Eric Berry vs. Taylor Mays
 

No, I'm not giving up on this season. This team isn't going to the playoffs. Plain and simple. But I'm still going to watch them and be encouraged by any progress I see. So if you want to bitch at me for starting a draft thread this early, go **** yourself in the eye with a sharp stick.

I've seen a couple Tennessee and USC games from last season. Taylor Mays looks MUCH better to me. He hits hard, wraps up, and is an athletic freak. Most boards I see though have Berry going before him. Granted, I'm not an NFL talent scout, but why is that?

Also, it would seem to me that this defense needs a big playmaker and that Taylor Mays is the perfect kind of athlete to fill that position versus a guy like Berry. Which one would be best for this team if we had an opportunity to draft either player this spring?

Eric Berry is more of a playmaker. He is an Ed Reed type. I would much rather have him.

Mays is a freakish athlete for sure, but Berry is the playmaker.

Mays is a freak. He's got high upside and he's very versatile. With him, it's about his indirect contribution to the unit - he gives you the ability to do different things with the guys around him.

Berry is more of a football player. It's not that he's not athletic, he's just very smart and very disciplined. He's got a real nose for the ball. With him you're probably going to get a more direct contribution via interceptions and such, but he doesn't have the versatility that Mays does.

I don't really care at this point. Either of them would be great for the Chiefs.

I wont get in on this and judge until later in the season but I become more excited about Berry everytime I watch his games. I need to see more out of Mays at this point, but I wont put one over the other yet.

In this kind of a defense though, a guy with Mays' versatility is VERY intriguing. He allows for matchups that traditional safeties, even guys as talented as Berry, might not be capable of handling.

This will become more true as NFL offenses continue to evolve in response to the offensive players coming out of college.

Taylor Mays can play any position in the back 7. He's that freakish. With that said, neither one is poor choice.

It's awfully high to take a safety, but, if I had to pick one I’d go with Berry.
Mays height, weight and slender build will make him more susceptible to injury, IMO, plus the fact that he hasn’t truly been let loose (due to USC’s defensive system), makes it foggier in terms of what he’s capable of doing.
Berry seems like the safer pick + the guy’s proven to be a ****in’ freak. Easy.

BTW - Moore seemed like a sure 1st round pick this time last year.

Do you think he could be a pass rusher in the 3-4 in the NFL? He would be a very small OLB in the 3-4. I could see Mike or Buck.

He'd be about 50 lbs underweight these days.

Thats what I was thinking. I can see him playing 6 different positions on defense. Im just wondering if anyone thinks he could be a good pass rushing LB.

Taylor Mays is never going to jump off the screen at you when you watch games because of what he's asked to do.

He's a very scheme disciplined player and he's basically used to let the other players make plays because he can do the job of 2 guys by himself.

What's your read on Berry?

Berry is allowed to freelance alot more, he makes alot of plays on the ball and has better ball skills than Mays does but he's also prone to getting beat because he goes for big plays.

This year may be a big one for Berry because he's in a scheme that is alot more about discipline now with Monte Kiffin being there.

One thing I think about them is Mays best football is ahead of him he'll be a better pro than college player, Berry I'm not so sure he translates quite the same.

True, but man, you gotta admit, when he was baited outside against Ohio State that was a huge mistake on his part that allowed a giant gain. I was pulling for USC in the end though.

He tried to jump a route to make a play, but if you noticed when SC had to make sure they got stops, they went right back to using Mays as the cover 1 safety that doesn't get beat over the top.

You can use him as a playmaker if you desire but one thing is for sure there isn't a better cover 1 safety in the game.

The idea of Taylor Mays being a LB is reatardered. He wouldn't even make a good 3-4 ILB. He'd be run over down after down.
The guy's an optimal SS and fast enough to play FS and scare the shit out of anybody daring to cross the middle.

He's 230 lbs. The nutritionists at USC have said multiple times that they have to watch his nutrition and lifting very closely, because if they don't, he just packs on muscle. His dad was a DT. He can very easily put 30-40 lbs on his frame and play as an OLB, but that's not the point.


He's sturdy enough to do it in situations, a la Polamalu, and he hits like a ****ing mack truck, a la MLBs.

There's a lot more to Mays than just looking at his height/weight/40.

When you think about ways to use Mays, you almost need to think about how the Rams used Marshall Faulk. He's that versatile.

Mays is a bigger Polamalu to me

Berry is a Ed Reed type of player.


So... basically, I will jizz if we get either.

I don't know why you're quoting me I didn't say I'd play him at LB.

I think playing him at SS is kind of a waste too since the guy is great in coverage and has amazing range.

Here you go:

Taylor Mays, USC, safety: Scary. That is the best way to describe Mays. His combination of size and speed in a safety is freakish. And in the Trojans' spring game, Mays obliterated Patrick Turner, the team's towering 6-foot-5, 230-pound receiver on a play when he came over the middle. I suspect many Pac-10 receivers envision similar scenes before they face the Trojans and their super-fast, super-sized DB. Mays' workout numbers are ridiculous. He's 6-3, 226 pounds, with 6 percent body fat and ran an electronically timed 40 this spring in 4.32 seconds. He did 26 reps with 225 pounds while also vertical jumping 41 inches and doing a standing broad jump of 11-4. (As evidence in his growth, Mays arrived at USC weighing 215 and posted a vertical jump of 35 inches and a broad jump of 10-0.)
Asked if he's even seen anything that big, move that fast, USC strength coach Chris Carlisle paused for a few moments: "Maybe when I walked by the cheetah cage at the wildlife park." Mays' athleticism actually presents USC with a different kind of issue: a talent with such growth potential that you have to guard against him outgrowing the position. "Our big thing is he could get too big too fast," says Carlisle, who also gushes about the player's work ethic. "He could easily be like his daddy [former NFL defensive lineman Stafford Mays] so we have to make him better without making him bigger because he could be like 260 in a month."
Carlisle predicts Mays could still run a sub-4.4 40 at that size, but says the key is keeping the DB from bulking up too much in his lower body. "We could use him like a science experiment, but that really wouldn't be of value to him or the team."


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/column...uce&id=3420212

WTF?

Mays is a labratory creation much like Ivan Drago.

My deepest apologies. I pressed the wrong buddin.
I'm getting ready for the Chargers game.:drool:
But I agree with you 100%. FS is where he'd do the most damage.

After watching the highlights Mecca posted I favor Berry because he is more of a play maker. I see Mays always going for the big hit and rarely wraps up which isn't going to work in the NFL. Also after his appearance the other night I wasn't very impressed but I realize he got hurt early and that probably had alot to do with that.

But I see Tennessee playing Florida this Saturday so I will watch and see how Berry does.

If he could weigh 260 and still run a 4.3 He would be an automatic #1 pick. Thats just unreal

Berry is actually more of a power hitter IMO. Its kind of funny, hes a lot smaller than Mays yet ive seen Berry always going for the power hits.

Berry and it's not even that difficult a choice in my mind.

On draft day there's a pretty good chance Mays goes first...it's going to be hard to ignore the 5 inches and 40lbs.

He could potentially play WLB in a 4-3. But he could definitely be a nickel backer. No, he won't ever play LB in a 3-4, but he could play LB in other defensive schemes.

Look at the article I put up.

That's why I used the word "intriguing" before. In the right hands, he could be that shiny new toy that Marshall was for the Rams. You could find ways to use a guy like that that kind of defy conventional defensive thinking.

And like I said before, I do think this will eventually become necessary as NFL offenses evolve. As more and more college teams move to spread and option offenses, NFL offenses are going to be forced to adapt or there's simply not going to be enough players to draw from.

That being said, college defenses are starting to catch up and you're going to see more guys like this come along.

Yeah, that's crazy. I didn't know that. I've always looked at him as a pure safety.

We both know his talents would be wasted at WLB.

I personally think his talent would be wasted if you put him at any one position. I'd play him all over the place - wherever I thought he created the best matchup on any given down.

You don't just put him at Will, you use him like a defensive Marshall Faulk. You blitz with him, you use him as a nickel corner, you have him cover the deep middle, you use him on a TE or slot guy, you use him as a zone blitzer, whatever.

He's so athletic and so versatile that limiting him to one scheme is doing your team a disservice.

+1

Mays and Berry are both fine players. If I had my choice we'd draft Russell Okung and move Albert to the right. Albert is a serviceable left tackle but not an elite one. He'd be a helluva right tackle. Then our O line looks a lot better and we can actually move the ball and give out QBs time.

From everything I've seen Mays is an athletic freak whereas Berry is a playmaker who's always around the ball.

Good god. You took a perfectly good thread about drafting once in a generation safety talent and turned it into another truefan draft-a-lineman-#1-overall-when you-have-your franchise-lt-already thread.
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ha. i doubt either of them are "once in a lifetime" and Albert is far from a franchise LT.

That's because Mays doesn't play in the SEC.

No.

We could make our line look better, move the ball, and give our QB's time without spending another 1st round pick on a tackle...

Yes.

Well, we could improve our safeties who arent that bad to begin with without drafting another one in the first. I'd rank safety near the bottom of our needs. We need offensive linemen, wide receivers, pass rushers, and a nose tackle MUCH more than a safety.

Berry has better ball skills than Mays and over his collegiate career has been more of a playmaker. Now, that could be due to what each is asked to do.

How about we just draft a ****ing RT in a reasonable round (not the first) and keep Albert at LT, where he is still young with upside and could really blossom into one of the best LTs in the game?

And how about if we use that 1st rounder on a talented playmaker that could instantly turn this defense into something special?

I didn't say once in a lifetime. I said once in a generation. Further, albert doesn't profile as a rt. Further still, albert is definitely a fit at lt. He just needs to adjust to his new body and he will be back to last year form if not better.
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Aaron Curry is re-entering the draft next year?

Name the last Super Bowl team (not winner, just participant) who had two top-15 draft picks on their offensive line.

Albert is such a fit at LT that he wasn't even the left tackle on his college team. I like Albert. He's one of the only decent linemen we have but I think the rest of our O-Line is so shitty that people get an inflated sense of his talent. He is not Willie Roaf.

Omg. This thread was great. Then it had a stroke and is now full of incoherent babble.
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You don't get playmaking safeties in the later rounds. You get them in the 1st 90% of the time.

On the other hand, the SUCCESSFUL teams get their offensive linemen anywhere BUT the 1st round.

You're looking at the roster and basically going position by position and saying "adequate" or "not adequate". That's not how a championship team is built. All positions don't have the same value, some have more impact than others.

.http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/...5986b5e6c1.jpg

Sorry, but if you think our safeties "aren't that bad" I gotta wonder what games you're watching.

Albert played left guard in college because eugene monroe didn't have the versatility to play guard. Albert has the potential to be one of the best left tackles in the game. But please keep grasping for straws.
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What's worse - our safeties, our tight ends, our offensive line, our wide receivers or our linebackers?

I have no idea and I don't have the time to look it up. How many Super Bowl teams drafted safeties in the top 10?

Keep in mind that Ed Reed was #24, and Troy Polamalu was #16

BTW, the 2006 Chicago Bears. John Tait and Ruben Brown.

And how many picks did they spend on those guys?

that wasn't the question

It is relevant, however.
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I want someone to point to me another player on any level of football like Taylor Mays that dude is rare.

I don't think that this guy understands that an elite defense can do a lot more for your team than a decent offense could ever do. Not to mention a decent offense can be build in the later rounds, and free agency, not to mention farming the practice squad for o-lineman.

If this team had a few key players on defense, and a couple o-lineman, they could win with this QB and these RB's, and WR's.

Go read Htismage's "my take" thread. You'll find a lot of good information about how a stud safety could help this team. Think Carr and Flowers minus the 10 yard cushion. Factor in a pass rushing OLB to move Hali to the other side where he belongs, and this team could be exciting.

Have you seen one person say otherwise? You seriously don't need to keep repeating yourself.

I just never want to see an OT mentioned again when we're discussing the 2 best safety prospects maybe ever.

That's fine. But this is going to be the longest season and offseason ever if you keep repeating the exact same thing about Mays in literally every post about him.

We all know he is a freakish athlete and is rare.

Everyone knows that.

This. Times a kajillion.

Carlos Dunlap perhaps.

Carlos Dunlap is not a 3-4 player...

You want an OL or another 3-4 end great we'll take one later in the draft.

I think he was just answering your question.

Dunlap is another very rare player with unbelievable athletic ability. Kind of like Mays.

I'd feel better about taking Mays if he didn't have below-average athleticism.

I didn't mention anything about drafting him. You wanted another player that was a physical freak of nature like Mays, and I think that Dunlap is of that same type of guy. 6'6", 295 lb. and runs a 4.6.

And the Chiefs have a definite need at safety. I'd be thrilled if they get the chance at Mays, whose intangibles and size puts him over Berry in my book.

Shit all i have seen is mays make big hits. Doesn't even attempt to wrap up. See how well that works out in the nfl........ Don't get me wrong he has a great nose for the ball.

This idea that he doesn't wrap up is bunk, his highlights are full of big hits cause well no one is going to make a highlight tape of a guy making form tackles.

Yeh you have a point. No picks in 08? I gotta think thats because he is looking for the big hit. Or is that just usc's scheme?

ROFL

It's the scheme, he is a cover 1 safety his entire job was to play the deep middle and not give up the big play because everyone else was up on the line.

And guess what, USC gave up the fewest passes over 20 yards in college football finished with the #1 defense etc etc.

Dayum

Terrible thread. Very negative.