Book Review: War Room - The Legacy of Bill Belichick/Art of Building Perfect Team
 

I know some of you are really interested in hearing more about this book, and I promised to read it and report - so here goes. I decided I'd post as I read, instead of making you wait for the whole thing.

First post? A few quotes from Chapters 1 and 2, which focus on the Browns era, how the relationship between BB/Pioli/Dimitroff started and grew, and the move to NE through the 1st SB season.

Nothing earth shattering yet, but this is what stood out to me.


I'm going to paraphrase the beginning because it's long in the book.


Referencing Belichick, minutes after beating the Rams in the SB:


More later tonight if I have the time.

Skip forward to the part where you fall ass over tea kettle into one of the best QBs in history in the sixth round and then videotape practices of your opponents so that you know exactly what they're going to do at all times.

"ass over tea kettle"

lmao. Haven't heard that one in a while. My dad used to say that all the time.

Keep'em coming.

where is Mecca to defend Pete Carrol?

Yeah, Holley skips over that. He discussed it at length in Patriot Reign.

Then again, I'm three chapters into this book, and a lot of it is stories from Patriot Reign, just regurgitated.

Pretty disappointing thus far, but I've read just about every book on BB there is, so a lot of this is going to overlap.

It's bound to be a bit dry. I don't suspect there are too many chapters about killing midget hookers or hooking killer midgets.

I didn't realize it was out already. Awesome. I'm gonna get it soon.

Interesting couple of chapters, one on the offseason that lead to "completely changing the offense" by bringing in Moss and one on the undefeated season.

Really nothing worth quoting though.

This is a great thread idea.

I can't wait for the part where Bill throws the cheerleader party and dives naked into the pool.

FAX

Could you sum it up by saying, "Our receivers in the AFCC game were Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell, and we realized that we'd done ****ed up"?

The quotes are great.

FAX

I'll only do this once so I don't ruin the thread, 3 tidbits:

1. KC had Aldon Smith in the top 3 of their draft board.
2. KC tried to move up and take Mike Pouncey but couldn't come to terms with Miami to move up.
3. KC was trying to move up to grab Stanzi and were very happy when he fell to them.

Chapter 1:

Bring a Camera.

Finished the book, and was pretty disappointed.

I highlighted a few things, the best of which NJ just posted about.

Patriot Reign was a much better book.

Like or dislike Pioli and how he is trying to build a franchise? Apparently you admire Bellicheck or wouldnt read the books. How close does Pioli follow the lead in making player decisions? And is Pioli making the same type of moves? Obviously different situations. any similarities? Probably should get the books to make my own point of view.

Thanks

If you could make all the updates in the OP that would be great and easier for us to fish out. That is if you plan on adding more.

This gives me hope that Stanzi will be given a shot.

So maybe not a buy, but a rent from the library?

So, I've read the first 100 pages or so of this book and I think I can safely conclude Josh McDaniels will not coach here.

Pioli and Belichick were completely willing to argue about their players. My understanding is that they were both very independent. However, if they flat-out disagree on a player, they agreed not to draft them. Evidently this arrangement went by the wayside in the 2006 draft as both Maroney and Jackson had major question marks from the scouting side. However, McDaniels swayed Belichick into drafting them despite reservations by Pioli and the scouts. The scouts were miffed that Belichick would throw away their work for the opinion of the offensive coordinator.

Both of them were absolute busts weren't they?

Hehe. Josh McDaniels sucks at player evaluation. that is all.

Yeah just looked it up. Maroney is a free agent and Chad Jackson is playing Arena Football... :facepalm: But this also proves that Pioli knows exactly what he's doing on Draft day.

Trust In Pioli.

I skimmed it pretty quickly last night.

Some things that stood out in my mind:

1. When Pioli interviewed with KC he thought the entire organization was a huge mess. He didn't understand why people/management in KC thought the team was successful in the 90's when they hadn't won anything and had so few playoff victories.

2. Pioli and McDaniels really liked Cassel in New England. He took way too many sacks but (according to them) he was a really fast learner, wouldn't continue to make the same mistakes and they didn't have to tweak the system much once Brady went down.

3. First draft with Herm's leftovers - scouts were very relaxed and laid back. In scout meetings they would be answering emails, watching youtube, etc. Pioli couldn't believe their overall attitude. Only 2 scouts survived from that era.

4. Pioli tends to get hung up on what I would consider stupid things. Book mentioned how under Carl the team would make color copies of things and Pioli put an immediate end to it in order to save 1,000s of dollars in copying costs.

5. Baltimore v. KC playoffs. Felt the team started the game really well and was moving the ball well before the fumbles by Dex and Charles. Mentioned WRs not being able to get separation. And most important - THE CRITICAL 4th DOWN pitch back was Weis' call. Haley said he had major 2nd thoughts about it, almost called a timeout to go over the play, but Weis thought the Ravens would go all out inside and Charles could not only get the first down on the outside, but had a good chance to break it for a TD.

6. After the playoff loss to the Ravens, Pioli said the team had a long, long way to go before it could be good. He wasn't content.

7. In my quick skimming of the book, I didn't see much discussion about the interactions between Pioli and Haley.

Wasn't a fan of hiring Pioli, but I do like the team building philosophy he brings to the organization, even as I haven't liked some of the decisions he's made in the draft, and most importantly in the biggest move he's made.

But I do like his attitude about those 90s Chiefs.

That's exactly how I've always felt about those Chiefs.

He's right about the adjustments they had ot make for Cassel

The problem is, though, that the problem, as I see it, is the tweaking they did have to do involved eliminating many of the snaps under center, which is really kinda important to overall success at QB in the NFL.

And Cassel isn't nearly the fast learner he thought he was, because he's still trying to learn some of the basic concepts of QB play.

is there any sense, from the book, about how they'll deal with the QB position moving forward?


they have to know Cassel is the weak link...they have to

None. Seem content with Cassel.

Although they recognized it's a pass league now which is why they took Stanzi. Main scout, Emery, felt Stanzi was the player the league would look back on in a few years and say "how did this guy fall in the draft?"

In other words, they are banking on finding the next Tom Brady.

yeah, sounds like it


if cassel is starting next year, this franchise is a joke and pioli is a fraud

Great stuff!

More info in this thread than in two years of kc reporting

Not a lot of talk about Cassel. 90% of the time Cassel was mentioned it was in relation to his first year starting in New England. The other 10% was how Pioli immediately went after him and maybe a brief mention about the Ravens playoff game. No discussion about his progress or regression in KC.

I get that.

I am just commenting on the Stanzi comment.

The only way that teams will ever look back and wonder how they let Stanzi slip is for Stanzi to get on the field.

That suggests that the backup plan in case they are wrong about Cassel is Stanzi.

heh, i thought the same thing about that qoute.

Whats frustrating about Cassel is his play is "just good enough" to not ever be pulled or benched.

only for a team afraid of risk....if there was a bottom line that winning a title was the standard, then Cassel would not be coddled this way...


the whole world knows that Cassel is a mediocre piece of crap...

NJ covered most of the stuff I highlighted. Here's a few extra:

Thank the Eagles for Powe, KC was ready to take Chris Kelce with that pick. Thought he was the next Dan Koppen.

Haley used to push Fitz so hard in Arizona that Larry would playfully offer Haley a handful of hundred dollar bills before team meetings so Haley wouldn't show his mistakes in front of teammates.

Was in agreement with the move Dimitroff make to move up for Julio Jones. Dimitroff called BB and Pioli to talk about it. BB said he wouldn't do it, Pioli said he would. Called him after the pick and said, "I'm sitting here with Clark, and we both say that took some big ones. Congrats."

Dimitroff started thinking about moving up for Jones in October.

Julio Jones wanted to skip lunch on his visit to KC so he and Haley could go to Haley's house to play ping-pong so they could see who was better.

Chiefs really liked Mark Ingram.

After the playoff game, Pioli says, "We're just not good enough. At the end of the year, when we couldn't sneak up on teams and we played good teams, we felt it. What do we need? There aren't many positions we can look at and say we don't need the help there. We've got holes today, but we also have holes that are a year away. I've seen a great roster. We are so far away from a great roster. So far away."

Obvious tension between Haley and Weis, though few people are aware of the depths of it. Holley doesn't elaborate other than to say they see the offense differently.

The Patriots were planning on taking Steven Jackson in the 1st round of the 2004 draft, until Wilfork unexpectedly dropped to them.



That's pretty much it.

Overall, it seemed like of the three teams, the Chiefs gave less access, or maybe just weren't as forthcoming with Holley. Maybe Holley just didn't ask the right questions. But it seems Holley gets a lot more out of Dimitroff than he does Pioli, and honestly, I think a Falcons fan will get more from this book. There's some new Patriots info, but a lot of it is just regurgitated from his access during Patriot Reign.

i'm surprised pioli was hypothetically willing to make the jones trade...

It's easy to play with someone else's money.

For the most part, I like all that was said.

Nice thread.

FAX

I'd change that to if Cassel is finishing 2012 then this is true. Even if we draft a QB #1 he may need to sit a few games before he starts. Now what I really hope happens is Cassel gets dinged and we start Stanzi for a few games and see what we have first. Cassel makes an excellent backup.

Hope all you want. Palko is the #2 QB. We couldn't have a more fitting #1 and #2.

Cassel is a mystery, to be sure.

Just sounds like a guy who kisses enough ass to convince coaches he can do the job.

As for Stanzi ... I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to think positively about that pick.

FAX

it's depressing, because I think injury is the only way Cassel isn't our QB next year...

i just can't figure out why they tolerate his play...anyone can look at the good QBs in this league and see that Cassel is a piece of shit...Haley coached Warner for **** sake, he knows....he knows

That story was retracted. Sorry.

I'd agree with this if Pioli and Dimitroff weren't good friends. Since they are, I don't think Pioli would lie to Dimitroff.
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Jackson was a complete bust.

Maroney sucked, but wasn't a COMPLETE bust. He at least saw the playing field some etc. But yeah, both were very bad picks relative to where they were taken.

Maybe he thinks he would do it but I haven't seen any evidence that Pioli would actually make a move like that (not sure I would want him to, either, unless it was for a QB).

Given the drafting conducted by the patriots in 2010 and 2011, would you say Pioli was the brain, Belichick was the brain, or they were both the brain?

I'd say both.

The Pats had, generally, good to great drafts from 2001-05. '06-'08 were by and large very bad. Partly because some of those draft classes were weak, but partly because the Pats made very poor picks.

Lately they have been better.

What is STUNNINGLY clear is that the Patriots, both before/after Pioli, can't seem to figure out what a good DB prospect looks like. We have invested a MOUNTAIN of high picks and many of them are gone now, as complete busts. It's horrible.

I wonder what the Pats' drafts would look like if they actually used some of those high picks instead of constantly trading back?

In some cases the trade backs were disastrous. In others they paid off handsomely.

But remember -- when they trade back they get extra picks, which they then use, sooner or later.

When the Patriots traded their #1 away to the Ravens in 2003 they got the Ravens #2, and a #1 the next year.

The #2 was Eugene Wilson, who was a pretty solid safety for us for a few years. the #1 turned out to be some stiff named Vince Wilfork.

All in all, very nice.

Other years, we traded back so Green Bay could get Clay Matthews, and we get, among others, Darius Butler. DOH!

You do pick up some solid players, but at the end of the day, defense today needs playmakers in the second and third level, and the Patriots don't have that now, and haven't for a number of years.

Your best chance to pick up those playmakers come in the first round.

It's not for lack of effort. Brandon Meriweather was a 1st round pick at Safety. Gone.

Darius Butler was a high 2nd. Bust.

Devin McCourty was a 1st. Great last year, not so great this year.

Leigh Bodden (free agent) was very solid for us in 2009. Lost last year to injury. This year, suddenly, BUST. Cut.

In addition to those guys, since 2003:

Wilhite (4th)
Wheatley (2nd)
Ras-I Dowling (first pick in 2nd round)
Pat Chung (second pick in 2dn round)
Ellis Hobbs (3rd)
Guss Scott (3rd)
Asante Samuel (4th)

So it's not lack of investment. It's poor choices.

Last year, didn't they have like 6 picks in the first two rounds and then traded out of a bunch of them?

Also note the trade backs are based on a theory -- one that I agree with.

Draft picks are inherently risky and you're dealing with an unknown. Even the best drafters will miss a high percentage of the time. The more picks you have, the more likely you are to have more hits (even if your miss percentage is the same as everyone else's).

In 2007 the Patriots traded their #1 pick to the Niners so the Niners could select Joe Staley at #28. They got back a 4th rounder, that they flipped to the Raiders for Randy Moss, and got the Niners 1st round pick in 2008. That pick was at #7. The Pats traded back to #10 to get the guy they wanted, LB Jerod Mayo. They got an extra 3rd in that trade, which turned out to be a LB that didn't work out.

But you can see the theory. It works. It's good. The Pats lost "their" 1st round pick that year due to spygate, but still got Mayo at #10 because of their "system".

I approve of the system. 100%. It's the actual PICKS made that have been lacking in some areas, especially DB, for some time.

Yes, partly because we had too many picks.

Thsi is what we USED:

1st Round – Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
2nd Round – Ras-I Dowling, DB, Virginia
2nd Round – Shane Vereen, RB, Cal
3rd Round – Stevan Ridley, RB, LSU
3rd Round – Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas
5th Round – Marcus Cannon, OL, TCU
5th Round – Lee Smith, TE, Marshall
6th Round – Markell Carter, OLB, Central Arkansas
7th Round – Malcolm Williams, CB, Marshall



This is what we traded:

Picks traded away:
1st Round (NWO – 2012 1st, 2011 2nd)
3rd Round (OAK – 2012 2nd)
4th Round (Oak – 2012 2nd)
4th Round (SEA – Deion Branch) (via DEN (Maroney) if higher than NE pick)
6th Round (DEN – Laurence Maroney)
7th Round (ATL – Quinn Ojinnaka)



We have, somewhat suprisingly, trade away alot of our 2012 picks.

This is where things stand for 2012:

1st Round
1st Round (New Orleans)
2nd Round (Oakland)
2nd Round
3rd Round
4th Round


Picks traded away:

7th Round – (KC – Jarrad Page)
7th Round – (MIN – Randy Moss)
6th Round – (PHI – Tracy White)
5th Round – (CIN – Chad Ochocinco)

Patriot Years

-Pioli and Belichick settled on Stephen Jackson before Vince Wilfork fell to them

-Huge scouting rift between scouts and Belichick on the Maroney and Chad Jackson picks. Belichick wanted the players and scouts/Pioli didn’t. Led to the unravelling of things.

-Belichick on the Patriots system in the draft “The first round you want guys with the fewest questions. The second round you find a lot of players with first round talent but not first round performance or production. The third round, you see guys who are maybe better football players than a lot of guys in the second, but dont have the measurements. The highest bust factor is in the second.


Pioli Interview/First Year

-Hunt thought just getting Pioli to interview was good. When he accepted, Hunt was ecstatic.

-Pioli to Hunt during interview on all organizations but later it said how the Chiefs personified this: “There’s this living, breathing dysfunction with football organizations and it pits lifetime employees vs. temporary employees. It’s insane. You need the help of all these people to do the job well. It’s not just the players. It’s the equipment people, the grounds crew, community relations, marketing...”

-Came here because of his love for Lamar Hunt and because he feels like it would be the ultimate challenge to win a championship here.

-Said the first week in the office he saw this as copies were printed out in all color for no reason costing the organization minimum $10,000 per year for no reason.

-Also saw it when scouts were messing around and surfing the internet during tape review.

-As soon as he got in, he tried to get Gonzalez to stay by selling him on a rebuild but Tony balked and wanted out.

-Book vaguely blames the 3 months of prep time as the reason for the first year draft not panning out


Pioli Offseason 2011

-After last year “We’re just not good enough. At the end of the year, when we couldn’t sneak up on teams and we played good teams, we felt it. What do we need? There aren’t many positions we can look at and say we don’t need help there. We’ve got holes today, but we also have holes a year from now. I’ve seen a great roster. We are so far away from a great roster. So far away. You know we couldn’t get anyone open to catch a pass in the play-offs.”

-In Mobile for Senior Bowl, Chiefs scout Jim Nagy wanted two guys Rodney Hudson and Ricky Stanzi.

-Nagy on Hudson- “This guy is gonna be a good pro. Really impressive guy. He was essentially an offensive line coach on the field”

-Nagy on Stanzi- “If I could pick a quarterback who we will all look back at in 5 years and say ‘Can you believe he lasted that long,’ it would be Stanzi. Most improved player I saw all year. He was watching tape of Senior Bowl practice on his own.

-Haley is a huge Zorn fan and considers Zorn to be a Quarterback guru, which admittedly he is not.

-Chiefs beat out the Titans and Jags for Zorn.

-Each scout report asks six questions in the Chiefs scouting system

1. What will this player’s role be as a Chief?
2. Will the role change from year one to year two?
3. How many downs can he be expected to play?
4. Which current player on the roster will he beat out?
5. What’s his value on special teams?
6. Does he have positional versatility?

-On how the scouts see Weigman: They rave about his durability, toughness and willingness to compete, but all agree that his starting days are over.

-Pioli high on Pouncey and Jason Kelce, who reminds him of Dan Koppen and Olin Kruetz. Kelce sounds like a perfect Chief “throwback, mean, nasty, agressive”

-Scouts on Ingram: “For the Chiefs, he is a younger, more athletic version of Thomas Jones. He’s not as fast as Jamaal but is a more complete back that can stay healthy on the field for three downs. See him as a replacement for Jones and a compliment to Charles.” However, Chiefs brass knew they were not spending a first rounder on Running Back.

-Final Question to all first rounders, “Is he a guy who can help us win championships or a guy who will be the REASON we could win championships.”


The Draft

-One of the top 3 players on the Chiefs board was Aldon Smith.

-Pioli was willing to trade up 6 spots from 21 to 15 to take Mike Pouncey but could not agree on a deal. They viewed him as “day one starter int he league, with smarts, toughness, and the type of talent to transform the entire line.”

-Chiefs felt good at 21 because they saw several players that they would take. Deal from Cleveland was “too good to ignore”.

-Haley “delighted” at the Baldwin pick. Chiefs are “thrilled” to get him because Haley gets the most out of wide receivers. Haley saw the same traits in Baldwin that he saw and brought out in Fitzgerald, Owens, and Keyshawn. Specifically picked him because of how the Ravens took Bowe out of the game.

-Falcons rated Wisnewski as a “fourth or fifth rounder”

-Rams called the Chiefs and offered 112 in the fourth for our 118 in the fourth and 223. Pioli turned it down. 112 was Greg Salas and 118 was Jalil Brown. Haley excited about Brown. Pioli, “He’s got a chance to be a good player.”

-Chiefs looking to deal up to get ahead of Buffalo at 133 for Stanzi. Calls the Ravens and offers our fifth (135) and one of the two 7ths we have next year. Ozzie Newsome calls back and wants next years 5th. Pioli says no. Pioli thinks he has a deal with Houston for 127, so much so that he called our guy in New York and wrote down Stanzi’s name, but the Texans pick instead. Colts call and offer next years 4th for our 5th this year and Pioli says no. Stanzi is approaching. Dallas calls and want to give up 143 and 175 for 135. Pioli says no again sensing Stanzi. Buffalo picks Johnny White at 133 and we get Stanzi.

-Chiefs picked Gabe Miller off his individual workout, which was so good scouts talked about it around the office.

-Hunt says to Houston “I’m excited to see you play.” Houston says back, “And I am going to make sure I give you a reason to notice me on the field. I’m excited to play.”

-Pioli has his eye on Kelce at 199. Pioli is stunned when Philadelphia picks him.

-New target at 199: Powe. Concerns- Health and Weight. Scouts were fine on his intelligence and Pioli was livid when it was even brought up because he was dealing with Attention Deficit Disorder and was a determined student who got respect in the classroom. Haley tells him to keep in shape.

-Everyone thought the last day of this year’s draft was very good.

What a joke...

It's amazing to me that we have learned more today, from this book, than 3 years of KC reporters.

No shit. I do like the way Pioli is a no nonsense guy. Seems to have a pretty good football eye too.

Hope Stanzi pans out. Powe as well.

I'm gonna try and get this out........Tyson Jackson....has been our best dlineman this year.

Good stuff thanks OTWP and Clay!

And Chiefnj.

And Chiefnj.

After reading those quotes from Pioli about our roster being so far away then I have to wonder why aren't they doing anything about it? They really didn't spend much money in FA and they aren't adding alot of new players.

It doesn't make much sense unless he was told to be cheap.

The Patriots were never players in free agency.

They are building the roster through the draft, and they'll fill holes with role players in free agency.

I'm not sure I agree with their draft decisions, but I do believe in the philosophy.

Takes longer, but you acheive more sustainable success if you get it right.

Not gonna disagree.

I'm sure they have a checklist much like the 6 question form for the draft for free agency. Also, investment in relation to expected production, or projected upgrade of position. There's probably a lot of reasons guys in FA don't make it to KC.

Damn. I would love to be a fly on the wall in a draft room. Has to be hectic and exciting as hell.
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Awesome thread.....

TYSON JACKSON, SUPER BOWL MVP

:rockon:

The book ended by saying how KC began the off season spending lots of money - Breaston and Hali, in particular. It was written in a light favorable to all 3 men. KC mentioned the least, IMO. It didn't go into any depth of what the teams plans were after all were ousted from the playoffs.

Germs crack scouts. In all honesty they were probably sending out job resumes. Keeping Kuharik might have been good, the drafts definitely improved when he took over.

I sure hope you're right.