Bill Simmons on Tom Brady/Matt Cassel
 

ROFL

Yep, sounds like a Boston fan.

Awsome

Hootie, LET IT GO.

Simmons also said he has an inside source that Moss is gone.

LMAO

I figured Moss played his last game in New England after his performance last week.

There was a portion of the Patriot fanbase at the end of 2008 who were actually asking what the Patriots could get for Brady. Cassel had played that well and won over the fanbase that much. People up there are still pissed the Patriots only got a 2nd for Cassel and Vrabel. For Chiefs fans to not get that Cassel did indeed show what he could do with a good supporting cast and good coaching and that what he was thrown into this year with a rookie head coach, no OC, a shit line, and a shit supporting cast basically reflects the football ignorance of Chiefs fans.
Yes. Cassel had a bad year.
But yes there were reasons and he needs and deserves a second year. If he fails this year then by all means flame away on him.
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It makes sense to get rid of a HOF qb that brought the team 3 superbowls when the whole team played like crap...

It just makes me happy as an avid fan of the NFL to see Brady finally looked upon as what he is...

A good QB who played in a great system with all of the right pieces and was the leader of a dynasty...

but not an all-time great.

agreed

Now we find out Cassel also plays safety
****

ROFL dude just stop. Please.

You are a ****ing moron.
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All this fighting over Peyton and Brady to find out Mr playoff clutch is Kurt Warner

Cassel/Brady kinda reminds me of the Montana/Young situation, exept they gave us the younger one this time

Define "not an all time great". Does that mean non HOF caliber? Or does it mean not in the top 5 all time discussion?

All time great to me would mean top 3-5 of all time. I mean shit even Jim Kelly and Elway are in the hall, and they're nowhere near the top 5

LMAO.

Yea Brady could never compare to your boy Huard. Christ I really believe that you can't top your level of stupidity but time and time again you prove me wrong. Don't you have an electrical outlet in your house(oh sorry I mean hotel room you rent by the week) you could be licking?

FYP

One thing I've noticed and find quite interesting are when teams have these cancer type players like R.Moss, Owens, LJ, or a guy like Mike Vick for example and never win anything.

It's got to be some sort of bad omen when these guys come to play for good teams and then those team just don't accomplish anything.

Well done, sir.

Hey...we should hope for the best you know lol

Damn I agree with you for once.
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Elway not top 5? You are about as ****ing stupid as Hootie and CoMo.
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Well in Moss' defense he did set a record for TD's while his team was going undefeated in the regular season. Not to mention he has been a perfect citizen while he has been in NE. I know alot of people want to say Moss is the problem in NE but the fact is their defense has dropped off a cliff in the past year and a half.

Yeah, Moss only caught the TD pass from Brady to put the Patriots ahead in the SB with 2 minutes to play before the defense coughed it up. You are blaming Moss for the Patriots not going 19-0 that year?

I also love all this revisionist history. After 2007 Brady was being called one of the top 2 of all time after his 50 TD passes. He get a knee injury and now he's not even on the top 5 or 10. Sure, today he may not be. But it doesn't take away where he was 2 years ago.
And I love how Kurt Warner is suddenly clutch with his 9 playoff wins and Brady isn't with his 14. Talk about "what have you done for me lately?"
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Btw, I wonder if Manning gags again tonight.
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And his obvious landing place IS.........

Yeah that's pretty reeruned. Any top 5 list that isn't among Montana,Unitas,Elway,Brady,and Manning is ****ed up in my opinion.
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I have always suspected this all along. It may be quite true.

He's definitely HOF caliber...but he's a full tier below, at least, behind the all-time greats.

And the all-time greats are probably a full tier below Peyton Manning.

You, and the Patriot fan base don't get it.

I've acknowledged many times that Cassel has the talent to be a good game manager with surrounding talent, possibly a very good game manager.

You might compete for, and even win, a SB with a game manager (Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson), but to consistently copmpete at that level, you need a playmaking franchise QB.

Now you might not agree with the opinion that Cassel is not franchise potential, but those of us who believe he is only game manager are pissed that Pioli hitched his wagon to a guy who appears to only have game manager potential.

I tell you what, anyone who wouldn't want Moss here is NUTS. Moss,Bowe,Chambers,and Charles. Holy shit!!!
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Finally found something we can agree on.

I wouldn't want Moss here...

No thanks.

Dude its bradys fault pollard barreled into his knee. If he had the pocket awareness of say, a peyton manning, he wouldve dodged it and threw a td.

Its also his fault that the defense played at a high school level for most of the season.

Concur.

Even the biggest Patriots fan (Bill Simmons) will tell you Peyton Manning is the better QB...

and he's a huge Boston homer...

but milkman, pioli zombie and ChiefsCountry know differently!

I completely missed this.

Elway is in the conversation for best player of all-time, not just QB.

Wow.

Again What was the alternative??? Even Sanchez is at best a game manager.
And you just said game managers have won super bowls. Brady was in 2001. All I'm saying is give the guy an OC and a decent supporting cast and a ****ing chance if after this year the Chiefs aren't at least 8-8 and Cassel hasn't improved a ton then flame away. But to make these judgements that he and Pioli are failures already is assinine.
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OK off topic: Unless there's a long history between you and Hootie that I'm unaware of with him sucker punching you with insults why couldn't you just simply disagree with his point?
:shake:

****, Hootie, saying that Manning is better is a little different from saying that Brady is essentially a game manager.

Hootie, if you were any more stupid, they'd put you on display in the Smithsonian.

Cause America is a great place where exceptional stupidity is rewarded.

Hootie, for christ sake, please stop saying dumb things.

Im agreeing that peyton is AMONG Them, hes a great qb, but his playoff record alone doesnt put him above them.

yikes, this one has stupidity written all over it....

At best? LMAO. Yeah, his ceiling is pretty well defined.

That said, of course Cassel needs more tools/weapons surrounding him.

Oh for ****s sake,Hootie. Yes. In 2009,Manning is better. But over their careers they are BOTH top 5 of all time qbs and over their career I'd take Brady in the big games.
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To say that Brady is just a game manager is just dumb. The man threw for 50 TDs. If that is a game manager sign me up.

Peyton Manning was sacked 10 times this season...

10 times.

And do you think that is a testament to his offensive line?

Because I certainly don't...

That offense line is MEDIOCRE...

I love Aaron Rodgers...I think he's great...I bet someone on this board last year he'd have a QB rating over 90 (when they ended up going 6-10 and he posted a 91+ rating)...I knew he was going to be a great QB...

Put Aaron Rodgers behind the Colts line and he gets sacked around the same amount of times he was sacked behind his line in Green Bay.

Hey...

You want to bail Brady out of his poor performance because of his knee injury...or because of his "lack" of weapons (and I'll lol at that all day long)...or because of his shitty offensive line...

But the truth is...Manning never would have suffered that knee injury because he never would have put himself in that situation...he knows he's too important to that team...

and you know what...

Peyton Manning had the worst supporting cast I've ever seen in my life last season for the first 10 weeks and he SINGLE-HANDEDLY kept that team alive and they ended up winning 12 games...

He had absolutely NO protection and he was still getting rid of the ball and making plays DESPITE a non-existant running game and a WR2 (Harrison) who was 1000% washed up and missing two gigantic steps from his game...

Just sit back and watch Peyton Manning play that same Ravens defense at home tonight (just like Brady last week) and see what he does...

But then I'm sure it's just because he has the better "weapons" and better "supporting cast"...

What I'm saying is that even if there wasn't an alternaitve in the last draft, then you build a team with the players you have on hand, and hope to land a franchise QB in the next draft or two.

You don't give away a 2nd round pick for a (What?) 28 year old game manager on a team that is so devoid of talent that he'll be in his 30s before the team is ready to compete.

Lets be honest...

The Patriots win when they ask Brady to manage games...

The Patriots lose when they depend on Brady to win games.

Every single game the Colts play they depend on Peyton to win games.

Can anyone argue this?

What a load of horse shit. Anyone buying?

It's football, Hootie. Players get hit, and sometimes unlucky shit happens.

The SB run would argue with this.

Manning did everything he could to give away two playoff games.

and that's why Peyton Manning has never, ever, EVER missed a game? Ever.

???

Lets be honest...

and Tom Brady has always been very non-injury prone as well...

Some players just won't get injured...

Peyton Manning senses pressure better than any QB EVER and he doesn't take hits, and when he does, he knows when they are coming and he instinctively protects himself from injury.

Plain and simple.

Other than draining his knee last offseason...has he ever even been on an injury report?

The guy is a freak of nature. He has QB in his DNA.

This entire post is funny. Peyton wouldnt put himself in that situation because hes a pussy in the pocket when pressures around.

Part of managing the game is repeatedly hitting the go route?

and bottom line, you can argue that Manning has only delivered once in the playoffs in the clutch when the game was on the line at the end.

Brady has delivered several times.

Agreed, if the Bears didn't have Grossman that Super Bowl was thiers

He gets rid of the ball quickly, no question.

But Brady had gotten rid of it, too, before Pollard went into his knee. Just unlucky.

someone please ban this guy. Jesus christ. Tom brady is a game manager now.

No !@#$.

Anyone that doesn't have Elway in their top 3 isn't worth listening to.

These two games you reference...

Did the Chiefs EVER, EVER, AT ANY POINT IN THAT GAME...make the Colts or Manning have to work for it?

At no point was that game ever in doubt for the Colts. So regardless of the final stat sheet...this doesn't count. This was an exhibition game if I've ever seen one...

and then...against Baltimore...

Again...Peyton was never even put to the test.

When the Colts finally needed him...he stepped up against the Patriots and they won on a beautiful 4th quarter TD drive by Peyton Manning and then he played well in the Super Bowl...

So I don't get this argument.

Just remember...for every "clutch" moment Brady had (and I guess we'll count his 20 yard scoring drives in the Super Bowls to set up 45+ yard FG's by Vinatieri)...I can also name a game in the postseason where he "choked"...

I can't believe that whole myth about Brady being clutch even exists.

Manning is a more natural QB than Brady no doubt.....but to say Brady is a game manager and isn't all that, well my friends...that is dumb..

Yeah, scoring drives, plural, in the ****ing SB no less...tend to have that effect.

This reminds me of when people try to argue that Roethlisberger is NOT a franchise QB.

So basically your saying its ok to let bad teams back in the game repeatedly.

Right.

That's a big pile of dumb right there.

He threw three interceptions to the worst defense in the league in the first round of the playoffs.

And I've pointed this out a number of times.

Manning, of all the great QBs of the last 20 years is the only one, other than Favre, whose playoff QB rating is lower than his regular season QB rating.

He, more than any great QB, shrinks in the face of consistent pressure.

It's why he could never get past the Patriots earlier in his career before their defense began their decline, and why he hasn't been able to get past the Chargers.

What has Brady delivered? I just find this funny...

He threw 1 TD pass in the entire postseason (if I remember correctly) the year they won their first Super Bowl...

I'm sorry...if it wasn't for the "tuck rule" and Adam Vinatieri...the legend of Tom Brady might not even exist.

Dude stumbles into a perfect situation, fools the majority of football fans, and now the stubborn ones can't just admit Tom Brady is a better game manager than playmaking QB.

What was Tom Brady when they won their first Super Bowl?

A game manager?

or a franchise QB?

Yeah Brady was being a game manager in Super Bowl 38 when he threw for like 330 yards. And he was a game manager when he threw for 4,800 yards and 50 TD passes.
Hootie just drink a glass of milk and shut up.
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ROFLROFLROFL

So QB rating is your argument here?

Did you watch the past two postseason losses by the Colts against the Chargers?

And you're saying Peyton Manning is the reason why they couldn't get past the Chargers? Somehow he didn't rise to the occasion?

Hahaha..

Well we can't argue that Tom Brady's Super Bowl performance in 2007 isn't one of the biggest choke jobs of all time?

Not only was a Super Bowl on the line...but a perfect season? And captain clutch turned in his WORST performance of the year?

In 2001 he was a game manager. Since then he has been much more than that you putz.
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Again, how many times can you argue that manning has delivered in the clutch in the playoffs?

Once.

And yes, Brady has failed in the clutch, as well.

But regardless of the time and distance, and score needed, he has delivered more often, by far, than Manning.

The guy caught the football with his ****ing helmet on a perfectly defended pass......you really want to go there with this one?? :shake:

Peyton had good playoff game, he clutch now/ hootie

So let me get this straight...

Peyton Manning wasn't clutch against the Chiefs in 2003 in the no punt game?

Or does that not count?

What are we counting here?

Super Bowl wins?

Yeah...Brady has 3 and Manning has 1.

Terry Bradshaw has more than Brady so I guess he is more clutch and even better than Tom Brady!

This Super Bowl bullshit is just that...bullshit.

Hey a great QB is definitely a key to winning Super Bowls...but it's not the be all end all...

All I know is one of these QB's had the benefit of the most clutch kicking in NFL history for half a decade...and the other had Mike Vanderjagt...who once had a chance to tie a game in the playoffs for the Colts to force an OT...only to push a chipshot about 50 yards right...

But Brady is clutch and Manning never delivers...his one Super Bowl is only because he faced Rex Grossman...

If not for the ****ing miracle play that will never ever ever happen again that wouldnt be an issue.

The most damning evidence of Tom Brady as a truly historic QB is Matt Cassel.

We all saw how severely lacking Matt Cassel is this season, yet in the Patriots system he won 11 games and threw for 3700 yards.

I saw a system that inflates a QBs performance by a solid 10-20%.

I guess the question you have to ask is - could the Colts have ever gone 11-5 with Jim Sorgi?

Brady sits at 11 on my all-time QB list. And ultimately I will listen to any argument that puts Warner over him as well (best pure passer of my lifetime and a guy that would've been untouchable in that NE system). Brady's a HOFer and an elite QB, but the Peyton v. Manning debate is closed, it's no contest.