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Tribal Warfare 04-30-2010 04:31 PM

USA Today: Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft?
 
Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft?


Yahoo! Buzz
By Nate Davis, USA TODAY
So which franchise really stands the best chance to reap the most from its rookies now that the 2010 NFL draft has concluded? USA TODAY ranked the 20 league personnel executives who have been on the job for at least three years with their current team (the exception being Scott Pioli) to try and get a better idea as to who scores touchdowns in April, who settles for field goals and who coughs it up.

REPORT CARD: Grading the 2010 NFL draft class

1A. Bill Belichick
, head coach/el jefe supremo, New England Patriots— Little point in arguing after he transformed a franchise that seemed to be in decline into a three-time Super Bowl champion virtually overnight. Clearly Belichick learned a lot after the five putrid drafts the Cleveland Browns produced during his tenure there in the 1990s. New England has become known for its deft ability to amass quality picks and find excellent players later in the process who won't come with the price tag of a top-10 pick. Belichick has made seven second-round picks over the last two drafts and picked up an extra Round 2 pick next year after extracting it from the Carolina Panthers for a low third-round pick last Saturday. Key contributors such as receiver Deion Branch, defensive end Jarvis Green, tackle Matt Light and cornerback Asante Samuel all came at pick 48 or later. But Belichick knows how to find first-round stars, too, including 2008 defensive rookie of the year Jerod Mayo and Pro Bowlers Logan Mankins, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork.

• Best pick: Tom Brady
— The Patriots admit they got lucky finding him in the sixth round in 2000, but at least they were smarter than the 30 other teams that also passed on him multiple times. Probably the best value pick in the history of the NFL.

• Worst pick: Chad Jackson— The 36th pick of the 2006 draft only caught 13 passes for New England.

1B. Scott Pioli, GM, Kansas City Chiefs— He and Belichick are essentially inextricable when it comes to New England's ascendancy. It's too early to assess Pioli's tenure in K.C., though last weekend's haul looks to be among the best of the spring. But the Patriots' success on the personnel side is just as much a credit to Pioli's eye for talent as Belichick's. And the litany of players they plucked from college aside, Pioli and Belichick were masters of using picks as currency for established stars with depressed value (Corey Dillon, Randy Moss) and gems other teams didn't appreciate (Wes Welker). After a recent spotty draft record, the Chiefs were in desperate need of a draft craftsman like Pioli.

• Best pick: Matt Cassel— He barely played at USC, but Pioli took a flier on him in the seventh round of the 2005 draft anyway. Cassel proved in 2008 he can play at a Pro Bowl level, something Pioli is banking he will do for the Chiefs.

• Worst pick: Laurence Maroney— The 2006 first-rounder has never rushed for as many as 900 yards and probably never will for the Patriots, who have opted not to make him a featured back.

CoMoChief 04-30-2010 04:32 PM

RE-

Hammock Parties 04-30-2010 04:33 PM

Uninformed trash.

Sweet Daddy Hate 04-30-2010 05:25 PM

J

Sweet Daddy Hate 04-30-2010 05:25 PM

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Sweet Daddy Hate 04-30-2010 05:25 PM

K

Sweet Daddy Hate 04-30-2010 05:26 PM

E

BigMeatballDave 04-30-2010 05:30 PM

Somewhere, a Drafterbater's head is exploding...

Sweet Daddy Hate 04-30-2010 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCD (Post 6728202)
Somewhere, a Drafterbater's head is exploding...

Or anyone with a brain, yes...:hmmm:

Marcellus 04-30-2010 05:39 PM

ROFL

I cant help but laugh because of all the shit that has been said here. Not saying the article is accurate but the HUGE disparity between public opinion and CP opinion is ****ing hilarious.

CrazyPhuD 04-30-2010 05:42 PM

WTF....doesn't everyone know Tebag is the best GM?

Sweet Daddy Hate 04-30-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6728215)
ROFL

I cant help but laugh because of all the shit that has been said here. Not saying the article is accurate but the HUGE disparity between public opinion and CP opinion is ****ing hilarious.

Yes Marcellus, because the public has ALWAYS been known to be "ahead of the curve", right?

Guzzle boar-jizz; I know someone who can get you hooked up!

Tribal Warfare 04-30-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6728215)
ROFL

I cant help but laugh because of all the shit that has been said here. Not saying the article is accurate but the HUGE disparity between public opinion and CP opinion is ****ing hilarious.

It will be based on what the article stated was Pioli's "best pick" turns out. Some in the media believe that Cassel is the real deal because he had the luxury operating a championship caliber offense, while others have cited he's "Scott Mitchell 2.0". If Cassel turns out to be legit, and not a one year wonder Pioli will looked to be a brilliant GM. If he isn't correct, Scott will be viewed as a stubborn and egotistical by putting everything on a career QB that had one good year that he drafted.

|Zach| 04-30-2010 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6728215)
ROFL

I cant help but laugh because of all the shit that has been said here. Not saying the article is accurate but the HUGE disparity between public opinion and CP opinion is ****ing hilarious.

Love ChiefsPlanet but it is the sports version of the crazy fringe tin foil hat wearers in politics.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUCANTKILLROR (Post 6728229)
Yes Marcellus, because the public has ALWAYS been known to be "ahead of the curve", right?

Guzzle boar-jizz; I know someone who can get you hooked up!

Hey dumbshit, my point wasn't that the public perception is correct. As usual you miss the point.

DeezNutz 04-30-2010 05:54 PM

Well, I'm convinced, and I'm curious how anyone could question this guy's opinion.

After all, is anyone else a writer for USA Today? Didn't think so.

ChiefsCountry 04-30-2010 05:55 PM

Well they did draft the best QB, or lucked into it. They still aren't as good overall as Newsome or Pollian.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6728232)
It will be based on what the article stated was Pioli's "best pick" turns out. Some in the media believe that Cassel is the real deal because he had the luxury operating a championship caliber offense, while others have cited he's "Scott Mitchell 2.0". If Cassel turns out to be legit, and not a one year wonder Pioli will looked to be a brilliant GM. If he isn't correct, Scott will be viewed as a stubborn and egotistical by putting everything on a career QB that had one good year that he drafted.

The end result regardless of the QB is will determine the outcome of Pioli's perception.

If it takes 5 years or 7 years and we win a SB,even with another QB, nobody will give a real shit about what happened his 1st or 2nd year. except a few here.

Key thing is there needs to be continuous improvement and a SB eventually, at least a SB appearance.

If he makes no major improvement he will be justifiably be criticized.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6728239)
Well, I'm convinced, and I'm curious how anyone could question this guy's opinion.

After all, is anyone else a writer for USA Today? Didn't think so.

Well, he nailed this one, I hope.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...-preview_N.htm



By Nate Davis, USA TODAY
USA TODAY kicks off its draft series by analyzing the defensive backs available in the April 22-24 NFL draft. Also in this article: Cream of the crop among defensive backs and teams in need.

Eric Berry doesn't want to be painted into a corner any more than he wants to be painting in a corner.

Asked where he hopes to play in the NFL, the former two-time All-American from Tennessee equivocates. "Really, I like playing safety," he says of his natural position. "(But) I enjoy playing nickel, too, because I can also come on blitzes and play bump-and-run."

It's that kind of versatility (he was also occasionally deployed at linebacker by the Vols) and willingness to play multiple roles that's made Berry a top prospect in the 2010 draft class.

"He may be the best all-around athlete in the draft," says ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay. And his value may be appreciating as the pro game evolves.

"I do think (safety) is becoming more important," says McShay, "as tight ends are becoming a bigger part of the offense and they're spreading out with three, four receivers. … You gotta find guys that can cover, period, whether you classify them as a corner or a safety.

"I wouldn't have a problem with Eric Berry going in the top five picks."

An outcome that seems a very real possibility.

Berry spoke to USA TODAY on Wednesday night after flying into Cleveland for a meeting with the Browns. He's also visited the Washington Redskins, Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles and still has an appointment with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Of those five teams, only the Eagles don't own a top-seven pick, though with five selections among the first 87, they could move up the board to get Berry if they choose.

"I've kind of been star struck," says Berry. "Meeting coaches and players like (Redskins defensive backs) DeAngelo Hall and LaRon Landry— it's been a great experience."

Berry's natural leadership is yet another attribute of a player who was elected a Tennessee captain as a sophomore and junior.

"Players gravitate towards him," says longtime NFL defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin, who reprised the same role for one year in Knoxville before following his son Lane, the Vols' former head coach, to USC. "He's a total package, a great leader."

Berry credits his father, James (a former Tennessee running back who was good enough to get a tryout with Tom Landry's Dallas Cowboys), with nurturing his leadership skills.

"I stepped up and started speaking my freshman season," says Eric. "I was credible, accountable and producing on the field."

He also says his father fueled his NFL aspirations by employing him as a painter during hot summers in their native Georgia.

"It was some of the hardest work I've ever done in my life," Berry laughs. "I said, 'I'm not doing this.' "

So he went to work honing his football skills instead.

"I used Ed Reed's tactics at free safety and (mimic) his ball instincts, and I used Troy Polamalu's aggressiveness — I love the way he brings players down," says Berry, who's drawn comparisons to both all-pros.

Monte Kiffin, who encouraged Berry, 21, to go pro early, utilized his star somewhat like Polamalu, moving him all over the field. But Berry also had production similar to Reed's, returning three of his 14 career thefts for touchdowns and falling 7 yards shy of matching Terrell Buckley's NCAA record 501 interception return yards.

Given his multi-faceted assignments, Kiffin believes Berry can be plugged into any NFL defense and start from Day 1.

"System won't matter," says Kiffin, an advocate of the Tampa 2 in the pros. "You can't go wrong taking the guy."

Kiffin also lauds Berry's studiousness and off-field dedication.

"The film room is my best friend," says Berry.

No surprise from a guy who'd rather brush up on his next opponent than have a paintbrush in his hand.

"I have to pinch myself," he says. "It's a lifelong dream. I have to ask myself, is this really happening?"

Tribal Warfare 04-30-2010 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6728244)
The end result regardless of the QB is will determine the outcome of Pioli's perception.

If it takes 5 years or 7 years and we win a SB,even with another QB, nobody will give a real shit about what happened his 1st or 2nd year. except a few here.

Key thing is there needs to be continuous improvement and a SB eventually, at least a SB appearance.

If he makes no major improvement he will be justifiably be criticized.



It's all additive because the QB situation with Cassel/Pioli will determine their fates concerning the franchise's chances to the SB. With the 5 to 7 years to an SB talk? It's quite fitting that someone on the BB, has anointed Pioli as the new Carl Peterson. this is year 2 next year KC should make a serious push in the playoffs.If they are not then it is Pioli fault for not having the tools necessary for the team to succeed.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6728254)
It's all additive because the QB situation with Cassel/Pioli will determine their fates concerning the franchise's chances to the SB. With the 5 to 7 years to an SB talk? It's quite fitting that someone on the BB, has anointed Pioli as the new Carl Peterson. this is year 2 next year KC should make a serious push in the playoffs.If they are not then it is Pioli fault for not having the tools necessary for the team to succeed.

Who anointed Pioli the next Carl? Not me. We need a playoff contending team soon. I dint say 5 years to the playoffs. I am just being realistic.

Yea you can catch fire in a bottle like Miami did (Playoffs)or like AZ did (SB) 2 years ago but that's just not likely.Miami went backwards after that as did AZ. Now that Warner has retired they are screwed. I want consistency.
When you are where we are, it will take a lot of time to get the talent level to where it needs to be to be an annual contender even if you draft extremely well.

Tribal Warfare 04-30-2010 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6728262)
Who anointed Pioli the next Carl? Not me. We need a playoff contending team soon. I dint say 5 years to the playoffs. I am just being realistic.

Dude, you are suffering "maybe next year syndrome". If results don't occur in a concise time period it won' happen. We shouldn't have to wait half a ****ing decade to expect results.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6728267)
Dude, you are suffering "maybe next year syndrome". If results don't occur in a concise time period it won' happen. We shouldn't have to wait half a ****ing decade to expect results.

READ AGAIN. I never said we shouldn't expect to see immediate results but if you expect a SB next year or the year after that is NUTS.

What concise time period do you have in your mind to make this team a real SB contender?

Tribal Warfare 04-30-2010 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6728275)
READ AGAIN. I never said we shouldn't expect to see immediate results but if you expect a SB next year or the year after that is NUTS.

What concise time period do you have in your mind to make this team a real SB contender?

3 years, just like the average NFL player's career. That's when the players drafted have matured, the veterans the team signed are in place, and have the coaching staff they prefer.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6728279)
3 years, just like the average NFL player's career. That's when the players drafted have matured, the veterans the team signed are in place, and have the coaching staff they prefer.

I hope you are right but lets say it takes until year 3 to get to the AFC Championship and we lose a close game. We play well in year 4 but come up short, year 5 e go to the SB and lose.

Considering where we are right now is that failure? Keep in mind I am not asking for this scenario. If we go to a SB and lose I will be as pissed as anybody.

philfree 04-30-2010 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6728267)
Dude, you are suffering "maybe next year syndrome". If results don't occur in a concise time period it won' happen. We shouldn't have to wait half a ****ing decade to expect results.

I always hate the concept of a 5 year rebuild. We should be a .500 team this year and a playoff team next. If Cassel isn't getting it done this year I think we'll look else where for a QB. If he's playing like he did when he threw the nine picks in three games or whatever it was Croyle will get a shot. Haley and Wies aren't scared to go with the other guy.

PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca 04-30-2010 06:29 PM

Even if you love Pioli, Belichick the Chiefs or Pats, does anyone really think New England is the best drafting team?

Marcellus 04-30-2010 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 6728289)
I always hate the concept of a 5 year rebuild. We should be a .500 team this year and a playoff team next. If Cassel isn't getting it done this year I think we'll look else where for a QB. If he's playing like he did when he threw the nine picks in three games or whatever it was Croyle will get a shot. Haley and Wies aren't scared to go with the other guy.

PhilFree:arrow:

I never said 5 years to the playoffs. I said 5 years for a SB which really isn't outlandish.

To do that we need to be a SB contender by year 3.

Marcellus 04-30-2010 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6728291)
Even if you love Pioli, Belichick the Chiefs or Pats, does anyone really think New England is the best drafting team?

Valid question. I would say Indy.

Mecca 04-30-2010 06:36 PM

I mean that article basically reads 'NE is the supreme team and because of that I'll list both their guys as the top GM".

NE might be the best drafting team if you cut off after the year 2005 or 2006, after that they went in the shitter and became more interested in trading picks than making good selections.

Ebolapox 04-30-2010 07:36 PM

this list? very presumptuous. way too soon to call pioli one of the best decision makers.

Reerun_KC 04-30-2010 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUCANTKILLROR (Post 6728229)
Yes Marcellus, because the public has ALWAYS been known to be "ahead of the curve", right?

Guzzle boar-jizz; I know someone who can get you hooked up!

So what makes message board posters that much smarter than any other fan?

Sweet Daddy Hate 05-01-2010 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 6728576)
So what makes message board posters that much smarter than any other fan?

Uh, because we eat, sleep, and breathe KCC football while this dumbshit works the sports-beat for McNews Today, 'mkay? Thx! :)

|Zach| 05-01-2010 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUCANTKILLROR (Post 6729408)
Uh, because we eat, sleep, and breathe KCC football while this dumbshit works the sports-beat for McNews Today, 'mkay? Thx! :)

I think people here eat, sleep, and breath their own narrative of what the Chiefs are.

B_Ambuehl 05-01-2010 11:36 AM

Pioli was nothing but a myth/media creation conjured up by east coast writers. Belichik always called the shots for that team. It should be obvious based on Belichik's personality that he doesn't bow down to anyone or work "hand in hand" with anyone. Pioli was just along for the ride. If they're gonna call Pioli a bad ass they should should put the same all-star title on the assistants of guys like Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson. I am convinced Clark Hunts lack of football knowledge let to him being swayed by the media that Pioli really was everything they were saying he was. Not the first time a football team has made mistakes based upon myths.

Sweet Daddy Hate 05-01-2010 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6729446)
Pioli was nothing but a myth/media creation conjured up by east coast writers. Belichik always called the shots for that team. It should be obvious based on Belichik's personality that he doesn't bow down to anyone or work "hand in hand" with anyone. Pioli was just along for the ride. If they're gonna call Pioli a bad ass they should should put the same all-star title on the assistants of guys like Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson. I am convinced Clark Hunts lack of football knowledge let to him being swayed by the media that Pioli really was everything they were saying he was. Not the first time a football team has made mistakes based upon myths.

:clap: That's gonna' leave a mark.

Pasta Little Brioni 05-01-2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUCANTKILLROR (Post 6729449)
:clap: That's gonna' leave a mark.

Not really, B isn't the brightest bulb. I'm now a Pioli believer after reading that tripe.

Baby Lee 05-01-2010 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 6728233)
Love ChiefsPlanet but it is the sports version of the crazy fringe tin foil hat wearers in politics.

Are you somehow suggesting that those who don't share the opinion that Cassel was Pioli's BEST move is a fringe lunatic?

Pioli Zombie 05-01-2010 06:02 PM

Hmmmmm. Who has more credibility? Every football expert in the country,including media,players, and coaches? Or a group on Chiefs Planet? Hmmmmmmmm

TEX 05-01-2010 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6729930)
Hmmmmm. Who has more credibility? Every football expert in the country,including media,players, and coaches? Or a group on Chiefs Planet? Hmmmmmmmm

Hmmmmmmm......Ever hear what most of those same "experts" said about Ryan Sims? Ever hear what a group of Planeteers said about him? :hmmm:

For the record - I sitll think Matt Cassel blows no matter what the "experts" say. Moss & Co. could make any QB look good. When you think of what was available in the draft last year at QB, no way that deal should have been done. And if you choose to believe your "experts", then Belichik is # 1 and the whole Cassel to KC deal could mean that Pioli got owned...

Pioli Zombie 05-01-2010 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 6729965)
Hmmmmmmm......Ever hear what most of those same "experts" said about Ryan Sims? Ever hear what a group of Planeteers said about him? :hmmm:

For the record - I sitll think Matt Cassel blows no matter what the "experts" say. Moss & Co. could make any QB look good. When you think of what was available in the draft last year at QB, no way that deal should have been done. And if you choose to believe your "experts", then Belichik is # 1 and the whole Cassel to KC deal could mean that Pioli got owned...

Will I will agree that given a choice I would put more faith in Belichick than in Pioli anyday. Belichick is a proven football GOD and Pioli still needs to prove himself, which I believe he will. I think its crap, however, when someone says ANYONE could have done in 2008 what Cassel did. That just shows football ignorance. Brodie Croyle would not have gone 11-5, thrown for nearly 4,000 yards, and had Patriot fans won over by seasons end. Give both Pioli and Cassel this year before you throw in the towel. If they don't go 8-8 blast away

Tribal Warfare 05-01-2010 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6729996)
Brodie Croyle would not have gone 11-5, thrown for nearly 4,000 yards, and had Patriot fans won over by seasons end. Give both Pioli and Cassel this year before you throw in the towel. If they don't go 8-8 blast away

Dude Todd Collins could've done the same thing Cassel did in '08. Even Grbac with the NE offensive weapons on the Patriots could've pulled the exact same result.

Pioli Zombie 05-01-2010 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6730038)
Dude Todd Collins could've done the same thing Cassel did in '08. Even Grbac with the NE offensive weapons on the Patriots could've pulled the exact same result.

Total complete Bullshit and just shows you didn't watch many Patriots games in 2008.

Tribal Warfare 05-01-2010 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6730062)
Total complete Bullshit and just shows you didn't watch many Patriots games in 2008.

http://www.nfl.com/players/elvisgrba...e?id=GRB059326

http://www.nfl.com/players/toddcolli...e?id=COL694708

Yeah looking at their stats yep it could've happened.

Of course your a total Cassel fanboy it will fall on deaf ears

boogblaster 05-01-2010 08:49 PM

Well its easy to say we're a team in progress .. hopefully they come up with a NT and a couple LBs or its all for nothing ...

Dylan 05-01-2010 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6729446)
Pioli was nothing but a myth/media creation conjured up by east coast writers. Belichik always called the shots for that team. It should be obvious based on Belichik's personality that he doesn't bow down to anyone or work "hand in hand" with anyone. Pioli was just along for the ride. If they're gonna call Pioli a bad ass they should should put the same all-star title on the assistants of guys like Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson. I am convinced Clark Hunts lack of football knowledge let to him being swayed by the media that Pioli really was everything they were saying he was. Not the first time a football team has made mistakes based upon myths.

:facepalm:

DaWolf 05-01-2010 10:14 PM

It's easy to call BB a genius, but two things to note (as people like to point out that Parcells hasn't done anything without BB on his sideline):

1) He hasn't done anything of note in the NFL when Pioli wasn't his personnel director
2) He hasn't done anything of note in the NFL without Tom Brady running his team

He's an outstanding coach, but sometimes his genius seems over hyped. I look at a guy like Joe Gibbs, who won three titles with three different non-HOF QB's, and am more impressed by that track record...

KC Jones 05-01-2010 10:50 PM

All I know, is I can't wait for the day Scott Pioli hoists that magical trophy over his head. You know, the trophy for winning the draft. That's going to be an awesome day!

KCrockaholic 05-01-2010 10:54 PM

Bill Polian is the best in the Biz IMO. I hate Indy, but Polian is incredible, and I was actually surprised to see Pioli's name that high on the poll. I like Pioli a lot, but I don't hold him to that standard. I think he has the Chiefs on a great track though.

CarlPeterson_fan 05-02-2010 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 6730038)
Dude Todd Collins could've done the same thing Cassel did in '08. Even Grbac with the NE offensive weapons on the Patriots could've pulled the exact same result.

I agree completely. Another example would be Gannon in Oakland. Throwing to Rice and Brown, Jamarcus Russell could have taken that team to the SB. Cassel=Gannon

Pasta Little Brioni 05-02-2010 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan (Post 6730288)
:facepalm:

Somebody call the Ambuehlamps.

Pioli Zombie 05-02-2010 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlPeterson (Post 6730479)
I agree completely. Another example would be Gannon in Oakland. Throwing to Rice and Brown, Jamarcus Russell could have taken that team to the SB. Cassel=Gannon

Couldn't be that Gannon improved his game with more experience and Gruden being his coach and better talent. Yeah that would simply be awful if the Chiefs gave Cassel better coaching and weapons and he went out and became an MVP QB and takes his team to the Super Bowl. Yeah, who would want that????

You have proven yourself to be a total douchebag to actually to say that Cassel equals Gannon as a BAD THING.

Pioli Zombie 05-02-2010 09:09 AM

Oh, and how could I forget your biggest douchebag football ignorant point. That fat ass Russell could have taken the 2002 Raiders to the Super Bowl. You should not be allowed to ever watch a football game ever again.

Chiefshrink 05-02-2010 10:02 AM

I would think the Steelers Organization should have been mentioned in this article

B_Ambuehl 05-02-2010 10:58 AM

Colts, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Steelers

Every single one of those teams have handed the patriots their ass and their balls as far as consistency in the draft over time. Every single one of them has a GM and every single one of those GMs has a director of pro personnel/assistant/"right hand man". Why haven't you heard of any of them?

The only reason anyone even knows about Pioli is because there is so much national media in the Patriots back yard and so much obsession with the Pats.

The Pats made some good trades and signed some good FAs when Pioli was there but that doesn't even apply to this Chiefs team who is active in neither.

I think for the most part people are starting to realize they've been sold a bill of goods. There will always be Pioli ballwashers but at least there's a big difference now compared to last year. If I'm a betting man I say the failure of Cassell will pretty much seal the deal for the majority. We'll have to revisit this topic next year for sure.

FD 05-02-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6730819)
Colts, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Steelers

These 5 teams combined for 4 Superbowls in the past decade, the Patriots went to 4 themselves and won 3. Maybe that has something to do with the "ballwashing"?

Pioli Zombie 05-02-2010 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forward Dante (Post 6730976)
These 5 teams combined for 4 Superbowls in the past decade, the Patriots went to 4 themselves and won 3. Maybe that has something to do with the "ballwashing"?

Exactly. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Colts and Steelers. But all this ballwashing that goes on at CP for the Eagles,Ravens,Chargers,and Packers amuses me. Those 4 teams have won shit.

milkman 05-02-2010 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6731219)
Exactly. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Colts and Steelers. But all this ballwashing that goes on at CP for the Eagles,Ravens,Chargers,and Packers amuses me. Those 4 teams have won shit.

The fact is that those teams have done a better job of drafting overall through the years, but it all comes back to Tom Brady.

And when you look at it, guys like Willie McGinest, Teddy Bruski, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, etc...etc... who were big contributors to those SB teams, were all drafted before BB, or signed as free agents.

B_Ambuehl 05-03-2010 11:33 AM

Exactly. There's a lot more that goes into winning games than drafting. You have free agency, trades, coaching, luck, and cheating, and the Pats used every one of them. The only thing Pioli can do here is draft. Clark isn't gonna do trades and isn't gonna do free agency, and Pioli doesn't coach. so he (Clark) shoulda made damn sure he hired a master of the draft. As Pioli has proven thru his drafting record in NE and 2 years here, there were assuredly better potential hires out there.

Jethopper 05-03-2010 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6729446)
Pioli was nothing but a myth/media creation conjured up by east coast writers. Belichik always called the shots for that team. It should be obvious based on Belichik's personality that he doesn't bow down to anyone or work "hand in hand" with anyone. Pioli was just along for the ride. If they're gonna call Pioli a bad ass they should should put the same all-star title on the assistants of guys like Ozzie Newsome and Ted Thompson. I am convinced Clark Hunts lack of football knowledge let to him being swayed by the media that Pioli really was everything they were saying he was. Not the first time a football team has made mistakes based upon myths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUCANTKILLROR (Post 6729449)
:clap: That's gonna' leave a mark.

Wrong! You should check out BB's record without Tom Brady.... Losing.

Mecca 05-03-2010 11:44 AM

Draft failures have put NE in the position they are in now of getting their asses handed to them by the Ravens on their homefield in the playoffs.

The Packers ability to draft has set them up as possibly the best setup team moving forward from here.

To just dismiss them as "oh they haven't won shit" is naive at best.

Amnorix 05-03-2010 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6728291)
Even if you love Pioli, Belichick the Chiefs or Pats, does anyone really think New England is the best drafting team?

If you had asked me in 2004, I would have said yes.

Now, I'd say the Patriots have the best draft strategy (the pick trading, which drives many Pats fans nuts), but haven't been the best talent evaluators the last few years, which would seem to put them a rung below the Polians and Newsomes.

That said, I'm not sure how many, if any, are ahead of them OTHER than Polian and Newsome.

Amnorix 05-03-2010 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732510)
Draft failures have put NE in the position they are in now of getting their asses handed to them by the Ravens on their homefield in the playoffs.

The Packers ability to draft has set them up as possibly the best setup team moving forward from here.

To just dismiss them as "oh they haven't won shit" is naive at best.

So how bad are the Patriots at the draft anyway. Seems to me that three Super Bowl victories (and four appearances), the second most regular season wins in the NFL over the last decade, the near-perfect season, and an NFL record nine straight years with either the best, or tied for the best, record in their division suggests they don't completely suck at it, no?

I know it's popular to pick Polian and Newsome as the best. See my prior post. But those guys don't have as many SB appearances or victories BETWEEN THEM as the Patriots do alone, over the timeframe from when BB took over the Pats, right?

Mecca 05-03-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6732528)
If you had asked me in 2004, I would have said yes.

Now, I'd say the Patriots have the best draft strategy (the pick trading, which drives many Pats fans nuts), but haven't been the best talent evaluators the last few years, which would seem to put them a rung below the Polians and Newsomes.

That said, I'm not sure how many, if any, are ahead of them OTHER than Polian and Newsome.

Green Bay has to be up there close, they completely turned their team around using 95% draft.

And I basically agree with what you said if you cut at 2005 it's arguable the Patriots are the best draft team, since then it's all changed. Anymore it looks like the Pats are more interested in trading picks than making good selections.

It comes back to this, it doesn't matter if you have 500 picks, or 22 2nd rounders if you don't make good selections or half the picks don't make your team because they aren't good enough to beat out the guys you have.

Hootie 05-03-2010 11:55 AM

dumbasses like Mecca want to paint the Pats as some sort of "drafting failures" over the past 5 years or so but don't want to count Randy Moss and Wes Welker as draft picks...even though they spent picks to acquire them...

so why aren't we counting Moss and Welker...they spent a 2nd, 4th and 7th for those guys and in all honesty they are probably worth 4 or 5 1st round picks in true value...

that's not winning THAT draft? That was an EPIC win.

Amnorix 05-03-2010 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6730819)
Colts, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Steelers

Every single one of those teams have handed the patriots their ass and their balls as far as consistency in the draft over time. Every single one of them has a GM and every single one of those GMs has a director of pro personnel/assistant/"right hand man". Why haven't you heard of any of them?

The only reason anyone even knows about Pioli is because there is so much national media in the Patriots back yard and so much obsession with the Pats.

The Pats made some good trades and signed some good FAs when Pioli was there but that doesn't even apply to this Chiefs team who is active in neither.

I think for the most part people are starting to realize they've been sold a bill of goods. There will always be Pioli ballwashers but at least there's a big difference now compared to last year. If I'm a betting man I say the failure of Cassell will pretty much seal the deal for the majority. We'll have to revisit this topic next year for sure.

Hunh. Silly me. I thought it was more because of this:

Super Bowl appearances / victories since 2000:

Colts, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Steelers (together as a group): 5/3

Patriots: 4/3

Mecca 05-03-2010 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 6732542)
So how bad are the Patriots at the draft anyway. Seems to me that three Super Bowl victories (and four appearances), the second most regular season wins in the NFL over the last decade, the near-perfect season, and an NFL record nine straight years with either the best, or tied for the best, record in their division suggests they don't completely suck at it, no?

I know it's popular to pick Polian and Newsome as the best. See my prior post. But those guys don't have as many SB appearances or victories BETWEEN THEM as the Patriots do alone, over the timeframe from when BB took over the Pats, right?

Since 05/06 they have not drafted well at all, it's why the team is getting old and less talented, namely on defense. Sure they have a hit here and there like Mayo.

Even in the perfect season attempt that team was full of FA and trade contributors that were brought in to mask the draft failures, namely at WR at that time. That's not to say I disliked the moves but that's what it was, and when you rely upon older players your team falls off a cliff faster especially when there aren't young players waiting to take over.

Basically the almost perfect season and then the subsequent year which I thought would kind of be the Pats last ride for a shot at a SB ended when Brady's knee went and now the Patriots while still competing are in a bit of a rebuilding position.

Sometimes I Just don't understand them, they got owned in the front 7 and respond by drafting a CB...they need an end badly, Spikes solid pick but without a starting caliber end and some better rush OLB's the defense is going to continue to struggle regardless of how many CB's they draft.

Also this obsession NE has with TE's boggles my mind, meanwhile Laurence Maroney is still the starting RB.

Amnorix 05-03-2010 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732548)
Green Bay has to be up there close, they completely turned their team around using 95% draft.

And I basically agree with what you said if you cut at 2005 it's arguable the Patriots are the best draft team, since then it's all changed. Anymore it looks like the Pats are more interested in trading picks than making good selections.

It comes back to this, it doesn't matter if you have 500 picks, or 22 2nd rounders if you don't make good selections or half the picks don't make your team because they aren't good enough to beat out the guys you have.

The Patriots philosophy regarding trading picks has been completely consistent. Remember, we traded the #1 pick in 2003 to the Ravens and got their 2nd that year (Eugene Wilson) and their #1 in 2004 (Vince Wilfork). Those kinds of maneuvers aren't new.

We whiffed in '06 and '08. The '07 class was weak (per BB) and we traded for MOss and Welker, which is a clear win. The '09 class is looking very solid, and nobody knows about '10, but having had four picks in the first two rounds, and being set up with 4 more in the first two rounds next year, I'd say we're well positioned.

But yes, having alot of picks only matters if you use them well.

Mecca 05-03-2010 12:00 PM

Moss and Welker get acquired because of draft failures, if they had hit on a WR pick instead of using a high 2 on Chad Jackson they aren't making trades for 30+ year old WR's.

Age is why the team is starting to fall, teams age when they don't properly draft young players that can be, this concept is pretty easy to understand.

Hootie 05-03-2010 12:01 PM

and now the Jets have all of the hype...

and I'm going to win an assload of money when the Pats win the division yet again...

That will be the easy money futures pick of the year...

The Jets might be favored to win that division...and when that happens...I'm dropping $1,000 on WHATEVER odds they give the Patriots...

Mecca 05-03-2010 12:02 PM

I'd think the Ravens should have more hype than the Jets, their offseason is better.

Hootie 05-03-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732578)
Moss and Welker get acquired because of draft failures, if they had hit on a WR pick instead of using a high 2 on Chad Jackson they aren't making trades for 30+ year old WR's.

Age is why the team is starting to fall, teams age when they don't properly draft young players that can be, this concept is pretty easy to understand.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Welker was like 25 or 26 when they acquired him...

Moss went from the premiere NFL receiver to Oakland where they pawned him off for a 4th round pick...

The Patriots spent a 2nd, a 4th and a 7th for two all-pro receivers who turned that offense into a freaking juggernaut.

and you're trying to act like the 2007 draft was a failure?

THEY GOT MOSS AND WELKER OUT OF THAT DRAFT...THOSE TWO ALONE MAKE THAT DRAFT AN A+++++++++++++++++

Hootie 05-03-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732581)
I'd think the Ravens should have more hype than the Jets, their offseason is better.

they are in different ****ing divisions, dumb ****

Hootie 05-03-2010 12:04 PM

they traded for a 30 year old Randy Moss in 2007, and a 26 year old Wes Welker...but solid point about trading for 30+ year old receivers to mask past failures LMAO

Amnorix 05-03-2010 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732571)
Since 05/06 they have not drafted well at all, it's why the team is getting old and less talented, namely on defense. Sure they have a hit here and there like Mayo.

'09 is looking perfectly good so far. '07 was a weak class, and we traded picks to get Welker and Moss, which is a clear win.

'05 was fine. Logan Mankins (1) is a pro bowl guard. Ellis Hobbs (3) was a starting corner who was not quite average and ultimately traded to the Eagles for 2 fifth round picks. Nick Kaczur (3) has been our starting right tackle for several years, though he is average at the position, not elite. Matt Cassel (7) was our starting QB when Brady went down, and was ultimately packaged to the Chiefs along with aging veteran Mike Vrabel for a high 2nd round pick. You can't call a draft like that a failure.''

'06 and '08 were mediocre, no argument there. I wonder if EVERY draft the Colts and Ravens have had over the last 10 years have been solid, or if they had some misses. Our misses were emphasized because they were back to back, ignoring a weak draft class that we traded out of to get veteran talent, meaning three straight years of no young talent in the pipeline.

Quote:

Even in the perfect season attempt that team was full of FA and trade contributors that were brought in to mask the draft failures, namely at WR at that time. That's not to say I disliked the moves but that's what it was, and when you rely upon older players your team falls off a cliff faster especially when there aren't young players waiting to take over.

Basically the almost perfect season and then the subsequent year which I thought would kind of be the Pats last ride for a shot at a SB ended when Brady's knee went and now the Patriots while still competing are in a bit of a rebuilding position.

Sometimes I Just don't understand them, they got owned in the front 7 and respond by drafting a CB...they need an end badly, Spikes solid pick but without a starting caliber end and some better rush OLB's the defense is going to continue to struggle regardless of how many CB's they draft.

Also this obsession NE has with TE's boggles my mind, meanwhile Laurence Maroney is still the starting RB.

You seem to know alot about the Patriots, but don't understand them well.

CB isn't a screaming need, but with Marshall and whathisface joining our division, and with the league still remarkably pass-happy, you really need 3 quality starting corners. We have 1-1/2 (Bodden and Butler). A third makes sense if he grades out that high both because three are good, and in case of injury.

We addressed our crying needs -- TE, LB, WR, in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. What's the issue?

RB is an issue. Our stable of RBs, if they all stay healthy, are decent but unexceptional, and remarkably old. Maybe the draft didn't quite fall the right way for them to take a RB. You can't reach desperately just because you'd like a guy at a certain position. Also, we had more than just RB to fill, in terms of need.

Two of the first four picks were front 7. Then you add 2nd and 3rd year, top 3 round picks like McKenzie and Tate who are also LBs with talent, if they can stay on teh damn field, and you have no lack of young talent. We also signed Warren, who is a solid veteran even if he has never performed up to his draft position.

Mecca 05-03-2010 12:05 PM

:facepalm:

You are so heavily invested in the Jets sucking it makes me laugh, you talk about their hype all the ****ing time. From superbowl hype to this so don't give me this bullshit you reerun.

Brock 05-03-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732581)
I'd think the Ravens should have more hype than the Jets, their offseason is better.

Durrr, I wonder why that's not happening.

CoMoChief 05-03-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon (Post 6732551)
dumbasses like Mecca want to paint the Pats as some sort of "drafting failures" over the past 5 years or so but don't want to count Randy Moss and Wes Welker as draft picks...even though they spent picks to acquire them...

so why aren't we counting Moss and Welker...they spent a 2nd, 4th and 7th for those guys and in all honesty they are probably worth 4 or 5 1st round picks in true value...

that's not winning THAT draft? That was an EPIC win.

But they didn't DRAFT those guys, which is the whole point. Whether picks were used via trade doesn't matter.

Mecca 05-03-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon (Post 6732593)
they traded for a 30 year old Randy Moss in 2007, and a 26 year old Wes Welker...but solid point about trading for 30+ year old receivers to mask past failures LMAO

Even the Patriots fan here is admitting to FA and trade moves to mask draft failures, so maybe you should look in the mirror when you wanna call someone a dumb****.

Hootie 05-03-2010 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732596)
:facepalm:

You are so heavily invested in the Jets sucking it makes me laugh, you talk about their hype all the ****ing time. From superbowl hype to this so don't give me this bullshit you reerun.

What are you talking about?

I think it's HYSTERICAL that they BACKED into the playoffs...Sanchez had a TERRIBLE year...and they are basically the same team they were last year...

They beat a terrible Bengals team (that I predicted would happen)...and then stunned the world when they beat the Chargers (nothing to do with Sanchez, I'll tell you that)...and then the Colts made that defense look like the Chiefs defense...

That team is so overhyped right now it isn't even funny...

They are going to be the odds on favorite to win a division the Pats have OWNED for almost a decade...

You're god damn right I'm excited...the Pats are going to win me EASY money. EASY, EASY money.

I might get 3:1 on the Pats winning that division...

3:1...

In 2007 it was probably 1:10...even last year...it was probably 1:4 or 1:5


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