Who is the biggest goat?
 

This should be fun.

In my opinion Bowe and Flowers are more to blame than Cassel. I'd rank the blame game this way:

Flowers
Bowe
Cassel

By the way, I almost added Mr Flopnuts to this poll, because he ****ed with our juju.

Play calling?

Flowers. And yeah, I agree with you all the way down that list. Cassel was what I expected him to be, the other two weren't. Cassel actually exceeded my expectations today. Keep in mind, I don't expect much.

Shouldn't special teams be an option they essentially caused a 17 point swing.

Has to be Bowe. Has a ball hit him in a perfect spot and it goes right through his hands. He catches that ball, game is over.

Yeah no shit there.

How about Brian Waters?

Seymour made Waters his bitch throughout the game.

Special Teams

I agree with special teams, but I refuse to absolve Flowers of a terrible lack of judgment at the end of regulation.

Seconded

Do people really think Cassel should be in the running for this? He wasn't Peyton Manning, but I didn't think he played at a goat level at all. If Bowe could catch easy passes, he would've been close to 300 yards with 3 TDs and 1 Int. Cassel wasn't the problem today.

In terms of units, the special teams was the big problem today. They gave up a TD and gave back a field goal. As much as I like the guy, I'd put Studebaker as the goat today.

Twice, actually. There was a third down pass early in the game that went directly between his arms. It was almost harder to not catch it than to catch it.

He wasn't THE problem but when you fail to get a first down from your 10-yard line, you choked.

Special teams or coaching.

Only one of these three had an opportunity to make a relatively routine play that 90% of players in their position make every time.

Bowe fo sho

I understand it's your sole agenda. But you might want to take off the rose colored hate glasses and look at the whole picture for a change.

You guys are basing this off past performances. All Flowers has to do is knock that pass down rather than try to pad his stats. Game over. It's easier to knock a pass down than it is to catch one. Why do you think they play defense?

How about Weis for denying Charles carries?

I'll always blame Cassel. He's the QB. When the running game isnt working, he needs to make plays.

Waters was rented all day long. It was painful to watch.

Bingo.

As for special teams and Waters... look, those guys sucked. But the fact is the Chiefs were in a position to win despite those problems. I don't care as much about plays we don't make early in the game. I care about plays we're supposed to make when we're in a position to win late in the game.

Lots of people to blame, but ultimately it all comes back to Cassel. A real QB knows how to win a game like this one.

I picked Flowers.

But to act like Cassel didn't gag a little...

Flowers gave up big plays
Special teams sucked badly
Bowe dropped a couple easy catches in situations where he could have sealed the game.
But Cassel's dogshit play kept us completely out of the ****ing game from halfway through the second quarter on.

Had Flowers knocked that pass down there still would have been time left in the game. It is not like it was a hail mary or something.

I agree in hindsight knock the damn thing down but with however many seconds were left (30ish??????) I understand why he tried to pick it.

Just my line of thinking but given that Bowe's catch would have been much easier to make than Flower's interception, not to mention Bowe's job is to catch the damn ball

I voted Cassel. Not because I really think it was his fault, but just because I hate him.

And many a real qbs have lost games like this one. Whats your point?

If it was 4th down, then yes, knock it down. Not on 2nd or 3rd, you make a play. Bowe makes his catch, the Flowers play doesnt happen.

holding a CB responsible over a QB who threw an int in the endzone?

the defense played a hell of a lot better than the offense, and if the offense had done it's job in the first half while the defense was dominating, the game would never have been in question...

and special teams were more responsible than flowers....and it isn't even close

The defense gave up 250 yards in the second half and overtime.

He did what he does every game. Makes a few throws, makes a few bonehead plays. Nothing new really to bitch about to be honest. I can't vote on any. If you really want to vote. Put coaching up there. We looked lost and confused most of the 2nd and 3rd qtrs.

What's your point?

I really don't understand why you insist on defending Cassel every week. He's awful. Absolutely awful. He's the main problem with this team, and it's not even close. Every game has its goats, but Cassel is more than a goat. He's a ****ing terminal illness.

Agreed.

Gif I want Cassel replaced too but your hatred of him sometimes make you like a complete ****tard. Today Cassel played well and was never a reason why we lost this game. The fact is, he was clutch when it mattered in regulation and all Bowe has to do is catch a very well thrown ball to end the game for the W and he couldn't.

Matt played well enough for us to win this game.

Special teams.

Berry's holding call took a TD return off the board.

Studebaker's holding call took a FG off the board

Nobody touches the returner on the opening kickoff of second half, giving up a TD.

Not fielding the football cleanly for the possesion in OT has us starting inside the 20 yard line, where Weiss is happy to call us an epic 3 and out series.

I agree with that.

But still, when push came to shove, he didn't come through in OT.

To me, that is choking.

so what?

special teams gave up the first td


our defense gave our offense every god damn chance to do their ****ing jobs, only to watch our offense shit it's pants on 3rd down over and over and over

Exactly I think Flowers played like shit but the idea that he should have just slapped it out of the air when he clearly was in the position to make a pick and end the game is stupid.

Pretty sure the play call didnt have 2 receivers within 5ft of each other. Someone ran the wrong route, but since I wasnt in the huddle, how would I know what was called.

This has got to be in the running for the stupidest thing you've ever posted.

No one has an agenda. Cassel is not consistent enough. Thats not conjecture, its fact.

I watched the Browns today. McCoy looked better in that game than Cassel has EVER looked as a Chief.

Cassel made some nice throws today. I can't imagine anyone arguing otherwise. Similarly, I cannot imagine anyone not acknowledging that he had a major hand in the loss, with his duck at the end of the first (when we were in prime position to get at least 3 points) and breakdown in OT and at the end of regulation when he had two impressive overthrows on the three and out prior to the Bowe drop.

He's not good enough, but this isn't anything new.

I actually was hoping to look at that last offensive play in OT. Was there a receiver he should have hit? On second down, it didn't look like his options were very good. I can't remember what happened on third down.

Moeaki dropping the 3rd and 1 pass.

Haley for not going for it on 4th and 1.

Studebaker for getting called for the hold.

Berry called for a hold that nullifies a TD return.

On five consecutive plays in the red zone, Cassel throws three straight incompletions, takes a sack, and throws an interception.

On the opening kickoff of the second half we blow coverage and allow a TD.

Arenas fumbles the kickoff.

That is less than 1 quarter of clock time. We screwed up winning plays all day long. Team loss.

So what would you call it?

Imagine if we go back to last week, and after Cassel's first overtime abortion the Bills hit a bomb and kick a FG.

That would be a choke job.

And that's ****ing pathetic.

It's in the GIF'D UP thread.

The third down play is in question as to whether Bowe was open.

Yep. I want SO bad to like Matt.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

He made a few good throws, but a few good throws does not a win make. Especially when all the other throws are big shitty pieces of shit-covered shit.

He appears to have absolutely no philosophy as it relates to fourth down, which is disconcerting.

And it looked as if bowe was wide freaking open in ot on 3rd down. That ot throw was a panic throw. Dammit Matty light.

I usually agree with you on Cassel, but you make it sound like every quarterback leads his team into field goal range every possession of OT.

I blame the playcalling for being so pussy. Cassel probably wouldn't have been able to make the throws, but we will never know.

I think it's just an all poor effort on the team.

Bowe missed some obvious catches

Cassell overthrew and made stupid decisions.

Special Teams gave up a TD and colquitt with his less than stellar punts.

OLine allowed 2 sacks on Cassell when they only allowed 3 in all previous games.

Defense missed some INT's, blown coverage and outright stupid mistakes.

All aspects of the team had too many penalties.

Picking ONE goat? I cannot do.

I don't agree. There's a LB spying Cassel. He drifts to the left because Cassel is looking right.

If Cassel looks toward Bowe, I think that's possibly a pick 6.

I think it was a block in the back penalty, and I hope that gif horse can show us a gif of that play because I really don't think that was a block in the back.

I second that

Yes. It is so vexing. How the **** does he throw a nice bullet to Bowe for the TD, and then completely shit himself other times?

Other than the bad INT in the end-zone at the end of the first half, Cassel played well enough for the Chiefs to win.

This team is supposed to be led by a strong running game and mistake free football. The Chiefs struggled to run the ball all day, and were plagued by mistakes (penalties and horrific special teams play) throughout the game.

Not looking for FG range.

But a couple of first downs from that point on the field are huge.

I was excited when we won the coin toss. I thought "hey! maybe Cassel will continue to be clutch and we'll get the hell out of this dungeon with a win."

Two plays later.

http://www.relationship101s.com/wp-c...mages/fuuu.jpg

For a grand total of 16 points. And when you throw in the points the gave up in the first half, it's still 16 points.

That sequence in the 2nd quarter was potentially 21 points. And we got zero. ZERO! That is where we lost the game.

Because he lacks the instincts and field awareness to be a high-quality QB, IMO, and these cannot be learned in the NFL. They're learned in college, where Cassel never played.

As milkman and others have said, when Cassel throws with conviction, the results are generally pretty good. Too often, however, he doesn't play with this level of confidence.

This. Why cant people understand this.

Its obvious he DID NOT play well enough to win.

Bowe, as if he catches the catchable ball, we win the game.

...

Sidenote: I always think of GOAT as greatest of all time...how did it come about that goat of a game is the person most responsible for the loss?

Why? Oh yeah...

Cassel did enough for the Chiefs to win the game. And in the moment when they needed him most, he threw a catchable ball to Bowe that Bowe dropped.

Then Flowers misses a play that was also a great effort on the WR.

Then Cassel had a shitty OT (though, I think some of that could fall on the receivers, as it didn't look like anyone was open).

They all should have made plays. But if you're prioritizing blame, you have to start from the one play that would have prevented all of that from happening. You could argue all day long about if the Chiefs don't give up that special teams TD, maybe the Chiefs still give up 20 points. But there's really no argument that if Bowe catches that ball, then the Chiefs get a new set of downs at the 2 minute warning and take three knees to win the game.

Cassel makes two or three good throws all game and that's considered "well enough"? Talk about low standards. Jesus.

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, but to pretend that Cassel playing a good game (not some mythical "good enough" game) wouldn't radically change the outcome is ludicrous.

He played well enough to win in a game where everyone else did their job.

Unfortunately, the running game blew, special teams blew, and defense choked at the end.

Cassel can't overcome the mistakes of others.

And I don't expect him to. I'd be happy if he was a cog in the machine like Trent Green was.

Cassel did not lose this game today!

Bowe makes that catch & it's game over......

I blame that partially on playcalling. However I will give you this, why on earth would Cassel try to throw that ball to Pope, I would rather him try and scramble or even stand around and shit his pants.

There is no way Pope gets that first down even if he catches that and Cassel should realize that.

Cassel did not lose this game today!

Bowe makes that catch & it's game over......

This right here. Team loss period. There is plenty of blame to go around. Very few get a pass on the loss. IMHO no individual was more responsible than anyone else. The team flat out sucked from the moment the ball left Succops foot to start the second half.

As far as the red zone pick goes thats on Moeaki. I don't think he was where he was supposed to be. Bowe was open and that pass looked to me like it was intended for Bowe. Cassel was plenty pissed about as well.

I disagree. You have to start with the overall performance of your quarterback. If Cassel knows how to make throws and make them consistently, if he knows how to sustain drives more often than kill them, then the whole complexion of the game changes. It's a little more abstract of an approach, but I think pretending like each play exists in a vacuum is silly. It's not about one play going one way or the other; it's about one player, the supposed leader of the team, putting together a complete game. Everything branches out from there.

So today he was the cog in the machine that didn't fit? or all of the other cogs were broke and he couldn't overcome it?

All of the other cogs were slightly off.

But there were at least 10 other plays that could have been made that would have been "game over". That wasn't even the last one. To single out Bowe is just arbitrary.

If Bowe makes that catch, nothing else matters. LMAO.

Such a stupid game to play. Let's see:

1. If Studebaker doesn't hold, the Bowe drop doesn't matter.
2. If Cassel doesn't wet himself and throw off his back foot at the end of the first half, it's likely that the Bowe drop wouldn't have mattered.
3. And about 5 more "ifs."

.

Cassel didnt do much to help win, though, did he?

Chiefs fans have gone so long without a good QB, its hard to tell when one is playing up to a level to win.

But Bowe's catch would have ended the game at that moment. I am not talking about a play in the first half that would have given us points then, the game would have adjusted to those.

We're talking about it because it was one of the last ones. And then when people mention the Flowers failed INT, people say, "But if Bowe had caught that ball!!!"

Can't have it both ways.

...you talking about the ball the Moeaki tipped?..from the EZ replay, that ball looked like it was intended for Bowe, or was coming right for him.