offense
The role of this offense is simply to compliment the defense. With a two punch running attack and a qb more than capable of leading a successful offense that takes full advantage of the turnovers and great field position that the defense gives it what more could be asked of it. Well this offense still has the ability to score quickly and from anywhere on the Field. With explosive Steve Smith and Felix Jones, a young solid offensive line and possession receivers in Jenkins and Daniels this offense has the ability to be fantastic unit.
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Quarter Backs

QB – Peyton Manning

Still arguably the best QB in the league, every offense he touches turns to gold is my theory. Manning still has game and once again threw for over 4000 yards last year with a shambles of an offensive line and a horrible running game.

In my system that benefits from the huge play potential of Smith and Jones and a stellar defense Manning should put up tremendous numbers.

How might anyone pass on your defenses? Well simply look to the Manning lead passing attack of The Fort Wayne Dancers. After all when has Manning ever not been able to pass on a defense before?
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Running Backs

RB – Felix Jones
RB – LenDale White

These two players are anything but sure things. They aren’t exactly backs capable of carrying the whole load, however together I think they can make beautiful music.

Felix has the big play ability to rival any back in the league right now and although in his rookie season he failed to stay healthy, when healthy he should prove to be very dangerous.

White is not much more than a power back, but with a great defense this offense shall be required to grid out defenses, which White can do superbly. Much like how he paired with Johnson last year White shall again provide that short yardage power back required to perfectly complement Jones.
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Offensive Line
LT – Joe Staley
OG – Aaron Sears
OG – Mike Pollak
RT – Eric Winston

Although not complete this is a young talented line with all the potential in the world. It is immediately better than the line Peyton Manning had last year and should allow the hardest qb in the league to sack (arguably) even more time to work his magic. This is a line that can grow together and one that should provide the bases of the Fort Wayne Dancers offense for the next decade.
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Receivers

TE – Owen Daniels
WR – Steve Smith
WR – Michael Jenkins
WR – Lance Moore

The receiving core of The Fort Wayne Dancers is built on potential. However the potential is quite high.

Steve Smith is an awesome target and one of the best deep threats in the NFL. He is tough, physical, fast, shifty and incredibly productive. Teaming up with a true franchise QB and the best in the league at that, Smith has the chance to go from scary to horrifying.

Jenkins and Daniels are no slouches either and provide great potential for Manning as possession receivers.

Jenkins is a big target and is also rather athletic. Despite taking awhile to develop, the drafting of true qb for the Falcons saw his production increase nicely. Still with room to grow and an even better Qb who has a habit of bringing out the best in all his receivers The Dancers fully expect a great season out of him.

Daniels is also very productive and should provide the safety net for Peyton Manning as Dallas Clark does. Although not at athletic as Clark, Daniels plays the true TE position exceptionally well which is shown by his great production (over 700 yards the last two seasons).

_________________________________________________________________________________

Defense

This defense is a monster unit, with playmakers at every level and quality throughout it has the potential to carry this team. With an outstanding D line which rivals the Bradenton Super-Manatees in greatness and a secondary which can play man on man as well as any tandem in the league this team has tremendous ability to stop the pass. Furthermore it is going to be incredibly hard to run on. With two ginourmous baby eating DTs and linebackers that thrive in run support, this team’s defense shall be dancing on the graves of RBs and QBs alike when the season begins.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Defensive Backs

CB – Marcus Trufant
CB – Nate Clements
FS – Oshiomogho Atogwe

These guys are a pretty terrifying tandem although not the best tandem in the CPFL league they are most definitely up there. Both are fantastic in man to man coverage and both also excel in run support. Despite getting up there in years I do not think their best is behind them yet and this next year they shall be as productive as always. They now also benefit from a fantastic defensive line and as we all know a good dline makes a secondary that much better…

Oshiomogho Atogwe is an awesome talent as is a ball hawking safety in the Ed Reed mould. He is incredibly productive and is as effective against the run as he is the pass. Providing 5 forced fumbles last year he will make receivers think twice before going over the middle.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Defensive Line

DE – Patrick Kerney
DT – Albert Haynesworth
DT – Marcus Stroud
DE – Justin Tuck

When I set about to build a great defense (as after all defenses win championships) I knew d line had to be my main strength. Going against the grain and to hopefully take advantage of future drafts I decided to build a 4-3 scheme.

This unit is exactly what I envisioned and proves to be both etremly effective against the run and the pass.

Albert Haynesworth is a fantastic talent and despite moving to Washington his production IMO should not falter. He is a monster against the run at over 340 pounds and also outstanding against the run amassing 8 sacks last season. Albert is simply un-blockable.

Justin Tuck is another incredible talent. Able to play inside or outside he is incredibly strong and quite fast. As a result he plays the run as well as a he plays the pass (very good).

Marcus Stroud is getting up there in years yet he continues to dominate. His move to buffalo saw his production slip slightly last year but playing with little other help on the Bills line was the main reason for this. In fact last year he was considered to be the glue behind that defense and still had a very good year. Playing with Haynesworth, Kerney and Tuck he no longer will be the main focus of an offense and should benefit.

Patrick Kerney like Stroud is getting up there in years yet despite this his production has not wavered. Although some may point to last year as the beginning of the end for Kerney I disagree. Despite only playing 7 games last year he still managed 5 sacks and 20 tackles, which shows he is definitely not done yet.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Linebackers

DE/OLB – Vernon Gholston
ROLB – Lance Briggs
MLB – David Harris
LOLB/MLB – E.J. Henderson

Despite this unit not being as good as Chiefscafan’s linebackers (after all who could run on them? Who? WHO? WHO I ASK YOU!??!) this is a very solid unit which is pretty young (apart from Briggs). These guys are all playmakers and are exceptional against the run and thrive in coverage.

Briggs. What can I say about this cat? He does it all and thrives on cover two defense playing the weakside. Briggs simply makes plays and is a leader on that Bears defense. Not many linebackers would be able to successfully challenge Brian Urlacher to a ‘who’s the best linebacker on the team competition’, yet Briggs has and many would argue that Briggs is indeed the better player. This is a credit to how fantastic a player he is and IMHO he is slightly underrated. In the Dancers defense Briggs will play weakside and will be able to use all his playmaking abilities in space. Briggs also figures to be a leader on this defense and an awesome one at that.

Harris and Henderson are somewhat similar. They both play middle in their own systems and are both exceptional against the run and have a lot of playmaking ability especially rushing the passer. One will slide to the left side however yet this should be no problem. They are both also exceptional in pass coverage and more than able to hold their own against the TE.

Gholston has been labeled a bust by some however I think if anyone can get production out of him, its Coach Ryan. He provides great depth at DE and also should slide into the elephant linebacker role on some downs.
_________________________________________________________________________________


Ok so that’s my team so far and my argument for why my team is totally kick ass! Perhaps I went over the top there, but I have no life, so yer…

I welcome rebuttals!

The Mud Ducks!!!

QB - Donovan McNabb
RB - Marion Barber
FB - (We ain't runnin no damn fullback...)
WR - Reggie Wayne l Lee Evans l Anthony Gonzalez
TE -
LT - Tony Ugoh
LG -
C - Ben Claxton
RG - Stephen Neal
RT - Nick Kaczur

LE - Robert Mathis
UT -
NT - Tony Brown
RE - Will Smith (NO)
SLB -
MLB - Bradie James
WLB - Freddy Keiaho
CB - Asante Samuel l Antoine Carson
FS - Ed Reed
SS - Chris Horton

Roster's a little thinner than others... But I have 4 picks in the first round of the Rookie Draft... (2,6,16,18) It's shaping up nicely...

Dancers... I love the production value in the delivery!

And Now My Team. Not flashy, but solid is a good word. I did get a quote on my team from a very well spoken former coach.

"This team is like when you have a two women and one has a nice rack and nothing else, and the other has equal parts on her body. You go with the equal part woman."
- Herm Edwards on the St. Louis Commodes Team Roster.

ALT. DRAFT:

OFFENSE

QB: Jake Delhomme
RB: Matt Forte, Justin Fargas
WR: Andre Johnson, Chad Ocho Cinco,
Devery Henderson
TE: Tony Gonzalez
OL: Walter Jones, Brian Waters, Nick Mangold,
Eugene Amano, Sean Locklear

DEFENSE

DL: Kyle Vanden Bosch, Barry Cofield, Bertrand Berry
LB: Brian Urlacher, Larry Foote, Eric Barton, ?
DB: Ronde Barber, Ike Taylor, Ryan Clark,
Yeremiah Bell