Someone review Tyson Jackson and rest of Dline.
 

Len and Mitch said the Dline looked good.

I saw jackson fall on a guy once

T Jackson got an assist on the first series, then displayed his lack of speed during a QB scrample around his side.


The rest of the game consisted of him getting pushed into the middle linebacker, but other then that he did great.

Jackson had the same stat line as Eric Berry minus one tackle.

and that was on special teams

Couldn't tell watching on a slow ass choppy stream that lasted less than a half :(

So then, I should file this under "DOOOOMED?"

Help Wanted: A solid guy around 315-330 that is capable of playing the role of a 3-4 Nose Tackle. Will pay in cash and unlimited cheeseburgers !

That, and took a wrong angle. Went towards the QB instead of going lateral with him.

To be fair, Josh Johnson ran a 4.44 40 at the combine a few years ago. He's not a slow guy. I'm not saying he played well, but it would have been an amazing play if he had caught the QB.:D

He looked better than the first game, where it looked like he was getting pushed around. Saw him make a few swim moves and a few plays actually saw him shed a block and move toward the ball carrier. But still a good chunk of plays where he gets eaten up and even when he makes the right move on a play, he still seems to either just miss on the tackle or get to the play a little late.

At least it's progress. But he's not even close to where he needs to be and who knows if any improvements were due to Tampa's o-line.

Ya, I couldn't believe that he actually got a QB pressure, but the proceeded to take a horrific angle and get blown out of the stadium by the the QB.


Even his flashes turn into flash diarrea. The kid just doesn't have it.

One thing I seemed to notice a LOT last night was that our DLine seems really slow off the snap.. like the ball is snapped and it takes them a second to realize it was snapped before they start moving forward.

Was trying to figure out of thats a 3-4 defensive line thing.. or just freaking slow!

So you're pissed that a 300 pound guy can't catch a 200 pound guy from behind?

Its hard to believe that all the D-Linemen this team has drafted over the past 10 years and they all suck.

No, that he can't figure out an angle to push him to the sideline.


You know, High School fundamentals.

He had an angel. Not the best I agree but the QB was going to gain yards one way or the other. If TJ would have ran sidways the QB would have cut inside. The guy prevented the bootleg which is more than what I can say about our recent defenses.

Your opinion vs. mine. I will leave it at that.

It wasn't Clarence, was it?

meh, touche on being the spelling nazi....:D

he took a shit angle and let the QB get positive yards. no one expects him to catch freeman from behind, except maybe tjax. we do expect basic fundamentals, which he failed to show on that play. there are 10yr olds on my daughters soccer team that pursue better than that. after that play i thought to myself, the drafterbaters are right, this guy sucks.

40 time is somewhat irrevelent if you know how to take a proper angle. Jackson WENT towards him, and got his ass toasted.

Have Jackson shadowed him, or pursuit him at the same direction, not towards him, but parallel towards the sidelines, it would not have been a big gain.

It wasn't Josh Freeman. It was Josh Johnson.

I don't know if this is totally correct, but I think a lot of that is a 3-4 thing. In a 4-3, your instinct is to attack the backfield unless the play is designed otherwise. In a 3-4 at 5-technique, you have to read the play first and decide which gap you're going to attack. I think for the D-line, it's a lot more read and react. I don't know if that's a reason--it's something I noticed too.

Let's start hearing the pathetic apologists on this board start to belch out there usual bullshit in defense of T-Jack...

"A 3-4 DE isn't supposed to make an obvious impact"... "It takes 75 years for a college defensive lineman to fully understand how to play the position in the NFL"... BLAH BLAH BLAH.

99 percent of this board despises him. You act like you are some kind of crusader against the Tyson Jackson movement or something.

Wrong.

T-Jack's game was at this same shitty level last year when several elements of this board were DEFENDING him.

It took him 7 games last year to record a multi tackle game, he was credited with 2 last night. Let the man have his moment.

How dare someone stick up for a player in thier rookie year. The nerve of someone on a Chief board sticking up for a KC player. The problem is, he hasn't appeared to show any growth. He'll never reach the value of his pick, but he's still expected to improve and become a contributer.

FYP

FYP - again.

I think he was surprised by how fast Johnson was on that rollout... really I think the whole defense was. He runs way better than most QB's. Not going to hold that one against him too much. 2nd preseason game, there isn't any gameplanning.

was watching on some choppy internet feed. only thing i could really see was tjax taking a sorry pursuit angle on a QB.

I didn't think it was a good sign when he was the sole starter still playing in the second half. And he still didn't do anything notable against their backups (and the defense was getting run over).

Thought the starting unit as a whole played fairly well, but I'm guessing he still has a ways to go.

Last night, much like last week, was an example of how improved the team is mixed with how much talent they still need to add in 2011. They're talented enough to be competitive this year, I think, but they aren't talented enough to overcome mistakes. I thought they outplayed Tampa Bay in the first half, but the fumble, the sack, and Flowers' screw-up basically handed the Bucs 10 points, and likely cost the Chiefs at least a field goal, and possibly more.

They're going to have to do something about that turnover ratio...

All in all, though, I thought it was an encouraging game.

The worst draft pick in the history of this team.

Little early for that.

Worse than Trezelle Jenkins, Steve Fuller, Ethan Horton, Brian Jozwiak, or Ryan Sims??

Hell, he started a whole season, that already beats Sims.

Yes, simply because he was picked No. 3 overall.

Understood....but at least hes out there starting. I agree that he may never live up to a true #3 pick.

blackledge?

Yea, i didnt list him because he made several starts and had a few "moments", but yea, obviously he was bad as well.

Whatever the issues on the line.. Gilberry needs to be starting, the minute he came into the game... he was around the ball and making plays

T Jack wont be here next year they should just cut their losses. He really hasnt even flashed any greatness at all.

HORRIBLE PICK!!!!!!

:clap: You nailed it.

Uhhh sims was a no 6 pick, sorry not a ton of difference there, sims so far is still hands down the worst pick.

not sure I agree.

Sims was the consensus top player on the board. For a team, like us, in dire need of a defensive tackle, he wasn't a bad pick initially. Its when he became lazy and couldnt stay on the field when he became a bust and it didnt take long. Hold out followed by injury followed by lazy = bust.

Tyson Jackson wasnt projected to go in the top ten in any mock draft till the days leading up to the draft. He wasnt that talented. He should become a good 3-4 end, but he will never be a Suh, Reggie White, Bruce Smith type guy that is worth that high of a pick.

When you reach for a player like that, the pick needs to HIT.

I still contend that the best pick for that draft would have been Brian "toilet brush" Orakpo with Mark Sanchez coming in at a close second...and he is only a close second in my book because of the increased risk involved in taking a player out of college that was so inexperienced.

Orakpo and Hali would have given us a damn good pass rush for a long time and would have made the defenses come along much better than an average 5-tech.

How can a human being be an element?

He absolutely was.

You can find any journeyman 3-4 DE and you would get double the production for about 1/10th the cost.

What's concerning to me is that Romeo Crenell is a hell of a DL coach and Jackson hasn't shown anything with the coaching he's provided.

It's like Weis with Cassel. If TJ can't perform with this guy, then there's no ****ing hope for him.

I still have have hope for Tyson Jackson to become a good player, but he will never live up the billing of the #3 spot.

For what we are paying TJ, we could almost have the two best 5-techniques in the NFL

well when you are ranked 19-25 range and the chiefs take him that high-bad things will happen.

He is not a Block eater he is a Cap space eater.

Its kind of fuzzy as its been a while but I believe that the word was the Packers were targeting him as they felt Raji would not be on the board for them. So he might have been a top10 pick, which speaks mostly to how bad the draft class was for 3-4 ends last year. Not that any of that makes it a good pick.

How did Dorsey look?

i'd be thrilled if he just became 'solid'

Well, Milla was the 5th Element, so I guess you have to throw your head back and shoot light out of your larynx.

FAX

Sims was not the consensus top player. Henderson and Haynesworth were considered very close. The reason the Chiefs chose Sims was because of John Butler, HC at NC. He was aslo close friends with Vermeil and Carl and personally recommended Sims.

Why arent you guys numb to the jackson pick/play yet?

time heals all wounds...except when you're a chiefs fan and the wounds are on top of other wounds etc into infinity...

JFC, we've already gone over this: YES

He was #3 overall in a deep draft and was paid $28 million dollars before he even stepped on the field. He's set the franchise back at least two years, if not more.

****.

Two year set back for a DE??? JFC, he isn't good, but a two year set back for a DE in a 3-4 is a little extreme. Does that make Jamal Charles a 2 year step forward?

IMO our big step back is Cassel.

Um, you clearly don't get it.

If the Chiefs want to compete, they cannot blow the #3 overall pick.

Hence, another 4-12 or 5-11 season on the horizon.

2009 was quite possibly the worst year in franchise history in terms of acquiring personnel. Free agency was grim and the draft, outside of a kicker, was atrocious.

You can't win a championship by blowing off an entire year, especially one in which you pick Top 3 in every round.

IF Tyson Jackson was Richard Seymour part two, this defense would look much differently.

vacuum

You can blow the #3 pick and still compete if you hit on a couple of other ones and do a decent job in free agency. It is just much easier to hit on a top 5 pick than a 4th round one.

For instance if Cassel played up to his contract the Chiefs would be more than competing. The top teams in the league have all missed on some of their first rounders.

This is bullshit.

First off, you're speaking in hypotheticals. The 2009 Chiefs draft was in reality, a pile of steaming dogshit. They grabbed ONE player that made an impact, the last player in the draft. A player that wasn't even necessary because Connor Barth showed as much promise as Succop and Succop had never kicked in the NFL.

Big ****ing IF. If the Chiefs had selected Rey Mauluga, the defense would be much further along. We can play the "IF" game all day. It won't change the past.

Really? Name the misses by current "top teams" like Pittsburgh, the NY Giants, the Patriots, San Diego, Green Bay, etc.

None of those teams were picking in the Top Five in consecutive years, so your statement is even less valid.

I don't think it's bullshit, necessarily.

If Cassel was a kick ass, franchise QB, this would go a long way toward covering the Tyson Jackson wart. Yeah, it would still be tragic to **** up a very important pick, but we could overcome it.

Naturally, you're right because this is all make believe, and this is unfortunate.

This is the point I was trying to make, and I agree with Dane that the 2009 draft was horrible.

Of course I'm speaking in hypotheticals, that is what everyone does when they talk about changing the past picks/signings.

Larry English isn't starting for the Chargers (infact Cason is the only starter they have from their #1 picks from '06-'09)

Evander Hood isn't tearing it up for the Steelers (1st rounder in '09 isn't starting how will they survive?) and how about Limas Sweed? Justin Harrel - Packers

Once again, more silly comparisons.

Neither the Chargers, Packers or Steelers are coming off of 4-12 and 2-14 seasons. Their respective rosters are loaded with talent, not talent depleted.

The Chiefs absolutely need massive production from their 2009 draft, especially from the #3 overall pick. To date, they've gotten extremely minimal production and no signs of that changing.

As far as Ziggy Hood's concerned, I think he'll be a much better 5-tech than TyJack. If you believe Peter King's camp reports, he's been tearing it up and they'll have a difficult time keeping him off the field this upcoming season.

You can blow the third overall pick and be successful? Who is this dumbass?

there were reports of all the teams picking after us taking Tyson if he were available AFTER the draft. Nobody thought he was a logical pick at #3 (or anywhere in the top ten) overall BEFORE the draft.

Sims wasn't a surprise when we took him is what Im saying...Tyson was. Couple that with the fact that Tyson was #3 overall and Sims was #6 and you have quite a bit more expectations for the #3 pick...especially when a franchise quarterback, true #1 receiver, a great nose prospect and franchise pass rusher were readily available at the pick.

Sims had three sacks, a pick, a forced fumble and a recovered fumble to go along with 35 tackles in his second year...right now, if Tyson Jackson hit that stat line for next year even I would be surprised.

You are right.

You asked a question and cited specific teams. I took those teams and listed some 1st round misses over the last 1-4 years. I was silly to pick those teams (that you requested) to show 1st round draft misses.

:shake:

In theory, you can miss on the #3 pick and still survive, although it never helps to sink gobs of money into a guy that doesn't produce. However, what makes it worse for the Chiefs is that they pissed away LOTS of picks in the first three rounds, and lots of them were on the D-Line (TJack, Sims, Tank, Turk, Siavii, arguably Dorsey). When you miss on half or more of your first round picks, then that #3 pick takes on a shitload more importance and urgency. Thank God and all that is holy that the Berry pick is so far, so good.

So, you're proclaiming that Larry English and Ziggy Hood are misses?

Wut.

As I recall, the Chargers elevation came on the heels of several top 5 picks. LT in '01, Jammer (who I'd call a bust) in '02 and Rivers (for Manning at #1) in '04.

The Packers took AJ Hawk at 5 in '06 (after a 4-12 season). They've managed to turn out okay despite that poor decision. Point being, it would obviously help if Jackson turned into something, but the Chiefs can survive it, and survive the way the '09 draft is turning out, but they can't have any more speed bump offseasons like that. It doesn't have to be the end of the world, and '10 is looking like a good start so far.

That's not true; Jared Allen is a beast.

What's your point with San Diego? They got the best RB of the past decade and drafted a franchise QB with their top 5 picks. Add to that they also grabbed a second franchise QB three years earlier.

That seems a far cry from Chiefs' last few top 5 picks, Eric Berry, Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey, only one of whom has a real chance to be an impact player at this stage. We can argue maybe Dorsey would've been better served in the 4-3 as a DT, but lord knows that's a stupid discussion at this point.

My only point with San Diego was that they didn't build their team without top 5 picks. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

The only argument of any kind I'm making is that Jackson's pick last year, should he not develop into anything more than he's shown so far, doesn't have to doom the franchise into oblivion.

Obvlivion? No.

But it does set the franchise back at least two years, which was my original point.

If Tyson Jackson was Richard Seymour Part Two, then teams would be double teaming him consistently, which would give the linebackers and Dorsey a much better chance to limit yardage on the ground and through the air.

In absence of those double teams, most teams can run and throw at will against the Chiefs defense.

Seymour made 0 impact his 1st year.

44 tackles and 3 sacks in 10 starts (13 games) is not what I'd call zero.