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Micjones 12-16-2009 06:22 PM
Advising a friend.
 
So there's this girl at my job who is currently having a Hell of a time with her car dealership. It's one of those "buy here, pay here" lots. Her last car was repo'd after she missed a couple payments so she's been scrambling to find reliable transportation. Turns out that she moved a bit too quickly and took a flyer on a 2002 Ford that has upwards of 100K miles on it. A car that also brings with it a financial responsibility of right around $10,000. Obviously she's going to come out on the losing end of the deal. In all likelihood...the car will shoot craps long before she sees the light at the end of that contract.

So she tells me she's going to ask the dealership to refund both her first few payments and the initial down payment she remitted when she bought the car. Getting that money back is her end game.

I'm trying to talk some sense into her and help her realize that getting that money back at the expense of having this reported as another repo on your credit isn't a fair trade-off.

Am I wrong to suggest to her that the dealership is under NO legal responsibility to let her out of that contract?

She swears that she's going to get another car with an even LESS reputable lot. I tell her that they're going to see the open car loan and tell her to hit the bricks.

She's one of those people who talks her way out of everything with customer service personnel. But those are significantly smaller battles. Removal of NSF fees, refunds on hotel stays, etc. She's convinced she's going to win this fight. I think she's in BIG trouble.

Am I off-base here?

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:24 PM
You're spot on, IMO.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:25 PM
I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty damn sure that her contract has an "as is" disclaimer that ultimately protects the interests of the dealership FIRST.

Bane 12-16-2009 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6352857)
You're spot on, IMO.
I 2nd that.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:26 PM
Also, in with the first "A GM with 100K miles? That car may go tits up before the end of the year, much less the end of the contract" joke.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:27 PM
It's the NFL equivalent of a 30-year old RB.
Generally nothing good happens after you reach that mark.

BigMeatballDave 12-16-2009 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352849)

So she tells me she's going to ask the dealership to refund both her first few payments and the initial down payment she remitted when she bought the car. Getting that money back is her end game.
Heh, they're going to tell her to pound sand...

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352862)
I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty damn sure that her contract has an "as is" disclaimer that ultimately protects the interests of the dealership FIRST.
I'm not an attorney, either.

But common sense tells me that a contract from a "buy here, pay here" dealership is going to be full of provisions that protects the dealership, and have none that are in the interests of the buyer.

Mr. Flopnuts 12-16-2009 06:29 PM
LOL She has no ****ing idea what she's doing. I'm sorry to laugh Mic but there's not a damn thing she can do. She's not getting her money back, and it's stupid to even think you can. She signed the papers, the deal is done. They'll take the car when she doesn't pay and keep her money. Then they'll sue her for the balance after "selling the car at auction" for about $500.

She's ****ed way worse than she knows if she goes down this road. Mark my words, she goes through with it, this will be the most expensive lesson she's learned to this point of her life.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefDave (Post 6352873)
Heh, they're going to tell her to pound sand...
She INSISTS that they're going to give her the money back.
I seriously doubt that even that happens, but it wouldn't matter in the long run. They're going to report that as a repossession.

And she'll wind up with two in less than 6 months.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6352875)
I'm not an attorney, either.

But common sense tells me that a contract from a "buy here, pay here" dealership is going to be full of provisions that protects the dealership, and have none that are in the interests of the buyer.
EXACTLY.

Otherwise people would pull this kind of shit with dealerships all the time.
The dealership isn't in the business of doing the buyer any favors.

luv 12-16-2009 06:31 PM
Just don't offer to cosign.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6352876)
LOL She has no ****ing idea what she's doing. I'm sorry to laugh Mic but there's not a damn thing she can do. She's not getting her money back, and it's stupid to even think you can. She signed the papers, the deal is done. They'll take the car when she doesn't pay and keep her money. Then they'll sue her for the balance after "selling the car at auction" for about $500.

She's ****ed way worse than she knows if she goes down this road. Mark my words, she goes through with it, this will be the most expensive lesson she's learned to this point of her life.
I agree totally. That's why I'm trying to talk her out of it before she gets in any deeper. I hate to see her going through this, but this is a situation that can be avoided if she heeds sound advice.

Mr. Flopnuts 12-16-2009 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352888)
I agree totally. That's why I'm trying to talk her out of it before she gets in any deeper. I hate to see her going through this, but this is a situation that can be avoided if she heeds sound advice.
Well, I've worked in credit for over a decade and I know that industry inside and out. No way she's getting her money back unless she has dirt on the owner. If that's the case, she better still get it in writing. Otherwise, she's going to get ****ed hard core by these guys. They're smoother than she is, I promise.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6352876)
LOL She has no ****ing idea what she's doing. I'm sorry to laugh Mic but there's not a damn thing she can do. She's not getting her money back, and it's stupid to even think you can. She signed the papers, the deal is done. They'll take the car when she doesn't pay and keep her money. Then they'll sue her for the balance after "selling the car at auction" for about $500.

She's ****ed way worse than she knows if she goes down this road. Mark my words, she goes through with it, this will be the most expensive lesson she's learned to this point of her life.
I've been biting my tongue, but he's right. She ****ed up huge by buying from one of these places, and she's about to make it worse.

Then again, so does anyone else who buys from these lots.

I have a friend who used to work for one of these places, and finally grew a conscience and quit.

They'll keep every dime she's given them, and when she misses a payment, they'll take the car - and legally, there's nothing she can do.

Then they'll turn around and put that car back on their lot and sell it to the next sucker that walks in. These places make money hand over fist selling cars to begin with, and make even more money because in some cases, they sell the same car several times.

BigMeatballDave 12-16-2009 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv (Post 6352886)
Just don't offer to cosign.
He won't have to worry about that. Its a Buy Here Pay Here. Which means they finance, not a finance company. Those places will sell anyone a car.

Mr. Flopnuts 12-16-2009 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6352892)

Then they'll turn around and put that car back on their lot and sell it to the next sucker that walks in. These places make money hand over fist selling cars to begin with, and make even more money because in some cases, they sell the same car several times.
That's exactly why I put sell it at auction in quotations. They play the paperwork game and hold her on the hook for the delinquency balance, while being able to resell the same car on their own lot to the next sucker at the same rate. Used car sales is a helluva racket.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:36 PM
That's what I tried to tell her OTWP.

She doesn't have the upper hand here.
They'd be foolish to write a contract in such a way that it gave the buyer an advantage.

luv 12-16-2009 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6352892)
I've been biting my tongue, but he's right. She ****ed up huge by buying from one of these places, and she's about to make it worse.

Then again, so does anyone else who buys from these lots.

I have a friend who used to work for one of these places, and finally grew a conscience and quit.

They'll keep every dime she's given them, and when she misses a payment, they'll take the car - and legally, there's nothing she can do.

Then they'll turn around and put that car back on their lot and sell it to the next sucker that walks in. These places make money hand over fist selling cars to begin with, and make even more money because in some cases, they sell the same car several times.
Also why they target people with no/bad credit. Higher likelihood they'll get the car back. They get so much money upfront, and charge a buttload on interest.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:38 PM
Flops when she tries to get a car from this other dealership won't they see an open car loan and deny her application?

I'm hoping so... That'll be her saving grace.

luv 12-16-2009 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefDave (Post 6352895)
He won't have to worry about that. Its a Buy Here Pay Here. Which means they finance, not a finance company. Those places will sell anyone a car.
Yeah, I know. That was my slam on myself. Trying to make a joke.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv (Post 6352902)
Also why they target people with no/bad credit. Higher likelihood they'll get the car back. They get so much money upfront, and charge a buttload on interest.
It's insane. She's paying roughly $400 a month on this car.
It's almost 8 years old.

luv 12-16-2009 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352908)
It's insane. She's paying roughly $400 a month on this car.
It's almost 8 years old.
I'm guessing she might have gone five years on the loan? That's $24K. Even at four years, that's just over $19K. On an eight year old car.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352908)
It's insane. She's paying roughly $400 a month on this car.
It's almost 8 years old.
Jesus tapdancing Christ.

I just bought a brand new, $35K car, put no money down, and I'm not paying much more than that.

(Helps to have decent credit and be a smart consumer)

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv (Post 6352914)
I'm guessing she might have gone five years on the loan? That's $24K. Even at four years, that's just over $19K. On an eight year old car.
Probably.

A place like that is willing to go longer term. All about the $.

You'll rarely, if ever see a real dealership find someone to finance a used car for more than 3 years. Unless the car is only a year or two old, and/or is ridiculously low on milage.

wazu 12-16-2009 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv (Post 6352902)
Also why they target people with no/bad credit. Higher likelihood they'll get the car back. They get so much money upfront, and charge a buttload on interest.
Usually the down payment covers the value of the car. Once they get a single customer to make that payment, they can repossess it over and over again and resell it over and over again for a ridiculous profit margin. Only costs are collection/repossession. They'll do it until the car breaks down and might actually cost them something significant to repair.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 6352920)
Usually the down payment covers the value of the car. Once they get a single customer to make that payment, they can repossess it over and over again and resell it over and over again for a ridiculous profit margin. Only costs are collection/repossession. They'll do it until the car breaks down and might actually cost them something significant to repair.
This.

luv 12-16-2009 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6352918)
Probably.

A place like that is willing to go longer term. All about the $.

You'll rarely, if ever see a real dealership find someone to finance a used car for more than 3 years. Unless the car is only a year or two old, and/or is ridiculously low on milage.
I got a five year on my Lexus. It was 6 years old when I bought it, and it has about 65K miles. I was able to get it without a cosigner. My credit was halfway decent (this was before my stupidity). That thing will go forever though. A GM, not so much.

And mine is financed through a bank.

WilliamTheIrish 12-16-2009 06:55 PM
Mic, I recall a similar story (possibly a title loan(?) from you about another friend). Is this the same person?

Let her learn the lesson.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv (Post 6352929)
I got a five year on my Lexus. It was 6 years old when I bought it, and it has about 65K miles. I was able to get it without a cosigner. My credit was halfway decent (this was before my stupidity). That thing will go forever though. A GM, not so much.

And mine is financed through a bank.
That car is low mileage, and is a higher quality of car. Not surprised at all by your terms.

I guess my point was, you're not going to see a bank give out a 5 year, $10K car loan on a 1999 Malibu with 110K miles.

Micjones 12-16-2009 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish (Post 6352944)
Mic, I recall a similar story (possibly a title loan(?) from you about another friend). Is this the same person?

Let her learn the lesson.
No sir. Different girl.

I know I can't make the decision for her, but I'd really like to talk her out of doing something stupid.
This could be a VERY expensive lesson.

BigMeatballDave 12-16-2009 06:59 PM
Funny thing about GM cars. Back in '03 I bought a 1994 Corsica for $500. It had 150,000 miles on it. I drove it 2 yrs and had no problems with it and put 30,000 miles on it. At 180,000 miles I gave it to my sister while it was still running great and she locked up the engine.

MahiMike 12-16-2009 07:02 PM
What's another repo on her record?

luv 12-16-2009 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352950)
No sir. Different girl.

I know I can't make the decision for her, but I'd really like to talk her out of doing something stupid.
This could be a VERY expensive lesson.
Trust me, let it happen once, and she'll be much more likely to remember it. Some lessons, even expensive ones, need to be learned the hard way. You've done your part by trying to tell her.

If it happens twice, she's just an idiot.

WilliamTheIrish 12-16-2009 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352950)
No sir. Different girl.

I know I can't make the decision for her, but I'd really like to talk her out of doing something stupid.
This could be a VERY expensive lesson.
Mic, if she thinks for even a nanosecond that she's getting any $ back from a "Buy Here-Pay Here" joint, I don't think the individual has the smarts to be talked out of it.

Good luck, man.

Micjones 12-16-2009 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefDave (Post 6352951)
Funny thing about GM cars. Back in '03 I bought a 1994 Corsica for $500. It had 150,000 miles on it. I drove it 2 yrs and had no problems with it and put 30,000 miles on it. At 180,000 miles I gave it to my sister while it was still running great and she locked up the engine.
Another co-worker corrected me. It's actually a Ford.
Not sure there's really any difference though...
ROFL

Micjones 12-16-2009 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 6352958)
What's another repo on her record?
She had a brand new Kia repo'd about 4 months ago after getting behind on her payments.

kstater 12-16-2009 07:06 PM
I had an employee come in with a "new" truck from one of those places saying how he got a great deal. After running the numbers, he was paying 27% interest. And he was buying insurance from them as well.

Mr. Flopnuts 12-16-2009 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352905)
Flops when she tries to get a car from this other dealership won't they see an open car loan and deny her application?

I'm hoping so... That'll be her saving grace.
Unfortunately a lot of these buy here pay here places don't run credit reports. It's risk/reward. If they can fleece enough of a down payment, they can always go get the car when she's 1 day late. That's right, legally these places don't have to honor any kind of grace period. Some states require it, I don't know off hand if MO/KS are on the list.

luv 12-16-2009 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352968)
Another co-worker corrected me. It's actually a Ford.
Not sure there's really any difference though...
ROFL
There is. In my experience, Fords break down even sooner.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352970)
She had a brand new Kia repo'd about 4 months ago after getting behind on her payments.
She might have been better off buying a bus pass.

If she couldn't keep up with payments on a KIA, how is she going to keep up paying $400/mo for a POS?

Mr. Flopnuts 12-16-2009 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 6352920)
Usually the down payment covers the value of the car. Once they get a single customer to make that payment, they can repossess it over and over again and resell it over and over again for a ridiculous profit margin. Only costs are collection/repossession. They'll do it until the car breaks down and might actually cost them something significant to repair.
Oops. I missed this the first time around. This pretty much sums it all up right here.

greg63 12-16-2009 07:22 PM
She's an idiot.

Saul Good 12-16-2009 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352905)
Flops when she tries to get a car from this other dealership won't they see an open car loan and deny her application?

I'm hoping so... That'll be her saving grace.
These places don't care. Everybody who walks onto their lot is in the same situation. The worse your credit, the bigger your desperation. Desperate people make stupid financial decisions.

Her credit is so shot that another repo isn't going to make much difference. She needs to scrape together about $1,500 and buy a jalopy with a little life left in it for cash. If she can then save up $300 a month for two years (while putting the other $100 she was spending towards repairs), she can buy a $7,200 car for cash that will last her 5 years. Then she can put $400 a month into investments and have a nice little nest egg.

You don't have to make much to retire a millionaire if you stay away from car payments, credit cards, and whole life insurance.

Tylerthigpen!1! 12-16-2009 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353075)
You don't have to make much to retire a millionaire if you stay away from car payments, credit cards, and whole life insurance.
College kid here. What do you mean by whole life insurance? And do most used car lots run this business model?

Saul Good 12-16-2009 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerthigpen!1! (Post 6353104)
College kid here. What do you mean by whole life insurance? And do most used car lots run this business model?
Whole life insurance is life insurance that has an investment component attached to it. You've probably heard of the Gerber policies that grandparents buy on their grandkids. For $15 a month you get $10,000 of coverage. It builds up cash value, so the kid can cash it in when they turn 16 and get about $3,000 to buy a car or something.

If you just buy term life insurance on a kid that age, $10,000 costs about $1 a month. You can invest that other $14 and wind up with more than double that amount. Most of the money for a whole life policy goes towards fees and commissions.

Most used car lots don't use this business model, but the "buy here pay here" places all do. Generally, you find them near liquor stores, pawn shops and payday loan stores. Just stay away.

If you ever think about taking out a car loan, find a financial calculator online. Plug in the monthly payment, the loan duration, and the 8%-10% interest rate you could be earning on that money if you invest it instead of buy a car with it.

If you buy a $20,000 with nothing down and finance it at 9% for 5 years including 6% sales tax, your monthly payment comes to $441. If you then trade that car in and do it again every 5 years, you will purchase 8 cars from age 25 to age 65 for a total purchase price of $160,000.

If you had invested that same monthly payment at 9% during the same period of time, you would retire with $2,080,000. Only $185,000 was from money that you saved. The rest is interest.

Saul Good 12-16-2009 08:16 PM
Seeing as you are a college kid, if you start at age 20 instead of 25, that final number moves from $2,080,000 to $3,300,000.

If you put away $500 a month starting at age 20 and get 9% on your money, you can retire a millionaire at age 50 even if you never save another dime.

Mr. Flopnuts 12-16-2009 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerthigpen!1! (Post 6353104)
College kid here. What do you mean by whole life insurance? And do most used car lots run this business model?
If you're going to borrow money to buy a car, line up your own financing with a bank or credit union and go the lot to negotiate a cash price. If you can't do that, don't borrow money to buy a car. That's the best advice I can give on financing vehicles.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353171)
Seeing as you are a college kid, if you start at age 20 instead of 25, that final number moves from $2,080,000 to $3,300,000.

If you put away $500 a month starting at age 20 and get 9% on your money, you can retire a millionaire at age 50 even if you never save another dime.
Possibly a stupid question, but where are you getting 9% on your money?

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6353176)
If you're going to borrow money to buy a car, line up your own financing with a bank or credit union and go the lot to negotiate a cash price. If you can't do that, don't borrow money to buy a car. That's the best advice I can give on financing vehicles.
Yep.

Exactly what we did.

Used Edmonds and others to determine invoice pricing on the car/options we wanted.

Secured financing through a credit union.

Went to the dealership that had what we were looking for in stock and told them, we'll give you "X" amount for this car, or we're walking out.

Best of both worlds - a $35K car for under $30K, and a super-low interest rate - and I didn't have to waste time trying to get fleeced by the dealership's finance manager.

Saul Good 12-16-2009 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6353178)
Possibly a stupid question, but where are you getting 9% on your money?
Nowhere. Right now, I'm getting a hell of a lot more than that. The historical average of the stock market is about 12%. Inflation averages around 3%. That nets out at 9%.

Saul Good 12-16-2009 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6353189)
Yep.

Exactly what we did.

Used Edmonds and others to determine invoice pricing on the car/options we wanted.

Secured financing through a credit union.

Went to the dealership that had what we were looking for in stock and told them, we'll give you "X" amount for this car, or we're walking out.

Best of both worlds - a $35K car for under $30K, and a super-low interest rate - and I didn't have to waste time trying to get fleeced by the dealership's finance manager.
That's a lot of jack to lay down for a car. What'd you get?

Bwana 12-16-2009 08:34 PM
A. If she keeps it she will pay at least 3X what the car is worth. 10K.......wow.

B. There is no way in hell she is getting her money back. She signed the contract and is on the hook for the car. They may tell her nicely to her face no, but the minute she drives off, they will be cracking up and that's all they will be talking about for two days.

Sorry dude, she's boned.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353229)
That's a lot of jack to lay down for a car. What'd you get?
Really? I think 30K is pretty average - and we spend a bit less than that.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2aalbmh.jpg

Saul Good 12-16-2009 09:06 PM
I'm reeruned. What is that?

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353366)
I'm reeruned. What is that?
Volkswagen CC

Built on Passat frame, but longer and sleeker. Also has bucket seats in the back instead of a bench.

Rides as nice as my cousin's Mercedes E350 coupe, and at almost half the price.

ClevelandBronco 12-16-2009 09:12 PM
She's so far beyond ****ed she couldn't catch a bus to ****ed.

badgirl 12-16-2009 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352849)
So there's this girl at my job who is currently having a Hell of a time with her car dealership. It's one of those "buy here, pay here" lots. Her last car was repo'd after she missed a couple payments so she's been scrambling to find reliable transportation. Turns out that she moved a bit too quickly and took a flyer on a 2002 Ford that has upwards of 100K miles on it. A car that also brings with it a financial responsibility of right around $10,000. Obviously she's going to come out on the losing end of the deal. In all likelihood...the car will shoot craps long before she sees the light at the end of that contract.

So she tells me she's going to ask the dealership to refund both her first few payments and the initial down payment she remitted when she bought the car. Getting that money back is her end game.

I'm trying to talk some sense into her and help her realize that getting that money back at the expense of having this reported as another repo on your credit isn't a fair trade-off.

Am I wrong to suggest to her that the dealership is under NO legal responsibility to let her out of that contract?

She swears that she's going to get another car with an even LESS reputable lot. I tell her that they're going to see the open car loan and tell her to hit the bricks.

She's one of those people who talks her way out of everything with customer service personnel. But those are significantly smaller battles. Removal of NSF fees, refunds on hotel stays, etc. She's convinced she's going to win this fight. I think she's in BIG trouble.

Am I off-base here?

Lemon laws does not stand on a used car. IMO she can forget getting money back.

Bugeater 12-16-2009 09:30 PM
My only experience with a BHPH lot was when a girlfriend of mine bought a Chevette from one about 20 years ago. Sure she paid a bit more for it but she didn't have any credit, she ended up paying it off early, it actually worked out pretty well for her. Maybe they have become worse since then, I dunno. I know I would never go to one now, I always pay cash for my vehicles, your money goes so much farther that way.

Saul Good 12-16-2009 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6353384)
Volkswagen CC

Built on Passat frame, but longer and sleeker. Also has bucket seats in the back instead of a bench.

Rides as nice as my cousin's Mercedes E350 coupe, and at almost half the price.
Nice. You may have noticed that I'm not a car guy (especially for a 31 y/o). I've got a six figure income, and my wife's car and my car combined probably aren't worth $10,000. They both look nice and drive perfectly, though.

I just can't justify shelling out money for a new car. (To myself. Nothing against anyone else buying one.) I bought mine for about $17,500 when it was 3-4 years old with 36,000 miles. It was in mint condition and would have run close to $40,000 new. I figure I'll hang onto it for about 3 more years and unload it. If I can get $1,500 for it, that puts it at under $200 per month.

My wife bought her car right out of college for $8,000. We'll probably get rid of hers about the same time as mine. (By then, all of the people who can't afford their cash for clunkers car should be unloading them for a song.) Her cost will be about $100 a month.

Bugeater 12-16-2009 09:40 PM
I can't justify buying new cars either, the wife bought an '04 Camry last summer for $10K, the sticker price on it new was $25K, and while it has a couple very minor issues, there's no ****ing way in hell it was 2 1/2 times better when it was new than it is now.

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353474)
Nice. You may have noticed that I'm not a car guy (especially for a 31 y/o). I've got a six figure income, and my wife's car and my car combined probably aren't worth $10,000. They both look nice and drive perfectly, though.

I just can't justify shelling out money for a new car. (To myself. Nothing against anyone else buying one.) I bought mine for about $17,500 when it was 3-4 years old with 36,000 miles. It was in mint condition and would have run close to $40,000 new. I figure I'll hang onto it for about 3 more years and unload it. If I can get $1,500 for it, that puts it at under $200 per month.

My wife bought her car right out of college for $8,000. We'll probably get rid of hers about the same time as mine. (By then, all of the people who can't afford their cash for clunkers car should be unloading them for a song.) Her cost will be about $100 a month.
I understand, and admire that.

Our other car is paid off, and still in great shape, so we just have the one payment.

What I don't get are the people that have extravagant cars and can't afford them. You know, the people that live in a trailer park, but drive a $60,000 F-350 Dually with every available option to their job cleaning bathrooms in an office complex.

But hey, to each their own.

trndobrd 12-16-2009 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352849)
So there's this girl at my job who is currently having a Hell of a time with her car dealership. It's one of those "buy here, pay here" lots. Her last car was repo'd after she missed a couple payments so she's been scrambling to find reliable transportation. Turns out that she moved a bit too quickly and took a flyer on a 2002 Ford that has upwards of 100K miles on it. A car that also brings with it a financial responsibility of right around $10,000. Obviously she's going to come out on the losing end of the deal. In all likelihood...the car will shoot craps long before she sees the light at the end of that contract.

So she tells me she's going to ask the dealership to refund both her first few payments and the initial down payment she remitted when she bought the car. Getting that money back is her end game.

I'm trying to talk some sense into her and help her realize that getting that money back at the expense of having this reported as another repo on your credit isn't a fair trade-off.

Am I wrong to suggest to her that the dealership is under NO legal responsibility to let her out of that contract?

She swears that she's going to get another car with an even LESS reputable lot. I tell her that they're going to see the open car loan and tell her to hit the bricks.

She's one of those people who talks her way out of everything with customer service personnel. But those are significantly smaller battles. Removal of NSF fees, refunds on hotel stays, etc. She's convinced she's going to win this fight. I think she's in BIG trouble.

Am I off-base here?
The die is already cast. She has already signed the paperwork and taken the car off the lot. Let her go talk to the dealership.

Iowanian 12-16-2009 10:16 PM
It sounds like Your friend is a ****ing idiot.


An irresponsible one at that.


Maybe she should hang out with that guy friend who is Fing the other guy friend's wife....

Saul Good 12-16-2009 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6353503)
I understand, and admire that.

Our other car is paid off, and still in great shape, so we just have the one payment.

What I don't get are the people that have extravagant cars and can't afford them. You know, the people that live in a trailer park, but drive a $60,000 F-350 Dually with every available option to their job cleaning bathrooms in an office complex.

But hey, to each their own.
There's a reason they live in a trailer park. Personal finance really isn't that difficult.

Saul Good 12-16-2009 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian (Post 6353639)
It sounds like Your friend is a ****ing idiot.


An irresponsible one at that.


Maybe she should hang out with that guy friend who is Fing the other guy friend's wife....
Jeez, Mic. What kind of riffraff do you associate with? Payday loans, adultery, shady car deals...must be all that hiphop music. (I'm going to add a sarcasm disclaimer here just in case it wasn't obvious)

OnTheWarpath15 12-16-2009 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353667)
Jeez, Mic. What kind of riffraff do you associate with? Payday loans, adultery, shady car deals...must be all that hiphop music. (I'm going to add a sarcasm disclaimer here just in case it wasn't obvious)
LMAO

Rain Man 12-16-2009 10:28 PM
I've been thinking about this, and I think I see an option for her if she meets three criteria.

1. Did she buy the car from Hertz?

2. By 'buying', did she mean 'renting'?

3. Is she open to returning the car and not getting her payments back?

If the answer to all three is yes, I think she can pull it off.

Simply Red 12-16-2009 10:28 PM
Micjones is always right, you aint heard?
:D

Easy 6 12-17-2009 12:59 AM
In case anyone else hadnt said it (they have), this girl is ****ed... her plea's will fall on the deaf of ears of 'buy here stores'.

The papers she signed at delivery, i'm sure, wrapped it up... she better go in there in some hotpants & sing for her supper to get any justice from these jokers.

BigMeatballDave 12-17-2009 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6353363)
Really? I think 30K is pretty average - and we spend a bit less than that.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2aalbmh.jpg
Sweet!

King_Chief_Fan 12-17-2009 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micjones (Post 6352849)
So there's this girl at my job who is currently having a Hell of a time with her car dealership. It's one of those "buy here, pay here" lots. Her last car was repo'd after she missed a couple payments so she's been scrambling to find reliable transportation. Turns out that she moved a bit too quickly and took a flyer on a 2002 Ford that has upwards of 100K miles on it. A car that also brings with it a financial responsibility of right around $10,000. Obviously she's going to come out on the losing end of the deal. In all likelihood...the car will shoot craps long before she sees the light at the end of that contract.

So she tells me she's going to ask the dealership to refund both her first few payments and the initial down payment she remitted when she bought the car. Getting that money back is her end game.

I'm trying to talk some sense into her and help her realize that getting that money back at the expense of having this reported as another repo on your credit isn't a fair trade-off.

Am I wrong to suggest to her that the dealership is under NO legal responsibility to let her out of that contract?

She swears that she's going to get another car with an even LESS reputable lot. I tell her that they're going to see the open car loan and tell her to hit the bricks.

She's one of those people who talks her way out of everything with customer service personnel. But those are significantly smaller battles. Removal of NSF fees, refunds on hotel stays, etc. She's convinced she's going to win this fight. I think she's in BIG trouble.

Am I off-base here?
If she walks in with current payment due and turns the car in...she might be able to avoid the repo on her credit history. She is a fool if she thinks she can get them to give her anything in return for that car

Meck77 12-17-2009 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6352917)
Jesus tapdancing Christ.

I just bought a brand new, $35K car, put no money down, and I'm not paying much more than that.

(Helps to have decent credit and be a smart consumer)
You call that smart?

Being smart is buying a slightly used car you can afford with CASH. You were upside down the moment you signed those papers. The finance charges will probably top 70k by the time your are done paying. Well that is if that car even makes it that long.

Iowanian 12-17-2009 08:14 AM
She'll be lucky if the pawn shop car dealer she bought from doesn't punch her in the meat curtains and break her thumbs.

wild1 12-17-2009 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353474)
Nice. You may have noticed that I'm not a car guy (especially for a 31 y/o). I've got a six figure income, and my wife's car and my car combined probably aren't worth $10,000. They both look nice and drive perfectly, though.

I just can't justify shelling out money for a new car. (To myself. Nothing against anyone else buying one.) I bought mine for about $17,500 when it was 3-4 years old with 36,000 miles.
Ditto... except the car I'm driving now cost $12,000.

When I think of what colleagues are throwing away per month on their cars, I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Some of them are spending $500 and up every month on a car payment. Just one car, not even counting the spouse. They've probably flushed $100,000 or more in the last 10 years.

Mile High Mania 12-17-2009 09:03 AM
A Ford what?

She should see what the KBB value is... likely extremely low, less than $5k. Go to a place like CarMax... get a quote for what they would give her. And, then try to work something out to where they pay the note, take the car and then roll what is owed into a payment towards another vehicle.

kepp 12-17-2009 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish (Post 6352944)
Mic, I recall a similar story (possibly a title loan(?) from you about another friend). Is this the same person?

Let her learn the lesson.
This. I hate to say it, but some people can not be taught...they have to learn it for themselves, and usually the hard way. I have a friend who is like this. Living beyond his means (against advice) and behind on bills/car payment because of it. Car (SUV that was way too expensive for him) got repossessed and I told him to go find an old Civic for $3K and drive that for another 75K miles until he got his finances back in order. Instead, he pays $3K for a beat up, unreliable Saab and it breaks down six weeks later. Wash/rinse/repeat - eventually he'll learn.

Micjones 12-17-2009 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6353667)
Jeez, Mic. What kind of riffraff do you associate with? Payday loans, adultery, shady car deals...must be all that hiphop music. (I'm going to add a sarcasm disclaimer here just in case it wasn't obvious)
I also associate with poets with Masters degrees, Cal-Berkley musicians, and ministers but their stories aren't as interesting.
ROFL

Micjones 12-17-2009 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania (Post 6354150)
A Ford what?

She should see what the KBB value is... likely extremely low, less than $5k. Go to a place like CarMax... get a quote for what they would give her. And, then try to work something out to where they pay the note, take the car and then roll what is owed into a payment towards another vehicle.
She'd be upside down in a new loan.
I doubt seriously that the car is worth a fourth of what she owes on it. She would be carrying over thousands of dollars onto the next contract and would have to put thousands of dollars down to make that work.

Micjones 12-17-2009 09:53 AM
Last night a friend mentioned to me that there might've been a 30-day guarantee written into the contract. That MIGHT free her from the contract, but they're already stringing her along... So I'm guessing they'd tie this thing up until that was null and void.


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