Haley thinks Cassel's problem was the players around him
 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...rs-around-him/

After signing a $40 million contract and leaving the Patriots for the Chiefs last year, quarterback Matt Cassel saw his passer rating drop from 89.4 in 2008 to 69.9 in 2009.

Chiefs coach Todd Haley thinks that had less to do with Cassel and more to do with the players around him.

"We had 50-plus drops last season. If those don't happen, people would look at Cassel differently," Haley told ESPN.com. "If we get the improved offensive play around him that we hope to, I think people will feel better about Matt Cassel."

Haley thinks the Chiefs have improved the talent on offense, and he says Cassel is doing the necessary work this offseason to make people feel better about him.

"This guy is making progress in a bunch of ways," Haley said. "He had a very difficult year last year, but he didn't crack. That's a good sign. He has been one of our best workers this offseason, if not the best. He's working."

:facepalm:

the draft called, it said "duh..."

Just tell Haley to get ****ed
and you're in

wtf is that thing in your avatar

fish cupcake.

So once we surround Cassel with all Pros, people will feel better about him?

Brilliant....

We should just give him twenty points at the beginning of every game for being so ****ing badass.

Cassel sucks.

Start Croyle.

Croyle is 0-9

Start Cassel(for this year anyway)
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If anyone has an excuse that says it's the players around him, that would be Croyle.

However, he's the football equivalent of Humpty Dumpty, so starting him would only mean we'd see Cassel starting later rather than the start of the season.

Yep I agree.
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arent they the same players?

I agree with you about Croyle, but it still makes me wonder how Damon Huard was able to win 5 games in those two years that Croyle was a "starter"

Croyle's the better QB....it's not even an argument.

Confidence and experience.

Watching Croyle, he has the physical tools to succeed, but he plays tentatively, which I believe Herman ****ing Edwards and Dick Curl are in large part, responsible for.

Huard had nothing to lose.

He was a career backup with little talent, so he put it all out there when he was on the field and had the time in the pocket to make reads and throws.

Croyle showed what he is capable of in the preseason, but as soon as the regular season rolled around, he showed a total lack of confidence in his ability.

But again, it's all moot.

The first time a defender blows some air his way, he'll get something broken.

Given the fact we upgraded the Oline this year, Croyle IMO shouldn't be running for his life like in past seasons. If he were to have any time whatsoever to throw the ball, my guess is that this team would be better overall w/ him behind center. W/ Weis as OC, Croyle IMO would have the right tools and people around him to be successful.

The only reason why Croyle ISN'T the starter is because he's made of glass and had some serious bad luck w/ injuries. Because of that, and Pioli, we are stuck w/ CASSHole at QB.

Herm on Cassel

https://twitter.com/HermEdwardsESPN/status/16546141229

:(:shake::doh!::cuss:

Good Lord, people. He's working his ass off to improve his game and the overall offense. WTF is not to like about that? Lighten up, folks, you'll live longer. I'm actually encouraged by the article, but I am a fan of the team. ;)

Hasn't that been the general consensus anyway? Surround him with 8 pro bowlers and he'll be a good QB....ROFL:shake:

Me on you.

STFU you goddamn Donktard!

Speaking of the Donks.

I bet if King Carl was still around it probably would've been us taking Teebow in the 1st round.

The King would've finally broke down and went after his real QBOTF and WE would've been the dumb fucks taking Teebow in round 1.

Haley is as much to blame as anyone else changing the playbook 10 days before the season started.

I can agree with that somewhat.I thought a lot of his play calling was horrid but I figured most of it came from his lack of confidence in Cassel.One thing is for sure,as bad as it all went down last year we only have one way to go.......Hopefully:doh!:

The Chiefs "could" have legitimately won 5 of the 9 games Croyle started. Four of them in 2007, and the Ravens game last year. Here are the 2007 games he started that could have been won...

2007 season. Croyle starts 6 of last 7 games.

Game 1 is at Indianapolis. Bad news right? Late 3rd, Croyle leads us on 11 play 77 yd drive that ends with 19 yd TD pass to Bowe to tie the score at 10. Then, with about eleven minutes left in the game we get the ball back at own 25, still tied at 10. Croyle hits Gonzo for 7 and Bowe for 14 and we are first and 10 at 45 with nine minutes left. OC (Solari?) goes conservative again, and we punt the ball to Manning with seven minutes left. Manning runs out clock and Colts kick late FG to win 13-10.

Game 2 is Oakland at home. Late 3rd Croyle leads us on 9 play 63 yard drive that ends in TD and a 17-13 lead. Defense forces 3-and-Out. Next drive Croyle takes us 47 yards on 9 more plays to Oakland 15. Rayner misses short FG. Rested defense gives up 3 play 77 yard TD drive. Croyle follows up with 12 play 52 yard drive to Oakland 23. Went for it on 4th and 1 as opposed to FG to tie with 4:22 to go in game. Didn't make it on Smith run. Oakland runs out clock.

Game 3 did not play vs Sandy Eggo

Game 4 got hammered 41-7 at Dennver

Game 5 vs Tennessee lead 14-13 in 3rd. Croyle leads us on 14 play drive that lasts 7:20 seconds and ends in FG for 17-13 lead. Well rested defense gives up 3 play 60 yard TD drive... Ballgame.

Game 6 at Detroit. Down 19-0 early. Played bad. Huard replaces Croyle.

Game 7 at Jets. Ugly game. Down 10-3 middle of 4th quarter. Croyle leads us on 9 play 83 yard drive that ends with 26 yard TD pass to tie game at 10 with 3:07 to go. Get ball back with little over a minute to go, but it was inside our own 20. Game goes to OT. Jets win toss. 11 plays later Jets kick FG to win 13-10.



Now whoever is QB doesn't really matter to me. But I hope one of these two is good, because if not we are still several years more away from being a contender. And God knows, I am definately ready for the Cheifs to be at the top of the food chain instead of at the bottom.

i will say this, Castle really does try his hardest

No one dislikes the fact that he works hard.

That's great.
That's what you want form a player.

But none of it matters if you don't have the necessary talent and physical tools to go along with that hard work.

Cassel is a marginally talented hard worker, and no matter how hard he works, he's never going to be any more than marginally talented.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

He's marginally talented and exceptionally compensated.

Well at least we can tell him to kick rocks after this year if he sucks ass again.Even though I doubt Pioli would do that.I think we "feature" Cassel for several more years.ROFL

There isn't a "marginally talented" player in the NFL. 90 percent of NFL players absolutely dominated on the high school level, and played for major universities at the college level.

Marginally talented football players aren't playing football on any level outside of high school/NAIA.
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He's marginally talented in relation to the rest of the league, and especially in relation to the other quarterbacks making the kind of bank he is the last two years.

Holy shit, you are such an ass.

He's a marginally talented professional player.

Ignoring the QB play for a minute, how many of those offensive players were playing at even a decent NFL level for the first half of the season while Cassel was running for his life?

How many of them were throwing 4 TD against 10 INT down the stretch in the season's second half while the players around them improved?

That's irrelevant to my question. Ignoring the QB, how many offensive players were playing at even a decent NFL level in the first half of the year?

I don't care who's playing with him, the guy made some absolutely horrible throws. His deep ball is especially atrocious. If Bowe and Chambers have to wait on a pass, you know your deep ball sucks.

Thats nothing $200 million cant fix. /Cassel ball washers.

The fact that he didn't improve, and in fact got worse as the play around him did improve, is irrelevant?

Yeah, okay, dumbass.

Name me a QB who hasn't thrown deep balls where a receiver had to wait and you'll be naming a QB who's never yet lived.

How about naming a QB whose every single deep ball is like that? I can name one for sure.

Given that my question was about the first half of the season, yes it is irrelevant.

Ignoring the oil spill, how would you rate the quality of the water in the Gulf?

Now you're just full of shit.

Given that they are still swimming at the beaches, I'd say it's fine.

Yeah, because you can not simply cherry pick how you want to evaluate his play.

He sucked in the first half of the season.

He sucked in the second half, and the play around him in the first half doesn't give him a pass.

Ok.

Given that Tyler Thigpen--yeah, that Tyler Thigpen--posted better stats in 4 less starts, I'd say the talent was fine.

Embellishing slightly, maybe.

But there isn't another QB whose deep ball is or that has been consistently as bad as Cassel's.

And then there's Cassel.

This is a pointless exchange.

Fact: Cassel played like shit in '09.
Fact: He is going to get another chance in '10, and he must play better. No excuses.

I'm sorry but putting hair on Pioli just destroys all identification.

The team around him sucked in the first half. Cassel was hitting players on the numbers and they were dropping the ball. Cassel was running for his life on almost every pass. The running game was 3 feet and a cloud of dust.

It should come as no surprise to anyone with a brain that such a situation would impact the QB and lead to bad habits which will have to be undone. Then again, expecting some of you to use your brains is clearly asking too much.

It's one thing to criticize the player. It's another thing to ignore everything that was going on around him in your haste to bash the guy.

I'm exaggerating, but not very much. His deep ball sucks. It's inarguable.

Even in the first half of the season before the play improved, he left the pocket well before he had too in many of those situations that you refer to as "running for his life", a problem that I bitched about again and again as the season progressed from week one, and sonething that I noted he did when I watched replays of the Patriot games on NFLN from '08.

And he rarely it his receivers in teh numbers.

You're a ****ing idiot to suggest that was the case.

Yes, it's the necessary key to insure a hard-fought loss in rounds 1 or 2.

Consistently. :facepalm:


Snakebit FTW!

And there it was; the cold, hard Truth.:shake:

ROFL

Of course, you ignore the reality that scrambling is part of what scrambling QBs do, that there was generally no pocket to stay in, and the impact that the 10 players who were not playing at decent NFL level around him would have upon him game after game.

So your analysis is worthless, but you got to crack out another insult to someone who got it more accurately than you did. 50/50 post for you. Congrats!

It's completely relevant.

Your point is destroyed because he played just as bad, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

No dumbass, I didn't ignore a thing.

First, Cassel is not a scrambling QB.
He has some good mobility, but he isn't a scrambler.

And the fact is, scrambling QBs scramble of necessity, not simply because they can.

The best scrambler ever, Fran Tarkenton, was first and foremost, a playmaker in the pocket.

The same can be said for Roger Staubach.

As it can for many others.

And the fact remains, there was a pocket to remain in far more than you give this team credit for.

Did he face pressure often?

Yes.

But not nearly to the extent that you are trying to sell.

Sell your bullshit, Pioli/Cassel ball washing elswhere.

I ain't buying it.

part of the problem for Cassel was the player around him

it was also

a new team
new coaches
2 new schemes
a late preseason knee injury
jittery feet
inaccuracy
poor mechanics

some idiots just focus on the last 3 and ignore the rest

NO DEAL!

(Nick Athan shudders somewhere in cyberspace)

Given that you had no idea what my point was going to be, claiming that it was destroyed makes no sense at all.

Wait.... Cassel isn't a scrambling QB?

ROFL


****ing brilliant.


Now tell us that Manning and Brady are just running backs playing the position of QB.

Your point was very clearly that we can't judge Cassel too harshly because he was surrounded by dogshit in the first half of the season.

But your point is bullshit, because he continued to play at the same level, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

Occam's razor states he just sucks.

Running away then bending over to take it in the ass isn't "scrambling".

The Razor has indeed spoken.

No, no. He was so mentally damaged by all of the circumstances around him that he developed bad habits that he couldn't possibly overcome, even when we we had the best running game outside of TN.

You clearly don't even know what a scrambler is.

A scrambler is a guy that can make time behind the line to make plays with his arm.

Matt Cassel is a QB that can run.

There's a big difference.

But, you're a ****ing idiot, so explaining it to you is a waste of keystrokes.

ROFL

A scrambler is a QB who's response to perceived pressure is to run, either to buy time behind the line or to gain yardage with his feet.

A running QB is a QB who's instinct to run is not necessarily impacted by pressure.


You have nothing to explain to me, because you're searching for reasons to bitch rather than making honest evaluations. That's too bad, too. When you're not being an emotionally invested asshole regarding the players, you're one of the better analysts here.

Mentally damaged is over the top. However, players can develop bad habits over the course of time. Cassel wasn't a great QB in the first half of the season, by any stretch, and I'm not making any such claim. However, he was better in the first half than the second, and it's likely that much of that was because of the toll the games took on him. Once a QB starts looking for the rush and stops trusting his receivers, all sorts of bad habits will set in. As a Chiefs fan, you should be hoping that those habits will be dealt with during the offseason, because Cassel's apparently going to be the starter again, whether you like it or not.

The same sort of thing happened in New England, though at a different level. Brady's knee made him more skittish in the pocket, caused his drops to be different, and made him less willing to take a hit. The fact that the team's 3rd wideout was a special teams player who was horrible as a receiver meant that Brady stopped looking his way and began staring down his #1 and #2 receivers, with the resulting bad plays that you'd expect. The results were stark: once the Welker binky was gone and the team had to face the Ravens without him, Brady had one of the worst games of his career. Brady's season numbers were the second best in his career, yet it was clear that he wasn't the Brady he'd been pre-injury, and that impacted the offense and the team.

LMAO

Thanks for making my point.

I don't dispute the fact that poor play around him is going to affect the QB negatively. My biggest complaint with Cassel, and why I think he'll ultimately continue to struggle, is that he's inaccurate and lacks the arm the arm strength that might help him compensate, in certain situations, for his inaccuracy.

I posted this a few weeks ago, and in all fairness to Cassel, I think it bears repeating. In the 5 games that Cassel had both Bowe and Chambers as his 2 starting WR's, he did manage to throw for nearly 70 more yards per game than in the games where he did not have them both on the field. :shrug:

Cassel left the pocket well before it showed the slightest sign of collapsing in alot of plays last year. I guess its just his natural instinct to shift to the right

so when are we trading for Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Because those are the only two guys you can put around Cassel to make him serviceable, and even then, he can't even win the right games to make the playoffs at 11-5.

While I'm not sold on Cassel, laying the blame for missing the playoffs on Cassel is stupid.

And the fact is, Moss didn't show up quite often for Cassel during that season.

He did what Moss does, and quit, to an extent, on the Patriots.