Late night bullshit: Safety depth.
 

This team needs a lot of different pieces in the draft, but one place that it's particularly hurting is for depth behind Eric Berry and Kendrick Lewis. My desire for Mark Barron in the draft notwithstanding, this is a damn good starting safety combo, but safety is always an injury prone position.

Add into that the prevalence of the Chiefs' subpackages, and extra safeties are necessary.

The backup safety position on this team is atrocious. Donald Washington and Rashard Langford will stay alive on this roster only by blowing shit up on special teams, and not by staying on the field during defensive snaps.

Jon McGraw is a serviceable guy because of his decent-enough instincts, but only at the less-physical position of free safety, and only in bits and pieces. He remains incredibly popular in the locker room, and I'm willing to accept that.

Now, safety is one of the weakest positions in this draft, but let's use this thread as an opportunity to talk about some of our favorite mid-to-late round safety prospects, since we can expect the Chiefs to pick up at least one in the draft.

I thought McGraw was gone

Three favorites of mine at SS in case Berry goes down:

SS Winston Guy, Jr., Kentucky -- super productive, good sized safety with limited athleticism. great instincts in diagnosing the play, has a rare nose for the ball in Kuechly-like fashion. may not even get drafted due to his awkward athleticism, but I think he could be a late round steal.

SS Tony Dye, UCLA -- injury-laden career nonetheless gave way to some brilliant, hard hat play. he is a safety with limited athleticism, but loves mixing it up in the box. is a natural read-and-reacter in the Romeo Crennel mode. would be a great run defender a la Kurt Coleman

Sean Richardson, Vanderbilt -- Chiefs were scoping out Vanderbilt not too long ago, Richardson is a 220-lb behemoth built for punishing in the box, but is a liability in coverage. I love how Richardson hits, though -- he has a Pollard-propensity to sacrifice the safe tackle for the big hit

as of right now we dont even have McGraw under contract that's how bad our safety depth is

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure McGraw and Langford are both gone.

We didn't tender Langford and JMs contract ran out.

If we re-sign either guy, we might lose a pretty high comp pick next year from losing Carr.

they have got to be gearing up to draft CBs and Safeties as well as bringing in any and every undrafted safety into camp they can get their hands on

Wait how does that work? I thought comp picks were comp picks for specific players? As in you lose one highly-valued player, you get a pick. Period. If it works like you're saying why don't we run the risk of missing out on that pick by signing Routt and company?

calm down we still have sabby, don't we?

the matt cassell of db's

We let Jones, Battle and McClain walk and signed a guy that can do it all with Peyton Hillis.

Maybe we let Langford and McGraw walk and draft Barron who can fill both roles.

I'd be very happy with that pick. Im a big fan of his and think he could heavily impact our defense.

I don't see him on the roster

Because we don't he is an UFA as well.

The ONLY signings that matter in regards to comp picks are "eligible free agents" which are those that contracts expired.

Guys that were cut aren't included in the equation.

If your team loses more eligible free agents to other teams than you signed from other teams eligible free agents...you are awarded a comp pick for each player over that count.

The round of the comp pick is determined by the amount your free agents signed elsewhere for and their playing time (comp picks next year will be from these equations from this offseason for that reason)

Losing Carr to a big contract to a team he will play a lot for should give us the highest level of comp pick if we keep our count high.

That's another reason Winston, Routt and Boss were probably targeted...they were cut.

We have lost Carr and Orton to other teams and only signed Hillis that actually had an expired contract.

That should put us in line for a nice pick next year.

Sorry for the thread swerve, shun.

I'd rather sign a vet as a backup.

Are only Safety are

Eric Berry
Kendrick Lewis
Kyle McCarthy
Donald Washington

Berry was out the season and the Chiefs were still 6th in pass defense at the end of the year. We need safety depth but our coaching in the defensive backfield is a huge bonus.

McGraw can't go. GIF'D UP will die.

There's a lot of Coalition dialect in this response.

I'm ok with taking that risk for now...

Mcgraw isn't nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be. He isn't super gifted, but you could tell the difference when he was and wasn't in there last year.

He's a quality backup and i hope we keep him.

This

Is Jim Leonard done?

He's had some injury issues but was a pretty solid safety for the Jets. He'd make nice veteran depth.

I think B-Rich was more of the Gif'D up King but hey we still got The Queen Casthoe

I completely agree we should trade down and draft Barron. I think safety might be our biggest need after QB and NT and the best value in the 1st rd.

Especially when you consider the safety position has more injuries and plays reserves more than the other positions being looked at, plus the QB's we have to face, especially in our division.

Look at the player and position who is the weakest, and who makes you cringe when they are on the field giving up a big play? Between the guys you want to replace:

-Belcher
-Lilja
-Lewis or with 3 safties Donald Washington/Kyle McCarthy. Last year- reserves McGraw/Langsford/Sabby Pissmyself saw wayyyy too much playing time.

Rookies being looked at who you would want to replace them with:

-Kuechly
-DeCastro
-Barron

I think Belcher and Lilja could easily be lived with on the field and are capable of playing a more than average ability, while the safety position holds the bigger weakness at the reserve and 3 safety sets.

If we are able to trade back we could get an extra pick and then NT should probably be the next position looked at. We need some beef in the middle pretty desperately. We could use 1 or 2 of these guys:


-Alameda Ta'amu, Washington, Height: 6-3 Weight: 348 Projected Round: 2-3
-Josh Chapman, Alabama, Height: 6-1 Weight: 316 Projected Round: 2-4
-Nick Jean-Baptiste, Baylor, Height: 6-1 Weight: 335 Projected Round: 3-5

#4 Mark Barron looks for real
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Even if we are stuck at 11 and can't move down, Barron wouldn't be a bad pick IMO.

Obviously though, our best case scenario would be to move back and get him.

The more I see him the I think a safety duo of SS Mark Barron and FS of Eric Berry would reek havoc on both the run and the pass.

Ang

Not sure he'd be ready this season. He tore his knee up against us last year.

Just don't expect him to stay with a TE.

Langford and Richardson are both Vandy guys. Langford is better. Both in coverage and tackling. No upgrade there.

Some of you are upset at taking Kuechly because he would replace a young ascending player in Belcher, but are ok with doing it to Lewis?

Noticed this group of safeties still on the FA market -

Jim Leonhard
OJ Atogwe
Melvin Bullitt
Sean Jones
Chris Harris
Chris Hope

Leonhard might not be available to start the season but most of the guys on this list are, at minimum, borderline starters with Atogwe and Bullitt being the best of the group. Considering our depth last season consisted of McGraw and Sabby, I'd consider it a pretty solid upgrade if we signed a guy or two off this list.

It wouldn't be replacing Lewis. Both he and Barron would both be on the field more than half the time.

Drafting Kuechly takes Belcher off the field except for special teams.

Probably so.


I just think Kuechly could be an all around great ILB. He could play in all sub stuff if needed.


I wouldn't be upset with Barron at all, but we could grab Kuechly and Harrison Smith in the second as well.

maybe its because Lewis is a FS who can't man-to-man cover and it looks like Crennel is going to more man with the Routt signing.

Taking Kuechly at 11 would be worse than taking Decastro there.

JMO

I've just come to realize the fact that whoever we take at 11, if we can't trade down, it's gonna be someone to upgrade a spot.


We aren't really in need of an immediate starter at any one spot outside of the obvious spot.

We have a chance to really add depth and actually good depth this draft.


There are gonna be good players around in the 4 and 5 round that can really help this team.

Then wouldn't you wanna do the same with a LB that can't cover at all?

I realize it's bad form to take a guard that high, but he seems like a better prospect than Kuechly. There's little chance that DeCastro will bust or disappoint, but Kuechly isn't a sure thing. We'll need a good guard next year and could use one this year. Let's get ahead of our needs and take the future all-pro guard now.

I saw the stats you posted for tackles and forced fumbles for Kuechly in another thread, but the stat that I would be interested in would be the number of tackles for loss he made.

I also wonder which sure thing top ten guy that everyone thought would go early is going to fall right to us. Really wonder what they would do if that happened to be Richardson? Although that is probably what it would take to get a trading partner, it would be very tempting.

12 which doesn't put him in the top 90 college players.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/leader/...21/sort01.html

Meh. In 3 seasons he had 35.5 tackles for a loss. To put it in comparison, look at another good tackling ILB, who also is good in coverage. Patrick Willis in 3 seasons at University of Mississippi had 32 tackles for a loss.

Here are the numbers for Kuechly's 3 seasons versus Patrick Willis' 3 seasons as a starter in college:

Player - Willis- Kuechly
Games Played - 32- 38
Solo Tackles - 231- 299
Assisted Tackles - 104- 233
Tackles for Loss - 32- 35.5
Loss Yardage - 148- 97
Forced Fumbles - 5- 2
Interceptions - 1- 7
Interception Yards - 0- 130
Touchdowns - 0- 2
Pass Breakups - 11- 10

Willis did create 3 more fumbles than Kuechly did but Kuechly blew Willis away with 7 interceptions, 130 interception return yards, and 2 TD's compared with Willis' 1 interception returned for no yardage.

No matter who we get, they will improve our team, and our defense should be pretty fun to watch this year.

What these numbers tell me though, is that Kuechly is an athletic guy with speed, but he doesn't bust up a lot of plays.

He reminds of of Donnie Edwards, who made a lot of tackles because of his speed, but he wasn't a physical guy that knocked people on thir ass.

Defending the pass has become more and more important, but you still need to knock ball carriers on their ass to get into those passing situations, and Belcher is a thumper that does that, and he also takes on blockers that allows for DJ to make plays.

I'd rather take a corner, a pass rusher, or a safety.

What's the difference in knocking people on their ass and tackling someone?

I'm talking about the difference between meeting someone head on and stopping them in their tracks, or running around blocks and taking them down from behind, or letting them drag you for a yard or two.

Anytime Donnie Edwards tackled someone, it looked like he was going for a piggyback ride.

Kuechly is like Donnie Edwards in that he goes sideline to sideline. Major difference is he can also run stride for stride with a speedy WR downfield, blanket a TE underneath and still have 20 tackles without getting worn down or tired. Unlike Edwards, it isn't easy getting past Kuechly with a screen or misdirection play.

BC didn't have him rush the QB, but with his speed and ability to get past blocks, I am sure he would be good at it. If they would have had him get after the QB he would probably be a top 5 pick.

Even though Kuechly is actually 20 pounds heavier than Belcher, he doesn't look like it or hit like it and make the jaring hits. I am not sure he can be taught to hit like that since he is known as a get them to the ground sure tackler. On the flipside, he is much better than Belcher in coverage. He will get you more INT's than FF.

There wasn't many times when he has to chase someone from behind, as they played a kind of read and react type of zone defense where everything is mostly in front of him unless he is in coverage.

He is super bright and loves to study football. Teams that played against him usually complain that it is like he knowns their plays as he is so good at sniffing out what the offense will try to do before they do it. He credits film study, but anyone who gets over 20 tackles in games is gonna seem superhuman.

Think of the playoff game against Baltimore. Would you rather have the TE's catching a lot of passes, and then getting a jarring hit, or would you rather have a LB that can blanket them and maybe get a chance to make a play on the ball?

Kuechly isnt Patrick Willis.

I dont care what the stats say.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...feties/page/33



This right here is why you don't listen to the Bleacher report. Lewis not even on that list.

BC didn't really use him in a way that would account for a lot of tfl.

People over rate Lewis imo.

It's like they remember all of his INTs, and none of the times he got totally burned.

I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, but he's probably the most damaging weak spot we have on our D.

Plus he's a terrible tackler. I'd replace Lewis before Belcher.

I thought Lewis had improved last year.

He did, but he looks like he's reached pretty close to his ceiling.

Why would Lewis be listed?

He's so bad in coverage that we would rather put McGraw on a tightend than Lewis. He mediocre in run support.

He did one thing for us ... sat in centerfield and looks for the bad pass. The stats say Lewis had 10 PD's but i think i remember only 2 that i would consider really good plays. Carr and Flowers couldn't count on help from him down the sideline or to blow up the quick slant even though he stayed back.

Lewis got the flashy stat plays but not much else.

Now ... he's still young and might develop but so far he hasn't been anything special.

we could draft Barron and switch Berry to FS and be much stronger at Safety imo. Of course you have to worry about Barron staying healthy but he would bring some serious heat to the safety position.

Ive mentioned it a couple times, but Lewis is a very similar player to Jerrod Page IMO.

Misses tackles...doesnt have the speed to catch up if beaten....is smart but can be fooled...makes some opportunistic picks, etc.

People seem ok with replacing Belcher and totally taking him off the field in favor of Kueckly...but seem unwilling to upgrade free safety when Lewis runs a 4.7 40.

Putting Berry at FS and selecting Barron to play SS and still having Lewis for sub packages is probably our best bet to upgrade our defense both short and long term.

Id much rather trade down for value, but if we are stuck and the blue chip guys are off the board, Barron would be one hell of a good "consolation prize" and would impact the run and pass defense.

Why would you have to worry about him staying healthy?

He played the last two years injured and played very well.

If Im making the pick and given the information available to us as fans, my top 3 picks are as follows:

1) Tanehill
2) Richardson
3) Barron
4) Pass rusher

I know some will laugh at having Tanehill as my top guy with admittedly not even seeing him play a whole game, but Ill take a chance at a quarterback with the ceiling of a franchise guy over anything else.

I'd rather keep Berry at SS where he looked like one of the best players in the league. If it aint broke don't fix it.

This is my list as well. For pretty much the exact same reasons. :D

Barron is recovering from double-hernia surgery and he tore his pectoral muscle in his sophomore season.

nature of the position especially with the physical way he plays.


just sayin'

Of course not. Kuechly still has A LOT to prove, but when all is said and done he could end up being just as good as Willis. I have heard him compared to him, and I listed the comparison just to show how a LB with similar skill sets and played a similar role in college stacks up.

One thing that impresses me is to look at when both were first thrown into the game as a starter at their position.

Their freshman year while still learning their position:

Willis played in all 13 games, making only 20 stops after being one of the top 60 linebackers in high school.

Kuechly on the other hand, was suddenly put into the starting outside linebacker position his freshmman year only after Mark Herzlich announced that he would miss the season after being diagnosed with cancer.

He responded by finishing the season first among all freshmen in the nation with 158 tackles, a sack and returned an interception for a touchdown while being named the defensive MVP and ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year. This from a kid that played safety his senior year of high school.

Their sophmore year:

Patrick Willis-
As a sophomore in 2004, he appeared in 10 of 11 games and earned honorable mention All-Southeastern Conference (SEC) honors from The Associated Press. He recorded 70 tackles (54 solo), and led the team with 11.0 TFLs (tackles-for-loss) and five sacks.

Luke Kuechly-
His first season at MLB. He moved to middle linebacker at the beginning of his sophomore season in 2010. He went on to lead the country with 183 tackles (110 solo) shattering his school record of 165 tackles that had stood for nearly 20 years. He was named a finalist for the Butkus Award, the Nagurski Award, and was named a unanimous consensus All-America selection. At the end of the season Kuechly was named the defensive MVP for a second time.

To me, that shows not only a natural athletic ability, but also shows his ability to learn on the fly. He is a student of the game who is always going to prepare himself to be the best that he can.

I would also love Harrison Smith if he lasts till the 3rd... Good tools w that kid

there is probably a joke in there somewhere. :D
he has played with the double hernia the last two years and will probably play better once its totally healed.

It wont keep him from being on the field and being very effective.

Every player has injuries after you play the game 4 or 5 years (counting HS) its inevitable.

Barron and Berry...what kind of nickname would be suitable for a safety tandem like that?

relax man ... i didn't say we shouldn't take him.

I could see barron and berry

it's just a concern

Why do people say things like "relax man" and similar things when Im totally calm and did nothing but offer a reasoned take?

I didnt even say to fist anybodies corpse or drink any aidsafreeze....

lol ... you seemed to be trying to argue about it.

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There is a difference between arguing with me and having a coherent conversation.

I think I make it quite clear when I am arguing with people.

FWIW you're out of my dog house, Laz....now, get your hand out of that corpse and go get some koolaid and some lava soap!!! :D

He also missed time last year with torn rib cartilage. This last spring he also was arrested for second-degree hindering prosecution, but I doubt anyone is concerned since it is only a misdemeanor in the state of Alabama.

ROFL

The great thing is that we should be able to get the very top ranked player at a number of different positions that we were weak with last year.

I agree with many on here about Poe, and view Alameda Ta'amu as the top NT and hope he is still there when we pick in rd 2.

Barron is a little scary

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I would be all for drafting Barron. Lewis showed improvement and promise but Barron would be an upgrade.Barron and Berry would be the best safety combo for years to come. Lewis would still get playing time in certain packages. Plus having 2 players with dreads back there cant hurt haha. Also a fan of drafting decastro. Markelle Martin (OSU) and George Iloka (Boise) are also players that we could pick up later that would come in and play immediately if not start. Also think we need another corner if Routte doesnt do what they think he can someone like Trumaine Johnson (Montana) in round 2 or 3. Another name is Cliff Harris (Oregon) a corner who had a monster year in 2010 and dropped off a bit last year, has some nice highlights on him. hes projected in rounds 5-7

Barron is exactly the type of player this defense needs now with Peyton in the division

Barron, Berry, Lewis, Flowers, Routt, Arenas all on the field at the same time

man.

Not a fan of Kuechly. I'd rather go Decastro or Richardson if he slides. We still only have two RB coming off injuries. I like TR as a complement to Charles / Hillis. But there are so many good possibilities trading back would be great. If TR isn't there then trade back if perfect.

Bring Tyler palko back, put him at safety.