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-   -   Football Amnorix - it's time for the Hoodie Bowl (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=215612)

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 09:23 AM

Amnorix - it's time for the Hoodie Bowl
 
Yeah, yeah... this is a Chiefs' board, but I wanted to stir something up with the resident NE fan. I definitely like the location of this game and it has to be nothing but a solid advantage for Denver. If Dallas was favored by a FG, I'm guessing NE will be favored by at least 6-7 points.

It is what it is, but if Denver's defense plays like they have in the first 4 games... then it's going to be a close game and one that Denver could actually win. Can they go 5-0? That's a tall freaking order, but they're slowly getting more aggressive on offense and defensively, they're going to be tested for 4 straight quarters with NE.

The realists in me says Denver will not go 5-0... something has to give and Denver will lose a number of games this year, but I'm very optimistic about their chances of winning if they can put the pressure on Brady like they did with Romo.

Amnorix - what do you think of this matchup? Oh, and the rest of you can chime in as well... this will be an interesting chess match between teacher and pupil.

<<>>>

Stats are stats... but, here you go.

Total Offense
Patriots - 8th
Passing - 5th overall (273 ypg) / Rushing 18th (102 ypg)
Broncos - 9th
Passing - 17th overall (217 ypg) / Rushing 4th (148 ypg)

NE averages 21.8 points per game / DEN averages 19.8 points per game
NE ranked 3rd in TOP with 35+ minutes / DEN ranked 12th with 30+ minutes

Total Defense
Patriots - 8th
Passing - 8th (192 ypg) / 11th (95 ypg)
Broncos - 2nd
Passing - 3rd overall (162 yg) / 5th (77 ypg)

NE allowing 17.8 points per game / DEN allowing 6.5 points per game
NE ranked 14th with 8 sacks / DEN ranked #1 with 15 sacks

BY1401 10-05-2009 09:36 AM

From what I remember, the Broncos always seem to give New England fits.

5-0 isn't out of the question for Denver, IMRO.

Dave Lane 10-05-2009 09:42 AM

The Donkeys are an aberration. They will come down to earth. I'd make the Pats about a 8-9 point favorite.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 09:45 AM

Denver has a solid W/L record overall vs NE... 24 wins and 16 losses overall.

NE thumped Denver in 2008 in NE. DEN defeated NE in 2006 in NE and twice in 2005, once in the regular season and once in the playoffs - both in Denver.

Quesadilla Joe 10-05-2009 09:54 AM

Denver could have an advantage over the Patriots in the coaching department this week. McDaniels knows everything about Tom Brady and the strengths and weakness of that offense.

Belichick knows McDaniels well, but he doesn't know our players and their strengths and weakness.

This will be an interesting sideline chess match.

The Bad Guy 10-05-2009 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 6141242)
Denver could have an advantage over the Patriots in the coaching department this week. McDaniels knows everything about Tom Brady and the strengths and weakness of that offense.

Belichick knows McDaniels well, but he doesn't know our players and their strengths and weakness.

This will be an interesting sideline chess match.

After almost 8 years of game film, I'd imagine the entire league knows everything they need to know about Tom Brady.

That doesn't mean you stop him.

And laugh out freaking loud at the comment that McDaniels might have the coaching edge over Belichick.

There is no way you believe the things you type on here.

Stinger 10-05-2009 09:58 AM

Is it wrong to wish for a meteor shower to hit the field during the game?

BigMeatballDave 10-05-2009 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger (Post 6141261)
Is it wrong to wish for a meteor shower to hit the field during the game?

I'm cool with just a single large meteor.

Quesadilla Joe 10-05-2009 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 6141248)
After almost 8 years of game film, I'd imagine the entire league knows everything they need to know about Tom Brady.

That doesn't mean you stop him.

And laugh out freaking loud at the comment that McDaniels might have the coaching edge over Belichick.

There is no way you believe the things you type on here.

Who would know more about a team....

Someone who coached that team for 8 years?

Or someone who played them once every 4 years?

McDaniels would know more than anyone what Tom Brady struggles against. He was his QB Coach after-all.

McDaniels is one of the smartest coaches in the NFL. Mike Shanahan was great at coming up with a gameplan to start out hot early in the game, but he rarely made adjustments at halftime and we almost always started out slowly in the 3rd Quarter.

McDaniels has been EXCELLENT at adjusting on the fly especially after halftime.

JD10367 10-05-2009 10:21 AM

Denver is better than people thought they'd be, especially on D. On O, I grudgingly concede that Knowshon was a good pick, and the formerly-unhappy WR has got game. Orton is a game manager who isn't asked to do too much, but if the O-line can chop-block... er, I mean, pass-protect--then he can get the job done.

Playing in Denver is always an advantage for the Broncos.

McDaniels will add nothing to this week. As mentioned, EVERYONE knows what Brady can do. It's not like he's new to the league. And, trust me, Belichick always has tricks up his sleeve that he hasn't shown his minions. Belichick knows what it is that he has and hasn't shown McDaniels, so Belichick will gameplan accordingly.

It'll probably be a close game, especially if Brady continues his off-target first-half performances. But the Broncos have yet to play an opponent as good as the Patriots, IMO. Yeah, their stats are better than the Pats, but they also played weaker teams. The Pats are on a weird roll where each team they play is undefeated at the time (Buffalo was 0-0, the Jets were 1-0, the Falcons were 2-0, the Ravens were 3-0, and the Broncos are 4-0).

If the Broncos win, or keep it within 7, I'll concede that they're for real and have a solid shot at winning the AFC West, especially if the Chargers keep shitting their pants and underachieving.

Really, nothing would surprise me this weekend. Big Pats win, squeaker win by either side, big Broncos win. Although, of course, as a Patriots fan I feel the latter is a very slim possibility. :)

RJ 10-05-2009 10:21 AM

The Broncos can beat the Patriots, provided none of their defenders goes within three yards of Tom Brady. Any violation of Tom Brady's Personal Space will result in a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.

Pioli Zombie 10-05-2009 10:24 AM

As a Patriots fan going to Denver is one game I'm always nervous. I've learned to hate the Broncos because they give us fits. But after beating Atlanta and the Ravens, if the Patriots can gpo in there and beat Denver they are all the way back.
Posted via Mobile Device

JD10367 10-05-2009 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ (Post 6141325)
The Broncos can beat the Patriots, provided none of their defenders goes within three yards of Tom Brady. Any violation of Tom Brady's Personal Space will result in a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.

Yeah, yeah, we get it. The fouls were a bit ticky-tack. But, frankly, everyone knows that star players get star treatment. Michael Jordan made a living off it in the NBA. If you whack a Brady or a Peyton they're gonna call it quicker than if you hog-wrestle Joe Flacco or JaFatAss Russell. It's not right, but that's how it goes.

On the one hand, I agree with Rodney Harrison. The QBs are protected too much. On the other hand, "it is what it is". Everyone knows the rules. Everyone knows that if you even graze a QB's head with your hand it's getting called. Everyone knows that if you hit the knees it's getting called. Whether you meant it or not ain't worth shit. I'm pretty sure that Squirmin' Herman didn't tell the Chiefs D at the start of last season's opener, "Okay, no matter what, we have to take Brady out!" :shrug: The NFL has put the QB in a protective bubble.

JD10367 10-05-2009 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6141329)
But after beating Atlanta and the Ravens, if the Patriots can gpo in there and beat Denver they are all the way back.

Uh... no. If they beat Denver, they are not "all the way back". In the first place, Denver is not the measuring stick for that. In the second place, the Pats were never "not back". In the third place, they don't hand out hats and T-shirts for beating Denver in early October. It's just another game in a long line of tough games.

Now, if Brady does NOT have a shaky first half, and has a nice 70% completion rate day of 400 yards and 4 TDs, then maybe HE is "all the way back". That's about it.

RJ 10-05-2009 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 6141342)
Everyone knows that if you hit the knees it's getting called.


I think Brady is the only QB in the league who gets that call on Suggs.

Deberg_1990 10-05-2009 10:39 AM

Will Belliturd shake McDaniels hand? Or blow him off?

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 6141293)
Who would know more about a team....

Someone who coached that team for 8 years?

Or someone who played them once every 4 years?

McDaniels would know more than anyone what Tom Brady struggles against. He was his QB Coach after-all.

McDaniels is one of the smartest coaches in the NFL. Mike Shanahan was great at coming up with a gameplan to start out hot early in the game, but he rarely made adjustments at halftime and we almost always started out slowly in the 3rd Quarter.

McDaniels has been EXCELLENT at adjusting on the fly especially after halftime.

You're kidding, right? Belichick has been an NFL coach since 1976, the year that McDaniels was BORN. I'm thinking that Belichick MIGHT come up with a way to try to deal all the wrinkles McDaniels comes up with.

I also note that I'm sure his Ratness had no words of advice regarding his former players when he visited the Hooded One back during the Pats' training camp. I mean, it's not like they're friends and BB knew the Broncos were on the schedule or anything...

http://cdn.necn.com/files/2009/08/05...ap-2161492.jpg

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 6141382)
Will Belliturd shake McDaniels hand? Or blow him off?

McDaniels, like Dimitroff in Atlanta, Weis at ND, Crennel in neverneverland, and Pioli in KC, remains a member of the extended Belichick network.

Mangina is dead, and his long slow demise in Cleveland is a joy to behold, though I pity the poor, long-suffering Browns fans who drove BB out of their town, and then had their team leave on them only to watch them both win SBs a few years later.

JD10367 10-05-2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ (Post 6141376)
I think Brady is the only QB in the league who gets that call on Suggs.

I disagree, especially since they beefed up the rules BECAUSE of Brady's injury last year. Brady gets that call, but so does Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, Rivers.... as I said, maybe Russell in Oakland doesn't get it. Which is wrong. But the human refereeing element in sports is always an issue. Baseball umpires have their own strike zones, and vary from pitch to pitch. Basketball refs have their own ideas of what a foul looks like. Football is no different. Unless they're going to have a refereeing committee in an overhead booth and LITERALLY review each play for 30 seconds to make a decision, there's no way around it.

Quesadilla Joe 10-05-2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141385)
You're kidding, right? Belichick has been an NFL coach since 1976, the year that McDaniels was BORN. I'm thinking that Belichick MIGHT come up with a way to try to deal all the wrinkles McDaniels comes up with.

I also note that I'm sure his Ratness had no words of advice regarding his former players when he visited the Hooded One back during the Pats' training camp. I mean, it's not like they're friends and BB knew the Broncos were on the schedule or anything...

Belichick learned everything he knows about the 3-4 Defense from when he was in Denver learning from Joe Collier. Advantage Denver.;)

I know Shanahan was there. I also know that Shanahan visited the Steelers.

52% of last years' roster is gone. The only help Shanahan could give Belichick is with Denvers' offensive line.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:50 AM

My thoughts, randomly stated:

1. Patriots have always had trouble with Denver, epsecially at Mile High. With Shanahan, especially, but even before him with Dan Reeves.

2. Patriots had TREMENDOUS turnover this past offseason. Much more than normal for any NFL team, much less one that went 11-5 last year. Lots of coaches left, not just McDaniels, and a number of senior players retired or were traded. Because of that, we started off very slow. Squeaking past the mediocre Bills, and losing to the Jets. But we're improving faster than any team in the NFL, as Brady gains more confidence and the defense learns each other's names (with Mayo out, only something like 4 starters otu of 11 returned on the defense). The Pats team that played the Ravens was exponentially better than the pathetic version that squeaked by Buffalo.

3. Patriots defense is surprisingly good. If Mayo comes back, and he may be back this week as he seemingly participated in practice last Friday, then look out. This defense may be much better than anyone had anticipated before the season started.

4. McDaniels is a good coach, and I have no doubt he has several very explicit thoughts on the weaknesses of the Patriots players. That said, it's not as if every other team in the NFL hasn't been attacking the Patriots' perceived weaknesses for years. You think Mangina didn't speak with other coaches and try to give them tips when he was HC of the NYJ? Haven't Patriots coaches left to go to other franchises before. Other players have moved on too -- Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Drew Bledsoe, the list is nearly endless.

I think it will be a tough game, but I think the Patriots can and will take Marshall out of the game, as they did TO and Tony Gonzalez, while the Broncos will struggle to contain the rapidly improving Pats offense.

I admit that I don't believe, yet, that the Broncos are "real". In fact, the entire AFCW seems pretty unreal to me, and not in a good way.

JD10367 10-05-2009 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 6141412)
52% of last years' roster is gone. The only help Shanahan could give Belichick is with Denvers' offensive line.

Well, if that's how you're gonna play it... most of the Patriots' D is new, so McDaniels will have little to go on. And on O, McDaniels has no immediate familiarity with Fred Taylor, Julian Edelman, Joey Galloway (if he can get off the bench)... :shrug: And, yeah, McDaniels might know Brady, Moss, and Welker... but knowing them doesn't equal stopping them. That's one of the best QBs in NFL history, one of the best WRs in NFL history, and a little white guy who's quickly turning into one of the best clutch WRs around in terms of moving the chains and making things happen.

Like I said, I concede that the Broncos are better than expected. I had them pegged for 2nd or 3rd in the AFC West, at around 5 to 7 wins, maybe 8. It looks like they have a good shot at finishing over .500, maybe even winning the division. But 4-0 can turn sour quickly as well, so let's not print those playoff tickets until we see them finish this upcoming stretch against very tough teams.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BY1401 (Post 6141194)
From what I remember, the Broncos always seem to give New England fits.

5-0 isn't out of the question for Denver, IMRO.

No that it means anything in the game coming up, but we flat out own the Patriots, period.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 6141412)
Belichick learned everything he knows about the 3-4 Defense from when he was in Denver learning from Joe Collier. Advantage Denver.;)

Well that would certainly be a case of the student outdoing the master...

Quote:

52% of last years' roster is gone. The only help Shanahan could give Belichick is with Denvers' offensive line.
Alot of that "help" stuff is overrated. By the time a player has been int he league for a few years, the book on him is pretty much written.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
My thoughts, randomly stated:

1. Patriots have always had trouble with Denver, epsecially at Mile High. With Shanahan, especially, but even before him with Dan Reeves.

John Elway, who won't be playing in this weekends game, was 16-0 all time versus the PAts. That means in John's 16 year career, one entire regular season was spent just beating the Patriots.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141424)
No that it means anything in the game coming up, but we flat out own the Patriots, period.

You seem to have forgotten the most recent game between our teams. Surprising, since it was on a Monday night and all.

Let me help you refresh your memory:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27288299/

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
My thoughts, randomly stated:



2. Patriots had TREMENDOUS turnover this past offseason. Much more than normal for any NFL team, much less one that went 11-5 last year. Lots of coaches left, not just McDaniels, and a number of senior players retired or were traded. Because of that, we started off very slow. Squeaking past the mediocre Bills, and losing to the Jets. But we're improving faster than any team in the NFL, as Brady gains more confidence and the defense learns each other's names (with Mayo out, only something like 4 starters otu of 11 returned on the defense). The Pats team that played the Ravens was exponentially better than the pathetic version that squeaked by Buffalo.

Well considering the Ravens had to beat the Patriots and the refs it's not suprising that the Pats were able to squeak by the Ravens.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141432)
John Elway, who won't be playing in this weekends game, was 16-0 all time versus the PAts. That means in John's 16 year career, one entire regular season was spent just beating the Patriots.

I've noted the key words in your post. I suggest that you would agree with me that Orton doesn't equal Elway.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141446)
Well considering the Ravens had to beat the Patriots and the refs it's not suprising that the Pats were able to squeak by the Ravens.

So the Ravens say. They seem to complain about the refs alot when they lose to the Patriots. I dont' blame them -- the Brady rule is annoying for defensive players. I'm not hugely in favor of some of them myself. But learn the rules and play by them is all you can do.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141442)
You seem to have forgotten the most recent game between our teams. Surprising, since it was on a Monday night and all.

Let me help you refresh your memory:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27288299/

I remember it. I also know we have your coach that made it happen for you offensively. It should be a good game and your team could definately win the game, but lets not act like your team is some kind of juggernaut that's unstoppable.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141451)
So the Ravens say. They seem to complain about the refs alot when they lose to the Patriots. I dont' blame them -- the Brady rule is annoying for defensive players. I'm not hugely in favor of some of them myself. But learn the rules and play by them is all you can do.

Those two calls were complete BS and you know it that result in two TD's. That's okay. We'll hit him high and make him say Matte. :)

Christofire 10-05-2009 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
4. McDaniels is a good coach, and I have no doubt he has several very explicit thoughts on the weaknesses of the Patriots players. That said, it's not as if every other team in the NFL hasn't been attacking the Patriots' perceived weaknesses for years.

Perhaps that's part of the reason the Pats had so much of the roster turnover you talked about in the offseason. He knew guys like Pioli and McDaniels knew too much about his current defensive players and schemes, so now was the time to start bringing in fresh guys, and tweak the schemes to the new players' talents, thus reducing the value of prior inside info.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 11:07 AM

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachm...0&d=1254761818

New Brady Rule

BY1401 10-05-2009 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141424)
No that it means anything in the game coming up, but we flat out own the Patriots, period.

I remember there used to be a three-way ownagefest several years back.

The Patriots owned the Colts.
The Broncos owned the Patriots.
The Colts owned the Broncos.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141458)
Those two calls were complete BS and you know it that result in two TD's. That's okay. We'll hit him high and make him say Matte. :)


:shrug: Pats had an identical helmet slap penalty called for a hit on Flacco by Mike Wright, and the helmet slap thing has been a penalty for approximately forever.

And, newslfash, going at or below the knees is a penalty now. You may not have heard, but they instituted this new rule about it a little while ago...

Ray Lewis might wish the rules were teh same as when he came into the league in '97 or whatever. I wish that too sometimes, but all the players can do is play by the rules.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141452)
I remember it. I also know we have your coach that made it happen for you offensively. It should be a good game and your team could definately win the game, but lets not act like your team is some kind of juggernaut that's unstoppable.

Right. Belichick just sat there and watched while Weis and McDaniels did their thing. Without them, he's helpless. If only he understood how to play offensive football.

I humbly suggest that the Patriots have far more unstoppable juggernaut potential than the Broncos. Whether potential becomes reality has yet to be determined.

RJ 10-05-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141485)
:shrug: Pats had an identical helmet slap penalty called for a hit on Flacco by Mike Wright, and the helmet slap thing has been a penalty for approximately forever.

And, newslfash, going at or below the knees is a penalty now. You may not have heard, but they instituted this new rule about it a little while ago...

Ray Lewis might wish the rules were teh same as when he came into the league in '97 or whatever. I wish that too sometimes, but all the players can do is play by the rules.


That's the BS part of the Suggs call. He didn't do anything outside the rules. He brushed close enough to Brady's legs for Brady to put on a show and the ref threw the flag. I don't believe any other qb in the league gets that call. The head slaps are a different story, the defender has to be smart enough to not hit the helmet, but there was nothing Suggs could have or should have done different.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141485)
:shrug: Pats had an identical helmet slap penalty called for a hit on Flacco by Mike Wright, and the helmet slap thing has been a penalty for approximately forever.

And, newslfash, going at or below the knees is a penalty now. You may not have heard, but they instituted this new rule about it a little while ago...

Ray Lewis might wish the rules were teh same as when he came into the league in '97 or whatever. I wish that too sometimes, but all the players can do is play by the rules.

The thing is he grazed Brady. It was a ridiculous call.

Just Passin' By 10-05-2009 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ (Post 6141376)
I think Brady is the only QB in the league who gets that call on Suggs.

Go watch a replay of the penalty called on Wilfork for hitting Edwards in the Buffalo game. The notion that only Brady gets that call is absurd.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141488)

I humbly suggest that the Patriots have far more unstoppable juggernaut potential than the Broncos. Whether potential becomes reality has yet to be determined.

Maybe. You guys will probably win 40 to 14.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ (Post 6141513)
That's the BS part of the Suggs call. He didn't do anything outside the rules. He brushed close enough to Brady's legs for Brady to put on a show and the ref threw the flag. I don't believe any other qb in the league gets that call. The head slaps are a different story, the defender has to be smart enough to not hit the helmet, but there was nothing Suggs could have or should have done different.

I haven't watched the play 10 times from different angles or anything. From the 2 or 3 times I saw it replayed during the game, it appeared he simply went low without any good reason, admittedly not hitting Brady hard, but with potentially malicious intent. Talk up here is for Suggs to expect to receive a fine from the league.

What redeeming circumstances did I miss, other than that he didn't, in fact, blow out anyone's knee?

Amnorix 10-05-2009 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141543)
The thing is he grazed Brady. It was a ridiculous call.

yeah, that's the issue. Dungy said the same thing last night. Not quite sure how the rule was written, but if it's any hit at or below the knees, as is likely, then what do you expect?

The helmet slaps in yesterday's Pats/Ravens game, by both players, were pretty damn soft. Neither one was a wind up and knock 'em out type of head shot.

RJ 10-05-2009 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141563)
I haven't watched the play 10 times from different angles or anything. From the 2 or 3 times I saw it replayed during the game, it appeared he simply went low without any good reason, admittedly not hitting Brady hard, but with potentially malicious intent. Talk up here is for Suggs to expect to receive a fine from the league.


If Suggs had had malicious intent, he could have messed Brady up pretty bad. I think most NFL fans are probably in agreement that the QB's are over-protected, but I also understand that the teams, the league, the networks and the sponsors all have a lot of money riding on the marquee QB's staying healthy.

teedubya 10-05-2009 11:51 AM

The Broncos being 4-0 is a HUGE crock of shit.

Sure-Oz 10-05-2009 11:53 AM

Orton is a beast

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141568)
yeah, that's the issue. Dungy said the same thing last night. Not quite sure how the rule was written, but if it's any hit at or below the knees, as is likely, then what do you expect?

The helmet slaps in yesterday's Pats/Ravens game, by both players, were pretty damn soft. Neither one was a wind up and knock 'em out type of head shot.

I execpt the refs to properly protect the QB, which they didn't do yesterday at all. It's still football. Brady gets paid a bunch...and it's hazard pay.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Chi3fs (Post 6141596)
The Broncos being 4-0 is a HUGE crock of shit.

How so?

Quesadilla Joe 10-05-2009 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 6141597)
Orton is a beast

THIS

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
My thoughts, randomly stated:

1. Patriots have always had trouble with Denver, epsecially at Mile High. With Shanahan, especially, but even before him with Dan Reeves.

It's the benefit of home field.. NE has the same when they play at home, which is where they played in 2008 when NE blasted Denver. But, both teams have had a face lift since that meeting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
2. Patriots had TREMENDOUS turnover this past offseason. Much more than normal for any NFL team, much less one that went 11-5 last year. Lots of coaches left, not just McDaniels, and a number of senior players retired or were traded. Because of that, we started off very slow. Squeaking past the mediocre Bills, and losing to the Jets. But we're improving faster than any team in the NFL, as Brady gains more confidence and the defense learns each other's names (with Mayo out, only something like 4 starters otu of 11 returned on the defense). The Pats team that played the Ravens was exponentially better than the pathetic version that squeaked by Buffalo.

Denver has started slow too... with a new coaching staff, new offense and new 3-4 defense with 52% roster turnover. Defensively, there are 5 new starters and on offense... new QB, two new RBs... lots of new players, some you are familiar with as well. Massive turnover has touched both teams, but I don't think NE experienced more...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
3. Patriots defense is surprisingly good. If Mayo comes back, and he may be back this week as he seemingly participated in practice last Friday, then look out. This defense may be much better than anyone had anticipated before the season started.

I don't believe there are any injury concerns coming from yesterday's game for Denver, but the exact same applies for Denver. Nobody expected much from this team... there's a "Garbage" clip around here somewhere. 75% of Denver's secondary was churned for the better... new starters up front and at LB are proving to be fantastic additions so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
4. McDaniels is a good coach, and I have no doubt he has several very explicit thoughts on the weaknesses of the Patriots players. That said, it's not as if every other team in the NFL hasn't been attacking the Patriots' perceived weaknesses for years. You think Mangina didn't speak with other coaches and try to give them tips when he was HC of the NYJ? Haven't Patriots coaches left to go to other franchises before. Other players have moved on too -- Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Drew Bledsoe, the list is nearly endless.

Enh, too much is made of this in my opinion... yeah, McD has intimate knowledge of what NE does... maybe some things you can't pick up on film. But, it's not like Bill doesn't know how McD thinks... and McD is still a rookie HC, so I'm not going to suggest that McD has some jedi tricks ready to roll. Unless he's ready to unveil the league's next greatest phenomenon since the Wildcat. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
I think it will be a tough game, but I think the Patriots can and will take Marshall out of the game, as they did TO and Tony Gonzalez, while the Broncos will struggle to contain the rapidly improving Pats offense.

BUF and NE games were in NE... tough place for any young QBs to play and taking TO out of the mix hasn't proved to be that incredibly difficult this year. And, based on the games I've seen... McD has done a fine job of taking Marshall out of the mix, but the good thing is... they have several other very capable weapons and what I do like is that after this last game, a happy and productive Marshall will require special attention from the NE defense. But, to suggest taking TO out means they will take Marshall out... that's a bit dreamy. Again, we'll see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141422)
I admit that I don't believe, yet, that the Broncos are "real". In fact, the entire AFCW seems pretty unreal to me, and not in a good way.

I don't know if they're "real" yet either... but, I do know they've played damn well ... everyone was touting the vaunted Cowboys' rushing attack and they didn't break 80 yards. The game is in Denver... the place will be electric and at the very least, Denver's defense has played consistently well and while they break on a few plays, they stand tall when it matters. So far...

I could see a 20-17 ending to this one... I just hope that Denver does enough to be on the 20 side of that equation.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 6141674)
I could see a 20-17 ending to this one... I just hope that Denver does enough to be on the 20 side of that equation.

I admit I'll be surprised if you can score 20 on the Patriots defense, and I'll be surprised if the Patriots can't score at least 21 against the Broncos.

I'll say 24-14 or somesuch, Patriots.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141696)
I admit I'll be surprised if you can score 20 on the Patriots defense, and I'll be surprised if the Patriots can't score at least 21 against the Broncos.

I'll say 24-14 or somesuch, Patriots.

LMAO We'll soon find out... NE is 3-0 on the home turf and they lost the one road game they played vs the Jets. The Bills put up 24 points against NE, so I'll take my chances with Denver hitting the 20 point mark in Denver.

JD10367 10-05-2009 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141696)
I admit I'll be surprised if you can score 20 on the Patriots defense, and I'll be surprised if the Patriots can't score at least 21 against the Broncos.

I'll say 24-14 or somesuch, Patriots.

I dunno, I can see Denver scoring 14 offensively, but add a few FGs and another Matt Light "Ole!" block that results in a fumble... :shrug: It wouldn't shock me if the Broncos put up 24, 27 points.

The question, really, is going to be which Brady shows up (the off-target one of the first halves, or the more accurate Brady of the second halves). And which Patriots' O-line shows up. And whether or not the WRs catch all the passes or drop more of them. Depending on how all that goes, the Pats could hang 31 or 34 on Denver, or could only score 13.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 12:52 PM

Right now - things look pretty balanced on the production of both teams.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 6141713)
I dunno, I can see Denver scoring 14 offensively, but add a few FGs and another Matt Light "Ole!" block that results in a fumble... :shrug: It wouldn't shock me if the Broncos put up 24, 27 points.

Ravens with #2 rated offense averaging 30'ish points and 430'ish yards of offense per game put up 21, only 14 of it by offense. I like Flacco more than Orton, and the Ravens' OLine more than Denvers. I also don't think any RAvens defender is nearly as good as Monsieur Suggs.

Finally, you're ignoring the fact that, unlike against the Ravens stellar defense, I expect the Pats to possess the ball for 35+ minutes against Denver, as they have against nearly every other team they have played this year. I think the Denver defense is performing over its head the first month here.

Quote:

The question, really, is going to be which Brady shows up (the off-target one of the first halves, or the more accurate Brady of the second halves). And which Patriots' O-line shows up. And whether or not the WRs catch all the passes or drop more of them. Depending on how all that goes, the Pats could hang 31 or 34 on Denver, or could only score 13.
If Welker and Moss play, we'll be fine. Game 1 was pathetic, as the offense couldnt' find it's rhythm with Brady back, etc. Next two games we didn't have Wes Welker, who helps make everything go in a big way.

I'm expecting to see teh Pats offense improve steadily from here out, assuming no serious injuries.

OLine did fine last week against the Ravens, other than the Suggs disaster.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 6141732)
Right now - things look pretty balanced on the production of both teams.

Yes. Both have one "lucky" win in their column from the first week of the year. I think the Patriots have played a higher caliber of opponent, however, though the Bengals are looking better this year than they have in the past, no doubt about it.

Any word on whether the teams are wearing their throwback uniforms? It would make some sense.

If it was later in the year, this game might get flexed to the night game, but I don't think they can do that until late Oct / early November.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 01:05 PM

Well, the funny thing about the NFL is you can't always use that logic...

Denver beat Cincy... Cincy beats Green Bay and the Steelers. So, Denver should beat those teams... Right?

I see where you're going, but surely you've seen enough football in your life that tells you just because the explosive Ravens failed to score more than 21 points as a team... that doesn't mean Denver can't hang 40 on the Patriots. Am I suggesting that happens? No, but it's every bit as likely as them struggling to just hit 14.

NE had the ball for 37 minutes vs the Bills...
NE had the ball for 39 minutes vs the Falcons ...
NE had the ball for just under 35 minutes vs the Ravens ...
NE had the ball for just under 30 minutes @ the Jets...

NE had nearly identical TOP vs the Bills and Ravens. What does it really mean?

The Jets played "lights out" defense and beat the Patriots ...

The Jets didn't put up flashy numbers, just focused on creating issues for Brady and limiting what they do rushing and with Moss. Sounds like the team in Denver.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141763)
Yes. Both have one "lucky" win in their column from the first week of the year. I think the Patriots have played a higher caliber of opponent, however, though the Bengals are looking better this year than they have in the past, no doubt about it.

Any word on whether the teams are wearing their throwback uniforms? It would make some sense.

If it was later in the year, this game might get flexed to the night game, but I don't think they can do that until late Oct / early November.

Luck is what you make of it... Denver dominated that game for 59 minutes. Anyway, yes this is a "Legacy" game (I think that's the title). So get ready for some ugly UPS color unis in Denver.

JD10367 10-05-2009 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141735)
Ravens with #2 rated offense averaging 30'ish points and 430'ish yards of offense per game put up 21, only 14 of it by offense.

On the other hand, Baltimore's numbers (like Denver's) might benefit from the opponents. The Ravens did play KC and Cleveland, and the schitzo Chargers.

If this were in Foxboro, it'd be a different story. But that thin air, and a few long drives... This might be the first game of the year the Pats don't have the time-of-possession edge in.

JD10367 10-05-2009 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 6141778)
The Jets played "lights out" defense and beat the Patriots ...

The Jets didn't put up flashy numbers, just focused on creating issues for Brady and limiting what they do rushing and with Moss. Sounds like the team in Denver.

I'm not making excuses, because coaching is part of the game, just like D, O, and ST. But it was evident in that game that, for whatever reasons--lack of Welker, Brady being rusty, Belichick not taking the reins, I dunno--the Pats' coaching kind of sucked. The offense was vanilla, the gameplan had few adjustments, receivers weren't holding on to the ball, etc.,.

Don't get me wrong. The Jets deserved to win. But just because the Jets beat the Pats in game 2 doesn't mean the Broncos can do the same thing in game 5, even if they run the same plays.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 6141805)
I'm not making excuses, because coaching is part of the game, just like D, O, and ST. But it was evident in that game that, for whatever reasons--lack of Welker, Brady being rusty, Belichick not taking the reins, I dunno--the Pats' coaching kind of sucked. The offense was vanilla, the gameplan had few adjustments, receivers weren't holding on to the ball, etc.,.

Don't get me wrong. The Jets deserved to win. But just because the Jets beat the Pats in game 2 doesn't mean the Broncos can do the same thing in game 5, even if they run the same plays.

All are very true... which is why I was saying just because the Ravens struggled to score more than 21 in total doesn't mean the Broncos will struggle to score 14, which is the picture he painted.

It's going to be a dog fight and a loss by Denver wouldn't shock me... I don't want anyone to confuse me for someone that thinks the Broncos have all of a sudden silenced the critics and are on the path to the playoffs.

Prior to week 1, I was pretty clear when I said that 3-1 was my expectation after 4 weeks. If they end this next stretch at 4-4... yes, it will be disappointing, but it won't be a shock to my system.

Denver still has a lot to prove... in part because of the Raiders and Browns being 2 of their wins.

I don't see this as an easy win for either team... and whether NE has Welker or not, they're formidable anywhere. I'm not taking anything for granted, but I don't think it's going to be easy for NE and it's more than just the location.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 01:50 PM

I was glancing at schedules and who some "top teams" have played... nobody really has played a stellar schedule yet.

Total wins by the teams they've faced:

Falcons = 4 (2 of 2 wins vs Miami & Carolina)
Ravens = 5 (2 of 3 wins vs KC and CLE)
Denver = 6 (2 of 4 wins vs Oak and CLE)
Patriots = 9 wins (2 of 3 wins vs Bills and Falcons)

Each of those teams has had 2 wins vs teams considered to be spare...

The Jets (I think have played the toughest schedule with 8 wins total), but 1 win was vs TN. The Bills have only defeated the Bucs, but they've also played the Pats, Saints.

What does all this mean? I really dunno... :drool: ... only wanted to point out that Denver isn't alone with the soft looking schedule through 4 games.

BY1401 10-05-2009 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 6141799)
This might be the first game of the year the Pats don't have the time-of-possession edge in.

Time of possession is overrated.

DaFace 10-05-2009 01:50 PM

What a strange board this is when we have a full-fledged discussion going on between multiple fans of other teams about a game that has nothing to do with the Chiefs. :hmmm:

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 6141904)
What a strange board this is when we have a full-fledged discussion going on between multiple fans of other teams about a game that has nothing to do with the Chiefs. :hmmm:

Well, if Denver loses to NE and KC defeats Dallas... you're only 3 back... :hmmm:

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141696)
I admit I'll be surprised if you can score 20 on the Patriots defense, and I'll be surprised if the Patriots can't score at least 21 against the Broncos.

I'll say 24-14 or somesuch, Patriots.

Except our offense is just as good as yours and our Defense is better than yours, but whatever. Our running game is definately better than yours. You guys will win walking away.

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 6141904)
What a strange board this is when we have a full-fledged discussion going on between multiple fans of other teams about a game that has nothing to do with the Chiefs. :hmmm:

It's a testiment to how good this board is.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141928)
Except our offense is just as good as your as our Defense is better than yours, but whatever. You guys will win walking away.

http://www.vosaclub.org/uploads/huh.jpg

Garcia Bronco 10-05-2009 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 6141940)

Kyboard battey almost dea.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 02:02 PM

Here's what Denver wants to avoid... making this a Brady vs Orton air show. I don't think Orton can win that battle right now. Yes, he has a lot of weapons... but they're not as "in step" with each other as Brady and his weapons.

The defense needs consistent pressure on Brady... they have to do this in order to have a chance.

listopencil 10-05-2009 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141563)
I haven't watched the play 10 times from different angles or anything. From the 2 or 3 times I saw it replayed during the game, it appeared he simply went low without any good reason, admittedly not hitting Brady hard, but with potentially malicious intent. Talk up here is for Suggs to expect to receive a fine from the league.

What redeeming circumstances did I miss, other than that he didn't, in fact, blow out anyone's knee?

Honestly, it didn't look malicious at all. It seems to me he was attacking the spot Brady was in when he lunged, and Brady moved back. And that's why I question the call. It's true that you can't hit that area of the body. But it wasn't a "hit". The guy barely made contact as he was moving forward. The refs can't expect a 300 pound man to magically levitate just because Tom Brady wants to throw the ball.

Just Passin' By 10-05-2009 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141928)
Except our offense is just as good as yours and our Defense is better than yours, but whatever. Our running game is definately better than yours. You guys will win walking away.

KnowMo, is that you?

JD10367 10-05-2009 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141928)
Except our offense is just as good as yours and our Defense is better than yours, but whatever. Our running game is definately better than yours.

You've beaten two creampuffs in Cleveland and Oakland. You beat the Bengals by a whopping 12-7 and that took a lucky bounce. You did beat Dallas by a TD... then again, Dallas is a 2-2 paper tiger with two wins over winless teams (Carolina and Tampa Bay).

The Pats beat two opponents (Atlanta and Baltimore) who are head-and-shoulders better than what you've faced so far.

If you want to say that the Broncos are exceeding expectations, fine. That the D is performing well, fine. That Orton is managing the offense well, that Knowshon has been solid so far, that Brandon Marshall is a top-flight WR... okay. But please don't act like the Broncos are some sort of unstoppable powerhouse simply because they've beaten a few pushovers so far. Your offense is as good as New England's? Ooookay.

It's pretty simple. New England, San Diego, Baltimore, Pittsburgh. All teams expected to make the playoffs. Two doing pretty good, two struggling but still dangerous. Beat TWO of those four in the next month, and I'll be impressed. Hell, beat ONE and I'll concede the Broncos might win the AFC West.

Amnorix 10-05-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6141928)
Except our offense is just as good as yours and our Defense is better than yours, but whatever.


Wait, what?

listopencil 10-05-2009 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 6142155)
It's pretty simple. New England, San Diego, Baltimore, Pittsburgh. All teams expected to make the playoffs. Two doing pretty good, two struggling but still dangerous. Beat TWO of those four in the next month, and I'll be impressed. Hell, beat ONE and I'll concede the Broncos might win the AFC West.

This is an important game coming up, the first one I picked us to lose as a matter of fact. But the following week is the big one. We play at San Diego. Win that one and we have a good chance of winning the division.

Mile High Mania 10-05-2009 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 6142155)
You've beaten two creampuffs in Cleveland and Oakland. You beat the Bengals by a whopping 12-7 and that took a lucky bounce. You did beat Dallas by a TD... then again, Dallas is a 2-2 paper tiger with two wins over winless teams (Carolina and Tampa Bay).

The Pats beat two opponents (Atlanta and Baltimore) who are head-and-shoulders better than what you've faced so far.

If you want to say that the Broncos are exceeding expectations, fine. That the D is performing well, fine. That Orton is managing the offense well, that Knowshon has been solid so far, that Brandon Marshall is a top-flight WR... okay. But please don't act like the Broncos are some sort of unstoppable powerhouse simply because they've beaten a few pushovers so far. Your offense is as good as New England's? Ooookay.

It's pretty simple. New England, San Diego, Baltimore, Pittsburgh. All teams expected to make the playoffs. Two doing pretty good, two struggling but still dangerous. Beat TWO of those four in the next month, and I'll be impressed. Hell, beat ONE and I'll concede the Broncos might win the AFC West.

If I'm not mistaken... 1 of ATL's 2 wins is against Carolina (winless) and two of Baltimore's 3 wins are against KC and Cleveland (winless). Again, they were both 'expected' to do well, but they haven't played a bunch of powerhouses either. Just sayin...

Garcia Bronco 10-11-2009 09:25 PM

:)

Pioli Zombie 10-11-2009 09:34 PM

Like I said, the Patriots are trying to make their way back. They are a consistant contender that's in transition but they don't have the swagger they did 2001 thru 2007. Not to say it won't be there in December. But things are a bit off. My hats off to the Broncos.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mile High Mania 10-11-2009 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6141735)
Finally, you're ignoring the fact that, unlike against the Ravens stellar defense, I expect the Pats to possess the ball for 35+ minutes against Denver, as they have against nearly every other team they have played this year. I think the Denver defense is performing over its head the first month here.

It was a good game... could have gone either way. Denver lost the turnover battle, but they dominated in every other category (Time of possession, 1st Downs, Total Yds, Passing / Rushing Yds, etc).

I was happily surprised and it was great to see the emotion explode at the end of the game. Wow, 5-0... never expected it and now 9 wins is a more realistic option (Oak and KC play in Denver, Denver plays @ KC and @ WAS - those are 4 potential wins, not to mention SD in Denver is always a reality).

It's amazing how much differently this season has gone so far... but, it is still early and I will not let myself get all caught up in thinking ahead. It's all about @ SD now. I've seen monumental collapses before... so, one game at a time.

Garcia Bronco 10-11-2009 09:57 PM

Yeah...over it's head. 7 points allowed in the second half all year just doesn't seem like an accident.

Quesadilla Joe 10-12-2009 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco (Post 6164097)
:)

:D


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