Very telling quote from Pioli on Charles' future with the Chiefs
 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...95/3/index.htm


Each season from 2003 to '06, a different back led the Broncos in rushing, and each gained at least 1,000 yards. That established the economic blueprint for managing the position: A team can succeed, sometimes even win the Super Bowl, without a great running back, provided there is ample talent at quarterback and offensive line. Hence management will economize at the position, moving out highly paid, established backs in favor of cheaper up-and-comers or journeymen.

"I am of that mind-set," says Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli, who came over from Bill Belichick's Patriots regime in 2009. "That special guy [Payton, Smith, Dickerson] has always been rare. Generally speaking, you need a good season out of the position. In New England, Antowain Smith was not a great back, but he had a great season [rushing for 1,157 yards in 2001, a Super Bowl--winning year]. Corey Dillon was not a great back, but he had a great season [1,635 yards in 2004, another Super Bowl year]."

It is also a guessing game. Every running back comes stamped with an unknown expiration date. "You don't know how many times they've been hit in high school, hit in college," says Pioli. "Or how well they've taken care of themselves."

Shanahan, who orchestrated the revolving door of rushers at Denver in the early 2000s, says, "There are places on the field where you need a great player. I don't think running back is one of them. I look for overachievers."

Haley will NOT let go of JC.
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I guess McDaniels has that same philisophy at every position.

As much as I like Charles, I agree with this philosophy.

Mr Car Dealer I JIMP everytime I think of owning this truck on your lot

i agree with it, but he wasnt a starter in college was he? He hasnt taken all that many huge hits. He's been hit though, but he's young, its not like he's LJ and was 28 years old already.

I suppose finding a Thomas Jones sort of backs up this theory.

ahahaha

You can only pray that Charles finds his way out of the division.

KnowMo; being a Donko homer is what you're good at. Grasping for straws in hopes that Pioli will go Full-McFistingMyself makes you look rather small and possibly butt-hurt.

Elevate your game, man; get back on track!

I just found something that I figured a Chiefs fan would want to read. I couldn't care less what happens with Charles.

Meh.

At least Charles was a 3rd round pick...

I guess you guys wasted a 12 overall on Knowshon...since I'm sure McDaniels has the same school of thought...right?

I'm wondering if Jamaal will play a McCluster role in the offense this week if McCluster is really out like Nick Wright (lol) says...?

I hope he does...I think he has that skillset.

Chiefs won't break the bank for a running back. Doesn't mean they won't re-sign JC at the right price. The right move considering that I don't think JC is an every down back to begin with.

Next.

Charles probably isn't going to command Adrian Peterson type money as a FA because most teams see him as what the Chiefs are doing with him. A 12-16 carry a game back. I think that Haley is using him about as perfect as you can, and other teams would look at him the same.

So I agree, you resign Charles but only at the right price. Otherwise let him walk.

This.

You should you stupid cock sucker seeing as he schools your D like bitches.You're a real piece of shit you know it?**** you and all of you're lil nut huggers you have here.

Eh, philosophically, I don't have any issue with it. However, he needs to consider all of the other factors to make sure it's the right decision (and I'm sure he will). The article is overly simplistic.

Its like telling a girl before you start to date: " I am a heavy drinker, irresponsible, have bad hygiene, we will only go on dates to Whataburger, and I will live with you for 10 years but don't expect a ring. Oh, and it will be an open relationships, so expect other woman to come around."

These negotiations with Charles should be interesting.

After LJ, I'm not sure that anyone is going to cry if we don't sign an RB to a huge contract.

A good RB deserves 2 contracts. After that, sign for peanuts or hit the road.

"I was talking to [Kansas City GM] Scott Pioli about Berry, and I said, 'Scott, this guy's your pick.' And he said, 'You know how I feel about safeties that early.' And I understand.'' - Thomas Dimitroff

If you read the whole article and take the statement for what it is in it's context, it's not telling at all concerning JC.

First off he doesn't make any statement other than you need a good season out of the position but you don't have to have a great player to have a great season at RB.

The statement about $ and economy at the RB position was not made by Pioli but by the author.

lol did he really say Corey Dillon was NOT a great back?


are you ****ing high Pioli?

I think he looks at HOF players as great. Look who he mentions as great backs.

I agree, Dillion was not a great back. Pretty good, not great.

To me, Dillon was the beginning of the end to the Patriot Way. But not because of his abilities. That was about the time the Patriots stopped caring about character and became more interested in forcing players to fill roster holes rather than drafting/picking up role players.

I really hope they get most of these guys re-signed over the next couple of years. The reason IMHO that the "Patriot Way" works is good drafting and having a pipeline of players waiting to step up. The talent level of the Chiefs when they 1st got here was horrendous and I think it'll be a couple more years of good drafts before the Chiefs get the back-up/players in waiting level up to where they can be tougher on negotiating with the vets. This year they filled alot of starting talent "holes" but they are still a couple of injuries away from being bad instead of not as good.

Rod woodson on NFL Network was asked the question which coach is most on the hot seat between Singletary(49ers) and McDaniels(Donkeys). He chuckled and said , "I've never seen a coach completely dismantle a team in a two year period like Josh McDaniels. He got rid of Cutler for some reason. He cut his best receiver cause of attitude, he cut one of the best TE's in the league because of attitude. He fired a DC that took a Defense from dead last to top ten just because of a conflict in personality. It's just amazing how one Head Coach can thoroughly destroy a team that had developed chemistry in such a short time. His days are numbered"

Antowain Smith = TJ
Kevin Faulk = Charles

I don't see why either one would be leaving unless we wanted them to...

Rushing yards per game:

Chiefs 176

Donkeys 68

How many times has giving a RB a 2nd big money contract worked out for a team? It's rare.

Too big a gamble. I like charles also but historically its a bad move to give a RB their 2nd contract in the NFL.

Agreed....The top athletes in high school and college usually want to play RB. So their is an abundance of talent at RB. There are back up RB's at Texas, Florida, USC and the such that are talented enough to be productive NFL starting backs on a good team with a solid Oline. And then throw in the fact that RB's take far more hits than anyone else on the field so their shelf life is very short. Wise to spend that money on the Oline that can play much longer and have the ability to make a lot of RB's look very good.

Although it's true that running backs have a limited shelf life, I think Charles will be here for awhile. They've used him smartly (my only criticism being that it's difficult to get in the game's "flow" when you're part of a committee) and he seems happy to be a part of this deal.

It's been said a lot (and I've said it too many times), but here we go again ... one of the differences between this regime and past FO knuckleheads is a legitimate commitment to develop our own guys. You don't develop your own guys to the point they are solid, dependable, consistent contributors, then let them walk over the same (or slightly higher) money it would require to replace them.

Much depends on the draft, however. As we've seen, a good draft can change a lot of things in a hurry if you're willing to put the young guys on the field ... and Haley seems to be willing.

FAX

Very telling quote from McDaniels on Tebows' future with the Broncos
 

Very telling quote from McDaniels on Tebows' future with the Broncos:

"Well when you make a dumbass draft pick like Tebow, you have to keep him a few years. If you are lucky, he might show some sign of not completely sucking and I won't look like as much of an ass. Also, we suck."

Cutler helps opponents more than he helps his own team and he whined his way out of town, Scheffler can't/won't block, and Marshall had to go. The defense has had its best players on the shelf for a fair portion of the season.

Woodson should have tried for some actual analysis.

One little problem....

His offensive line SUCKED last year and LJ did jack shit behind it. When you can take it to the house on any given play, it's not just your offensive line. I agree that averaging 5 or 6 yards per carry can be due to the line but few have the ability to break one to the end zone like Charles can.

OK. KnowMo.

I can't disagree with any of this but reality is what it is. You have limited funds and late 20's-early 30's NFL RB's are either making killer money or they need to be replaced.

Hey, I've got no problem with taking people to task. I've just got a problem with doing it stupidly, which is what Woodson did.

Well, it's true that it always comes down to money and what the market will bear, Mr. BigRedChief. That's true. Every time an NFL player takes the field, he's auditioning.

But, the larger portion of my pea brain is leaning toward thinking that, when you are fully committed to the whole "developing your own guys" concept, you're not only trying to get guys to do what they're told and do it at a high level, you're also trying to get them to "buy in" to your program and your system.

This means that, when you add opportunity cost to the equation and consider the amount of time it takes to replace an existing player with a new guy and assimilate him into the organization, you can't help but want to keep the guys you have and avoid losing them to FA ... ideally, that is.

FAX

they wouldn't be rotating guys in and out if they weren't trying to keep them around.

Charles didn't have many carries until last year and i imagine they want to keep him around for awhile. When they start burning him in the ground with tons of carries then we will know they don't plan on keeping him.

ROFL:clap: Damned fine point.

Flopnuts beat me toit, but it's worth repeating - If the Chiefs didn't learn anything from the whole break the bank for LJ fiasco, they don't deserve to ever win shit.


Close this thread.

3 things:

1. Pioli didn't draft Charles - carl did.

2. McCluster is the exact same type of tailback with a nearly identical skillset.

3. Your owner is at the bottom in spending and has been for several years.

Put those things together and it's quite obvious.

On the flipside, the Patriots have kept Kevin Faulk for a decade and a half now. So it's not like they haven't been loyal to guys.

But when we go to the 18 game schedule, you're going to see more of this and the RB position is going to become even more watered down. Even for guys like Charles. Everybody's going to be playing 2 or 3 different backs to keep guys from having 450-500 carries a year, I would think.

I would rather spend the money on Brandon Flowers

Charles won't be eligible for Free Agency until after the 2014 season, so I don't even understand why this is even being discussed.

1. doesn't mean pioli doesn't recognize talent.

2. DMC is not the exact same tailback... charles is closer to a traditional RB, and has roughly 40 pounds on DMC.

3. that is because we cleaned most of the veteran dead weight off the roster, replacing with younger (and yes cheaper) talent.

the only thing that's obvious is the rest of the afc west is afraid of JC and want him out of the division...

because knowmo is a dumbass, who is hoping and praying the chiefs let charles walk so he doesn't have to worry about 250+ days anymore. can't wait for the chiefs to get into the divisional play to shut these chokeland and dungver fans up. at least charger fans are smart enough to realize their team is done.

Cutler can be coached up. He looked good under Shanahan, didn't he? Right now, he is with the worst possible OC for him. Martz has very little respect for the football.

Scheffler is a good receiving TE.... you need all types on a team. Didn't have to start, but could have contributed.

Marshall had to go? He wouldn't have had to go if Shanny was still there.

Every team has injuries. Letting go of a guy who completely turned around the defense last year was stupid.... but not unexpected.

Woodson's point still stands.... McD is on the hot seat.

KnowShit was an accompliance to Phobia during the great rep heist. WOW CP has lost its burst LMAO

This is simple...if he doesn't sign for a workable contract, place the franchise tag on him and trade him (if any new CBA has such tags). At that point, you can at least get something for him instead of just letting him walk.

He's a RFA after this season so if another team makes him an offer the Chiefs have a chance to match it. If the Chiefs don't you will get a 3rd round pick.

Bullshit.

Seriously, Dude, you know ANYTHING about the NFL?

The CBA expired last year. Players aren't eligible for Restricted Free Agency until they've had 5 YEARS service in the league and 6 YEARS for Unrestricted Free Agency.

Charles won't be an RFA until AFTER the 2013 season.

PLUS, the Chiefs could easily (and most likely WILL) put a first round tender on Charles.

I would be extremely dissapointed if we let charles go.

Extremely.

Uhh dude you are wrong. A player is available for RFA after three seasons seasons in the league.

Pioli, you damned well better have our team's payroll at least somewhere near the salary cap before you even think of letting Charles go. Our team needs to collect more talent, not say goodbye to what it already has.

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2010/01...-cba-rules-be/

If you are going to be stupid about a subject, at least make it a subject that I can't prove your stupidity with a one minute google search.

ya, he's good, he's damn good, but we need to learn our lesson on paying high priced RBs. It's not a position of longevity. Plus, running backs are a dime a dozen. I would rather us throw our money at Flowers

We aren't anywhere near the salary cap. In fact this team struggles to stay above the league's salary floor. There is no reason we can't have both, plus a bunch of other really good players.

There IS no salary cap.

Does anyone in this forum know the rules?

I'd assume thats the case. It's a lot harder to find a good CB. You find him, you keep and pay him. If you can also keep the RB? :clap:

Since there is no more salary floor I wonder how cheap Pioli thinks he can operate at?

From your link.

RFA in an uncapped year is determined by the length of contract the player has signed. UFA is after six years in an uncapped year. You stated that the Chiefs would receive a third round pick as compensation if another team signed Charles. The Chiefs can determine what draft pick compensation they can receive by the amout of their tender offer to Charles.

Next year won't be an uncapped year. Who knows how the new CBA will work out. All I know is the uncapped year saved Denver's ass because Denver got extra tenders to use on their UFA's.

And Denver slapped a 1st round tender on Brandon Marshall this offseason and they didn't get it.

Okay, vagina boy, there isn't one this year. There was one last year and we were a long, long way from it. When we have a new one next year we'll still be nowhere near it.

Your first two sentences contradict each other.

Denver didn't get a first round pick for Marshall because they decided to work out a deal with Miami for less compensation.

I dont wanna be a dick here, but have you been hiding under a rock?

The players will vote to decertify the Union. That means they will play under the current CBA. It could be several yrs before a new CBA is in place. So, if this yr is uncapped, why would next yr be capped if there is no new CBA?

Bullshit.

Dude, you are truly clueless.

I don't think it's a bad strategy to have. It's one of the shortest-lived positions in the league. RBs take a beating like nobody else.

The answer is so simple, it's astonishing. Franchise him. One year deal. We can keep him or deal him, or maybe he can deal himself and get us a first and third. Who else would we franchise?

I have to agree with Dane - it's hard to even discuss this given that we don't know what the situation will be when it becomes an issue.

The owners are not going to allow this scenerio to unfold. There wil be a cap or no football.

That's not what I'm hearing.

Most of the players in the NFL have voted to decertify, which is what happened in 1988. Once that happens, IF the owners choose to lockout the players, each NFL player can sue the NFL and its owners for as much as they'd like. The NFL would be tied up for years in court and would lose billions and billions of dollars.

The most likely scenario is that there is no CBA, the players decertify and continue to play under the 2010 rules.

If that happens, it will be devastating for football. Both sides need to see this. There is a significant percentage of fans that never returned to watch baseball after the last strike. Present company included.

Here's what we do know:

1. If there is no salary cap, there is no excuse for not signing Charles.
2. If there is a salary cap, we will be nowhere near it.

Just not seeing any scenario, short the Chiefs adding a bunch of high-priced free agents, that we would not have room for an extremely talented, game-changing RB. People like to sit back and stroke their beards and act all wise saying things like, "well, running backs are not as valuable as shutdown corners", etc. It's like we're talking about some crappy small-market baseball team with no ambition of actually winning anything, so we gotta pick and choose. We don't.

It's NOT going to happen. The NFL would be opening itself up to lose billions and billions of dollars and the owners won't let that happen.

As I stated earlier, the NFL played without a CBA from 1988-1993 and the league was fine. With so many issues on the table, it could be years before they have a new CBA in place.