CBS Sports Article On KS's 2nd Rd picks
 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/s...overlist_photo

Sorry if a repost.

(KC's 2nd rd picks)

:spock:

good to read some outside perspective;

everyone is so doom and gloom here it makes me wonder if every team would just be better off picking who ever was at the top of 'mel's best available' list.

lol, wow, i havent seen Jason Seahorn in ages. Wonder what happened to the last good white cornerback. lol

This...

I wonder is this mans Carr to safety? If so, the team speed in the secondary willl be increased quite a bit.

No, it means Arenas to nickel back and PR/KR duties.

So the real Mel Kiper, Mike Mayock, Clark Judge and people that really cover the draft for their living (you know, PROFESSIONALS) like our picks while the CP wanna be Mel Kipers, Mike Mayocks, Clark Judges, etc think we had the worst draft ever.

thought we just drafted a KR early in the 2nd round. :spock:

I bet by the end of year Arenas is the #2 corner and Carr is the nickel

He copied my "The Positive Thread" Thread.


Bastard!

Arenas will be too tired to play any defense at all.

I have to state the 2nd round was wasted on luxery picks. When you have as many holes as we do on both sides of the ball then using 2nd round picks on a 3rd down back/slot receiver and a guy who will probably never be more than a nickle back then you are essentially wasting those picks. We still have holes on the dline, linebacking corps and still have a mediocre receiving corps. I love the Berry pick. Asamoah looks like the angry player that we need. And I think Moeaki will be solid.

I also have to comment on passing Clausen. I think if you take him in the first then it signals to Cassel that he is a lame duck and you get nothing from him this year. Taking him in the 2nd does not say the same thing. I don't see that Cassel did anything last year to say he is a long term answer at QB. Quite the opposite in fact. If its Scott Pioli not wanting to admit that he may have made a mistake in taking Cassel then he is putting his own ego ahead of the franchise. If you thought that Clausen was someone you were considering with #5 then why would you pass on him in round 2?

A lot of people need to fo this in here.

No no no. What does anyone in the media who cover football know. All that matter is Mecca and his friends hate the picks.

Great Scott, we have a winner

A year ago, I didn't get what Kansas City GM Scott Pioli was doing in the draft. He took Ty Jackson with the third overall pick, and it made no sense to me. Then Jackson went out and did -- uh, nothing, and it made less sense. So Pioli returns this year, gets off to a flying start and, suddenly, is the early leader in comeback of the year voting. Getting Eric Berry with the fifth pick was smart, but it wasn't all that difficult to make. Most boards had Berry in the top six, and the Chiefs' best safety, Bernard Pollard, was no longer a Chief. They let him go prior to last season, so there was a need at the position. OK, fine. But Pioli made his mark in the second round, scoring two bull's-eyes with his choices.

First was Dexter McCluster, a game-breaking running back/wide receiver/return specialist who is perfect for a team that needs playmakers. So McCluster is small -- pick your spots. He's Darren Sproles, and you'll love him, Chiefs' fans. Then Pioli has the 50th overall choice and finds Javier Arenas, the best blitzing defensive back in the draft and a marvelous return specialist. All Arenas did was come within 11 yards of setting a national career punt return record, and if the Chiefs' defense can stop anyone, that will come in handy. "He can start from Day 1 I believe," said NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock. "I think that's a great pick. I love what Kansas City has done. "

I am skeptical but I sure hope those opinions turn out to be right.

They never considered him at # 5. That was all BS. I ran into Weiss this morning at Starbucks and he told me so.

Who says the Chiefs were considering Clausen at #5? Who says that Charlie Weis wanted Clausen? Funny how people report things like they are fact...

All he has to do is read his own take of " and if the Chiefs' defense can stop anyone, that will come in handy." to find the error with his analysis. Made way more sense to use BOTH # 2's to make sure the Chiefs could stop someone before they used the picks on role players. Just plain dumb. :shake:

It wasn't me that reported it. Both NFL and ESPN reported the same.

Yea they also reported the big ben trade which was total BS. What does this teach us kids????? thats right don't believe everything you hear

I thought the second round was smurfy.

just one question: what the **** is KS? kansas shitty?

I don't question whether or not Arenas and McCluster can play.
I'm concerned that they drafted roleplayers with #2's that should've gone towards impact defensive STARTERS.

McCluster could be one hell of a Chief for all we know...
But he won't help us stop the run. And that's more important, I think, than what he can potentially do as a utility offensive player.

that's all great if we had selected these guys IN THE 5Th ROUND

get a quality nose tackle and ILB in round 2 then we can afford to select the toys in round 5.

deepest ****ing draft in history and we select "gadgets" in round 2. :banghead:

Pioli just built the Vermeil Chiefs. All offense, no sign of life on defense. Thanks for adding one starter on defense. I'm sure our defense will magically learn to stop the run with Ron Edwards manning the nose. Mays and Belcher should put the fear of God into opposing defenses. ONE defensive starter out of this draft. ONE.

What's a luxery pick?

All of this continued Clausen talk is beyond stupid. If the Chiefs or Charlie Weis thought he was worth a **** as an NFL QB they would have drafted him. He was finally drafted at #48 and that was by a team without a QB. We already have a Clausenesque guy in Croyle. Given were both got drafted, in the eyes of NFL people they're not too much different. If Cassel bombs this year we will be picking high again next year and can get an actual franchise QB prospect. Where Clausen went nobody in the NFL thinks he has that potential. They only do this for a living. More often than not they are right. That's why they are paid professionals and we are posting about the draft on message boards.

Also it has been widely reported the Chiefs had no interest in him at #5. That was backed up when they passed again at #36. Can we finally put that dumbass rumor to rest now? It's pretty obvious the only people that feel he was 1st round worthy were dumbasses on message boards and Mel Kiper. Just further evidence of what a moron Kiper is and shows that he's no insider. Either that or NFL teams just feed him shit to continue to make him look like a dumb****. Probably a combo of both. I think they should focus on Kiper's horrible predictions as much as they do a falling draft pick. I can't believe they continued to show "Kiper's best available" with Clausen at the top for a rounds worth selections. Makes ESPN look pretty dumb when they tout him as their Draft expert.

What quality nose tackle did you want them to pick there? Cody is worthless and there wasn't much else there unless you wanted a reach for the ages.

Okay, once again, if it's SO DAMN HARD to get a NT, WHY THE HELL DID WE MAKE THE SWITCH TO THE 3-4?

I'm anxious to hear an answer from one of the Pioli ballwashers sometime.

You're suggesting a needs-based draft.

The worst approach you can take into a draft is to target two key positions and demand that you walk out of the draft with those two positions.

They still have time in the waiver wire to look for some ILBs and I"m sure there will be some roster cuts coming soon. And if they don't, who cares? I feel pretty comfortable with the offense today, so the defense is the next step. Why is there such an urgency to get everything fixed today?

A nose tackle isn't hard to get. Why do you think they're paid so little and almost never get drafted past the first round?

You just have to expend some kind of effort, which the Chiefs haven't done to date.

all these viable NT's went after we picked:

Terrance Cody
Torrell Troup
Linval Joseph
Cam Thomas
Geno Atikins

and that is just the NT ... also LB's
Washington
Bowman
Lee
Angerer
Butler


we'll see how worthless all these guys are ....

btw the Chiefs did REACH, McCluster and Arenas were not only gadget players but were reaches.

then why don't we have one?

waiver wire my ass

i repeat ........... 1st round talent all the way deep into round 2 and we took gadget players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you think waive wire players replace missing on out getting 3 possible 1st round type guys??

We have to wait and see what the plan is between Edwards, Smith, and that bit about Dorsey playing there...

Because we haven't tried. Not excusing it. But it's not like we have to dedicate a 2nd round pick. There could still be big space eaters in the undrafted area and Shaun Smith is a more than capable 1-year stopgap.

The sky isn't falling because we didn't take Cody.

And there's always next year. Why are we demanding that we pigeonhole ourselves into taking a NT this year if we don't necessarily like what's available? That is the DEFINITION of drafting for need.

#1 - these guys were second round players, therefore not first round players
#2 - nobody except on CP is saying any of these guys, really, were taken at below value. In the case of McCluster and Moeaki, they were drafted right before a team that was extremely interested.

So I don't understand the argument about missing out on a 1st round type guy when we drafted a 1st round type guy in their place.

i didn't list JUST CODY ... i listed a dozen viable players we could take are highly talented and filled a need.

i sick and tired of dealing with incompetent GM's (Peterson,Dayton Moore)

not winning is one thing ... doing stupid shit like drafting Dante Hall and Benny Sapp in the 2nd round of this year's draft is another thing.

[QUOTE=Laz;6710318]all these viable NT's went after we picked:

Terrance Cody
Torrell Troup
Linval Joseph
Cam Thomas
Geno Atikins

and that is just the NT ... also LB's
Washington
Bowman
Lee
Angerer
Butler


we'll see how worthless all these guys are ....

btw the Chiefs did REACH, McCluster and Arenas were not only gadget players but were reaches.[/QUOTE

Well, ESPN jumped the gun and reported the next-pick Eagles were set on drafting McCluster, who, by most accounts, was second-round talent. So how's McCluster a reach?

As for Arenas, he could've been a reach or just undervalued going in. It seems like most mock drafts, even ones by pros, are jsut an exercise in groupthink. Arenas and our new TE could have just been lost in the shuffle, you know, like late-round stars.

I'm excited to have some playmakers other than Charles.

Really? Cause last time I checked the mother ****ing Ravens happen to know a thing or two about building a good damn defense. And they thought he would be perfect NT for them to continue to dominate with their 3-4, the one that is run right.

Even Berry said in his Q & A that most of his success came from having a dominant NT in Dan Williams.

so you think McCuster and Arenas are 1st round types?

you don't take ROLE players in the 1st round unless you are a winning team that just needs that extra piece.

unless McCluster is Reggie Freaking Bush then he is not a 1st round talent.

not to mention that even if McCluster is Reggie Bush-ish ... 1st round talent that fills a need > 1st round gadget talent.

[QUOTE=Chiefburger;6710372]

You left off Sergio Kindle, most around here were screaming for this guy. BTW, he is better with one knee than most the two kneed guys we already play. :)

It was a mistake, they saw McCluster on the phone and reported the Eagles instead of us ... it doesn't mean the Eagles were going to take him.

keep drinking the koolaid ... you'll need it when our run defense still sucks.

In a vacuum, you could say that we had a pretty good draft. I do think we came away with some talented players. However, when you look at some of the other guys who were available at those spots in the 2nd round, we could have gotten better players at bigger positions of need.

Again, Philadelphia was content with picking "Dante Hall" the pick after us. And they arguably need him less than we do. Stop treating that pick like it's a complete WTF pick. Lots of teams and experts seem to think he's enough of a weapon to justify the pick. Hell, he'll be asked to do a lot of the same things as Reggie Bush, but a full round lower.

I don't know how I feel about the Arenas pick. But if he's a solid nickel back, I don't see why that's labeled as a "gadget" player. You do realize that they play 50% or so of the snaps? And you do realize that we will never be able to beat a playoff team like Indy or NE or the Jets, etc... unless you have solid nickel/dime guys. It's not good enough to have a #1/#2 corner. You have to account for teams that have dangerous slot receivers. If he plays 50% or so of snaps in the nickel effectively and serves as a returner, then there is nothing wrong with the value of the pick.

As for people listed, look.... I thought Cam Thomas would have been a great pick for us in the third. He fell several rounds lower. If Baltimore doesn't pick Cody, who knows how low he falls. None of these NTs come off as anything close to a guarantee.

Did the Chiefs reach on any of their picks the past few days? It doesn't seem so. So what's the problem? Because we didn't rely on a need-based draft strategy? We're sort of flip-flopping here.

Todd haley "we have the best runningback in the nfl and a pretty good secondary, but no nosetackle or rush linebackers. We could fill both spots in the 2nd round. What do you think scott?"

Scott pioli "what about a runningback and a corner? Noone will be able to pass on us or stop the run everrrr!"

Charlie weis "i want clausen"

Sp & th " you shut the hell up! Matt cassels the truth! Go sit in the corner!"

( charlie weis walks slowly to the corner and cuts himself)

Th " we need Some sort of pass rush though"

Sp "two words. Javier.arenas. Best blitzer in football. Hes basically a rush linebacker playing corner. Problem solved"

(crickets)

Sp "its gonna work" *

Before some of you guys have a heart attack lets look at the picks before we whine about them.

Eric Berry= Stud
Dexter McCluster= Darren Sproles 2.0
Javier Arenas= Will play corner and return kicks (which is a "need" imo)
Jon Asomoah= Starting guard for 10 yrs
Tony Moeaki= Has all the potential is the world to become a great TE for the Chiefs.
Kendrick Lewis= Ehh.. maybe will play some special teams
Cameron Sheffield= might actually be a big time steal for his spot. We need a LB and it looks like Sheffield can come in and feel the void..

The only pick I see that may not make the team is Lewis, but Pioli drafted him for a reason so we will see.

so you think we have looked at the picks yet?

I'm just saying, gadget picks like Bush have been taking high. And I believe Sproles was getting serious offers for second round picks. So the idea that it's so outlandish for "gadget" guys like this to go in the second round is ridiculous. Almost everybody had McCluster going in the high second round. Not a single person outside of KC thinks this is a reach.

And you have to stop acting like we have to do everything to build for now. Do you think McCluster won't be here in 3-5 years? Why is it so urgent that we have to, have to, have to build a hole-free defense now. Today.

Was he a reach? No. Will he get significant playing time? If he plays to his potential, yes. What's the big ****ing problem? It's not like we're talking about Tyson Jackson, where we picked 10 picks or so above the slot. We picked a guy right where he was slotted. The only reason you're upset is because it doesn't match your personal evaluation of the player. You have no idea what Weis wants to do with McCluster. You have no idea what kind of sets he wants to feature him in. Therefore, you and I both have no clue what value McCluster brings to this team. Only Pioli, Haley, and Weis know.

The Ravens already have a pretty solid defense so they're in a position where they can take a "luxury pick" like Cody, to use a phrase I've been reading a lot lately. They can gamble on the possibility that Cody will live up to his potential instead of merely cashing his paycheck, getting fat and happy, while eating himself out of the league. The Chiefs can't afford gambles like that when they have the chance to fill a different need with a high character guy that they think is very likely to fulfill his potential as a playmaker.

Not necessarily. Some of you guys are mindlessly ranting about players you may or may not of ever seen play before or even know who they are.

I just ask that you at least use some logic with your idiotic rants.

That's the thing. The fact that Dan Williams was rated so much higher than Cody in the draft, even though Cody was a much more productive player? We have no idea how Cody tested on his psych evaluations. We have no idea what the scouts dug up about his work ethic and future work ethic concerns. And frankly, at the Nose Tackle position, it's a very legit concern that your heavy tackle could eat his way out of the league, especially when he has the money to do so. I still remember Jonathan Sullivan. Tremendously talented DT. At his way out of the league.

It's okay to question a pick. But when people act like they know the full story? There are scouts who spend an entire year digging up dirt on these guys. Jamarcus Russell is a prime example. #1 pick calibre talent, but maybe the most unmotivated QB to ever walk into the NFL. How does a behavioral specialist not pick up on that?

I for one am excited and think the picks are great players and all, I just wish we could have address the gapping holes that have stood out like a sore thumb on this team year after year. My problem is we could have fixed some of those and once again we ignored it. Every year the Chiefs fail to address a problem position of urgent need! QB, RB, K, RT, DE, DT, NT, all holes ignored in previous years. When they start to fix one, two more holes pop up. That is the part that is so frustrating.

that can't afford to risk on a NT but can afford to draft Dante Hall at the top of the 2nd.

Dante Hall - smurf type running back out of college ... returned kicks and converted to a gadget slot receiver.

sound familiar?

Javier Arenas - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle. Also Returns kicks

Benny Sapp - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle. Doesn't return kicks

Mark McMillian - short,slow cornerback who has to be protected against bigger receivers by keeping him at the nickle.


The human joystick and mighty mouse part duex in the 2nd round

ya helluva a 2nd round in a STRONG,STRONG 2nd round draft class.

ok ... the n00b just said i didn't know the picks and i provide idiotic rants


i gave the little bastard a chance

Maybe McCluster is Dante Hall. But maybe he's Wes Welker or Steve Smith or Darren Sproles. If he's any of those four, he's probably worth the pick that was used on him.

I don't like the idea of forcing yourself to draft a NT just because you've convince yourself that it's your biggest need (which might not even be true) when your team has as many holes as the Chiefs do. I'm more attracted to the BPA approach, particularly if the BPA still fills a big need. Like it or not, our offense needs playmakers, our special teams needs a returner, and our defense needs help with their pass rush and another guy who can cover.

the BPA is a great theory but when you have as many draft picks as we did then you need to be able to fill both value and need.

so maybe we don't grab a NT in the 2nd ... maybe we go Linebacker (washington) or even another safety(Nate Allen).

then you go with a slot WR/KR like Jordan Shipley in the 3rd and then grab atkins or Cam Thomas.

there were viable NT's that went in just about every round for you to get value and need

Terrance Cody - 2nd round (good enough for the Ravens)
Torrell Troup - 2nd round (Bills)
Linval Joseph - 2nd round (giants)

3 nose tackles that went in the 2nd after we picked ... to teams that know defense pretty good.

Geno Atkins - 4th round (cincy)

Cam Thomas - 5th round (chargers, this could bite us in the butt)


clearly Pioli is ok with our nose tackle position so no excuses about it this year.

The complaint is not that we missed a NT, the complaint is that we took role players who will not spend much time on the field when we could have taken starters. Linebackers, NT, offensive linemen, starting WR all would have made more sense because they would get more time on the field and, therefore, could have made a larger contribution. Hell, even Mays (the safety) would have made more sense than a project slot receiver who weighs less than most high schoolers.

btw ... it's not even that i hate McCluster or Arenas but taking them instead of the other players in the 2nd round is just terrible.

All in all, I give the draft a D. If not for Berry, it would be an F-.

I'm grading on a curve, which Pioli set last year when he showed it was entirely possible to piss away a top 5 pick.

We had absolutely NO room for error. Our team won 4 games. We drafted two role players in the 2nd round. TWO!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care how good of role players they are, that is a FAILURE on the part of management. You simply cannot fuk up those picks when you have so many needs.

Both are too undersized to contribute at their respective position on an every down basis. Its as if Pioli, Haley, Weis & Crennel all created their checklist and simply forgot to include "Is a 3 down player".

Are we really to believe that Berry & Arenas improved our 31st ranked run defense?

We gave up 4.7 yards per rush. Teams attempted to run on us 531 times, thats the 3rd highest # of attempts and the 2nd highest average allowed.

We finished 31st in the league in sacks.

How would either of them help improve that total?

I see nothing to believe that we can be any better than we were last season on defense.

This really looks like a draft to help Cassel and I have no problem with trying to help him. He clearly needs it, but to pass on obvious problem areas is just stupid. They could have moved up for a defensive player, just like they did for Moeaki.

Why you give up so much for an injury prone TE who has proven so little in college I have no idea.

I'm not condemning the players, they might be great, but unless we address our lack of a NT and find a pass rush before the start of the season, we will suck again this year.



I had hopes for this draft going into it because Pioli did do a good job of addressing the offensive line issues prior to the draft but to fail to address what really are HUGE concerns just doesn't make a bit of f-ing sense to me.

Picking the best blitzing DB in the draft and someone whose skills make him an effective guy to cover the slot receiver just might help stop someone, IMHO.

He'll help put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses which will cut down on the three and outs. Which will cut down on the length of time that the defense is on the field. Which will help out a lot, IMHO.

Seems like the defense was always under the gun even when they got stops because they were always right back out on the field.

The Ravens can afford to miss on Cody if he turns out to be what he appears to be. A lazy ass slob who has woman tits because he has no pride.

And I don't want to hear about how nose tackles are supposed to be fat. Fat is one thing but flabby sagging flesh is completely another. There is no way that you can look at Cody and feel confident in his ability to motivate himself.

You're funny, I'm sure Cody is going to just be a bum seeing as one of the very best drafting teams in the entire league took him.

The Ravens taking Cody means he'll be Ted Washington.

Wasn't talking about you personally but if you want to cry about it. Go ahead ;)

It means they're willing to take that risk where they did. According to you he is a sure thing even though everybody passed over him at least once. Must be there are some questions.

I applaud the chiefs for not taking a leap of faith on a guy who has exhibited absolutely no motivation to take care of himself. Dude has to have zero self-awareness or pride to let himself show up at the combine in the disgusting shape he was in.

I didn't just list cody ........

No shit, and I could give two ****s if ANY media hack is pleased with our day 2 McCluster****.

Really? He lost 30 pounds in a couple months? Thats better than a lot of our star players who had a hard time doing it.

Exactly. I've said something very similiar yesterday. Our defense is attrocious and we pick 2rd stringers, instead of STARTERS, with premium picks.

Yeah.....I'm so glad that we have these two guys instead of Kindle and Cody....you know....two players that filled voids in our defense and were actually talented. :rolleyes:

I'll even accept the McCluster pick if you get Cody at #50....but a ****ing nickle back who returns kicks? **** that shit.

How many gm's and coaches wish they didn't pass on Deshawn Jackson and Jeremy Maclin over the last two drafts? I'd take them both over Dorsey and Jackson in a heart beat. It says a lot if Philly wanted Mccluster and we got him.

I completely agree. More unbelievable when you consider how Pioli ignored the OL last year. No way in hell to justify ignoring the front 7 this year - especially with two 2nd round picks. It doesn't matter the GM - it all seems exactly lke the past...:shake:

What happens when he gets paid? I'm sure his agent got into his ear after his sorry display at the combine. Anyone who was self-motivated wouldn't have shown up at the combine looking like a flabby piece of shit.

I just don't understand the definition of "starters." Why do Nose Tackles, most of which don't play 3 downs, get labeled as these players that get so much more playing time than say a nickel corner w/return capability, or a Darren Sproles type player? It's maddening.

A lot of these 2nd-to-3rd round d-linemen are going to be average rotational guys at the very best. So would you rather a guy who's really good in a specific role? Or a 33% chance of landing a guy who's very good at the position overall?

exactily! how many king carl drafts did we follow Kipers top guys list only to end up with a crap draft? Most of the time our drafts seemed good at the time b/c they seemed to mirror the various scouting reports ... however, we all know how most our the previous regimes drafts ended up :(

While it makes no sense to me, its not my job to know everything that needs to be known to conduct a successful draft. As such, when i hear names mentioned that i know little to nothing about...i have a WTF moment. Then however, i remind myself that its Scott and not Carl running the show and i take a deep breath and put my trust in the front office. A change from the past is a welcomed change in my opinion. This draft wasnt gang busters or flashy, but it does appear that Pioli is trying to build us a team here in KC. Which is a contrast to what we are use to here, which was constant stop gaps and slapping duct-tape on problem areas.

Time will tell what a watch wont on this one, but in no shape or form was it a sign that the ship was about to blowup thanks to being bombed by the ROFLcopter. :shrug:

Cody is a huge risk based on his inability to keep himself in shape. An unmotivated lazy ass is the last thing this team needs. It amazes me how enamoured some of you are with a guy like that. The fact that you clamor for such an undisciplined player undermines your own self-proclaimed expertise.

I guess you might as will bitch about Cody because at this point you'd sound foolish bitching about us not taking Clausen at five. How did that work out for you?

At Alabama Cody sat out a lot of downs due to his lack of stanima. According to a lot of the draft experts around here that's the type of guy we should have drafted high.

1) As you mention, Pioli just might not think our need at NT is as great as you do.

2) The Ravens, Bills, and Giants might have taken McCluster if he had been available to them in the 2nd. The Chiefs might have taken Troupe at 2b if he was still available. The Ravens might have taken Arenas over Cody if they'd have had the chance. We'll probably never know how any of these teams' draft boards looked.

You're welcome to disagree with their choices, of course, but there isn't an argument that you can make that proves your way is objectively better than theirs.