Whitlock has a great idea
 

9. Fixing the roughing-Tom Brady-penalty crisis is rather easy.



As I did when I first addressed this problem at the beginning of the season, I'm not going to play the race card. I'm going to continue to ignore the fact that Donovan McNabb had a rib cracked while laying in the end zone and there was no penalty called, and I'm going to ignore the unpenalized illegal hits leveled against Off-The-Marcus Russell and David Garrard last week.

This is not an issue driven by race. It's a star power issue, no different from the NBA officiating that protected Michael Jordan the second half of his career and gave Dwyane Wade and the Miami Heat an NBA title.

Refs pamper the big stars. Refs are humans just like you and me. They get caught up in Brady's fame.

Ray "Avon Barksdale" Lewis and Ed "Stringer Bell" Reed had every right to blast the refs following the Patriots-Ravens game. There were two unwarranted roughing-the-Brady penalties that contributed to New England TD drives. One of the penalties occurred on third and nine and Brady threw incomplete. And the other occurred on second and 11 and Brady completed a 1-yard pass.

The "hits" didn't justify a flag and they certainly didn't justify 15-yard penalties. Why do quarterbacks deserve more protection than a punter or a kicker? Why can't there be a 5-yard running-into-the-Brady call and a 15-yard roughing-the-Brady call?

A hand accidently slapping a QB in the helmet isn't worthy of 15 yards. A defender falling down and grazing a QB's knee isn't worth 15 yards.

And there needs to be a common-sense official placed in a television replay booth. He needs the authority to stop the game and review any and every 15-yard penalty. Look at the excessive-celebration penalty that ruined the Georgia-LSU college game. A common-sense ref in the booth could've stopped that.

If you eliminated the TV timeouts after punts, kickoffs and timeouts primarily taken to stop the clock, a more active replay ref wouldn't interfere with the flow of an NFL game or prevent it from concluding in three hours or less.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1...are-NFL-Truths

I was with him up until here.

Yeah, I'm sure the NFL will just voluntarily flush all the ad revenue from all these commercial breaks.

"If you eliminated the TV timeouts after punts, kickoffs and timeouts primarily taken to stop the clock, a more active replay ref wouldn't interfere with the flow of an NFL game or prevent it from concluding in three hours or less."

Yeah, they won't be doing that.

Yours,
CBS, NBC and FOX

my solution is that there should be different levels of roughing the passer.

for the minor hits, 5 yrds and for the severe hits 15 yrds. it might help a little so that some of these ridiculous calls could be lowered to 5 yrds and not keep a drive going. just a thought

The problem with that is they just took this away from the face mask rule this year, no more 5 or 15 yarder just 15 yard penalty now so that there isn't a judgement call for the refs.

Same thing on the QB's they would say, unfortunately. It sucks. I think it's ruining the game and the phone call the next day to say were sorry dosen't really cut it. Get it right the first time boys.

the rule book is an ever changing thing in the NFL and they definately need to get this right. i mean its to the point where even people who dont watch the game that much think its a joke. my girlfriend said while watching the raiders game, on the roughing the passer on j.russell, "what a joke he's a BIG boy he can take a hit". and the most she knows is which team is on offense and which team is on defense.

umm ... you just did, jackass.


but yes, the NFL should adopt they college way of doing reviews. Then they could expand possible review situations without slowing down the game.

The NFL has the money to give the booth review the equipment to do the reviews quickly and quietly without slowing down the game at all.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=215771 Hey, Orange. Read this when you get time...

Mybe they should have pink flags on the qb...just like flag football. Its really gotten ridiculous.

Just add 15 yard penalties to the list of reviewable offenses. Same replay rules apply as they do today. Problem solved.

Mike Wright got the same penalty called on him that Ngata did, and for doing pretty much the same thing, but that doesn't help Whitlock's argument so he leaves it out. What happened was that the rules were enforced by the tightest calling officiating crew in the NFL. That's it, nothing more. None of the calls were wrong, they were just light contact rather than severe. They were no worse than some of the illegal contact calls have been this season, but they're getting more play in the media.

These calls aren't the problem as long as they're made consistently within each game. It's the blown calls (See Mr. Page for an example) that ruin games.

This. But, I don't think you can apply logic to NFL Rules, or its committee.

Have the ****ing commercials while the ref is reviewing it. I dont need to see a ****ing zebra looking in a camera for ****ing 2 minutes while the annoucers try to fill in dead air the entire ****ing time. knock those commercials out baby

And they could combine Breast Cancer Awareness Month with Cervical Cancer Awareness Month every time they toss a pink flag because someone sniffed around too close to Terrific Tom's Tastacular Vagina. Make it happen.

I've already read it and responded in a different thread.

It changes nothing. I never claimed Page's hit was "helmet-to-helmet." Quite the contrary, in fact. Please show me - since no one else can - where exactly the NFL "apologized." Or for that matter, where they said it wasn't a personal foul. I'm all eyes.

Note: "NFL apologizes to Page" WRONG. That's GoChiefs' line.

The actual quote for your easy reference:

Safety Jarrad Page said the NFL sent the Chiefs a letter acknowledging a mistake was made when Page was penalized for unnecessary roughness in last week’s loss to the Giants.

Page broke up a pass over the middle for wide receiver Steve Smith but was penalized for making helmet to helmet contact with Smith. Replays showed Page actually used his shoulder to hit Smith in the chest.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1496343.html Page, himself said the Chiefs recieved a letter from the league.

Here's that other discussion for your edification:

Yes - clarifying the call.

He DIDN'T say what exactly the call should have been.

The simple fact - it doesn't have to be "helmet-to-helmet" to be a personal foul.

You're a complete douchenozzle. Go lick your daddy's taint...

I would but he left it all over your Momma's face and I ain't touchin' that.

I don't know why you cannot admit you were wrong.

Because the NFL rulebook says I'm right.


Rule Change No. 3: Unnecessary roughness has been expanded to include shots to a defenseless receiver's head.
The amendment states, a penalty will be called "If the initial force of the contact by a defender's helmet, forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless receiver who is catching or attempting to catch a pass."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/archiv...ate=03-31-2009

"As I did when I first addressed this problem at the beginning of the season, I'm not going to play the race card. I'm going to continue to ignore the fact that Donovan McNabb had a rib cracked while laying in the end zone and there was no penalty called, and I'm going to ignore the unpenalized illegal hits leveled against Off-The-Marcus Russell and David Garrard last week."

Refs pamper the big stars. Refs are humans just like you and me. They get caught up in Brady's fame.


Well you just did Whitlock.....you're trying to tell me that McNabb isn't a star in the NFL?!?!

Well then what about the Page hit do you think justified a personal foul penalty?

It wasn't helmet to helmet, it was a legal hit.....so where's the foul in this case? Tackling too hard?

See #22 above. That's the new rule in effect this year.

I'm not advocating FOR or AGAINST it - it simply IS the rule.

The ref judged Page's hit was in the "neck area" and threw the flag. That's MY interpretation of what happened.

I assume that IF the NFL actually backed off the penalty in their letter - instead of just clarifying - I assume they must now be saying it wasn't the "neck area."

Otherwise, they may as well just tear up the new rule.

You act like it's fact that he hit him in the neck. I don't think he did. And don't bother posting the video, I've seen it. The refs weren't calling a shoulder to the neck penalty.

Did they say that?

It really pisses me off when a ref knows they got the call wrong but calls it anyways.

As far as I know, the announcers only ever said "helmet-to-helmet."

That is probably why the letter was issued - the Chiefs' inquiry to the NFL also probably said the same thing. Maybe that's the words the ref actually used, which would be wrong. I still think it was a proper personal foul even if he got the wording wrong.

When the NFL makes a new rule, they train the officials by going over videos of when to apply the penalty. They don't concentrate on the wording. I'm sure the ref thought the play looked like plays the league taught him were penalties now.

No. YOU are wrong in this assessment. Page did not contact Smiths neck area.

I like Colin Cowherd's take on this stuff: If you see it call it, but don't call something that didn't happen.


Give the benefit of the doubt to the players unless it is obvious.


The refs are way to aggressive on calls, IMO.

That's really a baseless assumption

Why is it baseless?

"Not a helmet to helmet hit" is the only detail Teicher mentions. Why is it baseless to conclude that's what the inquiry was about?

Whitlock cant play any card BUT the race card. He sure as hell can play the "knowledge about anything" card.

Hes as useless as Paris Hilton explaining physics.

Cant play.

my bad.

Paris isn't good at explaining physics, she is better at applying physics:


When "it" comes up, she must go down.....

It's baseless because you have no idea if the letter from the NFL was clarifying the language or simply saying the call was wrong period, and should not have been made. You're saying words like "probably" based on nothing. Therefore it's baseless.

The Ngata call was okay - hands to the head.

The call against Suggs was a joke. It was incidental contact.

Okay. So where does this whole "apology" nonsense come from then?

Nothing.

Therefore it's baseless.

They wouldn't have issued an apology if they were clarifying the language.

This. Plus its funny too.

This. Oh, and Orange is an idiot and wrong...

They DIDN'T issue an apology.

Where the hell do you get that?

Quote me someone NOT named GoChiefs.

Hell yes. Rep

He hit him in the chest with his shoulder. It was a bad call. They sent a letter saying the unnecessary roughness call was a mistake. I just can't imagine what you would need to convince you. At this point you MUST just be trolling.

Are you a Bronco fan?

Show me the letter.

That's ALL it will take.

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Failing that, let's watch and see the rest of the year if that penalty continues to be called.

Yes.

Do you believe the NFL gives a rat's ass about keeping the little-franchise-that-couldn't (i.e. Chiefs) down?

Or maybe it was that particular ref who's a Broncos fan and was concerned that the 0-3 Chiefs would challenge for the Division title if they were less dominated by the Giants.

That doesn't matter. It's not a fact that Page hit him in the neck. Regardless of whether that happens in the future it will not affect this at all.
I'll go out on a limb and guess Page will not be fined by the NFL for the hit because the NFL knows the call was wrong.

Um no, all star. I'm talking about your personal perception of the incident as a Bronco fan.

Or, you could watch the ****ing gif of the actual hit that proves you are wrong.

ROFL You're right. Page probably lied about getting the letter so he could cover his ass. At least until the league fines him for his public lie. That would be in addition to the fine he should shortly be receiving for his defenseless receiver hit.

Page didn't lie. All he said was that the NFL said it wasn't a helmet-to-helmet hit. He didn't claim there was an apology.

YOU guys have added all that.

And my point is that IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A HELMET-TO-HELMET HIT TO BE A PERSONAL FOUL ANYMORE.


I don't see what's so hard for some of you to understand about that.


.................................................................................................... ......................................................................

Why it's important to Page:

2008 NFL Fine Schedule

Flagrant Personal Foul
Suspension or fine; severity to be determined by degree of violation; the fine may be $10,000 or higher for first offense.

And you're adding that the NFL is saying it was helmet to neck.

You are one obtuse bitch. Why the **** would Page even mention this if it WAS NOT AN APOLOGY from the League. The officials made a mistake. That is why the Chiefs got a letter. ****!

FFS ...the letter, according to Page, said he shouldn't have been called for unnecessary roughness. The article goes on to explain what the video showed.

Regardless, even with the criteria you yourself posted, it was a clean hit. We all (most) get that it doesn't have to be helmet to helmet, but a shoulder to chest hit is completely clean and it was a shit call.

Apparently you enjoy posting on the message board of the little franchise that couldn't more than a Broncos board.

Wrong. SHOULDER to NECK AREA.

Don't twist it.

CHEST is NOT the NECK area.

The chest is the neck area?? What about the abdomen? That can be as close as a foot from the neck! WATCH OUT!!!

Definitely. Haven't found a Broncos board worth posting on.

Why is that a problem for you?

Either way you're adding things that aren't there. Don't twist what? That you're pretending you know the intent of the referee when making the call and the letter from the NFL when saying it was incorrect?

Bronco fan.

Because your allegiance to your team is clouding your judgement here in this case and causing you to behave like a jackass.

what a coinkydink...!

I'm guessing that the ref made a call based on what he thinks the rule is.

I'm CERTAIN he didn't make a call based on trying to hand the Giants the game.

Don't get pissy because it was DJ Williams who had the most obvious and flagrant hit of the season so far to date against Roy Williams. Page's hit was textbook on a receiver who had possession of the ball. That's why the league sent over a "sorry 'bout our f'up" letter to the team. However, I'll be shocked if Williams isn't donating some money to his favorite charity this week.

I don't think he hates the Chiefs or anything. I just think he's incompetent. If you're a ref, you don't call what you don't see. It's as basic as that. Obviously he didn't see it because it didn't happen. If, as you say, he thought a shoulder to chest hit was illegal, he should be fired immediately.

Alrighty, then.

Let's watch for that. D.J. is going to be fined HOW MUCH?

... for the hit that wasn't a personal foul.
... that the Cowboys and their fans aren't even complaining about.

[QUOTE=orange;6151848]I'm guessing that the ref made a call based on what he thinks the rule is.

I'm CERTAIN he didn't make a call based on trying to hand the Giants the game.[/QUOTE]

Who's twisting things now? When did I ever say anything remotely like that?
You keep guessing you know what the ref thought, and assuming you know how he was applying the rule. You don't.

I'm responding to more people than you, ya'know.

Let's take Saccopoo above, for example.

Do you think he may be letting his Chiefs' allegiance distort his view a bit?

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I'll say this for you - you're about the only one here who admits the Teicher article doesn't say what the Teicher article doesn't say.

Too bad you don't have the courage of your convictions to say that directly to other Chiefs fans.

The ref meant to call shoulder to neck, but even knowing the crowd would be livid, he just chose not to explain why he was making the call to the crowd.

I'm not sure what the ref actually said. I never heard his actual call.

I was listening to Mitch and Lenny; and the replays have Deion Sanders on the voiceover; and they show Haley objecting animatedly. And they are ALL pointing out Page used his shoulder, not his head! As if it mattered!

I see you have stopped trying to defend the call as correct. That's refreshing. Still, seizing on the minor point that people are calling it an apology when perhaps it's only an admission that they were wrong is silly.

Once again, you have lept to an unwarranted conclusion.

I have made NO such remission. I still say the call was right. I still say the Teicher article is completely unclear as to whether the league now says there should have been a penalty.

I HAVE allowed that IF the League has backed off, it could ONLY BE because they've decided it wasn't the neck area. Be that as it may, it was close enough to force the ref to make a judgement call. A smarter play would not do that.

What's the point? The hit was below the shoulder on a receiver with possession of the ball. It was a bad call. Period.

And I don't give a crap if Williams didn't get a flag or the Cowboy fans aren't bitching about it. His hit on Williams is the exact same hit/reason why Page got flagged. It was a hit on a defenseless receiver who never had a chance on the ball. It resulted in injury. However, as you've had Lynch on your team for the past couple of years, I imagine that you've steeled yourself against other teams complaining about head shots/late hits/hits on defenseless receivers, and have come up with a litany of excuses to justify them. e.g., Williams hit on Williams, "a smarter player wouldn't do that."

It clearly states that it was not to the head or neck area. It was to the CHEST. Therefore, they were wrong. They sent a letter admitting to the fact they they made a mistake in their calling of the game. Its as simple as that. Maybe they didn't appologize for it. But they did admit to making a bad call.

:spock::rolleyes: YOU are impossible. I can't argue with crazy people. I'm out...

The call was wrong and the NFL admitted it in their letter. If the call was right Page would be getting a fine. No fine no foul.

This is not correct. All Unnecessary Roughness penalties don't draw a fine - only flagrant ones. I posted the point a few posts up.

Pretty much. Time to move on.