The Theory Of The Humongous Stones Thread
 

Whilst working this evening, I happened to have the TV tuned to the History Channel as they were re-airing a documentary on Ancient Aliens. Basically, it was the same old hash about huge, old monuments and the assumed difficulties involved in building them without the use of technology in some form or fashion ... blah, blah, ho hum, etc.

But then, all of a sudden, this one wacky dude made a statement that caught my attention. He said, "Why would the builders make their job so much more difficult by carving, transporting, and elevating these mammoth, individual stones?"

When you think about it, that's a darn good question. The weights we're talking about are formidable. For example, The Colossi of Memnon in Egypt are carved from two stones weighing an estimated 1000 tons each (some archaeologists peg them at 1200 tons each, actually).

Then there's the Stellae of Axum which weighs about 500 tons, the Ramesseum in Egypt which weighs in at an estimated 1000 tons, the 'Stone of the South' in Lebanon which is around 1200 tons, and the Unfinished Obelisk also in Egypt and also in the 1200 ton range. And these are just a few examples of enormous, megalithic stones which modern builders would have great difficulty manipulating in a construction setting.

The reason is that there are a variety of modern cranes rated to the 100- to 300-ton capacity. However, it takes a custom crane to lift anything beyond that tonnage. NASA, for example, had to build a custom crane with a lifting capacity of 430 tons to lift the shuttle. And, a New York engineering company has a specialty crane with a lift capacity of 500 tons that is used to lift other cranes to the top of high-rise construction sites. So far, I haven't identified any modern crane with the lift capacity to handle a 1000 ton rock. And, of course, that's just lifting ... not transporting, or manipulating the stone into place at the job site.

Okay, so these builders liked big rocks. I get that part. However, it's completely obvious that they could have used smaller stones that were easier to quarry, easier to transport, and far easier to use in construction to accomplish the same building objectives. So why did they choose to make their job so much more difficult by using these enormous stones?

The argument for many "ancient technology" theorists seems to be that the builders used big rocks because, for them, it just wasn't all that difficult ... in other words, they had super secret methods and means of which we modern dudes are unaware (like those used by the crazy Coral Castle guy, maybe).

I know that Planeteers understand building stuff, hauling stuff, and stacking stuff, so I thought I'd throw this thread out there to see what you guys think about the question. Is it possible that the ancients worked with megalithic stones because they had the ability to do so easily? Or, were they just making their slaves work their asses off for the sheer joy of it?

FAX

Disclaimers: Sorry if repost.

Repost.

If you believe in Dan's Brown theory, which is put forth in his latest novel "The Solomon Key", the Ancient Mysteries also include the forgotten and long lost power of the human mind and "collective consciousness".

He basically states that human beings when focusing on one event, whether it be prayer or moving 500 ton stones, can accomplish God-like "miracles" with the power of the human mind.

They didn't have TV back then FAX.

Okay. Power of combined consciousness. I can grok that. No problem.

And regardless of how skeptical you repost police and critics and neer-do-wells may be about the megalithic constructions throughout the world, the question of, "Why would they use the big rocks when they didn't have to ..." is a damn good question, in my book anyhow.

Sure, they were barely out of prehistoric times and, therefore, stupid ... but, damn. One would think that eventually somebody would have said, "Hey! Let's stop carrying these big ass rocks and, instead, let's use lots of little ones."

FAX

They didn't carry them, they used their collective consciousness to move them telepathically.

Easy as pie.

They must have had really big trucks back then because I rarely transport anything that won't fit on my truck. I can get some 4'x16' sheetrock on there.

I wonder how many people it took to "think move" a 1000 ton rock a dozen or so miles ...

For that matter, I wonder how many people it would take to "think" the BP oil gusher to stop. That would be damn cool, actually. We could get a medal probably. Maybe even some free gas.

FAX

You're high.

Collective People: We stopped the oil gusher! Now we get free gas from BP as part of their gratitude!

BP: lol no

Collective People: But we fixed your problem. You should repay us!

BP: Well, that's what you get for thinking

*rimshot*

Wouldn't that be telekenetically?

My apologies.

I typed that message using telekinesis while communicating telepathically with my wife.

How many men does it take to lift a two ton car?

World's Strongest Ancient Dudes Comptetitions.

Moving large heavy boulders and statues is one thing, carving something like this without using diamonds... ****ing impossible (only rock harder than the one being carved is a ****ing diamond)!

This one has equidistant holes drilled in the carved line. It almost looks like the way we fasten metal or plastic pieces to each other today... imagine a strip of gold or silver running down the insert cut out, and the back of the metal would have pegs that snap into the equidistant holes. At least that is what it looks like to me.
http://www.laue-verlagshaus.com/deut...%20(Small).jpg


This is pretty ingenious. Apparently similar "metal ties" have been found in Egypt and Angkor Watt. What I think is pretty cool is that they are all the exact same size and cut (the metal tie inserts).
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/Imag...pumapunka4.jpg
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/su...es/godsne8.gif

These are just ****ing fascinating to me. The show FAX is talking about had a guy on there that uses the same tools that ancients used (the ones found), and he basically said there is no way to do this without some form of modern tools (diamond tipped cutting devices or ultra high heat torches).
http://www.paleoseti.com/bilder/puma...20Punku032.jpg
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/p...um/1286497.jpg
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/cimage...oto_medium.jpg
http://www.sacredsites.com/africa/et...belisk-500.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/...2a32a5f407.jpg
Then there are these ****ing blocks. They work like giant granite legos.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DTk1uyG8OX...ku_letters.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Mpl61.jpg

This is all fascinating shit. They apparently hauled these stones (without trees to use in any way) 10 miles from the quarry to their temple spot at 4000 meters above sea level. Then they carved the 2nd hardest stone, diorite (2nd to diamond), by hand using copper and the same diorite... even though copper isn't strong enough to do this, and using diorite to cut itself would take almost forever. Either they had help or they threw all their tools into some sea or we have severely underestimated how boring their lives were and the collective willpower of a people with no written language (but apparently masters of mathematics through oral discussion/tradition).

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Oh yeah, I forgot, the massive ****ing stone walls/terraces. No mortar is used, nor is there a simple angle on any stone, yet they all fit together perfectly.
http://www.world-mysteries.com/vitri...taytambo02.jpg
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_8stn3.jpg

I'll ask this of my hot GF tonight as she's working on the Unfinished Penis and its two ginormous rocks.

This all happened before steroids were banned.

They were Jedi knights.

I'll have to check that book out sometime soon. I enjoyed DaVinci Code before it went big time.

Jesus said that with faith the size of a mustard seed (very small) a man can tell a mountain to move and it will move. I have always felt that this is a direct comment to the power we have in our brains that is currently untapped. I can see how this "brainpower" could have worked in this kind of situation.

The nazis were big time into this.

http://greyfalcon.us/Ahnenerbe.htm

alittle more... http://www.kheper.net/topics/Theosophy/root_races.html

Aliens bak then were huge .. those are alien kidney-stones ...

That's kind of a cool theory.

Let's test it. I have a paper clip that is sitting on a small table in my dining room. (I'm working at home today.) At 8:10 a.m. Mountain Time according to this clock (9:10 a.m. for you central time people), everyone concentrate really hard for one full minute on raising that paper clip.

I'd show a picture of it, but my worry is that people will then concentrate on the picture of the paper clip rather than the paper clip itself. So concentrate on a paper clip that is sitting on a brown granite table next to a pile of Smithsonian magazines in a house in central Denver.

Seriously, folks. Do it. Sixty full seconds of concentration. If we can do this, we'll be rich beyond our wildest dreams.

Two-minute warning.

Ready? Almost there. Seriously. Concentrate.

Okay, how many people did it?

I didn't see it move, so we need more people.

I'm running to the bank to see if I'm rich!

i just moved my bowels by concentrating.
sec

It's obvious we need more brainpower behind this.


We'll try again once cdcox shows up.

The really awful news stemming from all of this is that David killed Goliath - otherwise, we'd all be about 16' tall and not quite as amazed by all these feats of strength in ancient times. Way to go, David! Jerk!

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LMAO.... good call...

If one fella can move giant blocks like this around his back yard... imagine what 10,000 workers could accomplish...

oops

Amazing.

What is really amazing is that he built it, took it down, shipped it ten miles, and reconstructed again...by himself! People estimate he weighed around 100 pounds. He was so tiny that he eventually died of malnutrition.

Yeah, I had never heard of Coral castle. That is amazing. Unbelievable really. I wish he had shared his trick with us before he died.

No one witnessed this happening?

It was in the early 1900's...not B.C.

He worked at night. In secret. Built the whole damn thing using some weird magnetic thingy that levitated the blocks (or so they say).

FAX

Apparently not.

I first heard about Coral Castle on some old show that Leonard Nimoy hosted. None of the locals could catch him moving, setting up, or cutting these big stones. I remember the story of the trucker delivering a large stone, turning his back for a minute, and the old fart some how had the stone unloaded off the truck without a crane or tools.

:hmmm:

If he could levitate boulders, you think he would do something else besides build a castle, then move the castle.

http://pbpl.physics.ucla.edu/Researc...ry/magneto.gif

my grandpa dug out two basement witha pick,shovel, & barrow.

Structures made with little rocks can be disassembled easily by smaller attacking forces. If you need 5,000 people to take apart a huge stone structure, it's going to last a lot longer.

So this ****ing Coral Castle guy figures something out that is badass... but then DOESN'T share the 411. What a Como.

The Coral Castle dude wasn't working with some secret technology. He simply did what most pass off as impossible because we live in an impatient society that relies on giant cranes and power tools to build things quickly. People have forgotten what can actually be accomplished with simple determination, calculation, and elbow grease.

I'm surprised how many people try to explain what they don't understand or don't think possible with the most off the wall illogical possible explanations....

Have you actually seen any of the Ancient Aliens shows? I don't think you're understanding the scale here.

^very correct^
my great uncle does stuff that amazes me. he'll suggest doing something, and i'll say, "piss on that...too much work/need a big tractor/take too long/etc. then a couple days later i'll go home and see that he's done what he suggested. old bastard moves telephone poles that are laying on the ground, skins black locust trees to kill them, changes tires on riding mowers w/o using a jack, etc.

drives me nuts, but he just sets his mind to do it, takes his time, step by step. gets it done.
sec

Yes, I've seen the entire Ancient Aliens series, and I stand by my statement. There's some very interesting stuff on there. A lot that can't be easily explained. But still possible none the less.

Hey FAX, I'm going to hop in my Delorean, (sp?) and check it out. Brb buddy.
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Ok, I'm back. It's not good, either.
Just sit back and accept what our new overlords have for us in about 2 years.
ALL HAIL TEH JUPITORIANS!
Oh, and they moved those stones with Caterpillar tractors, btw.
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jupitorians? is that near uranus?
sec

I have a feeling they will be.
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His anus is pretty big, I hear.

QFT! People back then had brains just like we do.

They never lifted xyz ton obelisks or any stone. It was all about leverage. Comparing cranes that can lift tons and what they did is stupid.

You'll change your tune when archaeologists dig up that big-ass ancient crane, Mr. Stewie.

Anyhow, have you ever seen the NOVA sponsored experiment and documentary in which a gaggle and a half of EngDs, master stonemasons, and Egyptologists attempted to quarry, transport, and elevate a 35 ton obelisk (not one of those 500 ton ones ... just a teensy one) using the materials and techniques the ancient Egyptians are believed to have used? The whole idea was to prove that it could be done.

It was very funny ... hilarious, really. A bunch of sweaty PhDs trying to screw a rock. They got nowhere. They couldn't even cut the stone, let alone move it an inch.

FAX

Somewhat off subject here, but i don't think i wanna make a thread about it either.

Lets say, oh...20 years from now we develop a way to time travel. We time travel back 10,000 years into the past. While we are in the past, one of out time travelers drop a Year 2030 Nickel.

Then, in the year 2011, archeoligists discover this nickel.

Would the nickel be determined to be from the past, or the future? What would Carbon Dating show? How would this nickel fit in with any other artifacts from that area in that time period? How would that nickel change the future?

If we funnel our collective consciousnesseseseseses, we might be able to move this thread off the front page.

The reason I ask is: is it possible, that maybe, we develop methods of time travel in the future, and then go back in time and introduce "primitive" technologies to our ancestors in order to speed up out technological growth rate?

A nickel contains no carbon in which to date... the nickel changes nothing and the experiment is a failure...

So then would it just be considered an artifact from 10,000 years ago with a year 2030 date and American scripture on it?

Would it show as evidence of time travel, or would we just dismiss it?

And what would happen if the nickel was found by a peasant, invested in an aggressive bond fund for the next 9,800 years, and the wealth was used by the finder's descendant to fund the widescale marketing and sales of pocketless pants, which were then worn by the guy who dropped the nickel in the first place except now he wouldn't drop the nickel because it wasn't ever in his pocket?

It would be considered an artifact from the past. They wouldn't be able to tell any past age as far as I know.

I don't know how one would detect evidence of time travel. But carbon dating wouldn't really work to tell time travel like you're describing. An object would show the carbon decay over it's own lifetime, regardless of where it was on the timeline.

Anus jokes ftl.
You're more clever than that, (I hope).

Now, toss my e-salad.
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Is this another thread about Clayton

I just finished reading that (The Lost Symbol). He talked a lot about the Noetic Science stuff figuring this out again. There is such a thing as Noetic Science.

But . . . that's just not how atoms work like we can tell they do. I think it would be cool if it did work, but consider me a serious skeptic.

Well, as far as dating goes (can't be done, but lets say there is a way), the Nickel would show that it was 11,980 years old since it will have existed through that length of time. Now it is somewhat about semantics as far as being from the future or past. If we knew it was from the future I suppose it would be just that, a nickel that was created in 2030 but then left in the past. If we did not know it was from us in the future then I would assume we would say that it was from ~12,000 years ago.

Even though it was dated to the year 2030 and looked like a modern coin and had refrences to modern America?

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense, except one thing. How did he get the pebble underneath that block?

duh, he dug under it :)

I'm lost. He did it on concrete. He cant dig through the concrete.

some things just can't be explained

Funny, that old guy a couple videos up did it by himself.. Sometimes the easiest answer is the hardest..

I am guessing those wooden clamps.. Or hammer a wedge underneath it to insert the stone..

I've been a subscriber to them for a few years. The Noetic Sciences are quite fascinating.

As is Sacred Geometry... and how it relates to DNA. it's amazing.

Cue Pete to be here in 5 seconds to tell us about his mana machine and how there is proof that ancient people got radiation burns from being near the ark.