ESPN insider McShay's Mock
 

More Okung. Berry to 7




Originally Published: February 10, 2010
O-line and D-line take over top 10
Updated top 10 includes only one skill player and one defensive back
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McShay By Todd McShay
ESPN.com
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Much has been made of the strength of the 2010 defensive tackle class, and the fact that the first two picks in Scouts Inc.'s latest first-round projection are defensive tackles is no surprise.

However, the offensive tackles are coming on strong, and we now project four offensive tackles to come off the board in the first eight picks. Add a pair of defensive ends to the players mentioned above, and you have eight linemen among the first 10 picks.

That leaves little room at the top for skill players and defensive backs, and some of the biggest names on our board have slipped significantly in our latest projection.

Here's how we see things shaking out now that the college all-star games are over and prospects are preparing for the upcoming NFL combine.


St. Louis Rams

Record: 1-15
Gerald McCoy*, DT, Oklahoma

The Rams have a poor track record when it comes to drafting defensive linemen early, and now they have a tough choice to make between the stronger, more instinctive Ndamukong Suh and the quicker, more disruptive McCoy. Coach Steve Spagnuolo is looking for defensive linemen who can penetrate, which is why we think McCoy could be the top overall pick.
Detroit Lions

Record: 2-14
Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska

The Lions will gladly take Suh here. He won't provide the pass-rush production of McCoy, but he is a force versus the run and he consistently disrupts passing windows thanks to his excellent instincts and long arms.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Record: 3-13
Jason Pierre-Paul*, DE, South Florida

The Bucs will consider Tennessee S Eric Berry here, but they are in dire need of a speed rusher and Pierre-Paul is the most explosive one this draft class has to offer.
Washington Redskins

Record: 4-12
Anthony Davis*, OT, Rutgers

Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford has enough physical and mental tools to develop into a good NFL starter eventually. However, he also enters the league with enough question marks (shoulder injury, spread offensive system, etc.) for a team like the Redskins to pass and fill one of several other holes. Solidifying its offensive line should be Washington's top priority, and Davis is the most naturally gifted tackle in this year's deep group. Two other options at tackle are Russell Okung (Oklahoma State) and Bryan Bulaga (Iowa).
Kansas City Chiefs

Record: 4-12
Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State

Berry could make a huge impact in the Chiefs' secondary as well, but Kansas City has too much work still to do at core positions to spend No. 5 money on a safety. The offensive line needs to be solidified, and that could happen by bringing in Okung, who has a quick first step, good power and a mean streak.
Seattle Seahawks

Record: 5-11
Bryan Bulaga*, OT, Iowa

Look for Seattle to pass on a quarterback in the top 10 for the second straight year. Finding a replacement for Walter Jones at left tackle is the more immediate need, and the team will get a safer prospect there than at quarterback. Bulaga still has room to improve in pass protection, but he displays the feet and balance to develop into a very good overall starting left tackle in the NFL.
Cleveland Browns

Record: 5-11
Eric Berry*, S, Tennessee

Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant will be tough to pass up here, but the Browns did spend a pair of second-round picks on WRs Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi last year. Berry has the talent and experience to make the kind of impact for the Browns that perennial Pro Bowler Ed Reed made for the Ravens early in his career.
Oakland Raiders

Record: 5-11
Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma

Considering the team has used high draft picks on a quarterback (JaMarcus Russell), running back (Darren McFadden) and wide receiver (Darrius Heyward-Bey) in recent years, it would make sense to shift the focus to the offensive line this April. Both of the Raiders' starting offensive tackles (Mario Henderson and Cornell Green) are below average, and Williams has the physical tools and toughness to provide an upgrade at one of those two spots immediately.
Buffalo Bills

Record: 6-11
Sam Bradford*, QB, Oklahoma

Offensive tackle and quarterback are chief among the Bills' needs, and they should draft a tackle if Davis, Okung or Bulaga is available. This scenario has them selecting the top quarterback prospect in the 2010 class, though. Bradford is a bit of a project because of his slight frame and the spread system he played in at Oklahoma, but he has the football intelligence and accuracy to be molded into a good starter in the NFL.
Jacksonville Jaguars**

Record: 7-9
Derrick Morgan*, DE, Georgia Tech

Morgan will not wow scouts with his results at the combine, but he is a high-motor, technically sound player who can pressure the quarterback and set the edge against the run. He has the physical tools to develop into a good every-down starter at the next level.
Denver Broncos** (from 7-9 Chicago)

Record: 6-7
Dez Bryant*, WR, Oklahoma State

Denver still has needs along its offensive and defensive fronts as well as in the secondary, but it will be tough to pass on the clear-cut No. 1 wideout in this year's class should Bryant fall to the Broncos.
Miami Dolphins

Record: 7-9
Rolando McClain*, ILB, Alabama

Bryant falling to No. 12 would be a dream scenario for the Dolphins, but if he is off the board, look for Miami to target a top talent in the defensive front seven. McClain is NFL-ready with the size, straight-line speed and work ethic to win a starting inside linebacker job immediately.
San Francisco 49ers

Record: 8-8
Joe Haden*, CB, Florida

The 49ers could go in several directions with this pick, including quarterback, offensive line or a pass-rusher, but they wouldn't go wrong taking a top-10 skill player like Haden at this spot.
Seattle Seahawks (from 8-8 Denver)

Record: 5-11
C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson

Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen might be a possibility here, but we do not believe he's worthy of a first-round selection. After finding a left tackle at No. 6, it would make sense for the Seahawks to use this pick on a difference-maker like Spiller. Running backs generally are not worth drafting this high, but Spiller has additional value due to his home run ability as a receiver and return man.
New York Giants

Record: 8-8
Brian Price*, DT, UCLA

The Giants need to retool the middle of their defense, and Price would be a good player to start with. He possesses the quickness and power to develop into a disruptive playmaker who can get into opposing backfields.
San Francisco** (from 8-8 Carolina)

Record: 8-8
Mike Iupati, OT/G, Idaho

Iupati is a fast-rising guard/right tackle prospect who is strong and nasty and would fit in nicely with coach Mike Singletary's hard-nosed brand of football.
Tennessee Titans**

Record: 8-8
Carlos Dunlap*, DE, Florida

Dunlap is a bit immature and there are questions about his work ethic, but he also possesses a rare combination of size and athleticism for a defensive end. The Titans have enough veteran leadership on that side of the ball to pull the trigger here on a developmental project like Dunlap.
Pittsburgh Steelers

Record: 9-7
Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee

The Steelers would like to use this pick on a top offensive line prospect like Iupati or Trent Williams, but with both off the board, they will avoid reaching for another offensive lineman. They also will avoid stretching for a tackle like Maryland's Bruce Campbell to go for value with Dan Williams, who has the size and strength to develop into the eventual replacement for NT Casey Hampton, who is set to become a free agent.
Atlanta Falcons**

Record: 9-7
Kareem Jackson*, CB, Alabama

The Falcons need to improve their secondary talent after getting shredded through the air this past season. Jackson is one of the most underrated prospects in the 2010 class, and has the size, agility and balance to hold up in bump-and-run coverage on the perimeter. Plus, Jackson's instincts and technique are outstanding, so he should be ready to play as a rookie despite leaving school a year early.
Houston Texans**

Record: 9-7
Earl Thomas*, S, Texas

Thomas is undersized but physical enough to play safety in the NFL if used properly. Regardless, he's one of the three most talented defensive backs in the 2010 class, and the Texans could use an upgrade at both free safety and cornerback, so Thomas is a fit no matter where he ends up playing.
Cincinnati Bengals

Record:10-6
Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma

The Bengals are likely to use an early-round selection on a tight end, and while Gresham is a risk due to knee injuries (torn left ACL in high school, season-ending cartilage damage to right knee in 2009), his combination of size and athleticism is rare and he can stretch the seam effectively.
New England Patriots

Record: 10-6
Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

Graham is a bit undersized to play a traditional defensive end role, and he does not have the ideal athleticism you want in an outside linebacker. If used properly, though, Graham can excel in the NFL, and he appears to be in Bill Belichick's wheelhouse with his nonstop motor, excellent technique and good overall football intelligence.
Green Bay Packers

Record: 11-5
Bruce Campbell*, OT, Maryland

Campbell will turn some heads with his performance at the combine. However, while he might have the best combination of physical tools in this year's offensive tackle class, we expect Campbell to slip to the bottom half of the first round due to injury concerns and below-average technique.
Philadelphia Eagles

Record: 11-5
Taylor Mays, S, USC

The Eagles need a replacement for the physical presence former defensive leader Brian Dawkins took with him when he left for Denver. Mays is a bit of a liability in deep coverage and he needs to learn to wrap up more consistently as a tackler, but it is hard to imagine a player with his combination of size, straight-line speed and explosive hitting falling out of the first round.
Baltimore Ravens

Record: 9-7
Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State

Wilson is a fast-rising prospect after showcasing his upper-echelon bump-and-run coverage skills at the Senior Bowl. A cornerback-needy team like the Ravens could easily pull the trigger on Wilson late in the first round.
Arizona Cardinals

Record: 10-6
Sergio Kindle, DE/OLB, Texas

Kindle is a bit overrated, but we do think he is worth a pick at this point in the first round. The Cardinals could put him to work as a situational edge rusher early in his career while he works on getting bigger and stronger in order to hold up better versus the run.
Dallas Cowboys

Record: 11-5
Nate Allen, S, South Florida

Allen is far from a first-round lock, but the Cowboys need to improve their athleticism at safety, and Allen has the right combination of speed and fluidity in coverage to help fix the problem.
San Diego Chargers

Record: 13-3
Jahvid Best*, RB, California

Best's draft stock could take a big hit depending on how the medical reports (back/neck, concussion) from the combine look. Assuming he checks out, Best likely will be high on the Chargers' board, along with Dan Williams, fellow RBs Ryan Mathews (Fresno State) and Jonathan Dwyer (Georgia Tech), and DT/DE Jared Odrick (Penn State). A healthy Best gets the nod thanks to his game-breaking speed.
New York Jets

Record: 9-7
Arrelious Benn*, WR, Illinois

The Jets need perimeter weapons for QB Mark Sanchez to throw to, and Benn is a better prospect than his 2009 production might indicate. He played through a nagging ankle injury and his quarterback was inconsistent, but Benn shows good initial burst and the ability to generate yards after the catch. Still, he needs to be more consistent catching the ball away from his body and must become a more savvy route runner.
Minnesota Vikings

Record: 12-4
Jared Odrick, DT, Penn State

The Vikings have proved they will take the best player available on the board, and in this scenario, Odrick fits the bill and would be groomed as an eventual replacement for aging DT Pat Williams. Other possibilities include Clausen, ILB Brandon Spikes (Florida), TE Anthony McCoy (USC) and C/G Maurkice Pouncey (Florida).
Indianapolis Colts

Record: 14-2
Maurkice Pouncey*, OL, Florida

Odrick would make sense if he was still on the board, or the Colts could reach for an athletic offensive tackle like USC's Charles Brown. But Pouncey is a gifted interior lineman with the quick feet, versatility and football intelligence to help the Colts solidify their interior offensive line.
New Orleans Saints

Record: 13-3
Sean Weatherspoon, OLB, Missouri

Weatherspoon is expected to turn some heads at the combine with his speed, and we're hearing that some teams grade him out as a mid-first-round pick. We're not quite as high on Weatherspoon because we question his ability to play in space, but the Super Bowl champs are expected to focus on upgrading the speed and athleticism of their defense, and Weatherspoon fits the mold.

That's horrible.

**** you sacapoo(mel)
Posted via Mobile Device

Wow, that great Clausenie not even a 1st round pick LMAO

This is why McShay is a bit of a hack. He fully admits he doesn't like Clausen, which is fine, but not including him in the 1st round just makes him look like a moron.

wee-tard-ed

I believe it.

Those OT's go fast in the draft.

Everyone here flipping over solidifying the oline is comical and typical.

Now i wonder about Okung being the best OT.

McShay = McSucks!!

He isn't, I believe it was McShay himself that said Okung would transistion as a RT more than a LT IIRC.

Why does this place fall in love with one player all offseason?

Like Mark Sanchez or Eric Berry would be the answer to all the Chiefs problems.ROFL

http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/8949867189

http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/8061622845

(from former Browns and Ravens scout)

I can say this, if they take Okung they better knock the rest of the draft out of the ****ing park or they are gonna lose fans.

only the stupid fans

i was gonna post something similar to this, only the complete opposite.

LMAO.

The reason why we have ****ing problems is because for the past 20 or so years we've been shitting our pants in the first round taking all these fatass players that don't make any ****ing plays on the field. If we take more Eric Berrys and Mark Sanchezes then the Chiefs can afford to spend first round value on positions like the offensive line.

Wanna know why the Chiefs became much worse when we got rid of our only playmaker on defense in Jared Allen? (Hint: It wasn't because we didn't have solid 5-techniques to take up blockers and stop the run)

I love Knowmo's logic. A team that doesn't have any superstar players that make plays is a bad team. The Chiefs are exactly that kind of team.

What's the easiest way to fix that? Acquire some superstar players. There should be plenty to choose from at the 5th overall pick in a ****ing draft.

What's Knowmo's solution? Acquire a fatass when the fatass we already have at that position is adequate for the time being and far from the extent of our problems on offense.

****, it's like dealing with three year olds some days.

:LOL:
Why is that funny?

This team with all these problems still beat the shit out of your team when it mattered to your team the most:rolleyes:

THAT'S gonna leave a mark.

hope so.

btw did drop it low make your list? ive got a few other recommendations if youre still dj'in

I keep seeing Jason Pierre-Paul getting mocked higher and higher

He's extremely athletic and in a year of a lot of guys that are the same thing he's the guy who's likely to emerge as the first pass rusher picked.

Three straight OTs huh? And then 4 out of 5. McShay loves him some tackles.

And it only took Denver sitting their two starting WR's, best receiving TE, the best RT in the NFL, and two starting OG's.

Congratulations on beating Denver's second string offense. LMAO

I hate to admit it, but KnowShit is right. This board gets too hung up on one guy and everybody else sucks ass. I like Berry just as much as the next guy, but I would love to have Bradford, I would love to have McClain, I would love to have Haden. Damn I would love to take Williams or Graham at that spot, because if you go back and look at drafts over the past 5 years players taken 10-15 are much better pro's then guys taken 1-5. So projections and grades be damned!

well, um, yeah....Sanchez would have been the answer..but we passed...

Well, your offense was bad, but that defense you kept bragging about got beaten around like a red headed stepchild.

Why Haden?

I admit that when I watched Florida games, I wasn't paying attention to him, I was trying to keep track of Spikes. I then read that he shut down a bunch of good WRs and went around the net to catch his highlights. What I didn't like was that I didn't see a lot of bump and run. If I'm going to spend a top 5 pick on a corner, I'd like a player who can line up on the LOS and prevent the WR from getting into his route. Haden looked pretty good playing of the LOS in both man and zone and he was good in run, I was just hoping for some more physical play at the LOS.

I do agree with your take that people become fixated on certain players, and blind as to others. The team should improve with just about any of the top 30 projected players.

The jury is still out on Sanchez. He had 1 good game in the playoffs and everyone forgets about the rest of the shit season and playoff games he had.

I just think we are weaker at the corner position they we probably realize. It's just masked by the total overall weakness of everything else on defense. My point is basically there are other guys out there that will probably be drafted later then Berry and have better careers then Berry so let's not be so closed minded.

He's a rookie who played better the bigger the games got. The jury might be out, but it looks to me like the verdict is going to be he's probably pretty good.

I need to see better then a QB rating of 63 for a year before I can go that far, but he did play well against the Colts, and didn't screw up the game against the Bengals. I'll give you that.

If he was on KC Sanchez would have a rating of around 50. No great defense, no running game for 3/4 of the season and league leading dropped passes. This team would have gotten him killed - physically and mentally.

Right, he had one of the best defenses and running games in the NFL, so in theory this season should have been easier for him then your typical rookie QB like Stafford.

I'm not saying it should have been easy. He played well at the end when it counted. I just think KC could have easily ruined him.

From a coaching and GM approach, what Haley and Pioli did the team was inexcusable. Scrap the system a week before the season starts. Trade away the only reliable pass catcher. Rotating receivers. No QB would have succeeded.

Really?

And as for silly excuses: scoreboard.

In all honesty, he should have been sitting this year in the first place. If you go back and look at all the guys wanting to pick Sanchez, most of them wanted to draft him and sit him for a year behind a vet.

He wasn't ready to be a starter like most rookie QB's aren't, but he did show his potential to be very good.

He had moments like all QB's do where they look good and I'm not saying he won't be good. But you can't look at what he did this year and say "Yeah, we F'd up for not taking this kid". Maybe in a few years you can say that, but not based of his total body of work for the 2009 season.

I don't see Sanchez being a Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, or a 2007 Tom Brady or anything when he fully develops. Their will be QB's of Sanchez's ceiling in every single draft. I don't think you missed out on a once in a decade QB or anything.

I meant the Broncos' best receiving TE. Scheffler is no Gates, Tony G, or Dallas Clark. And a lot of people will tell you that Ryan Harris is the best RT in the NFL. Losing him midway through the season was a HUGE loss.

Yeah I suppose if you talk to a lot of Donk fans.

I'm going to have to rethink my position because I agree with Knowshit again. I'm seeing Sanchez as probably someone that will be in the mid 80's passer rating for his prime years, about 3000 yards throwing, 60% comp, 25-15 TD/INT ratio, maybe have a great year and get to a probowl or two. I'm bascially seeing Matt Hasselbeck.

Don't get me wrong, I agree you can't base that off of his season. Yet you can base it off of his potential that he's had all along, his ceiling is WAY higher than Cassel's yet we went with Cassel because he could manage a top 5 offense.

Cue knowshit to quote some out of work scout's twitter page to argue for him.

I don't think you can make that assumption yet. Sanchez has much more to work with then Cassel. Surround Cassell with better talent then we can determine what his ceiling is. We forget how bad Trent was until they got some talent around him.

Really I believe he'll be a good QB, with stats that are a little better than you went with, he probably won't have elite Manning/Brady numbers. I do think we screwed up by not taking him because I believe he will be clutch. He seems to play his best in big games. Once he develops, I think he'll look a lot like Manning/Brady in the 4th quarter (minus this past SB). I know it's just my opinion right now, but I truly see him as a pressure situation QB.

It's amazing to me how much people here hate young QB's, and how they expect them all to be perfect straight out of college.

If you can't see the upside in someone like Stafford, Sanchez or Clausen, then frankly, you have no idea what you're looking at/for.

It'd be more amazing if most people on here weren't ****ing stupid.

LMAO

Good point.

yeah



...but you're a dumbass....

Damn right he did! If I was Joey Chestnut, I'd be worrying my ass off.

They went with Cassel because he was a known commodity. Sanchez was not. I don't think that Cassel is the end all, be all, and if a top flight QB were to be available to the Chiefs in the draft, I can't imagine them passing on one, but I don't believe that Sanchez was viewed as that type of guy. (And I like Mark a lot as a QB. He showed a lot of moxy and did progress as the season went on. He did have a lot of WTF? moments though. Typical rookie QB season.) Sanchez would have been broken, mentally, physically, if he started for KC last season, and there was no way in hell that Thigpen was going to be our starter.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Chiefs start stockpiling picks in an effort to make a run at a player like Gabbert in a year or two.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it one bit if the Chiefs took their first rounder and one of their seconds and a fifth to move up to get Suh at #1 and traded Dorsey to one of those teams wanting/needing a 4-3 DT (Tampa, Detroit, Tennessee, etc.) and get that second and fifth back via that trade.

Yeah, it's always wise to invest a top 5 pick in a player and then 2 years later get back a 2nd rounder and a 5th.

I suppose by your fool-proof evaluation method that Dorsey somehow didn't make any progress either last year, right?

Dorsey was the best DE on the team last year. As far as I am concerned KC is done with the DE position. They need to let Magee and Jackson develop. Gilberry did fairly well in relief duty. That's it. Dorsey, Jackson, Magee and Gilberry. Develop them and start to focus on other positions.

That's the nature of devaluation in the NFL. If you aren't putting up Jared Allen like numbers, there isn't a team in the league, no matter how desperate they are for a DT (e.g., Detroit), that is going to give the Chiefs a first round draft pick back for Dorsey. I wish it was the case, but because he's playing out of position, he hasn't been able to produce on the field to the level that he is probably capable of. A second and a fourth/fifth is about all you'd be able to get for him at this point I would imagine.

I think he made progress as the season wore on, but it wasn't anything to write home about. I think he does have good value to certain teams, and if you could move up into the #1 spot, pick up Suh (who has everything to be a dominant force at the five tech DE position), trade Dorsey and get those picks back that it took to move up to the one spot, I'd do it. Easily. At that point, you could go with a Cam Thomas or Kade Weston at the NT spot later in the draft as Suh and Jackson as bookend DE's would be a load.

So you'd rather just go with the known commodity over potential at the most important position on the field, and then the next year trade away your own known (improving) commodity to trade for potential at a far less important position like 5-tech? I believe in the process you'd be paying 2 signing bonuses as well, Dorsey's would need to be paid off and then you'd owe Suh a monster contract. Also, before you say that Suh is an elite talent remember that Dorsey was considered the best player in his draft and is starting to play like it.

Who hates young QBs? Was Sanchez even average, let alone close to perfect?

I can see some upside, but Sanchez was dropped into the perfect situation and failed. So I don't see how anyone can already say we made a mistake. Maybe he proves down the road that we made a mistake, but not right now. He had top defense and top running game and while he flashed at time still had a horrible passer rating on a good team. He was 28th in the league in passer rating, the next worst QB in passer rating for a team that made the playoffs was 16th (Palmer). The Jets won inspite of Sanchez, not because of him. Again not saying he won't improve, but you can't say right now that it was a mistake to pass on him, but you can't say it was a smart move at this time either.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have drafted Sanchez - I would have. If I were the GM, I would have let Brodie have another go at the QB spot, picked up another guy (such as Guitterez) and drafted Sanchez for the QBOTF. I like the guy a lot and think he's got a good future. I think that the Hasselbeck comparison was a good one. He's a guy that you can build a team around and be successful with. I do understand why the Chiefs traded for Cassel though. (I think that they screwed the pooch by not going after Olshansky, but that's neither here nor there at this point.)

I also think that Suh has every single possible tool to be the dominant force at a 3-4 five tech DE position. The guy has the length, the strength, the agility and the instincts to be the prototype for the position.

And Dorsey is not playing like the best player in his draft. Not even close. He made improvements, but he was out of position a lot this past year and seemed at times to get lost on plays, especially when they ran at him on the outside edge. He's got a ways to go before anyone is going to consider him a decent DE. I think that the general consensus is that he'd be a much better 4-3 DT than anything. The guy just looks out of position and played like it more often than not.

I was thrilled when we drafted Dorsey. However, we changed coaches the next season and changed schemes. Haley has been given the support cast and looks to be the long term guy as the Chiefs head coach. Crennel and Weiss could retire out of the AC spots in Kansas City. It looks like we are set in terms of the systems they want to run, and as a fan, I want the best possible player for our team, and Suh represents that in this draft. Bookend him with Jackson and you are looking at the makings of a dominant 3-4 defense. I can't look at Dorsey and make that same claim. (Though, if I were Atlanta, Tennessee, Minnesota, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, etc., I'd be actively looking at the possibility of acquiring a guy like Mr. Dorsey.)

How the **** could anyone be stupid enough to argue that a rookie QB who got to the conference championship game has ****ing failed?

Mother of ****. :facepalm:

There is a bit of Sanchizination around here. I like him and think he's going to be a good quarterback. He made some really terrific reads and throws, but he also made some of the dumbest ass plays I've seen from a QB this year. Rookie. It takes several years though and I don't think that the Chiefs got anything different in Cassel other than a bit more maturity and understanding of the professional game. That was the one thing that Cassel had in his favor over picking a guy like Sanchez in the draft. Cassel had watched game film, practiced against NFL defenses, learned under Brady, and had a year of starting experience in the NFL. Sanchez was an unknown. Cassel was a known commodity. Is he a "franchise" quarterback. I don't know. There were too many questions stemming from this past season (horrible offensive line, changing the play calling/scheme at the start of the season, Larry Johnson, wide receivers who led the league in dropped passes, tight ends who couldn't run routes, etc.) to make any type of judgement call on Cassel. I'm pretty positive that he has done better with a whole lot less when comparing him with Sanchez.

With Weiss as the OC, and a full offseason of a set offensive scheme, I think that we'll see marked improvements in Cassel's game.

The problem that most people have around here is that they want "their guy" at the key positions. Cassel wasn't picked by the Chiefs. He was traded for. I think that's why there is such a support group for Albert and Dorsey. They were Chief's first round picks. They've got to be better because we picked them. I just don't think that either really translate to what Haley and Weiss and Crennel want to do in this offense. I hope they all work out though. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

sorry, man, but that is preposterous....his performance against the colts alone validates his rookie season....

Neither of these descriptions are fitting for our "franchise" QB.

He is a completely worthless bag of ****ing shit.

I'm not saying he's Johnny Freakin' Unitas. He's not Jamarcus Russell either though. If you want to talk bags of ****ing shit, there's much better examples out there. He is what he is - a quarterback with good size and athleticism who throws a good pass that's not going to kill you with bone headed stupidity and bad decision making. He's not Elway or Brady, and I don't think anyone is trying to make him out to be either. He's a transition level quarterback that is playing on a bad team.

I don't see Peyton Manning in Sanchez or Stafford. Personally, I think Stafford has the most upside out of the three and I think Clausen is a douche like Jay Cutler.

Sanchez could turn out to be a decent QB, but I just don't think he is some can't miss QB prospect.

At least I have an opinion of my own... Unlike some people.....

Matt Cassel could have taken that Jets team to the AFC Championship game. Sanchez was asked not to make mistakes and just hand the ball off and let the defense win games.

Sanchez didn't will his team to victory in the playoffs or anything.

you don't have opinions....you have fanboy-idiot-gasms....you're literally the most embarrassingly stupid poster on this board, top 5 all time...

What does Mark Sanchez have to do with the Broncos?

So this is your opinion and not movethesticks twitter opinion?

A lot of underclassmen first round qbs have had "upside"

Give me an all time list of first round qbs that were underclassmen and we can all see the biggest list of FAIL in the history of stats and football.

Want to see a worse list?.. go look up first round qbs with 15 or less starts in college. Ill tell you this, you will see potential. LMAO

I think Sanchez is gonna prove to be the exception to that, but Im not so sure about Stafford. I still think he ends up as unspectacular. I could be wrong but I see a guy that will make a living throwing it up to Megatron and not a whole lot else.

Completely agree.

I disagree. Stafford showed some very good things this year. He forced a lot of passes, but he made some plays that were of the "Holy shit, I can't believe he made that throw!" variety.

The Lions are like the Chiefs - complete shit bag of a team in the first stages of deconstruction and rebirth under a completely new front office and coaching staff. You really can't expect much the first year in a situation like that. But he's got some good stuff and the ball is a laser. Whenever I watched the Lions, I saw a little bit of a young John Elway in his demeanor and the way he played. The potential is there.

He played in an AFC Championship game. Big F'n deal. Dilfer also wan a superbowl with a great defense and running game and he sucked. Sanchez sucked this year and had 1 good game in the playoffs. Again not saying he won't be good, but this season proved nothing either way. Dude has a 65 QB Rating on the year, Ryan and Flacco were both in the 80's last year. Their defense and run game are the reason they made it as far as they did. It had NOTHING to do with Sanchez. Maybe next year he bust out and makes you look like a genious, but not this year.

Actually, Sanchez played really well in the first and third playoff games of the year, and he played very well in the second half of the divisional round game.

You know how many QBs have won as many games in the playoffs as rookies as Sanchez in NFL history? 1. You know how many have won more? 0.

Marginalizing what he did as a rookie is just ****ing foolish.

Sanchez had a horrible rookie season, the Jets two postseason wins came on the shoulders of the running game and the defense and it was clear that the staff went out of their way to protect him in both games. I thought he did have a pretty decent showing in the third game when the situation forced the team to be more aggressive. That's not to say I don't think he can or will be good down the road, but come on, let's not get out of hand heaping praise on the guy. He really hasn't done anything to earn it, not yet.

If he was horrible, what's that make our guy? That's the problem with this...

Pssstttt. Im following you.

Fortunately, the same level of criticism is applied to our fifth year QB.

Also horrible?

Looking at their individual performance should be and is a mutually-exclusive thing. Judge them for how they did on their own merits, not how they did compared to each other. At least that's how I try to look at it.

Maybe I find it easier since I don't fall into any particular camp. Although, technically, if we have to talk about them together, then, well, I guess I'd have to say I wanted Sanchez more than I wanted Cassel (who I wanted not at all...). The only good thing I've ever been able to say about that trade is that it cost less than I expected. Which still doesn't change the fact that I didn't see Sanchez as a top-5 value, because of his experience, or lack thereof. But in the end my view of one has never had anything to do with my view of the other.

Pretty much, it's sad.

I think Sanchez will always have major detractors on this forum because tearing him down is the only way to feel ok about Matt Cassel.

irony?