Arguing with a donkey fan
 

Awesome read

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1...-a-broncos-fan


Arguing with a Broncos fan

By MNchiefsfan  @RealMNchiefsfan on Nov 11 2013, 4:45p 147



Ron Chenoy-US PRESSWIRE

I don't want you to enter Chiefs-Broncos week unarmed.


Tweet (18) Share (20)  Share 147 Comments ⋆ Rec 14


It's almost time.

The long-awaited matchup between the Chiefs and the Broncos is finally under a week away. The 9-0 (and division leading, and only undefeated, and yes I'm saying all that because it's fun) Chiefs face the 8-1 (and not undefeated and not division-leading) Broncos in a clash of two of the best teams in the NFL.

It's not just a battle between great teams or division rivals, either. It's a fight between two totally different styles of play. The Broncos are a high-flying offense that destroys teams, but also are near the top of the league in turnovers and have a defense that has been an issue at times. The Chiefs almost never make mistakes and sport a ferocious defense, but has an offense that has really struggled. It's almost an old school vs. new age game (for the record, if this game were played 15 years ago, Chiefs win by 20 and Wes Welker gets his head torn off by Eric Berry. That is an absolute fact).

But it's not even about just the teams anymore. This season, more than any other in recent memory, has been about fan rivalry. I have never seen two fanbases get under each others' skin like the Chiefs and the Broncos fans have this year. Maybe that's because this is the first time both teams are REALLY good at the same time since the interweb got huge. Maybe it's because of the clashing style. Maybe it's because Peyton Manning is evil. It's all speculation, really.

But that said, this is going to be a week of INTENSE trash talk, debating, and general junk-waving (for lack of a better term). In honor of what is the biggest regular season game in... well, let's say forever (since it's the time for hyperbole in sports), I've decided to dust off an oldie and get back to basics.




The best Chiefs regular season games in recent memory

Don't call it a comeback, but it's time for another round of the "Arguing With..." series!

(Side note. I really don't know how this game is going to go. It wouldn't surprise me that much if the Chiefs won by 10, or even more. It also wouldn't surprise me if it went the other way. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy every minute of the trash talk between now and then)

Since AP has grown fivefold since I last did one of these, let's go over the format. I present the typical argument you'd hear from a Broncos fan, then present to you the way to destroy that argument. Good times will be had by all, and you'll be ready to destroy your co-worker who just started cheering for the Broncos last year because he's a d-bag frontrunner and probably a communist.

Broncos Fan: "The Chefs are totally overrated. They've had the softest schedule ever. Beating bad teams means nothing! We're the class of the NFL. Did you see how I called your team the 'Chefs?' Wasn't that awesome?"

We'll start with something really, really, really easy but shockingly common. I've heard this so many times I think I could answer it in my sleep.

Yep, the Chiefs have beaten teams that (taking out the Chiefs games) have a combined record of 30-45, with a winning % of .400. Clearly, that's not all that impressive.

But hey, this should be a two-way street, yes? So what's the combined record of the teams the Broncos have beaten this year? Subtracting their games against the Broncos, it comes out to... 28-38, for a winning % of.424.

Pardon me while I shiver with appreciation for how much the Broncos have proven themselves this year. I mean, that .024 is clearly a gaping chasm that calls for any comparison between the two teams to be laughed at, right?

Anyone who dismisses the Chiefs based on SoS but lauds the Broncos as amazing is forcing a double standard that is just nuts.

Broncos Fan: "Yeah, well, the Broncos have been amazing for two years! The Chiefs have only been OK this year. That's why I can say it's super different. We'd be winning anyways, and we've proven that by how awesome we were last year, too."

When they say this (and they will), be happy they brought up 2012 while talking about strength of schedule.

Because you want to know a dirty little secret about the Broncos "dominant" 13 wins last year. They came at the expense of teams that were a combined 80-128 (.385). Yep. Sure, they PLAYED 3 other teams with exceptional records during the regular season (Falcons, Texans, and Patriots)... and lost to all 3 of them.

So feel free to let them bring this up as a justification to ignore our similar strength of schedule in 2013 (and again, they will). Because it's a perfect chance to point out to them that if we're really going to say having a weak strength of schedule means you've proven nothing at all, then the Broncos are right there with the Chiefs.

Broncos Fan: "Fine, whatever, but your strength of schedule is still really stupid weak, yo. Anyone could win 9 straight against those teams."

Maybe you're arguing with someone stubborn enough to stick to their guns. This is a perfect time to bring up that word everyone loves to throw around in the NFL: parity.

All you have to do is take a look around the NFL every week and you'll see a "good" team lose to a "bad" team. This most recent week the freaking Jaguars, the worst team I've seen in my life, beat a Titans squad most people thought had a shot to try for the playoffs. The lowly Rams curb stomped everyone's favorite Super Bowl dark horse, the Colts.



All you have to do is take a look around the NFL every week and you'll see a "good" team lose to a "bad" team.

And it's not as though this was some sort of unique week, either. Last week the Jets stunned the Saints while the Dolphins overcame the Bengals in what everyone thought at the time was a major upset (seems a lot more plausible now, eh?). The reeling Redskins beat a Chargers team that was looking like it could contend for a wild card spot.

It is insanely difficult to win 9 consecutive games in the National Football League. That is just a stone cold fact. If it weren't, these types of streaks would happen a lot more often. The NFL features more parity than any other league in the world. This isn't the NCAA, where the talent level between the best team and the worst team is insurmountable. Any given Sunday actually does have meaning.

And really, if it were THAT easy to win 9 straight... you'd think the great and wonderful Broncos could've done it.

Broncos Fan: "Whatever. You've faced all backup quarterbacks and scrubs. You're lucky you haven't had to face a legit offense yet this year. That's the only reason your defense looks good."

Hey, no denying that the Chiefs have had some luck when it comes to quarterbacks. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not as good as Jake Locker. Jeff Tuel is a definite downgrade from what the Bills want to march out at quarterback.

On the flip side... it's an utterly asinine idea that the Chiefs somehow got "lucky" playing against Case Keenum and Jason Campbell as opposed to Matt Schaub and Brandon Weeden (or even Brian Hoyer). Let's really look at this.

Matt Schaub was D-O-N-E. He didn't just have a fork stuck in him, he was half eaten and being boxed up to take home. He was throwing pick-six's like they were going out of style and was actively costing the Texans games. When Keenum played against the Chiefs and looked competent, everyone (and by everyone, I mean the Broncos fan you're arguing with) assumed it was because the Chiefs defense is overrated.

Except then Keenum went out and played even better against the Colts (a team Broncos fans pretend is the 2nd best in the NFL), then very well against a Cardinals defense everyone acknowledges is very tough. So much for that "you've been saved by backup quarterbacks" theory when it comes to the Texans. Keenum playing made it harder, not easier.

What about Campbell? Dude's terrible, right? Except no one, literally NO ONE will say Weeden would've been tougher than Campbell. People try and argue Hoyer would be tougher, but that's just crazy. Hoyer looked solid in exactly one game this season (against the Bengals). Beyond that he had a game against the Vikings where he took as much off the table as he put on it (3 INT's to go along with 3 TD's) and a few snaps against the Bills.

Jason Campbell, in the meantime, played a solid game against the Chiefs and then absolutely shredded the Ravens. Sorry, we didn't "luck out" there at all. We got unlucky.

Finally, is everyone seriously forgetting about the Chiefs defense holding offenses led by Tony Romo, Mike Vick, and Eli Manning to under 17 points? Please. Don't act like the Chiefs have only played 3rd string quarterbacks. It's just plain wrong, and makes you look like you don't bother to really look beyond box score analysis.

Broncos Fan: "Fine, but what about your rushing defense. Worst in the league! I knew you guys sucked!"

Since I just mentioned box score analysis, this seemed like a good one to bring up. This is a perfect time to say, "you haven't watched many of the games this year, have you?" Since they're making this argument, the answer will inevitably either be "only the Eagles and Bills games," or "I've seen them all, twice!" (the second one, by the way, is a bald faced lie people say to act like they know what they're talking about).




Chiefs run D has sprung a leak

Should any Chiefs fan be a little concerned about the run defense. Sure. Is it even close to as bad as that 5.0 stat? Nope. We've had success stopping the run in every game we've played in but two: the Eagles and the Bills. I'll give you the Eagles; Mike Vick and LeSean McCoy ran all over us.

But the Bills game? Anyone watching that saw the missed tackles, the failures to wrap up, and the blown assignments that just screamed "our head isn't in this one!" Our defense picked the worst week to decide to put in a halfway effort for much of the day, because C.J. Spiller and Fred Jackson are both seriously good running backs. And so they made us pay.

Our run defense held up against a healthy DeMarco Murray and David Wilson (both excellent players who are very dangerous when healthy). It did just fine against a tough Houston OL and Ben Tate, busting his ribs in the process (and don't say Arian Foster would've tore the Chiefs up. He had 4 carries for 11 yards when he exited the game). Anyone who bothers to watch the games can see our run defense can get the job done. It's an argument for the lazy to claim the Chiefs run defense "struggles" based on two awful games.

And beyond all that, even in the absolute worst two games, the Chiefs defense got it done when it was time to put the game away. If either Philly or Buffalo had been able to keep running the ball with success against our defense, we lose those games. But we didn't. Because they couldn't.

Broncos Fan: "Chiefs defense is still overrated. The Broncos offense is going to eat them alive with PFM!"

Hey, that very well may be. Who knows what the future holds? But ask your Broncos fan friend if he isn't just a LITTLE nervous based on a few simple facts...

1) The Broncos offense has struggled a bit (relatively speaking) when teams have moved to physical press man coverage. This happens to be exactly what the Chiefs are best at.

2) The Broncos replacement left tackle, Chris Clark, has definitely struggled against top tier competition. Tamba Hali is rushing the passer as well as or better than anyone in the league. Including Robert Mathis, who basically carved Clark up and ate him like a Christmas ham on national television.

3) The Chiefs pass rush has struggled most with quarterbacks who get out of the pocket and run around. Peyton Manning is a statue.

4) The Broncos offense just did this in 4 straight drives in the 2nd half against a Chargers defense that is missing its best pass rusher and is very weak in the secondary...

2 plays, -9 yards (fumble)

6 plays, 15 yards (punt)

3 plays, 6 yards (punt)

7 plays, 22 yards (punt)

Tell me the Broncos aren't thinking about those 4 things. They absolutely are, especially that number 1. And remember, putting up 28 on the Chargers is like putting up 3 against the Chiefs (via my super special math formula. And no, I can't reveal it).

Broncos Fan: "Whatever, even if you manage to hold our awesome offense to 28 points, there's no way you guys will score that much. Your offense sux, bro!"

Finally, an argument with some merit! Of course, your Broncos fan friend is going to overstate it by making it sound as though we're the... well, 2012 Chiefs. And that's just not true.

As of right now (these stats are going to change when the tallies from Week 10 are in, but I'm not waiting!), the Chiefs rank 17th in the NFL in scoring at 23.9 PPG. They're less than 2 points a game out of the top 10, for what that's worth.

And yes, I'm aware that includes defense and special teams. I guess my question is... so? A defense that forces costly mistakes and takes advantage of them is a skill, and one that is a threat to put points on the board at any time (especially against turnover prone teams. Say, aren't the Broncos turnover prone?). A dangerous return game is a skill.

The Chiefs, as an offense, have definitely been relatively disappointing this year. But at the end of the day, they've come through in the clutch when we desperately needed points. Since your friend is a Broncos fan, they probably didn't actually watch the Chiefs games and see...

... the 80-yard TD drive against the Cowboys in the 3rd quarter to regain the lead.

... the clock-killing 8 minute FG drive from our own goal line to reclaim momentum and basically ice the game against the Eagles.



...in the absolute worst moments, when it's been ESSENTIAL to get points on the board, the Chiefs offense has delivered.

... the 64 yard TD drive against the Titans in the 4th quarter to get the lead back from down 4.

... the 97 yard TD drive in the 2nd quarter to prop up the defense while Case Keenum was doing his best Joe Montana impression.

... the 75 yard TD drive in the 2nd quarter to bump the lead against the Browns to two scores.

.... the clock-chewing FG drive against the Bills to make it a two score game with roughly 2 minutes to go, again effectively icing the game.

The Chiefs offense hasn't been pretty, and it sure hasn't done enough to make the wins comfortable. But in the absolute worst moments, when it's been ESSENTIAL to get points on the board, the Chiefs offense has delivered.

Does that mean the offense isn't a concern? Nope. But it sure pushes back against the idea that it's some kind of crazy anchor weighing us down.

That should about cover it for at least one conversation. But I'll leave you with a few quick hitters.

If they say their defense is going to be way better with Champ Bailey back...

Tell them you hope Champ plays. Dude has been playing awful when he's been on the field this year, yet Denver's coaching staff insists on treating him like it's still 2010. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll end up on Donnie Avery, so we can all watch him get burned within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.

If they say Orlando Franklin will shut down Justin Houston...




5 keys to stopping Denver's offense

Point out that per PFF, in the 3 games Houston has played significant snaps against Franklin as a pass rusher, he's got 4 sacks, QB hit, and 4 QB hurries. And this was before Sutton and his own growth had him at the level he's at now. Could happen, but doesn't seem likely.

If they say Manny Ramirez will hold Dontari Poe down on his own...

Ask them to kindly watch some film from the Browns and Texans games, where Poe couldn't be contained by two of the best centers in the league in Alex Mack and Chris Myers. Then PRAY the Broncos decide to leave Ramirez alone against Poe.

There are a million more arguments to be had, but this should leave you with plenty of ammunition in the upcoming interweb wars. Here's hoping for a great game Sunday, and some good clean smack talk between now and then.

Oh wait, one more thing!

If they say "we're the best closing team in football" or something similar (something I've heard a lot from Broncos fans)...

The Chiefs have literally not been outscored in the 4th quarter once this year. It hasn't happened. Out defense has given up 17 points total in the 4th quarter through 9 games. And before they holler about our offense, point out our offense has scored 70 4th quarter points. Yep, that's 70-17, without a single time being outscored in the 4th (like the Broncos have been... twice).

The best closing team in the NFL resides in Kansas City. Should be a great game.

tldr

Jesus Christ! Could not read after 3 sentences!

Wordy words are wordy.

No1curr

I read it
waiting to ignore the monday night game

and will send it top my bronco buddy the second he says one

last night I told him Manning was trying to dodge us and the pats by faking the knee injury, so they can coast into a wild card spot with out getting killed

Last time I read something that long I was studying for the bar exam! JFC that's a long winded article. That God you at least broke it into 4,278 paragraphs

Rico has a mult?

So it's all like this? It's either you Donk fan bitching in your ear or Payton Manning "talking" to the officials (27,000 a game)!!

http://files.myopera.com/rickdmichae...Male%20Dog.jpg

Oh yeah?

:D This.

hey, I had to bail

It's a good read. I like it!

read it all. stat-masters dream!!!



tear their effing heads off chiefs!!!

Bronco fans are gay!

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/1...-a-broncos-fan


Arguing with a Broncos fan

By MNchiefsfan  @RealMNchiefsfan on Nov 11 2013, 4:45p 147



Ron Chenoy-US PRESSWIRE

I don't want you to enter Chiefs-Broncos week unarmed.


Tweet (18) Share (20)  Share 147 Comments ⋆ Rec 14


It's almost time.

The long-awaited matchup between the Chiefs and the Broncos is finally under a week away. The 9-0 (and division leading, and only undefeated, and yes I'm saying all that because it's fun) Chiefs face the 8-1 (and not undefeated and not division-leading) Broncos in a clash of two of the best teams in the NFL.

It's not just a battle between great teams or division rivals, either. It's a fight between two totally different styles of play. The Broncos are a high-flying offense that destroys teams, but also are near the top of the league in turnovers and have a defense that has been an issue at times. The Chiefs almost never make mistakes and sport a ferocious defense, but has an offense that has really struggled. It's almost an old school vs. new age game (for the record, if this game were played 15 years ago, Chiefs win by 20 and Wes Welker gets his head torn off by Eric Berry. That is an absolute fact).

But it's not even about just the teams anymore. This season, more than any other in recent memory, has been about fan rivalry. I have never seen two fanbases get under each others' skin like the Chiefs and the Broncos fans have this year. Maybe that's because this is the first time both teams are REALLY good at the same time since the interweb got huge. Maybe it's because of the clashing style. Maybe it's because Peyton Manning is evil. It's all speculation, really.

But that said, this is going to be a week of INTENSE trash talk, debating, and general junk-waving (for lack of a better term). In honor of what is the biggest regular season game in... well, let's say forever (since it's the time for hyperbole in sports), I've decided to dust off an oldie and get back to basics.




The best Chiefs regular season games in recent memory

Don't call it a comeback, but it's time for another round of the "Arguing With..." series!

(Side note. I really don't know how this game is going to go. It wouldn't surprise me that much if the Chiefs won by 10, or even more. It also wouldn't surprise me if it went the other way. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy every minute of the trash talk between now and then)

Since AP has grown fivefold since I last did one of these, let's go over the format. I present the typical argument you'd hear from a Broncos fan, then present to you the way to destroy that argument. Good times will be had by all, and you'll be ready to destroy your co-worker who just started cheering for the Broncos last year because he's a d-bag frontrunner and probably a communist.

Broncos Fan: "The Chefs are totally overrated. They've had the softest schedule ever. Beating bad teams means nothing! We're the class of the NFL. Did you see how I called your team the 'Chefs?' Wasn't that awesome?"

We'll start with something really, really, really easy but shockingly common. I've heard this so many times I think I could answer it in my sleep.

Yep, the Chiefs have beaten teams that (taking out the Chiefs games) have a combined record of 30-45, with a winning % of .400. Clearly, that's not all that impressive.

But hey, this should be a two-way street, yes? So what's the combined record of the teams the Broncos have beaten this year? Subtracting their games against the Broncos, it comes out to... 28-38, for a winning % of.424.

Pardon me while I shiver with appreciation for how much the Broncos have proven themselves this year. I mean, that .024 is clearly a gaping chasm that calls for any comparison between the two teams to be laughed at, right?

Anyone who dismisses the Chiefs based on SoS but lauds the Broncos as amazing is forcing a double standard that is just nuts.

Broncos Fan: "Yeah, well, the Broncos have been amazing for two years! The Chiefs have only been OK this year. That's why I can say it's super different. We'd be winning anyways, and we've proven that by how awesome we were last year, too."

When they say this (and they will), be happy they brought up 2012 while talking about strength of schedule.

Because you want to know a dirty little secret about the Broncos "dominant" 13 wins last year. They came at the expense of teams that were a combined 80-128 (.385). Yep. Sure, they PLAYED 3 other teams with exceptional records during the regular season (Falcons, Texans, and Patriots)... and lost to all 3 of them.

So feel free to let them bring this up as a justification to ignore our similar strength of schedule in 2013 (and again, they will). Because it's a perfect chance to point out to them that if we're really going to say having a weak strength of schedule means you've proven nothing at all, then the Broncos are right there with the Chiefs.

Broncos Fan: "Fine, whatever, but your strength of schedule is still really stupid weak, yo. Anyone could win 9 straight against those teams."

Maybe you're arguing with someone stubborn enough to stick to their guns. This is a perfect time to bring up that word everyone loves to throw around in the NFL: parity.

All you have to do is take a look around the NFL every week and you'll see a "good" team lose to a "bad" team. This most recent week the freaking Jaguars, the worst team I've seen in my life, beat a Titans squad most people thought had a shot to try for the playoffs. The lowly Rams curb stomped everyone's favorite Super Bowl dark horse, the Colts.



All you have to do is take a look around the NFL every week and you'll see a "good" team lose to a "bad" team.

And it's not as though this was some sort of unique week, either. Last week the Jets stunned the Saints while the Dolphins overcame the Bengals in what everyone thought at the time was a major upset (seems a lot more plausible now, eh?). The reeling Redskins beat a Chargers team that was looking like it could contend for a wild card spot.

It is insanely difficult to win 9 consecutive games in the National Football League. That is just a stone cold fact. If it weren't, these types of streaks would happen a lot more often. The NFL features more parity than any other league in the world. This isn't the NCAA, where the talent level between the best team and the worst team is insurmountable. Any given Sunday actually does have meaning.

And really, if it were THAT easy to win 9 straight... you'd think the great and wonderful Broncos could've done it.

Broncos Fan: "Whatever. You've faced all backup quarterbacks and scrubs. You're lucky you haven't had to face a legit offense yet this year. That's the only reason your defense looks good."

Hey, no denying that the Chiefs have had some luck when it comes to quarterbacks. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not as good as Jake Locker. Jeff Tuel is a definite downgrade from what the Bills want to march out at quarterback.

On the flip side... it's an utterly asinine idea that the Chiefs somehow got "lucky" playing against Case Keenum and Jason Campbell as opposed to Matt Schaub and Brandon Weeden (or even Brian Hoyer). Let's really look at this.

Matt Schaub was D-O-N-E. He didn't just have a fork stuck in him, he was half eaten and being boxed up to take home. He was throwing pick-six's like they were going out of style and was actively costing the Texans games. When Keenum played against the Chiefs and looked competent, everyone (and by everyone, I mean the Broncos fan you're arguing with) assumed it was because the Chiefs defense is overrated.

Except then Keenum went out and played even better against the Colts (a team Broncos fans pretend is the 2nd best in the NFL), then very well against a Cardinals defense everyone acknowledges is very tough. So much for that "you've been saved by backup quarterbacks" theory when it comes to the Texans. Keenum playing made it harder, not easier.

What about Campbell? Dude's terrible, right? Except no one, literally NO ONE will say Weeden would've been tougher than Campbell. People try and argue Hoyer would be tougher, but that's just crazy. Hoyer looked solid in exactly one game this season (against the Bengals). Beyond that he had a game against the Vikings where he took as much off the table as he put on it (3 INT's to go along with 3 TD's) and a few snaps against the Bills.

Jason Campbell, in the meantime, played a solid game against the Chiefs and then absolutely shredded the Ravens. Sorry, we didn't "luck out" there at all. We got unlucky.

Finally, is everyone seriously forgetting about the Chiefs defense holding offenses led by Tony Romo, Mike Vick, and Eli Manning to under 17 points? Please. Don't act like the Chiefs have only played 3rd string quarterbacks. It's just plain wrong, and makes you look like you don't bother to really look beyond box score analysis.

Broncos Fan: "Fine, but what about your rushing defense. Worst in the league! I knew you guys sucked!"

Since I just mentioned box score analysis, this seemed like a good one to bring up. This is a perfect time to say, "you haven't watched many of the games this year, have you?" Since they're making this argument, the answer will inevitably either be "only the Eagles and Bills games," or "I've seen them all, twice!" (the second one, by the way, is a bald faced lie people say to act like they know what they're talking about).




Chiefs run D has sprung a leak

Should any Chiefs fan be a little concerned about the run defense. Sure. Is it even close to as bad as that 5.0 stat? Nope. We've had success stopping the run in every game we've played in but two: the Eagles and the Bills. I'll give you the Eagles; Mike Vick and LeSean McCoy ran all over us.

But the Bills game? Anyone watching that saw the missed tackles, the failures to wrap up, and the blown assignments that just screamed "our head isn't in this one!" Our defense picked the worst week to decide to put in a halfway effort for much of the day, because C.J. Spiller and Fred Jackson are both seriously good running backs. And so they made us pay.

Our run defense held up against a healthy DeMarco Murray and David Wilson (both excellent players who are very dangerous when healthy). It did just fine against a tough Houston OL and Ben Tate, busting his ribs in the process (and don't say Arian Foster would've tore the Chiefs up. He had 4 carries for 11 yards when he exited the game). Anyone who bothers to watch the games can see our run defense can get the job done. It's an argument for the lazy to claim the Chiefs run defense "struggles" based on two awful games.

And beyond all that, even in the absolute worst two games, the Chiefs defense got it done when it was time to put the game away. If either Philly or Buffalo had been able to keep running the ball with success against our defense, we lose those games. But we didn't. Because they couldn't.

Broncos Fan: "Chiefs defense is still overrated. The Broncos offense is going to eat them alive with PFM!"

Hey, that very well may be. Who knows what the future holds? But ask your Broncos fan friend if he isn't just a LITTLE nervous based on a few simple facts...

1) The Broncos offense has struggled a bit (relatively speaking) when teams have moved to physical press man coverage. This happens to be exactly what the Chiefs are best at.

2) The Broncos replacement left tackle, Chris Clark, has definitely struggled against top tier competition. Tamba Hali is rushing the passer as well as or better than anyone in the league. Including Robert Mathis, who basically carved Clark up and ate him like a Christmas ham on national television.

3) The Chiefs pass rush has struggled most with quarterbacks who get out of the pocket and run around. Peyton Manning is a statue.

4) The Broncos offense just did this in 4 straight drives in the 2nd half against a Chargers defense that is missing its best pass rusher and is very weak in the secondary...

2 plays, -9 yards (fumble)

6 plays, 15 yards (punt)

3 plays, 6 yards (punt)

7 plays, 22 yards (punt)

Tell me the Broncos aren't thinking about those 4 things. They absolutely are, especially that number 1. And remember, putting up 28 on the Chargers is like putting up 3 against the Chiefs (via my super special math formula. And no, I can't reveal it).

Broncos Fan: "Whatever, even if you manage to hold our awesome offense to 28 points, there's no way you guys will score that much. Your offense sux, bro!"

Finally, an argument with some merit! Of course, your Broncos fan friend is going to overstate it by making it sound as though we're the... well, 2012 Chiefs. And that's just not true.

As of right now (these stats are going to change when the tallies from Week 10 are in, but I'm not waiting!), the Chiefs rank 17th in the NFL in scoring at 23.9 PPG. They're less than 2 points a game out of the top 10, for what that's worth.

And yes, I'm aware that includes defense and special teams. I guess my question is... so? A defense that forces costly mistakes and takes advantage of them is a skill, and one that is a threat to put points on the board at any time (especially against turnover prone teams. Say, aren't the Broncos turnover prone?). A dangerous return game is a skill.

The Chiefs, as an offense, have definitely been relatively disappointing this year. But at the end of the day, they've come through in the clutch when we desperately needed points. Since your friend is a Broncos fan, they probably didn't actually watch the Chiefs games and see...

... the 80-yard TD drive against the Cowboys in the 3rd quarter to regain the lead.

... the clock-killing 8 minute FG drive from our own goal line to reclaim momentum and basically ice the game against the Eagles.



...in the absolute worst moments, when it's been ESSENTIAL to get points on the board, the Chiefs offense has delivered.

... the 64 yard TD drive against the Titans in the 4th quarter to get the lead back from down 4.

... the 97 yard TD drive in the 2nd quarter to prop up the defense while Case Keenum was doing his best Joe Montana impression.

... the 75 yard TD drive in the 2nd quarter to bump the lead against the Browns to two scores.

.... the clock-chewing FG drive against the Bills to make it a two score game with roughly 2 minutes to go, again effectively icing the game.

The Chiefs offense hasn't been pretty, and it sure hasn't done enough to make the wins comfortable. But in the absolute worst moments, when it's been ESSENTIAL to get points on the board, the Chiefs offense has delivered.

Does that mean the offense isn't a concern? Nope. But it sure pushes back against the idea that it's some kind of crazy anchor weighing us down.

That should about cover it for at least one conversation. But I'll leave you with a few quick hitters.

If they say their defense is going to be way better with Champ Bailey back...

Tell them you hope Champ plays. Dude has been playing awful when he's been on the field this year, yet Denver's coaching staff insists on treating him like it's still 2010. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll end up on Donnie Avery, so we can all watch him get burned within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.

If they say Orlando Franklin will shut down Justin Houston...




5 keys to stopping Denver's offense

Point out that per PFF, in the 3 games Houston has played significant snaps against Franklin as a pass rusher, he's got 4 sacks, QB hit, and 4 QB hurries. And this was before Sutton and his own growth had him at the level he's at now. Could happen, but doesn't seem likely.

If they say Manny Ramirez will hold Dontari Poe down on his own...

Ask them to kindly watch some film from the Browns and Texans games, where Poe couldn't be contained by two of the best centers in the league in Alex Mack and Chris Myers. Then PRAY the Broncos decide to leave Ramirez alone against Poe.

There are a million more arguments to be had, but this should leave you with plenty of ammunition in the upcoming interweb wars. Here's hoping for a great game Sunday, and some good clean smack talk between now and then.

Oh wait, one more thing!

If they say "we're the best closing team in football" or something similar (something I've heard a lot from Broncos fans)...

The Chiefs have literally not been outscored in the 4th quarter once this year. It hasn't happened. Out defense has given up 17 points total in the 4th quarter through 9 games. And before they holler about our offense, point out our offense has scored 70 4th quarter points. Yep, that's 70-17, without a single time being outscored in the 4th (like the Broncos have been... twice).

The best closing team in the NFL resides in Kansas City. Should be a great game.

Agreed - some people have the attention span of a gnat

I think its going to be a battle. I also think its going be low scoring, but I am still looking at the tea leaves.

I tried reading earlier. Just way too much, and I really don't care about arguing with Bronco fans anyway. All arguments will be settled in six days.

It's not that hard to read when you read it on the Arrowhead Pride site vs reading it on this thread.

Read it, full of the awesome.

Read it. Reading level upgraded to grade 6.

Oddly enough the re-reads are having the same effect on me as a little blue pill...

good read.

For one year, I worked as a web designer at a newspaper. This paper, which we'll call The Daily News, was in a little logging town, which we'll call Bumpkinville, about 40 miles north of the town I live in. The drive was mostly a stretch of 70 MPH freeway, so my commute was only about 35 minutes each way. Now, driving to Bumpkinville was like driving through a time machine that took you back 40 years. So it was a lot like the 50's there, minus the good parts. Remember the movie "Pleasantville"? Well, this was Unpleasantville.

Bumpkinville, being a logging town, had paper mills. Four of them. So the entire town always smelled like an old person's armpit. Therefore, anyone with any ambition or brains tended to get the hell out of there, meaning the city was basically made up of retired people, most of them nearly deaf from working in the mills for years without ear protection, and uneducated idiots just too stupid for life in the big city 50 miles to the south.

I was hired as part of the three-person Internet Department at the paper. It became clear early on that my boss, Kirk, knew nothing about the Internet. He had been the paper's owner's son's best friend all through school, and after stints as a Marine, a firefighter, and a financial controller for a southern California airport, Kirk wanted to move back to Bumpkinville. The owner's son offered him a job as Online Manager despite Kirk's complete ignorance of the Internet. After all, the owner's son was here on a free ride, so why not get his best buddy in line for the gravy train?

However, Kirk had one skill, sort of: The gift of bullshit. He could make the yokels actually believe that he knew what he was doing, despite much evidence to the contrary. He could lie all day long without stopping to take a breath. When he hired me, he told me that 200 people worked there. I found out later it was more like 110. One day, I asked him why the Advertising Department was still stuck with Photoshop version 4.0 on their machines while our department had 5.0. He went into a big speech about he really took care of things in our department, while the other departments were lax in this area. A few minutes later, I realized I had gotten it backwards. Advertising had 5.0, and we only had 4.0. When I told him, he gave me a blank stare, which is what he always did when he got caught in a big lie, which was often.

The other person in our department was a bright young girl named Karen. Being bright meant that she was overqualified for nearly any job in Bumpkinville, including this one, which was running an Internet Service Provider with 1800 customers. Since we were actually just an agent for a real ISP in the big city named Transport, and Transport was an incredibly unreliable provider, she spent most of the day on the phone with angry bumpkins. But she did her job well, and even went well beyond the call of duty at times.

Once, Karen agreed to represent our newspaper at a local "Safety Fair", manning a booth from 9 AM to 1 PM on a Saturday. Kirk was supposed to relieve her at 1 PM. He never showed up, so she was forced to stay there until the fair ended at 4 PM. When she asked Kirk what happened, he said, "Well, I looked at my watch and it was 1:30, and I figured you were out of there by then, so I didn't bother." This was typical for Kirk, an irresponsible, lying piece of human garbage with rich parents, who had basically spent his whole life avoiding education and actual work. I remember he always spent Thursday afternoons golfing with the owner's son before the new management took over.

Kirk was full of ignorant ideas befitting someone born and raised in Bumpkinville. At one point, he decided that we were going to "sell" our older, archived newspaper articles to the locals, like the LA Times does. He had me copy all the web pages relating to this from the LA Times website, changing the name of the newspaper to make it our own. He honestly believed the yokels would be willing to pay for past articles from our little turdtown newspaper. Naturally, that idea sank like a stone.

And it's just as well, because the paper never did get a secure server running to deal with e-commerce transactions anyway, despite Kirk always telling the customers that it was forthcoming. The Information Systems department at the paper was, of course, staffed by a bumpkin too.

Jay, an ugly, zit-covered loser from the IS department, had his own problems. Born and raised in Bumpkinville, Jay had made only one attempt to get out of town, which failed miserably. He was quite an accomplished computer geek, and a web-related company in the big city hired him. He lasted less than a day, returning to Bumpkinville in the afternoon and begging for his old job back.

Jay was one of only two people in the IS department and before long the other person left, making almost everyone in the company dependent upon Jay for computer support. He used this "power" to bestow favors on people who pretended to like him, while putting off those who refused to pretend. Naturally, I was in the latter group. One day, I had trouble with a Jaz drive in my computer at home. I removed it and needed to test it on a computer with a SCSI bus. I asked for Jay's help, but he told me he didn't have the time. I knew this would take all of about 5 minutes. After Jay dropped by our office later that day to talk to Karen about nothing in particular, and hanging out for 20 minutes or so, I began to understand what a lying little asswipe he was. So, later on, with Jay about 40 feet away in another department, I popped the top of my own computer and did all the testing myself, right behind his back. He never found out. Which was a good thing, because Jay was weirdly possessive about all the computers, and he would have freaked out. He considered himself my boss, which he wasn't, but he was such an incredible kiss-up to Kirk that he could get away with anything.

Jay had a complete lack of social skills. There was this really creepy way he'd get all giddy and excited every time he was around Kirk. You expected him to go down on Kirk at any moment, and he'd laugh out loud with this mulish braying every time Kirk said anything even halfway funny. This, combined with he and Kirk going out for long lunches together a lot, made a lot of people think he was queer. No wonder he lasted less than half a day in the big city. Here at The Daily News, he was hot shit. Once outside the building, however, he was just another lonely zit-faced freak. It was hard to believe that he had been married at one time, until you found out that he had impregnated his bride first. Not long before I started working there, she left him for some German guy she had met on the web but never met in real life, dropping off their daughter at Jay's mother's house and just disappearing for a while. I don't blame her. A judge, apparently recognizing Jay's many social handicaps, granted custody to Jay's ex-wife despite this.

Now, like all ugly losers who had been made shunned by nearly everyone while growing up, Jay had fantasies of being a policeman. When the paper was bought out by a conglomerate shortly after I was hired, they put up a firewall which was programmed to block any and all websites unsuitable for anyone under 18. This cut everyone in the building off from about a quarter of the web. I pointed this out to Kirk, and he laughed it off. No lazy little shit on a free ride like Kirk was going to make any waves with the new management. That was when I started looking for a new job. Eventually, reporters in the newsroom got the ban lifted by pointing out that they couldn't do much research with a huge chunk of the web off limits. The new management, which owned 11 other newspapers and should have known better, was amazingly stupid to have ever tried this in the first place.

This bothered Jay immensely. He hated the idea of not being able to control what his co-workers could or couldn't see on the internet. But the new management still had a partial firewall in place, sort of a "Net Nanny" that could log when one of their workers went to certain types of sites. They had it set to notify Jay whenever someone went to an adult site on their computer. Now, the program was capable of informing on all kinds of sites -- entertainment sites, racist sites, religious sites, gambling sites -- but the management chose only to inform on adult sites. I remember Jay showing me the two dozen or so types of sites that could be selected, and bitterly informing me that if it were up to him, they would ALL be checked. What a voyeuristic, ignorant freak. After all, it didn't affect Jay in any way where anyone surfed to on the web. He just loved the idea of playing web cop. It was an opportunity to get back at a world that made fun of him throughout his childhood. He'll make a good Republican someday.

One day, Jay and Kirk called me into their office to have a talk with me. I had visited one of the banned sites! Horrors! Now, "having a talk" with me was basically their only recourse. Firing me meant I could collect unemployment, so they were unwilling to do that. So they got together beforehand and made up some stupid story that was supposed to scare me. Jay went on about how at some places, anyone caught visiting a forbidden website was simply marched out of the building between two security guards and never allowed to return, no chance to tell his side of the story, no nothing. Right. It was a lot like two farm-boys telling me that I'd get mugged if I ever dared to venture into the big city. They could tell I wasn't buying it, which I'm sure bugged them to no end.

The thing about Bumpkinville was, it was such an incredibly undesirable place to live, you wondered what the problem was with people who chose to live there. But you didn't wonder for long. Nearly everyone I worked with had some odd quirk or nutty problem that made them unfit for the big city.

There was Kirk, with no work skills whatsoever, an irresponsible human leech. His best friend, the owner's son, left the company after the conglomerate took over, leaving Kirk with no future at the paper, which is a good match for his no skills. Even his wife, born and raised in Bumpkinville, wants to move back to California, showing that she has better sense than Kirk. Kirk is still working at the paper as of this writing although the Online department is supposedly going to be folded into the Marketing department, making him just another salesman instead of a department head. Apparently there's nobody for Kirk to leech off of in California.

There was Jay, who both looked and acted like a weasel, the company's digital Barney Fife. He was working 12 hour days when I left. Hey, why not? After all, at home there's nothing for him to do but pop zits and masturbate.

Their top ad salesman, a really nice and personable fellow named Scott, had this quirk: Whenever he laughed, he'd repeat the last thing he said while he was laughing. This would cause people who had never heard it before to look at each other with an expression on their face that said,"Did you hear that? What the hell is wrong with this guy?" It was just weird, and the type of thing that would make him a social outcast -- except in Bumpkinville.

This sort of thing was not limited to the employees of The Daily News, however; the yokels who signed up for web access were pretty much the same story. A normal looking guy would walk in, and you'd be glad that, finally, someone intelligent-looking was about to sign up with the ISP. Then he'd open his mouth to reveal missing teeth, or a harelip, or he'd express what a relief it was to finally be out of prison. Most of the women over 30 in Bumpkinville had long since given up on trying to look good, and mostly consisted of waddling, obese, stringy-haired hose-monsters with masculine facial features. Often, they would come in to cancel their account because their husband or boyfriend was headed to jail.

Just before I left The Daily News, the Marketing Manager left and was about to be replaced by a 26 year old squirt who's about 5 feet 6 and looks like he's 19. Most of the employees were calling him "Doogie" behind his back before he was even hired, but I saw Doogie walking around with the publisher one day wearing the same suit, which naturally caused me to label him with the moniker "Mini-Me". On my last day there, which was about three days before Mini-Me was to take over a department wherein everyone was much older (and taller) than he was, I saw that a box of business cards had been delivered to his desk. I took one out, crossed out his name and replaced it with the name "Mini-Me", and carefully placed it back into the box.

After nearly a year of employment in Bumpkinville, I finally got out of there. I was the 58th person to leave the company, out of 110 employees, since the new management had taken over 6 months earlier. So desperate was I to leave that I took a job as a temp for an internet start-up named iChristian.com. But that's another Unspeakably Stupid Story. The Chiefs will beat the Broncos.

Oh yeah?

Reading is hard. Can't it be broken down to 140 characters?

Yeah. I guess I could have just said that I don't like the Broncos.

Goodness, The Chiefs beat the Broncos.

Cheufs good. Broncos bad.

this and yes, there are ignorant fans from every team in the nfl...

I thought I too would reply with the mega-OP in the reply!

But seriously, go Chiefs, **** the Broncos!!

Should've been titled "Arguing with an Editor."

I usually ignore long posts like that one but I read the entire thing and would not consider it wasted time at all.

Why do you guys feel this urge to quote long ass posts? JFC

Has to be rico or Anyong

Well, I enjoyed the read, and I am going to use some of this stuff in my debate with Jay Cornegay from LVH Sportsbook on Friday. In fact, it looks like we are going to have a friendly little bet going on as well. Hes a total Donkey loving homer and hes going to bring up all these types of things. I need ammo, if you have more...

Not sure what I want him to do if I win yet...ideas???o:-)

It actually was worth a read but damned if this thread isn't AIDS.

I'll admit that the content of the very long OP was indeed inspiring, I'm not sure I'd bet much either. Not only are we playing in Denver (so our players WILL BE GASSED for half of the 3rd and all of the 4th) due to Low-O2, they do get to make the weak-ass noise that that many homos can manage to muster as they rage for their favorite team to win and cheer phonetically, the zebras have certainly worked with the Donks to formulate a game plan that will keep the league at the top of the TV listings; and we simple shit the bed because of it all when we play there.

So I'm inspired by the facts, but I also know this is Denver, this is the NFL, these are NFL-friendly refs, so I still have a lot of doubt left in my mind...