Quick car question... (helpful answers get boatloads of casino cash!)
 

I think I know the answer to this, but would like to hear other opinions...

2000 Saab 9-3SE - quick squealing noise then belt snaps... car is driven 2-3 minutes longer and then belt is replaced after checking that all the pulleys turn freely ... fast forward a couple of days and 150 miles ... at highway speed, check engine light comes on and belt squeals... driver pulls over and checks belt and all appears fine .. checks oil and running low (overdue for a change) so adds 2 qts.... starts engine and checks belt again... all pulleys are moving smoothly EXCEPT crank pulley and tensioner pulley seem to have some vibration. Restarts car and "thinks" it is running smoother and no squeals ... but engine light still on...

(all of this info was gathered over the phone)

What is your diagnosis?

Belt too loose.

Engine light separate problem.

I would tend to agree except that the light came on and the belt starting squealing at the exact same time... hard to imagine they are seperate issues.

Borrow a code checker from an auto parts place. Should be an OBD-II vehicle, so you can at least start on what's causing lighting the CEL. You may have a water pump that is siezing-- they are sometimes integral to the crank timing belt. Is it a 4 cyl turbo?

Gonna get the code checked tonight... but was hoping for some input before then...

It is a 4-cyl 2.0L turbo and I will attach a diagram of the pulley layout.

1-grooved idler pulley
2-tensioner pulley
3-alternator
4-crank pulley/harmonic balancer
5-water pump
6-power steering pump
7-a/c compressor

I wonder if the code is from the alternator not charging when the belt was slipping? Is the idler pulley locking up?

Blinker fluid is low.

idler pulley looks fine

water pump, power steering pump, alternator and a/c all look fine as well

crank and tensioner show vibration (I would expect the tensioner to show some if the crank is... since the tensioner is the next pulley down the line from it)

Also... there is a seperate battery light that shows when battery isn't charging.

also, I am not the one driving it and am getting this info over the phone from a girl... so take it for what it's worth... I ASSUME there are no more symptoms but as of now the only FACTS are those I have laid out AND that no other indicators or gauges are out of norm (including temp which I had her keep an eye on)

Are all your belts lubed?

If the belt squeals, it's because it's too loose or because one of the pulleys its routed around are locking up. Could be a bearing in one of the pulleys intermittently seizing. Since it squealed before and then the belt snapped, I'd lean towards a bad bearing somewhere.

Not sure what the engine light is from. Maybe some sort of sensor on the crank, PS, AC or ALT pulleys?

Nah, sounds like a muffler bearing acting up.

You're getting closer to what I think it is...

...and belt could squal from glazing, being loose, pully ceasing OR rubbing up against something...

I knew a girl like that once...

Anyone else want to make a guess before I throw out my hypothesis?

The first time it could be glazing, but since it squealed with the new belt, you have to throw that out.

yep and the "old" belt was only about 18 months old... on that note, so is the A/C compressor and idler pulley... I would rule out "wear" on any of those items...

I checked the tensioner on Sunday and it APPEARS to have enough belt tension.. I wouldn't completely rule it out as the problem... but it is low low low on the list.

I'd say the belt is loose and theres only one way to check. Have said person at the other end of the phone grab hold of the belt tightly while another person starts up the car. If they are able to keep the belt from turning then its too loose.

it's always best to run this test in the parking lot of a hospital. FYI.

You can rule out the crank pulley too. If it's seizing, then there are major problems. So that leaves the PS and ALT. :hmmm:

ROFLROFL

:bravo:

AH, but what if the harmonic balancer is no longer doing it's job? That is my initial guess, given that A)the crank pulley was observed to be vibrating/shaking quite abit and none of the rest were and B) the next wheel down the line is the tensioner and since it has no grooves to keep the belt aligned... the belt could easily be slipping off to the side due to the vibrations and rubbing up against something(I was actually told that the belt looked "not quite centered" on this pulley)... I imagine the engine light is due to the harmonic balancer being out (best guess until I get it read) or possibly when the belt was squealing and running slow .. another system was affected and popped the light on.

Plausible?

I don't know what a Saab harmonic balancer looks like, but if something like this is going on, then yeah, you could be right.

http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_...c_balancer.jpg

yup, it is very similar. The key is that if belts are breaking in succession, something is obviously either ceasing or causing the belt to grind down... I think this is more likely than anything ceasing since the a/c compressor is new and the alternator light isn't coming on and the power steering pump and water pump are RARE items to cease on that car... especially when it only has 70k miles on it.

If this isn't the problem, I am thinking water pump is next most likely... but so far, no heat issues being reported.

Any dissent? Anyone think I am talking crazy?

Last chance to guess at what the check engine light is! She is pulling into auto parts place now to have it checked!

Anyone with the right answer(or close) wins casino cash!

i agree that the isolator could be the problem with the belt, BUT usuallt it will make a knocking sound. when the balancer wobbles it COULD throw the crank sensor out of sync OR could throw a knock sensor code.


and i've never worked on this model before. just a guess from your limited info. if it was the Water pump you should be able to wobble that pulley also

For the sake of casino cash, I'll guess the CEL is unrelated to the belt issues. My guess is MAF sensor.

pretty common problem

CSF - crankshaft sensor looks to be the winner.

p1337- saab specific code, so I'm not exactly sure on it... plus she told me p1337 initially then said p13334? Anyone who is more well versed in OBD codes care to explain this? Are there even 6 digit codes? Would love someone to look this up (not google/online but for real) and tell me for sure.

www.saabcentral.com
Best Saab forums on the planet.


I'm pretty knowledgable when it comes to the '03-'08 9-3ss models... but for previous models I can't tell ya a thing.

i dont think i can find the actual saab codes i will go check, BUT if the balancer has a problem thats whats wrong, not the sensor. the reluctor on the balancer usually is what triggers the sensor on that type of balancer

code p0337 is a crank sensor code. probably NOT related to the belt problem from the looks of it

Here is a good thread with every OBD fault code.

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...337#post858528

I think the balancer is iffy and that tripped the code and was causing the belt issue. Spoke to the shop and they concurred. About to call dealer to confirm.

Unfortunatley that doesn't have the p1 codes... the Saab specific ones.

SAAB's are MONEY PITS! Sell the MF before it drains you dry. That is the best advise you well get in this thread.

yeah thats what i was thinking myself, just didnt have the heart to say it:D

ROFL
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Bwana has no heart for failure . He tells it like it is !

Actually.. I have never had any problems and this is my 2nd one... BUT that being said, I tend to be GM loyal and now that GM no longer owns Saab... I may just restore my '66 Impala up to form and use that instead.... but if that happens... it won't be until spring at the earliest.

ooohhh shit. a 66? nice. i have always been a little partial to the 65 myself. and then the 62. but i have built many 66s in my time

A '66? I assume you don't take that out in the winter? Up here in New England the road salt eats cars up. I rarely see anything before 1980 on the streets...

shit when i lived in kc i had a 65 i drove every day. for years

Here is a pic of an identical one.. Marina Blue with white interior...

http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/du...te/5134936.jpg


... and living in Austin, we don't have winters... so no worries.

I had a metallic blue '66 with blue interior and front bucket seats. I loved that car.

Now you're talking, sweet ride. :thumb: