Teicher: Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade
 

Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

To Brian Waters, the numbers speak with clarity. During the season’s final few games, the Chiefs became one of the league’s most explosive running teams while significantly reducing the number of times quarterback Matt Cassel was sacked.

There can be no better endorsement of the Chiefs’ much-maligned offensive line.

“They say stuff rolls downhill, and we’re at the bottom,” Waters said Monday as the Chiefs, who finished their 4-12 season with a 44-24 win over the Broncos on Sunday in Denver, cleared out their lockers and scattered for winter. “We take that burden because we’re big boys.

“But the last two years, I don’t think that some of my offensive linemates have been judged properly. I feel a lot of eyes that have been judging some of my teammates are unqualified eyes. There are a lot of people basing their opinions off what they know, and a lot of people don’t know football.

“In our position, everything is all about what other guys do. Everything is about how many times the quarterback got hit or it’s all about how many rushing yards we had. We’re pretty much (tied) to the numbers.”

His comments suggest that given Kansas City’s recent offensive improvements, Waters, a four-time Pro Bowl guard, believes the Chiefs don’t need to make upgrading their offensive line an offseason priority.

During the season’s final eight games, running back Jamaal Charles trailed only Tennessee’s Chris Johnson in rushing yards with 968. Charles averaged 6 yards per carry in that time.

Chiefs quarterbacks were sacked 37 times in the first 10 games, but Cassel went down only eight times in the final six. In Denver, he wasn’t sacked for the first time all season.

Some of the improvement has to do with changes on the line. On the right side, Ryan O’Callaghan replaced Ikechuku Ndukwe at tackle and Wade Smith replaced Mike Goff at guard.

The line also had time to adjust after the Chiefs abruptly changed their offense during the preseason when they fired coordinator Chan Gailey.

“That affected us greatly,” Waters said. “We’d be lying to ourselves to not think that the change in offense two weeks before the regular season started didn’t harm what we had already kind of got going. But that’s the head coach’s prerogative to make that type of change.”

The biggest reason for the line’s improved play was Charles, who is smaller and quicker than Johnson and doesn’t need as much space to be an effective runner.

“What we were trying to do offensively wasn’t to the strength of Larry,” Waters said. “We were trying to be a little more open-space, a little bit more no-huddle, a little bit more fast-hitting type of offense. We know Larry, and when he was in his greatest time, he was more of a pounder.

“We finally got comfortable in what we were trying to do. The idea of what we were trying to do from game to game has changed through the course of the year and we finally settled on who we are and we weren’t going to change that.

“Talentwise, I don’t think I’ve ever played with anybody as talented as (Charles) is, with the explosive ability he has. He has the ability to make a 5-yard run a 50-yard run just like that.

“He has the ability to make us look better.”

Monday’s interview ended Waters’ seasonlong silence. Waters asked to be traded last winter shortly after Todd Haley was hired as the Chiefs’ head coach.

Waters said his silence shouldn’t be interpreted that he was unhappy playing for the Chiefs.

“With the stuff I came back here with during the offseason, I just wanted to kind of stand out of the way and just do my job and allow this whole situation to show itself,” Waters said. “I didn’t want to get in the way. I know people are always trying to make it seem like you feel this way or you feel that way. I just wanted people to see this whole program for themselves. I didn’t want to be a distraction.

“It was just a good year for me to focus on my own job.”

Waters started 15 games this season, missing last month’s Cleveland game because of a sore hamstring. That ended a streak of 51 consecutive starts.

He also missed out on the Pro Bowl after playing in Hawaii the previous year,

“I think I had a solid year,” Waters said. “I don’t think I performed any worse than I’ve performed over the last few years.

“I feel I have plenty left in the tank.”

What do you think he's going to say? That's his position he doesn't want to be the guy who gets replaced.

Waters need to see the Turk.

Or Donald Trump.

Anyone that will fire his sucky fat ass.

Good thing Waters is not in charge of personnel decisions.

Or Tony Gonzalez

'course he does.

“I don’t think I performed any worse than I’ve performed over the last few years."

High praise there.

He may be right but pioli needs to develop young players behind good players. So just because we have a line that's improving we always have to find a way to get even better

Oline really isn't our biggest need.. but at least C is very very high up there with both RG and LG not to far behind. Then again, I would like to see Wade Smith starting at Center and I think we might have something in Harris at LG. Hell Brown and Richardson could even be wild cards for RG and/or RT but O'Callagahn doesn't NEED to be replaced right away. Maybe he thinks some of those young guys have what it takes. I'm in no way saying we shouldn't bring anyone in or upgrade... but I'll be pissed if the #5 pick goes to the Oline. I wouldn't mind one in the second round though if someone falls... but don't reach for one.

Im gonna go out on a limb and say that I dont want Waters replaced.

I understand that wont be popular, but I dont care. The guy has a couple more years left on him and I seriously believe we will be a much improved team next year. The management knows where the holes are now and will move to fill them as well as possible.

I think that Waters poor play was perfectly in conjunction with Alberts and that his play came back to form once Alberts did. I think he will make us forget his suck if/when we upgrade the center position as well. I saw him lunging a lot early in the year and getting a lot of holding penalties and IMHO those are both byproducts of a player trying to do to much because of the players around him not doing their jobs.

I have talked with Brian a couple times and he is one of my favorite players on the team, he one of the few veteran presences and has been a Chief through thick and thin.

If Whitlock never writes that article, the perception of him would still be accurate. Unfortunately, Whitlock made him look like a bitch and its really unfair. It put him in the wron light with us fans.

I even called himout on that article and he responded with saying he should have kept that info private (though, I couldn't tell if he was saying it sarcastically or not by his response) he even went on to say his play hadn't been effected by it. LOL

:bong:

He's brings up some decent points, but we still need to attempt to upgrade the O-Line.

I'm sorry but you're incorrect.

Waters is done and the Chiefs need to move on.

And I could care less about his relationship with Whitlock, Haley, Muir or Pioli.

His play on the field speaks for itself.

Finito.

I bet Waters is here one more year.

Think so too. Too many holes to replace his snitchin' ass just yet.

I expect people to disagree with that.

tell me Im wrong here:

Waters play was much better in the last 4-5 games....the same games that Albert started coming along in his adjustment period.

Im not saying he will ever return to his all pro form, Im just saying that I think his position could make it through at least one more season with him manning the position. If Iupati is available with our first 2nd rounder, Waters is toast though. Id pull the trigger right then. Other than that, I cant imagine a player that could step right in and perform better.

Who do you have on your radar, besides Harris, that could do the job. I know Harris is an option but it would be foolish to go in without a good fallback option so if the PS player doesn't make it, we have an option.

Its ok to disagree. As I have said a few times to you and others here, I have learned a lot more about the game and our team through arguments and opposing discussions that constant agreements.

There is validity in drafting a LT, moving Albert to his college LG position, moving Waters to RG and drafting a high quality center (O'Dowd, Wisneiwski - if they come out; Tennant, Olsen (who is a better center than he was a guard), or underrated Estes of Hawaii).

I'd be a little pissed if the Chiefs pick a guard from Idaho with their top 2nd rounder though.

that rabbit is crazy

I don't think people get how much a RT would help us out, especially with someone who likes to cut to the outside a lot. Either that or a Guard with good pulling power.

Fine isn't good enough for a line in the NFL, IMO

If the offensive line is fine then we need a new QB.

who gives a **** where he is from. Have you seen him play? I would sacrifice a later round pick to move up a few spots if he is still there at 29 or so.

He might be the quickest pulling guard I have come out. Perfect attitude to be a leader and is known as a hard worker and very high charachter guy.

I honestly see him as a probowl quality player and might make a couple all pro teams if he goes into the right situation.

The starting guards from the ALL PRO TEAM are from Bloomberg and fresno state.

We need a Tight End, and Defense defense defense.

I would have said QB too, but thats not going to change.

To a certain degree, it does matter where he went to school. The problem is that he plays at Idaho. The level of competition that he faces is substantially less that what you are going to face in a BCS level conference on a weekly basis. Perhaps he is that level of player, but he plays at a position that isn't as necessarily valued in terms of the draft as other positions and it would be an expensive proposition to use a pick on a guard at that point in the draft for a team like the Chiefs who need major talent increases at a number of more impactful positions than at guard.

And while Mike might be the best pure guard in the draft, he's still a pure guard. Not a tackle or center, but a guard. And he'd have to be damn near guaranteed to be a Pro Bowler at that position in order to justify that high of a pick for a pure guard.

I just don't see the Chiefs pulling the trigger on him. I could see a team use a late first rounder on him as a luxury type pick, which is what the best teams do and why they remain on top - because they can take the best player at a secondary position as they already have quality players at the key positions. Perhaps the Chiefs go with a BPA approach and draft guys like Berry and Iupati.

Logan Mankins went to Fresno State and went at #15 iirc

Steve Hutchinson went #17

The Eagles took Shawn Andrews at #15

Guards arent a highly valued position, but a guard like Iutapi will be overdrafted because of how much he brings to the table. Elite guards are taken earlier than normal and Iutapi surely fits that bill.

Im not saying AT ALL to take him at 5. Im saying that if he fell to 25 or later, I would be burning up the phone lines to try and work a deal to trade up to get him.

I dont know why you think he is a pure guard either, his frame could play tackle and I have actually read that he can play any oline position except center.

Mankins went in the last pick in the first round at #32. Shawn Andrews went at #16 and edit: was a tackle coming out of Arkansas if I remember right. You had Hutch right though.

I guess iirc=not very accurate for details...to much beer and resin between then and now

The point still stands though. If he were available after #25 I would be burning up the phone lines.

Resin...nice. Anyway, still after 25, no ****ing way. The Chiefs shouldn't be taking a guard in the top 64. They need impact players.

Also, LOL at Dane McCloud: Offensive Line Analyst. Waters did a fine job in the 2nd half of the year, we don't have a replacement, and a rookie wouldn't be better.

He was terrible early in the year and he's going to be 33 next season. His physical skills are eroding fast. He'll probably decline even more.

I thought the OL play improved significantly the last 6 or so games. The improved lined play coincided with Wade Smith starting and Mike Goff getting injured. Also, Brandon Albert played quite poorly the first half of the season but I thought he played really well the last half of the season. Much has been said about his weight loss but we don't really know how or if that affected his play. Installing a new blocking scheme so late (after Chan Gailey was fired) didn't help either.

That said I disagree with Waters. We do need to improve the line through the draft. I hope we spend one of our top 4 or 5 draft picks on a OL. Carl Peterson largely ignored the OL in the past 10 years and it shows. I for don't think we should be using a high draft pick on a new LT. I think Albert's play during the past 6 - 8 games warrants another year at LT.

Not to be argumentive, but isn't it possible that Water's poor play early in the year was a result of his negitive attitude after his confrontation with Haley/Pioli ? If so, then he managed to straighten himself out and he might be servicable for 1-2 more years while we work on other areas that need immediate help.

I don't think so. He's not that kind of guy.

He's on the decline...I'd like to head the decline of an OL off at the pass for once.

I get a raging boner when I think of Iupati pulling out and dropping some jealous bitches as Jesus 'mother-****ing' Charles explodes into the open field.
Posted via Mobile Device

I just came.

Anyone that says Iutapi wont be a impact player hasnt seen him play once.

Well like I said, we don't have anybody to replace him, and a rookie wouldn't be better.

He could be better if the team is better.

It is no mistake that Waters play got better on the same timeline as Albert was coming out of his adjustment period.

I dont buy that age is taking hold quite yet.

I may be wrong.

time will tell

Waters is not a factor. He had his run and after his performance this year it is clearly over. They need to give him a game ball and a golden microphone with a ticket out of KC.

Teicher's Article for Tomorrow: Brown Says Chiefs Don't Need Safety Upgrade

.........................

This O Line is a lot better than the people on this board give it credit for. I've been seeing their improvement week to week and they were pretty respectable the last few weeks.

Of course it takes awhile for word of something like that to get out so the media isn't really onto it yet... I guess this article is a start. When we get a few more of these types of articles from media members then all the parrots on this board can get their opinions caught up to reality.

A Center is a must in the draft, not moving a guy to Center, but a bona fide Center that mans this line for years to come. A Guard is needed as well, but maybe the most important thing for this line is a legitimate competition for RT, RG, and LG in camp amongst the guys we already have.

I don't follow college and the draft nearly as much as others. Whats the report on Brandon Carter, maybe some character issues, the spread? Guy seems big and nasty enough to have a career in the league.

http://www.tcmuk.tv/images/blog/Blaz...byn_Hilton.jpg



"We've got to protect our phony baloney jobs, gentlemen."
--Brian Waters, Jan 4, 2010

I'm not sure I'm ready to buy that the pass protection is better.

The biggest thing that changed there is we found an effective running game that kept teams from just teeing off on Cassel.

I still believe we need to improve the interior of the line. You don't just suddenly stop getting your ass pushed 5 yards back into the pocket. That said, I'm not sure it's something that commands a high draft pick. Get a utility lineman in round 3 or later, a guy that can play guard or center then let him win a spot on the line.

Waters, Ray Farmer wants to see you and bring your playbook!

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/staff/ray_farmer.jpg

It is crazy that Cryin' Waters thinks Charles has something to do with him. O'C and Smith improved the right side, but 90% of it is that Charles has a different running style, and the guy before him was run down and used up. He needs to be careful about patting himself on the back so hard.

Somewhere in the middle is reality.

Of course Waters is going to say they don't need upgraded, but to ignore the facts that he mentions is stupid, they are reality.

The team did change offenses at the worst possible time.

They did re-train Albert on proper technique and it took a while.

Goff and Ndukwe were obvious failures. Colin Brown and Barry Richardson should start being a factor next year.

Even the great OL of 2003 and 2004 took a little time to develop some cohesiveness.

I am very encouraged by the state of the OL, and two months ago it looked pathetic.


Kudos to Bill Muir and Joe D’Alessandris, they have things clearly going the right direction IMO.

Spend the picks on playmakers please, Jamaal Charles is clear evidence of the difference they can make.

of course waters doesn't want any changes on the Oline because he MIGHT be one of the changes.

i would say virtually every position along the Oline improved over the year except for Center and left guard. Both waters and niswanger were a weakness this year ... even at the end.

shit ... we need just about every position on the Oline upgraded.

start with center then ...

left guard
right tackle
right guard
left tackle.

maybe if we sign Iupati we can put him at left guard and move Waters to center where he can use his experience to help make line calls and direct the Oline.

Albert
Iupati
waters
wade
O'callaghan

if Albert continues to improve the left side of the Oline would be solid and the right side passable.

Waters wanted Herm back this offseason.

He's a fool. Just like Tony was for wanting to stick with Thigpen.

Just like all the Chiefs in the late 80s were for wanting Frank Gansz.

Players live in their own little world and can't be objective about it. Things that seem obvious to us usually aren't to them.

Truer words..........

This just in -> "O'Connell doesn't think KC needs a new TE next season. Says catching and blocking at position overrated"

Charles single handedly made the o-line look better. That doesn't mean the line is where it needs to be ... it means that Charles is a freaking jet-powered sneaky stud of a dude.

I expect Waters to be loyal to his fellow bigs, but we need to improve that line. Imagine what Charles could do with a dominant offensive line.

FAX

I have been thinking about this for a month now.

There is a delusional part of me that thinks Charles could actually be BETTER than Chris Johnson.

Considering he actually has plenty of room to improve, he could shatter Priest's record if he stays healthy. And we have a head coach who believes in balanced offense so I don't think he's ever going to be overworked or asked to do things he can't do.

While it is true the OL did improve it is also true that they need to be stronger on the interior so Cassell can step up into his read. Center and RG need to be upgraded. If Iupati is available with their first pick second round the Chiefs need to jump on it.

Sadly, I don't think any of the Centers in this draft would be an upgrade so I would like to see them draft a RG and move Wade Smith to Center.

Fact of the matter is that guards aren't impact players, and I've seen the Vandals once this year and he didn't blow me away to the point where I'd justify spending a very high second round draft choice on that specific position, especially considering that guys like Mike Johnson (Alabama, G), Zane Beadles (Utah, LT), Matt Tennant (Boston College, C), Asamoah (Illinois, G), Fox (Miami, LT), Petrus (Arkansas, G) will most likely be available when the Chiefs pick in the third round and possibly the fourth. And I don't believe that Iupati is as good as Beadles, Johnson or Tennant. All three of those guys were absolutely dominating this year - against high level competition. I might even argue that C John Estes of Hawaii (which is in the same conference as Idaho, the WAC) is a better player than Iupati.

Will Shields might have been one of the top three guards to have ever played in the NFL, was the Outland Trophy winner coming out of college as guard for Tom Osborne's Cornhuskers, and he went in the third round.

I'm not saying that Iupati isn't a good player. He's supposedly got excellent feet, ideal size and is a good kid. I'm saying that he's a guard that played against WAC competition and the Chiefs ultimately need guys who can play at positions that will provide more impact than what the guard position will, especially with their high second round pick.

Where ya been, Sac?

After playing next to Roaf, Weigmann, and Shields you'd think Waters would be the FIRST person to say that this o-line needs help. His barometer must be upside down. Plus, having an upgrade at center would only make his job easier.

Great post.

The problem with Tennant is he is a Niswanger clone. A tall light center that has trouble with stocky power rush DT's. Wade Smith is more of an upgrade at Center then anyone you will find in this draft.

Meanwhile there are some good guards in this draft. I would be happy with Iupati or Asamoah in the second, or Mike Johnson in the third. I don't think anyone else would be much help for 2010.

While what Waters is saying is nonsense, its nice to see him take up for his squad.

Nowhere really. It's amazing how fast time goes by. I think that my last log in was Halloween and I guess I just got busy doing other stuff and didn't post the last couple of months. Doesn't seem like it was that long.

The Chiefs have a lot of areas that need upgrading. The question is simply where OL falls on the priority list for Pioli, and what's available to fix problems. The team is desperate for a NT, for example, but that would probably change in a heartbeat if the Patriots were stupid enough to let Wilfork go, because I'd imagine that the Chiefs would back the Brinks truck up for Vince.

Being a light center isn't necessarily a bad thing - it hasn't hurt Casey Weigmann one bit. (And I'd suggest that losing Weigmann in Herm's Youth Movement plan was a bigger loss than anyone might have realized. Most underrated lineman of the past decade IMO.) Tennant is light years beyond Niswanger at the same stage and is as good at his position as anyone whose come out in recent memory. Sure, Alex Mack was ideal because of his size, but Tennant is a superb center who can get out and pull, a la Weigmann, is smart and tenacious. The John Estes kid of Hawaii is the same way, but because no one ever sees Hawaii play, no one is mentioning him. Athletic, smart, mobile and basically born to play the position. And if O'Dowd and Wisniewski declare for the draft, they are both high first day choices at the C position.

I mentioned it in my mock on the Draft Planet section, but ideally, I'd love to see the Chiefs pick up Wilfork as a free agent (though not overpay him a la Haynesworth (what a complete pile of steaming monkey shit by the way)), trade Dorsey for a second and third (if that is possible at this point) to a 4-3 team, use our high second round pick on a guy like Jared Odrick of Penn State, then with the other two second rounders pick up Daryll Washington of TCU at ILB and Von Miller of Texas Tech. Then you could use the third rounders on guys like Beadles (who I think is the best O lineman in this draft regardless), Johnson (best guard in this draft IMO), Tennant, Petrus, and the like.

Wishful thinking...

wiegmann didn't fit the system, the real mistake is that we didn't draft anyone worth a crap to replace.

Losing any player feels like a huge loss if you don't do anything to replace them.

Another possibility, although I haven't heard anything yet, is that Pittsburgh could decide to move on at the NT position. That's probably a long shot, too, but Hampton wasn't given an extension and this was his contract year. Of course, Denver will probably get into the bidding if any top end NT springs loose this year, so that will have an impact on price, if nothing else.

I believe Tennant has more upside than Niswanger, but my point is they have the same profile. Tennant, like Niswanger, plays tall and has trouble with bull-rushing DT's. The biggest problem on the line is Niswanger inability to stop the bull-rush and Tennant would not be immediate improvement. There are too many needs to draft a center in round 2 (that is where I believe he will go) that needs to develop. But, I would be happy with him in the third round or later.

John Estes would be a good pick in later rounds, but I think Wade Smith could make a more immediate impact at Center and this appears to be a good draft for guards.

I guess its just my uninformed eyes that could tell when Waters was going to pull vs Denver because he cheated back a step, at least once further into the backfield than the OTs.

I guess its just my uninformed eyes that has watched the oline, including Waters whiffing blocks and assignments including some basic protection principles (block inside to out) etc.

I guess its my uninformed eyes that have noticed Waters committing more penalties this past season, and Niswanger being thrown into the backfield play after play. Maybe it was uninformed eyes that screamed 2/3 season that Mike Goff was horrible, the RTs not named O'Callahan looked like they had on concrete shoes.

Did they improve the last 3-4 games...yeah. Did they suck compared to a GOOD NFL Offensive line. Yes, they were offensive to watch.

yep ... Waters has lost a step

maybe waters was so pissed off about the coaching stuff that he didn't get into the same shape he normally does or maybe he's just old but he can't really be a impartial judge right now.

The only reason he is saying this is because he knows that is exactly what needs to happen.

I understand that Waters isnt going to come out and say "Yeah my unit sucks, we need to be replaced"

But come on.......

I hope he really doesn't think this.....if he thinks no Oline help/upgrades are needed, then I really want to know what positions exactly Waters DOES think needs some upgrading?!?!? Good lord. The Oline was the one of the worst parts of this entire season up til the last 2-3 games. Mankins, Iupati, Fox, Chris Scott (TENN) ALL COME ON DOWN!!!!!

This is what Eddie Kennison said the year before he got released. Hmmmm.

Branden Albert
Logan Mankins
Brian Waters
Mike Iupati
Jason Fox
Chris Scott
Wade Smith
Barry Richardson

This should be our Oline depth next season

I think we could get by with just a couple Offensive Line additions.

Waters is always professional. Haley could learn a lot from the guy.

You mean like when he showed up at Arrowhead, un-invited during the off season, right after a new coach and GM took over, wanting to get things ironed out?

Yes. Imagine that, the veteran team leader who flies in on his own time and dime to meet with the new coach and in return gets verbally slapped in the face and treated like a child. The very same head coach who would throw tantrums all season long, fire the OC a week before the season starts and struggle on offense the rest of the season.

nailed it

what in the hell does Waters have to do with changing the coaches?

if waters really wants to get thing iron out he can stop missing blocks.

Jeez, Mr. Chiefnj2. You're an awesome Planeteer with posting prowess that is the envy of internet users throughout the world, but come on ...

That whole thing was Whittle's version of events. Nobody but Nick Athan knows the real story. Clearly, Waters wasn't treated like the superstar, in-his-prime, game-changing, left guard that he is, but when all the smoke cleared and the chips hit the floor and the fat lady belted out high C after clutching her giant panties in one hand and a dead rat in the other, Waters showed up for camp and did his job (not so well, I might add). So, whatever happened couldn't have been all that bad.

Besides, if Haley did indeed state that he could win 2 games with 22 guys off the street, he essentially proved that claim to be correct. We've gone through years of Uncle Dick's weeping and unwarranted loyalty and Herm's "player friendly until it's time to throw your ass under the bus" approach. It was past time to bring in a guy who could crack the whip and get these guys to either shape up or hit the bricks.

FAX

The problem is, he showed up two days before the draft was to happen without an appointment and under contract wanting to know what the new regime was planning. Busiest time of the season for a brand new admin and coach and he shows up unannounced and uninvited and wants a sit down with the brass about the direction of the team? As an aging guard that's already under contract? That's ridiculous.

Bingo. In fact, Haley showed it was possible to win FOUR games with 22 guys off the street and do something that Dick or Herm was unable to do - win at Invesco (with the playoffs on the line to boot!).

Because fact of the matter is, top to bottom, the Chiefs are probably the least talented team in the league. The offensive line is made of one first round draft pick that's playing out of position (Albert), and a converted free agent full back that made his name playing between Roaf and Weigmann (Waters), and a bunch of first day cut cast offs from various teams. Linebackers? Other than an overachieving converted 4-3 LDE, an aging ROLB forced to play SSOLB (Vrabel) because your former frist round draft pick at SSOLB only decides to show up twice a year (Johnson), there's a bunch of special teamers at best at the rest of the positions (Mays, Williams) and one rookie who shows a little promise (Belcher). Tight end? Please. Defensive line? Rookie and a bunch of guys playing in the wrong scheme. Safety? Tragic.

I mean, other than Flowers, Cassel, Charles (who was finally given a chance due to LJ's ineptitude), Vrabel, Hali and possibly Albert, it would be hard to find anyone on this team that could/would challenge for a starting position on another team in the league. Jackson might, but he's a rook and had the learning curve thrown at him. Dorsey is so obviously out of position it borders on sad - please trade him for his sake and the teams sake.

Four games with 22 guys off the street. I think Haley short changed himself.

Albert is not out of position.