Getting The Band Back Together
 

Exact words from The Doug Gottlieb Show about Pioli's proclivity for hiring guys from "The Tree".

It's also a tried and true method in the NFL over the last couple of decades. Let's take a look at how getting the band back together worked out.

Walsh, Bill. Almost single-handedly built the 49er Dynasty. Was lured back to SF from 1999-2001 as GM. The team experienced moderate success over this time, going 12-4 in 2001, but not winning a playoff game during his tenure.

Vermeil, Dick. Tried to rebuild the '99 Rams with the 2001-2005 Chiefs. Had 2/5 winning seasons and a winning record overall, but never won a playoff game.

Holmgren, Mike. Assumed full control of the Seahawks after leaving GB. Even traded for his old backup QB in the process. Although the team achieved a SB berth, this was after Holmgren had been stripped of his GM duties in 2002, and Bob Ferguson took over.

Policy, Carmen. Former "Executive of the Year" from SF was lured to rebuild the Cleveland Browns. Installed former SF Buddy Dwight Clark as GM. Crashed and burned like the ****ing Hindenburg.

Johnson, Jimmy. The man who built the 90's Cowboys was charged with building the late 90's Dolphins into something Shula couldn't for the last 25 years--a SB champion. Johnson brought in his old assistants towards the end (Wannstedt) but could never match the success he had in Dallas. Ended his tenure with a 62 point ass raping from the Jags.

When the Romeo hire is made official, we need a poll to gauge the expectations for next season.

We will have all of Pioli's guys, and he will have had over one full year to evaluate and another year with a top 5 draft position.

So what's the expectation level? And what will the excuses be?

Pioli to KC fans...

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If he get's both chubbies on board...anything less than .500 is a failure...

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Worst case scenario, we have DL depth now with Weiss and if Crennel joins as well!

the same as any 2nd year rebuilding regime should be. 8-8.

Holmgren is going to do this in Cleveland too. I just heard on NFL Network that Mornhinweg is a possibility as HC. LMAO Sorry Browns fans...

Fair enough. Then again, when Belichick got the New England job, he hired his same buddies from his days with the Giants, Cleveland, and the Jets, rather than going and hiring fresh guys he hadn't worked with, and won himself three rings.

I think hiring guys just for the sake of familiarity can lead to issues. If these are Pioli's hires and not Haley's, we're going to have issues, just like we did when Carl convinced DV to hire Dumbther. But if these guys are the best guys to implement the system you want in place and coach the guys you are going to give them, then it can work.

At the end of the day, regardless of who we hire, we need to acquire talent. The players are the ones who win the Bowls. Just ask Shanarat what he was able to win after Elway and TD...

I think we all know which one Haley is.ROFL


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Then you might want to look at NE's organizational philosophy before signing off.

Doug Gotlieb is a douche who also said Nebraska football would never be good again. **** him.

And Crennel & Weis are upgrades so I don't see how fans can be unhappy about getting better?

Memo to Fat Scott... TALENT wins, not coaches.

Look at the 4 teams with byes in the playoffs this year... coached by the likes of Norv Turner, Jim Caldwell, Sean Payton and Brad Childress.

None of those guys are going to conjur up images of Vince Lombardi.

All those teams are the top teams in their respective conferences primarily because of the talent they possess on the field... and not as much because of the coaching staff on the sideline.

What is the point here? That once you are successful in the NFL, you can never be again?

Hot damn, here's an idea... someone should tell Pioli... that he might try upgrading the talent... I bet he hadn't considered doing this...

WE'RE ON A MISSION FROM GOD!!!!!!!!!!
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that's really dumb....there is no measurable variable called "getting coaches back together" or whatever you and "NFL guru" Doug Gottlieb want to call it...

the reasons for failure are the same everywhere, always, and have nothing to do with whether or not coaches had previously co-habitated..

people fail because they make bad decisions, execute poorly, lack forsesight and imagination, and/or are simply incompetent...along with the variables of the players they coach who fail for the same reasons...add in the GM, the franchises proclivity to spend $$$, their ability to draft talent, etc, relative talent levels of other teams in the league, and you get a workable batch of interconnected reasons for why a regime at a certain time and place succeeds or fails...

it has dick to do with them previously working together...literally nothing...your grasp of logic is so ****ing poor it makes me want to listen to the same goth music you must have been listening to when you posted this embarrassing nonsense....

maybe people on the planet could pull their ****ing heads out of their asses for awhile.....****

plus KU is losing to Cornell, which is way more important right now

Good

HEY! I like a band that could play good music.

I can't wait to hear that music..all we need now are the proper set of drums, guitars, keyboards, mics, all the right equipment necessary and its rock and roll!!! SHOWTIME!!!!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Define irony. The guy who says that people fail because they lack imagination and foresight tells me my logic is horrible.

I am ok with it. our HC is a new guy, so i am fine with it. If he doesnt work. so the **** what, it hasnt worked for 40 years whats another few.

Another few could mean the differenece between seeing another Championship in our lifetime, or watching it from the hereafter.

OK, #1 Vermeil took the EAGLES to a superbowl and then won one with St Louis THEN came to KC.

Holmgren (as you stated) made it back to the superbowl... pretty damn good.

..and I notice three names missing...

Parcells, Shula and Reeves.

so, it looks about 50/50... which I am fine with saying that the argument holds no water... we are left to judge the coaches based on what they will/won't bring to the table NOW ...not any past garbage. (as a positive or negative)

Unfortunately, neither has been an OC/DC the last few years... so impossible to judge accurately... just guessing at this point.

We'll only KNOW the answer a few months into next season... maybe sooner if Weis is gonna run the exact same offense that Haley runs.

Past Superbowls do not translate into either good or poor performance the next time around. Period.

God forbid we try and upgrade the coaching staff.

LMAO

Are Weis and Crennel not qualified enough for you Hamas? Holy Christ...

My expectations for next year? As of right now...

8-8

My question is... can't we up grade our coaches AND talent? Why cry about upgrading our coaches now? We are so jaded as Chiefs fans we can't even appreciate what we have in front of us. Who gives a rip if we are bringing the band back together... it is a hell of a lot better than we have had in YEAAARRRSSS!

Btw, my expectations are also 8-8 next season.

Wha??

Parcells never won a playoff game w/o Belichick. Not one. Despite having the same guys almost everywhere else wherever he went, he never replicated that success.

Dan Reeves wasn't calling the shots in Atlanta (Harold Richardson, a Reeves crony took over after the team was built and proceeded to destroy it), nor was Vermeil calling the shots in Philly or St. Louis. In fact, the area where Vermeil had the most input is where he had the least success: KC.

I don't think that Weis is a bad hire, nor did I ever claim he was. He's not at the top of my list, but he's not a panacea by any stretch of the imagination. Crennel, however is not a good hire. His defenses in Cleveland were shit, and he was basically a figurehead in New England. The only good thing about Crennel is that he does have a lot of time as a DL coach, and there's no way he could be any worse than Tim Krumrie.

What bothers me is what has always bothered me:

Out of all the coaching candidates, Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel are the two that you pick. Out of all the players on waiver after cuts, Ryan O'Callaghan is the only one you pick.

You can't build a championship team from the scraps of a fallen dynasty, and yet Pioli seems to think that you can.

Where's the originality and the adaptability here?

We have in front of us a team that has won 10 games the past 3 seasons.

I am not exactly sold on Crennel either... He was good in New England but crap in Cleveland as a DC and upon his return to Cleveland as a HC... they didn't exactly set the world on fire on D...

I also don't think we should be married to the Patriots 3-4.. I'd rather see a modified Phillips 3-4 ... which means I'd rather see a coach familiar with it...

I'd love Wade Phillips but he likely saved his job in Dallas...

Oh my god, **** yes.

The 2010 Chiefs Highlight Film will be intro'd with the A-TEAM: Pioli, Haley, Weis and Crennel.

(note how I listed the black man last)

But yeah, Pioli is a bald Hannibal, Haley is Howling Mad Murdoch, Weis is a fattened up Face and Crennel is Jumbo Mr. T.

SO ****ING AWESOME.

There is no way that anyone can predict already what our record is gonna be for next year already. That is a ridiculous guess at best.

i am ok though. I seen my Lakers win 6 titles and the dodgers one. Most people cant enjoy at least that in a life time. I would love to see the Chiefs win it all, but for me, it is whqt it is, i cant change anything. I could get all crazy like the thread starter, but for what? whats it going to accomplish? thats right. Nothing.

How would you feel if we hired Dat Nguyen as DC?

Young, smart, knows the 3-4...

I meant this originally as a joke... but now that I think about it...

I think expectations can definitely bet set, once Romeo is inked and the official NE reunion tour is launched.

Produce or get the **** out.

....it's still a joke.

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/44...0.400x451.jpeg


Do eet!

I'd say they need to make the playoffs by 2011.

Doing it next year would inspire a lot more confidence.

Hard to stomach an A&M playing, Cowboy coaching guy with a funny name... but the dude is smart as hell and I am at a loss to think of any AVAILABLE Phillips 3-4 guys... anyone else in the NFL playing a 1-gap 3-4 like the cowgirls?

My original expectations were:

2009: 4-12

2010: 7-9

2011: 10-6 or 11-5 & win a playoff game

2012: Go very deep into the playoffs


That was before I realized that Pioli was going to grab every ex-Patriot swinging dick he could find.

These are ALL his people.

No excuses, now.

I mentioned one earlier today.

Reggie Herring

Nice, Dat's boss... yeah I'd be more than happy with that hiring as well.

Hell, bring Herring and Dat over at the same time... Herring as DC .. Dat as Linebackers coach. Or would you keep Gibbs?

I really don't know what to think, has anything like this ever even been done before? I'm not sure any of those are great comparisons. You could just as easily flip those particular comparisons... Dungy took his act to Indy and won. Gruden took his act to Tampa and won. Sure those were some differences... but it's not like Bill Walsh and Mike Holmgren had the exact same mix either. Heck, the biggest comparison of all is Belichick took his act to New England and created the dynasty of our generation. Parcells didn't win it all but he took his band of merry men and made contenders out of New England and New York when they were complete dog feces.

This is a fairly unique situation, and I'm not confident there's any precedent to sit there and look at and say "This is what's going to happen." It's still up to Pioli and Haley to make good decisions.

Gruden left behind a shitload of people in Oakland. Dungy cycled through his coaches several times before hitting the right mix in Indy.

Of course here's the point that people are missing:

We've basically put the roadies to the Beatles in Arrowhead, and are expecting Paul and John to produce the White Album in the next decade.

Well, unfortunately Paul and John are still in Boston.

I love Dat Nguyen as LB coach...even if he is VC.

Lets hire Joe Vitt

We need all the sad ****s on our defense to take a death march.

Where was Wipe on this Claythan?

Paul and John were not the Beatles. George and Ringo were there to. It takes a whole team. And besides, it could be like The Yardbirds, where one group has Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck AND Jimmy Page... and Jimmy goes and forms his own band as a lead guitarist (but not lead vocalist like Eric).

LOL this is funny.

The problem with these guys is they already got their own chances to succeed and failed..so now they're coming here.

I will say this is a make it or break it type of move because with all the failures of the Pats assistants putting a bunch of them on the same staff with a GM from there...if this fails people are going to really start to crap on the NE guys.

Yesterday at 9 AM it was on our board. That good enough for you?

kill yourself.

Its all about the classic question, "What makes New England GREAT instead of just good?" Its funny how a LOT of the questions on here are rehashes of the same 4 or 5 core issues. Its a "philosophy of sports," if you will.

:bong:ROFL

I guess you don't like my analogy as much as yours?

If you assemble a GM and a coaching staff comprised heavily of NE guys and it fails, Bill Belichick will then get even more credit as being the only coach that matters there.

No, it's pretty ****ing simple.

Tom Brady+Bill Belichick.

Meanwhile, all the lemmings seem to think that as long as you have the high explosives and the casing that you can just will the fissile material into place for the nuclear bomb.

Well you can't, and it's never coming here, so find a different way.

What way do you propose?

I mean really lets go hire Al Groh and Eric Mangini too, I'm sure that'll take us places.

Hiring a GM from a mid-market team who built its core via the draft.

We should have hired someone from Baltimore (DeCosta) or Pittsburgh (Doug Whaley, Ron Hughes) not a guy from a team who fell into the luckiest pick in NFL history who supplemented their team through FA with a mediocre draft record.

Hamas...

Here's an idea.

Listening?

??

Ready?

GET
OVER
...
IT!

JFC

Hootie, here's an idea:

Die of gang rape in a prison shower.

I'm so mad we hired Pioli blah blah blah we shoulda hired someone else blah blah blah I'm going to shit over every Chiefs related thread because we didn't hire who I wanted blah blah blah I teach college kids I have zero football credentials whatsoever blah blah blah

sweet... now let's hope for a Dallas loss to Philly so they are available in time. NOW... since we are putting together our preferred defense... who would we hire as d-line coach?

Bruce Clark? Bruce Smith? Trying to think of former 3-4 players of Wade's and can't come up with any that have coaching experience...

But since we didn't and we have the GM we do now, what do you propose? Is the team a total wash now cause we don't have a GM from a mid-market team?

And you think Kraft and Belichick are responsible solely for the front office success in New England, but you don't feel the same about the Rooneys and Cowher? I'm inclined to believe the success of the Steelers is from having a few key people as well. All of the others are plug-and-play.

You are literally so ****ing stupid I don't know how you breathe.

I see Hootie is using his draft weekend posting approach year round now.

Well, my preferred D is a 4-3, but if you had to get a 3-4, the best 3-4 DL coach is John Mitchell, but he's been in Pittsburgh since Cowher was hired.

well if hamas and OTWP feel like being redundant all year I guess I'll follow their lead

Redundant would be you ****ing your pig with hairgel you greaser.

I thought Billay was about to call Hootie a guido.

ok not preferred but of the Phillips 3-4 guys... (I actually really do like the Phillips 3-4 for it's aggression and flexibility... PLUS you aren't tied to a fatass NT)

I am trying to think of someone who isn't currently coaching d-line at the NFL level... which pretty much leaves us with former d-linemen or college coaches... unless there is an asst d-line coach I'm unaware of.

Maybe this is where people think we should take one of those D-Line coaches and make them our coordinator???

New England has great ownership, Belichick and Tom Brady.

We have none of those.

Indianapolis has great ownership, a great front office (who built 3 contenders) and Peyton Manning.

Pittsburgh has great ownership, Polamalu, Hampton, and Roethlisberger.

Our problem is that we have no organizational philosophy aside from "Just do exactly what happened in New England".

Well, no two scenarios are exactly the same.

The reason why a guy like Mike Tomlin is a good coach is b/c he's a Tampa 2 guy but he realizes his talent works best in a 3-4, so he doesnt' **** with it. Pittsburgh also drafts to the strength of the draft (which is why they drafted multiple OL in the mid-late rounds last year, and got a guy like Mike Wallace and a better 5 tech at 32 than we did at 3)

Why isn't Clark Hunt a great owner?

It just blows my mind that you can point out several draft built cap savvy teams, Colts, Ravens, Eagles, Packers, Pittsburgh..

And we hire people from the franchise that tripped assbackwards into it's QB and masks it's draft failures by using it's big market cash.

One of those teams is not like the others, one of those teams does not have a repeatable strategy.