Herolympics Sweaty Sixteen - Round 3, Matchup 1
 

We're down to 16 contestants.

In our first fight, The Terminator takes on Bryan Mills (Taken).

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Page...day-arnold.jpg http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/news/00020964.jpg

Now, we already know humans can take down Terminators. To make the competition fair, we'll assume Bryan Mills has been provided with the resources to take out a Terminator. Perhaps there's a big robot-crushing machine laying around.

Is Bryan Mills capable of figuring out that he's fighting a robot, and then using his particular set of skills to take it down?

Since he has access to a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range, Bryan Mills takes this one.

Access, yes. But we have to consider this: Bryan Mills has never even SEEN a 40-watt plasma rifle. How is he going to know how to pick it up?

if its just mills against the t800, then terminator easily wins. however, if the terminator has been programmed to kidnap mills' daughter and sell her into prostitution, arnie is toast.

There is an instruction manual under that French guy's sink.

LMAO

Bryan Mills will probably cause some damage to our Terminator. He will approach the Term thinking that he's approaching a normal human. Tries to round house kick him to subdue him. To his surprise, the Term will grab his left leg and break it. Proceeds to break Mills' neck and perhaps steal his jacket because BM has a decent taste when it comes to dressing well.

You have been one of the few good Raiders fans. Now, **** it. Your taste in Teams and movies sucks.

Bryan Mills is a fraud who benefited from a surge of sudden hate for Conan The Barbarian.

LMAO....well your favorite team does not speak well for your taste :) I voted for the robot~

Crush, GoChiefs, kstater, Reaper16 Voted for Bryan Mills.

Well, I think he'd stand a chance against the Terminator. Plus, I also think the Terminator is kind of a fraud.

He must have been in a weak bracket?

Sorry if it wasn't intended, but I take into account the quality of the character and the movie the character is from when determining my vote. Even Liam Neeson couldn't save Taken from being a boring pile of shit. Every second where he wasn't killing someone was worthless and there were far too many of those seconds.

I fuggin hate Terminator as the number one seed. Personally, I don't think Terminator should even be on this list.

Agreed...been saying for awhile now that his list was far too broad.

It is not even a hero, just a fuggin killing machine that follows its programming. Doesn't think for itself at all.

I agree, but he is so he gets my vote. Not sure what the bracket looks like but if he was going up against either Lee or Riggs he'd be going down this round for sure. I bet he'll be gone next round.

The problem with the T-800 is that there are a number of modern weapons that could easily dispatch a T-800.

A .50 caliber firing Raufoss ammo would make short work of one.

An RPG would completely incapacitate one as well.

Mills is a smart guy with great skills and training...but he also has access to them.

I need to know more about the dynamics of the situation before I vote.

As a matter of fact, Sarah ****ing Connor should be on this list before the ****ing Terminator.

I hear all of these arguments and they are sound, but I'm a little weary of vague military history and training as a replacement for an original character. At least with the Terminator they had the decency to not insult the audience and just say, "Oh, **** it. He's a future robot."

Every matchup is essentially the same - dimly lit maze, both sides have access to the same weaponry.

Good points on the weapons. The Terminator is not invincible by any means.

And as I stated in the other thread, yes Bryan Mills was in a weak opening heat.

That poll was a fraud. This election is a fraud.

There is nothing wrong with the poll or election. The problem is with everyone voting for a damn machine. ROFL

Taken was a terrible movie, but Liam Neeson was a total badass in it. The voting is for the characters, not the movies.

As I pointed out before, Terminator is a villian (first movie where he was at his best).

An RPG does Mills no good in a maze unless he has about 20 meters of clearance.

I could see Mills, knowing that the T-800 would be after it, using mines to deter the T-800, but they'd have to be anti-tank mines to make a real difference.

The maze analogy is probably not a very good one because it doesn't allow all possibilities and requires pretty much all hand to hand combat.

Let them have it out in a small town or something.

Well he was a hero in 2 and 3. I guess if you count his cameo in Salvation it evens out. I think the argument that he's a machine is stronger, but as I said, like it or not, he's in the running so I'm voting for the best candidate.

There are not words for how disappointed I will be in CP if Mills makes it to the Elite 8. (or whatever GoChiefs calls it.)

It was never a hero. NEVER. Just a killing machine. Hell it even stood on one leg when told to do so. Christ!!!!

LMAO I love that this is being established AFTER half of the field has been eliminated.

LMAO touche`

It was established in the second poll, after the arena setting in the first poll was deemed too favorable to ranged experts.

Sorry, the T2 T-800 is a goddamn hero. He saves Sarah Connor and John Connor despite getting his ass kicked five minutes earlier.

And he goes out like a hero!

http://www.overthinkingit.com/wp-con...01-590x251.jpg

Good point. Still, he imitates a hero, but he is really a slave to programming. I suppose we could get really philisophical about it and say things like, "aren't we all?"

I guess the deciding factor is that I do still get a little misty when he lowers himself into that vat. Hero it is.

Exactly.

And blowing himself up in Terminator 3 was incredibly heroic. That's how bad mother****ers go out.

Not that it will change my opinion but was it established which Terminator was being voted for at the beginning of any poll? There are four movies after all and each is a different terminator.

My argument is that a terminator is a terminator no matter how you slice it. The only thing that was different was their programming. Why did the terminator from T2 not kill people? Because he was told not to. Call John Connor the hero of that movie. He killed the terminator in the end because the terminator couldn't even do that himself.

It's obviously the T-800 from T2.

One aspect of a hero is the inspiration it gives to others. T2 terminator, programmed or not, was single-minded and selfless. Sarah even commented that it was the closest thing to a father John ever had. The actions of that machine (along with the training of his mother) were huge inspirations to a John Conner that until then had shunned his destiny. Since Conner went on to be the savior of the human race I think that speaks highly of the T-800's heroic qualities.

Nicely done. :clap:

The only thing I would disagree with you on is the "single-minded and selfless" part. It can be neither because it can't think for itself.

Still, that was a very well thought out rebuttal.

It actually can think for itself, that's why when they go out in the field, Skynet flips the switch to read only.

That is not thinking for itself. That is blindly following orders. Only in this case it has no choice in the matter. Thinking for ones self requires choice.

Agree with Guru. It is my understanding that while Skynet is sentient, each of it's creations are merely advanced AI operating off programming. I suppose the programming could be so intricate that a terminator's "decisions" would be nearly indistinguishable from rational thought, but I don't think that's the case here. Most of the T-800's responses are pretty transparent and based a a few simple guidelines.

The T-800 is capable of thinking for itself. John Connor wanted to go home in T2.

"Negative. The t-1000 would definitely try to reacquire you there."

Which is why Skynet flips the switch to read only.

If its CPU is switched to where it can think and learn from past experience, it becomes capable of independent choice, including the ability to defy orders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrDo7...eature=related

Skip ahead to 40 seconds.

It's in its programming to know what the other terminator will do. It's a terminator.

Threads like these are why the Herolympics are awesome.

Still no choice involved there. It was completely at the mercy of either Skynet programming or them shutting it down to reset the switch for it to learn. It was still following orders at the end though. If it was able to think for itself why couldn't it self terminate at the end of the movie?

I definitely agree. I've enjoyed this.

Sacrificing yourself for the greater good.

FWIW, depending on what you can consider canonical, this issue has already been dealt with in the TV show.

This is basically my college years rehashed. Spending more time dissecting a movie or comic book mythos than the original writers spent coming up with it.

I watched the series but don't remember that part of it.

While it couldn't physically kill itself, it did make the decision to allow itself to be terminated. This could be seen as progress beyond what Skynet had programmed. In fact it flew in the face of that programming.

Then again, it's more likely that the humans who reprogrammed the T-800 added a little something about screwing over Skynet any chance it got in addition to just protecting John Conner.

Cameron was able to lie and disregard programming based on her own volition. She hid parts of other Ts for example, lied to John about a variety of things, and even after he "fixed" her at the beginning of S2, she still had the terminate order but disregarded it.

What model was she in that? More advanced than the T-800, no? (And hotter)

FWIW, debating this makes me feel like a virgin.

TOK715

But its CPU operates under the same premise.

OK, I remember that now. Thanks.

As far as canon goes I think I would defer to only what the first two movies covered.

That being said though, the series was outstanding and should never have been cancelled.

LOL, yeah, virgin.

Cool.

And yeah, I definitely agree about the series. I can never get enough Terminator shit.

Even if it's a sequel to "Salvation?"

I actually liked Salvation. With a story that focused more on Connor and more future war sequences, a sequel could be badass.

Salvation was pretty good for being the worst Terminator production ever. It had loads of badass shit, it could have been really great with a better script.

And with a better lead. Sam Worthington is Ambien incarnate.

I liked Salvation as well but it should have been more about Connor and less about Worthingtons character.

i dont give a ****, hero or not, in a fight between these two characters t800 wins.

In a dimly lit maze, T would prevail. Flip night vision on and **** Mills. End of story.

Sarah Connor beat a terminator.

She had Kyle Reese explaining everything to her. Mills would die before he got over the WTF phase.

ROFL