Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
 

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

Im sorry, but i dont seethe difference in "he shouldnt be fired, but why should he be back?"

also, he should be fired.

The "I don't have a stance" column.

Brilliant.

Weak. Weak. Weak.

is there a point to this article? usually not a fatlock basher but this was a sub-par effort.

for the first time, i'm leaning towards wanting haley replaced. this team has not improved one iota this season and talent is only a part of the problem...

There is no reason to retain Haley other than the fact he's under contract for 4 more seasons.

I hope that's not a good enough reason.

Whats the justification? Not looking like idiots for hiring him in the first place.

Bring back Bernard Pollard after Todd is gone please

It takes time.
Posted via Mobile Device

This is basically him saying Todd Haley should be fired but doing in a way to not make people react because most people won't want to fire a guy after 1 year even though he's been laughably bad.

So, basically nutless journalism.

It's unlikely that a head coach gets fired after one year with the hand Haley was dealt. Haley has made major blunders, no doubt. He thought his ego alone could turn the mediocre into talent. He tried to do it all, and he did it poorly, mostly. But, you don't fire someone after but one year. It is not the Hunt way and it is not the Pioli way, I am speculating.

I think JW put his finger on it. Blame the assistant coaches. If you bring back Haley, you need to show blood to the fans in order to prove that you are sincere about changing losing ways. You start with the assistants. If the failure continues, then you can make a change at the top.

As much as I'd like wholesale change in the coaching and the players, I don't think it will happen. We had hoped, going in to 2009, that this would be a two year process. What we are seeing is that this could be much more, sadly.

But does it scare you that the more time we have to see him and this team, that they are getting worse?

We have seen him have it out for people before. This is a different angle and i didnt mind this at all. I was saying towards the end of the game its time for Haley to go. 2 weeks ago i was like whatever happens this season i am ok with Haley coming back, but 2 weeks later thinking hey, Pitt isnt as good as we thought and our win was pure luck not us getting better.

I just dont see a reason to keep haley. Has the defense gotten better? how about the team as a whole? i just dont see anything outside of the online getting better. Jamal is a good guy, but i still worry about his fumbling, but We just did not get better as a team as the season went on.

There does seem to be a nutless void down there..

There's still 2 weeks left in the season.

If the disaster continues, and we have no reason to believe it won't, the temperature of Haley's seat would grow warmer.

Having said that, I think he'll get at least another year.

Probably all the assistants will have to go.

It takes time to do what?

Fire him?

Or are we all supposed to sit back and watch this team be horribly coached by a man who isn't ready and doesn't deserve to be a head coach in the NFL just because he's under contract?

In a perfect world, Haley would be fired.

Except Krumrie.

He's got a lifetime contract.

"HE JUST NEEDS MORE TIME!!!!!"

[/pioli-smoker]

In his interview on 810 last week, Pioli said that he firmly believes that a HC must determine his own coaching staff.

But let's say Haley is brought back. He'd have to gut damn near his entire staff, whether he wants to or not. So is Pioli, in year 2, potentially going to want to go against one of his core beliefs?

What does that say about the overall quality of the HC if there are already this many problems?

3. So far that's the only quantifiable number anyone can use to claim that there has been progress.

And I'm not buying it. If Herm were still coaching this team, his sorry ass would have won three games with this group.

Well if Haley goes,why the Fukk keep Pisoli? Oh yeah cause he's a GENIUS.......I remember now.Didn't he hand pick Haley?Fukk it,if 1 goes after 1 season IMO they can all go.

Cowher and Pioli have been in contact

Evidently.

And it's not even that. Most of these gutless schmucks would bring the guy back if he were only on a 1-year deal. Because evidently 1 season isn't enough to recognize abysmal failure when it's staring right at you.

These people can enjoy their principled stance. They'll be the same folks that ease right into the mob in 2011 when the psychotic shit-for-brains we have coaching this team finally gets canned (you can actually witness this phenomenon firsthand with the folks that are only now slowly realizing that Cassel is nothing more than Matt Moore with a large contract).

Only 1.5 seasons too late...

I have no clue what you're basing this on, and maybe it should be its own thread for discussion.

But what's the general thought process of the Planet on Cowher?

I'd take him in an instant. Right now. Others?

FYP

I personally don't agree with how Haley calls a game, or how he manages and handles his team.

But I will say this, he's a rookie head coach, and was given a crappy roster from the start. Im not trying to stick up for the guy, all Im trying to say is, it would be hard for most coaches to thrive under those circumstances.

Well, hell yeah. I'd take Marty Schottenheimer back in an instant at this point.

:facepalm:

Haley should've never fired gailey, the egomaniac cant even run a damn team let alone the offense as well

We're so low that it might take another type of Marty-like revival--someone to help this franchise walk again.

For grins, I asked this in another thread and heard crickets: How many games would Cowher have won this season with this exact same roster? More? Less? The same?

It would help also if our QB wasn't a dumbass, this is the 80's chiefs the way they play

im sick of losing, jamaal charles is the only reason to watch it seems, oh and chambers

And Succop.ROFL
All the drafts we fukked up over the years and he may be the best pick since JA.Priceless.:facepalm:

The question for me is, what reputable and good HC is actually going to want to come in and take over this shitfest?

I mean Holmgren looks like he's headed to the Browns but they had to way overpay him and give him total control for it to happen....two things that aren't happening in KC.

Don't see Cowher coming here, Shanahan will go to Washington or Dallas IMO, and could we get Gruden here?

Just don't see it.

Having said that, seeing where this season has gone and that little to no progress has been made I would find it hard to begrudge Pioli for whacking Haley....changes or no changes.

That was definetly not a genious pick, basically a lucky stab with the last pick in teh draft. definetly an abortion year but we got lucky with him

Cassel played well today, at least that's the word on these here intrawebz. I watched a different game, where some unidentified douche's flutterball was wildly inconsistent.

The fact that a guy who has never even heard of himself put up almost 300 yards on us tells me all i need to know about haley.

Please GTFO.

Yeah Im just saying of all the picks for us to get a sleeper on,the last pick of the draft?I love it.:clap:

Yeah he was awesome throwing for over 300 yards and 2 tds, and completing 22-40 passes. Throwing a ****ing hail mary on the last play and then a check down pass to a blocking RB is hilarious. He better ****ing find a clue this offseason. He was lucky that he didn't have atleast 1 INT today

i hate this team

ROFL
Thats pitiful,no doubt.

Mr. irrelevant doesn't get paid shit either, def. the team MVP along with Charles

The defense quit today. This is as bad as anything I've seen in 30 years with this team.

I loved watching DJ chase Harrison on his last TD today...the defense is slow and pathetic. I can't believe they allowed a nobody to run over them all day

To Whitlock's point, what coaches are going to work for haley next year? Let's forget how he treats people for now. For all we know, he might treat people well to their face and only goes taz devil on the sidelines. But if you were a coach from another team, would you come here knowing that Haley is on the hot seat and if he fails, he will be canned as well as you? Is it worth moving for what could very possible be one and done? If you were the QB coadh for the Cowboys and Haley offered you the OC position, would you take it, knowing full well you could be unemployed in a year?

And got rid of a guy just as good as him in Conner Barth.

The Succop pick yields 0 points for Pioli.

We should feel lucky he didn't release Jamaal Charles cause of his fumble issues

I just think its bad when the one position you don't have to worry about is the one you filled with the very last pick of the draft.:shake:

Yeah, these are good questions. In short, if you have a lame duck coach, you should fire him and move on, period.

Why keep 2 kickers? Expecially one with a weaker leg?

It's an especially thin limb for guys like Crennel and Weiss.

If Cassel is truly as bad as he's shown this season and we aren't able to completely rebuild our LB corps (seeing as how dicksmoke wasted the entire 2009 offseason), we're still a 5 win team at best, and then if Haley goes, Crennel and Weiss are guys coming off repeat failures w/ Bill Belichick on their resume.

The Belichick tag is quickly becoming the 'Tedford QB' tag of NFL coordinators and staff. McDaniels may or may not be Aaron Rodgers, but I'm pretty sure that we drew Trent Dilfer in Scott Pioli, I'm not exactly looking for Joey Harrington and Akili Smith.

My point being that all we did in drafting Succop was replace the guy we cut.

And no, Barth does not have a weaker leg, as evidenced by Barth's 3 50+ makes a few weeks back.

Had we never made the Succop pick, we'd still have Barth and we'd still be the exact same club. In other words, all Succop's success has done is mask the fact that he cut a pretty good kicker in his own right.

The Chiefs are no better off because Ryan Succop was drafted.

Wait...succop doesnt have a weaker leg because barth made 50+ kicks?

I get what you are saying, but im ok with drafting a stud kicker with the last pick.

People will do anything to bash Whitlock.

He's making a pretty common rhetorical move. Rather than state your case, have the other side state theirs. What evidence is there that Todd Haley deserves to coach this team next year? What has he done to prove that he's qualified to do anything other than work as a trainer on The Biggest Loser?

I asked a similar question earlier today about Pioli. What has he done in KC to show you that he knows anything about personnel evaluation?

I hope he isn't our football version of Dayton Moore, not a good 1st year

The answers to these questions are...nothing.

However we'll see answers that involve things like process, time, yadda yadda.

But Succop's not really a 'stud' kicker. He's just another kicker in a sea of decet kickers. He looks great by comparison because the rest of our draft is dogshit.

Break his #s down, he's making his bones off of chip shots.

He's 8 for 8 on kicks shorter than 30 yards.

He's 2-5 on kicks greater than 49.

In other words, on the gimme kicks that he damn well oughta be good; he is. On the long kicks where the true 'studs' show themselves to be difference makers, he's below average.

Even his game winner against Pitt was a 22 yarder, I'm hardly going to start on his Canton bust just yet on account of a glorified XP.

I wouldn't go calling us set at kicker just yet. I think we had a better one in Barth.

(and you're right, my first post didn't make much sense, it had a typo. I meant to say that Barth does not have a weaker leg)

Cam Cameron was fired after 1 season and the team did pretty good when he was fired

I think it's closer to Penn State running back.

I asked that question 5 months ago.

And again 3 months ago.

The answer is evidently that I'm not a GM and should therefore STFU.

It's also worth mentioning the team that shit canned their GM and will fire the coach put up records aginst the Chiefs.

That's exactly what it is, it couldn't be any more evident.

Second in command from a successful team comes in, makes a series of baffling moves, while the organization constantly stresses "players" over talent.

Is there really any difference between "The Right 53" and "25 Ross Gloads"? Of course not.

This is the same group who before the season said they thought they had the Right 53.

Guys like Larry Johnson
Bobby Engram
Monty Beisel
Mike Goff
Sean Ryan
Jake O'Connell

What a crock of shit.

Mangini just needs more time!!!!

Kokinis just needed more time!!!!!


Don't you know that, given enough time, even the least able coaches and executives suddenly become great?

It's not difficult to surmise how DJ's left nut feels about killing Scott Pioli, and uh, my own proclivities for killing Pioli are well known and oft-lamented facts of ChiefsPlanet lore.

Whitlock is spot on. And I liked the way he wrote it. It conveys his argument in a way that's more novel than the standard fire-the-head-coach.com type of onslaught commonly seen in this type of situation.

Bobby Petrino won three games in Atlanta before bailing.

WITHOUT a RB, WITHOUT a QB, WITHOUT a left tackle and WITHOUT fan support.

Haley needs to go.

Buh-Bye.

I think that's the first time I've seen "craptastic" in print.

Fine if this were an open debate, but a terrible gesture, generally speaking, for a columnist.

With each column, he needs a more cogent, concise argument. If he had set this up as a type Part I, for example, I'd say ok, but as is, it's poorly written.

Perhaps he could have made the case. Presented the reasons for keeping Haley and developed these reasons a bit more...Something, anything.

No. No. No. That was all luck. They played the NFC West. From 1-15 to 11-5 was only because of the easier schedule. It takes 1 full year to evaluate. No one could have turned this team around in 1 year (unless they got to play the NFC East and then it would only be because of luck.) It had nothing to do with a great judge of talent as a President of Football Operations. It had nothing to do with pick Ireland as a GM. Or Sporano as a HC. Or cutting Zach Thomas (one of the all-time favorite Dolphins) because he was tool old to fit the system. It had nothing to do with trading Jason Taylor (one of the all time favorite Dolphins) because he didn't buy into the new system. It had nothing to do with picking up a QB in free agency (cheap) and building a system around him that fits his talent (so he can finish 2nd in MVP). It had nothing to do with drafting a very good LT with the first pick in the draft and having him signed before the draft so he doesn't miss 1 minute of practice. Or nothing to do with implementing a system that covers up the weakness of the offensive line (wildcat). It's such a gimmick that nearly every NFL team runs it. Or drafting OL and DL in their first draft. Nope. It was all luck and don't you ever say otherwise.

Can anyone see Pioli busting the kill shot on Haley and then hiring........Mangini????

Oh Jesus Christ.

:huh:

All he needed was to restate his title and follow it with two words: "They shouldn't."

I'd go on sabbatical.

I'd probably ****ing Cobain myself.

Then he would have had a thesis, and all would have been well.

But when I read, "I'm not arguing anything" from a columnist, I wonder who the **** was sleeping at the editorial desk.

I doubt anyone questions anything Whitlock writes.

Well obviously you cant play football without those positions.

I hear ya. Pioli and Haley could have IMPROVED the team in year 1 instead of making it WORSE.

Clearly Dane thinks we should hire Bobby Petrino.

What a ****ing dumbass that Hollywood elitist is.

I'm dangerously close to going on one anyway.

I found myself completely apathetic while watching today's game. It occured to me that, win or lose, I don't really care what happens with this team right now.

So why get so pissed off about it?

Unfortunately, I don't really have a backup NFL team. If the Lakers ever pissed me off to this level, I'd become a temporary OKC Thunder fan. If the Blues ever did this, I'd become a temporary Devils fan. If the Cardinals ever did this, I'd become an Angels fan (though the Cardinals would probably have to collectively rape my wife and kill my first-born).

I don't have any idea where I'd turn. If I did, I'd have probably already done so. I've never had this level of vitriole for a team I root for. This just sucks.

I'm able to tap into a bemused disgust while watching the games. It doesn't bother me when they lose, and I haven't really seen them play a game they deserved to win.

More than anything, I'm repulsed by the front office of this team, which thinks that there's an alchemical solution that flows from New England.

I'd love to watch these assholes crash and burn somewhere else, but it really ****ing sucks that it's gonna happen here.

Put your trust in sir Thomas Brady.

Welcome to my world in July of '09, days after the Betancourt trade when Dayton Moore went on 810 to explain the acquisition and "the process," yes, space fans, the mother****ing "process."

And what he proceeded to do was demonstrate that he was the most incompetent sack of shit that I've ever heard pass himself off as a GM. And I was struck with the horror of realizing that my beloved team was probably at least 4-5 years away from competing...that Moore would need to be fired first.

I was seriously bothered for days by this impressive kick to the nuts.