QBs: Dickhead vs. Douchebag
 

I've been thinking about the Clausen debate a good deal recently. I'm not totally sold on Clausen in light of next year's class, but I'm not sure we'll be in position to take one of those guys either. Obviously, Clausen's personality has rubbed people the wrong way at times. But how so?

Mecca made a point the other day that it wasn't a big deal, because a lot of QBs were douches. That's definitely true, but perhaps taken more literally, how successful have the true douchebags been? I'm talking about me-first, aloof assholes who have a bizarre air of entitlement about them.

Conversely, how has their success compared to that of dickheads? Essentially a dickhead is someone who acts like an ass to a lot of people, is incredibly demanding, but may not have the aloof attitude of the douchebag.


Looking at a lot of QBs across history, I think that you could break them down along the following lines:

Dickheads:

Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady.

All of them bitched out their WRs for very small mistakes, got on their line for blown coverages, or snapped on a back for missing a block. But one could argue that it was due to their insane competitive drive.

Douchebags:

Jeff George, Jay Cutler, Ryan Leaf.

These guys were all (seemingly) despised by both fans and teammates. They didn't always get into it with players, but they never seemed to have a problem mixing it up with either fans or coaches.


Here is the crux. Obviously, the dickheads in the above example are "winners" while the douchebags are "losers". Is the only differentiation between the two the fact that the dickheads won? Or, do the dickheads have something within their dickhead personality that makes them win, something the douchebags never had?

If we are to believe this rather primitive theory, do you think that Clausen's actions are the actions of a dickhead or a douchebag, and how might that affect your view on drafting him?

**Note that I've exempted guys like Drew Brees and Joe Montana, who seem universally loved by their teammates

****Grbac was a douche and Gannon was a dickhead.

Honestly.....I get more upset if my QB doesn't get on his WRs for dropping the ball or he doesn't get on the offensive lineman who misses their assignment.

Classic hallmark of a dickhead QB.

Douchebag throws his arms up and makes a stupid face while sulking on the sidelines.

Well....a classic douchebag move would be throwing an INT and then smiling and laughing while he walks back to the sidelines.

I also like QBs that don't over-or under-throw their receivers on a regular basis.

Example? :)

Hmmm....first person that comes to mind. Jay Cutler.

I think it's leadership that makes the difference, although how or why someone is a "leader" isn't so much a tangible thing. George, Cutler and Leaf were/all are basically flakes whose teammates wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire, whereas Marino, Manning and Brady were/are clearly "the man" on their teams. I think it has to do with the ability to drive the people around them to a higher level of play. Maybe they're dickheads for the sake of the team, whereas the other guys were dickheads into themselves? Maybe it's how they try to get their points across? Hell if I know, but I think leadership is the difference.

As for Clausen, I don't really know. He's had some really good individual results in what I consider a less-than-perfect situation, but I don't have a clue how he'll translate to the NFL. Just for me, there's always something that's seemed a little "off" about him, but with Weis on the staff, this is the really rare situation where I would just acceed to the decision of the team. 'cause I think we have a deeper insight than any other franchise into him. Although on the other hand, maybe it would be tunnel vision.

I agree. People will follow a dickhead. Patton was a consummate dickhead. People will not follow a douchebag.

It is possible for a dickhead not to be a winner.......because like keg said....he has to be a leader as well. You can't yell at your WRs all game and expect them to follow you. You also have to pull them aside when they make the great catch and pat them on the helmet and tell them good job.

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Jamarcus Russell amirite

That's Matt Cassel.

"Sports Illustrated labeled Clausen "the kid with the golden arm" when he was a junior in high school. He announced his commitment to Notre Dame by arriving at the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend, Ind., in a stretch Hummer limousine."

That's a lot more d-bag than dickhead.

Refusing to play for the team that drafted you seems like a douchebag move.

Something else to consider:

According to Hamas's definition, Tim Tebow is clearly a dickhead. But can a QB be so dickheadish that he becomes a douchebag? Because he's hated like a douchebag, but acts like a dickhead. Something doesn't make sense.

Lenny the cool had THE LOOK. Talk to any of his teammates and they all tell you Dawson didn't yell at you when you messed up, but that look would burn right through to your soul.

Jimmy Clausen is ugly enough to burn through one's soul if you look directly at him. He might have THE LOOK.

This is definitely it for me. I don't care whether the guy has a solid gold statue of himself in his house that he masturbates to daily. If he can take control of the offense and lead the others around him despite the situation, then that's your guy. If he has the kind of leadership that makes others better, instead of relying on surrounding talent, that's your guy. If he expects and receives professional respect from his fellow players and his coaches, that's your guy. And the last one is probably the most important.

This may be off, but I see the same kind of "on the field" leadership from Jimmy that I see in P. Manning. Taking command instead of just contributing. The confident attitude of "I know WTF I'm doing, let's move this shit down the field, don't screw it up." When he's rolling out of the pocket, you can see the determination as he signals receivers around the field. "NO, get your ass RIGHT THERE!" kind of stuff, while on the move avoiding pressure. Knowing and reading the defenses, and coordinating the WRs to take advantage of that even after the play has started. The ability to roll away from a sack, and not be shaken in the slightest, and keep your decisions quick and confident. That takes serious concentration and confidence, and the great ones make it look simple. I see a bit of that in Jimmy. It never seems like too much for him.

It's gotten to the point that everything you say about any QB should be taken with about the biggest ****ing grain of salt ever.

According to you a few months ago, Cassel would yell at teammates and he was too big of a hothead to play the position (whatever the ****ing hell that means).

Now, he sulks on the sidelines.

Which is it?

I'm no Cassel fan, but your inconsistency is ridiculous. If you hate the guy, just come out and say you ****ing hate him instead of trying to analyze something you obviously have no ****ing clue about what you're talking about.

This.

The guy came BACK into the game during the Purdue game last year and drove the team down the field to win the game......AFTER he was knocked out with an injury. The guy wants to win.....and I can't fault him for it.

Elway should be in the douchebag list along with Eli Manning. I don't know how you really decide if a guy is a douchebag or dickhead? Some guys are so close to being both.

This statement sounds a lot like your talking about Matt Stafford last year...

It's more than results, but it's something that we absolutely can't know for sure without being in the locker room.

Dude can be a great guy off the field, humble, funny, smart, witty, etc. but a demanding mother****er on it who doesn't take any shit and thinks his own shit doesn't stink.

It's when you are able to combine these two conflicting personalities that you have "it." Tough for Joe fan to be able to recognize "it" for sure.

Clausen is a tough son of a bitch. That's for sure. To play all year with turf toe is remarkable. He took a beating behind that line too.

Jake Locker is seeming like a very solid pick at this point. The thing about him is that he's so good (assuming he remains as highly valued) we would probably need top 3 draft pick to grab him.

I would much rather draft Clausen this year and then get one of the top 3 WRs next year.

If Clausen drops to Chiefs I think it would be stupid for them not to pick him up. But it also wouldn't surprise me in the lease if they didn't.

Just think if we draft a dickhead ,he'll be playing for an asshole. So it just might work.

Isn't it sad when you get surprised when they actually draft a GOOD player? My mind is already set they will be drafting Buluga. Im already over it. I'll be hella excited if they draft a Berry/Claussen/McClain/Haden....But I doubt it.

I really can't find a place to ask this question, and I don't want to start a thread for it, but do you think there is a chance the Chiefs sign Willie Parker as a RB to share carries with Charles? Is he pretty much permanently busted up or what? There are the obvious "Steelers ties" that may be required for the Chiefs to look his way, and the Steelers apparently do not want to resign him.

Very good question. If he is healthy, Charles+Parker seems like a damn good combo. Im not sure why everyone wants a power back, especially if the offense is tailored to suit a particular running style.

I'd rather the Chiefs picked up another scat back than a Power back.

The only Power back that I would like to see in a Chiefs uniform is Blount. But I don't see it happening.

And this probably would have been a better thread to ask that question:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223948

per Pest's post in the Lounge......

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=681

I was just about to post that here. Thanks.

Does anyone think Tate would say something negative about Clausen? He'd come off as a dick if he did.

No not in public but scouts will ask basically all of the OU and ND guys what they think of the QB's as leaders and personalities etc etc.

Consider that two of three douchebags were not in very good playing shape.

I know Manning and Brady have always kept in great shape. Marino was always in pretty good shape.

Well, if he does, he shouldn't be on his receivers about drops, cause the ball might be slippery.

It's typical Tribal Warfare bullshit.

I have to say that guys like Manning do the work and expect the same out of the guys around them. So when they bitch, you have to respect them. Leaf, Cutler, and George, never did the same work so they didnt garner the same respect that leads teammates to follow them. You'll take BS off someone who is willing to do the same thing they ask of you.

Have you played the position before? I have in, and you ever been in a situation where your temperament will dictate how something that makes you transcend the moment or possible make you pile of shit on the street.

The guy doesn't have it period.

You are a ****ing joke.

really, thank you for the interjection

Learned a new word today, huh?

Good for you.

Yes, I have plenty of two dollar words at my disposal.

That's great.

Now, with a little work you can learn to use them in sentences that are less disjointed than the one in post #43.

Then, perhaps, you can explain more eloquently how your Pop Warner QB days give you this great insight to QBs have "it".

So you played QB, and you have these bad of takes on the position?

What exactly is it? Because I'm confused how you can keep flip-flopping on a subject you obviously are so well versed in.

One day you talk about how Cassel is a hot head on the field and will scream at teammates (and this somehow makes him a bad QB, not the physical or mental limitations), the next day you talk about how he'll just sulk on the sideline by himself.

These 2 statements are massive contradictions.

Please forward me the videos of you playing QB in your flag football league so I can analyze your temperment.

It's usually immaturity, not d-bagness that causes a QB to fail. NFL.COM was doing a bit on the top 10 busts of all time. A frequent word that popped up when speaking with people about Leaf and Mirer was immaturity. I would also say that it is immaturity and laziness that is setting Russel back.

Without intending to be abrasive, (and I am aware whenever someone states their intention not to do something they inevitably wind up doing just that) I find the need to categorize people into specific groups detrimental to the process of evaluation. Saying he's either a "dickhead" or a "douchebag" just limits your parameters of evaluation. I think I grasp the concept you're striving for, but I'm simply trying to point out that a grey area always exists.