Dorsey loves the box safeties in this draft
 

@TerezPaylor: One thing to keep in mind about a Berry trade: #Chiefs GM John Dorsey told me Friday that there are a lot of good box safeties in this draft


Well...

That would be classic Chiefs to trade Berry.

I'd be done with this team.

isn't going to happen

I wouldn't be overly upset I mean in the role he's in in my mind it's almost not worth big deniro but then again we only have a few other guys who play with that level of tenacity every down.

Might as well trade Houston too.

I thought Dorsey mentored under Ted Thompson not Allard Baird.

that would be even dumber than drafting eric fisher

Why would this information have to suggest a Berry trade? It is possible and probably more likely that if Dorsey likes the box safeties in this draft and he is able to draft one that they could move Berry to FS where he could use his skills to be more of a playmaker against the passing game.

Hopefully he is getting the Royals management and Chiefs management mixed up.

It all started because of this tweet...

Nick Jacobs ‏@Jacobs71 13h

“@MoNeYMiKe1386: @Jacobs71 Think Chiefs will really trade Berry?” I think they will explore every option to make this team better.

Also this....

Jason McIntyre ‏@jasonrmcintyre 19h

Mort on ESPN's best show (NFL Insiders): Andy Reid likes Brandin Cooks; GM John Dorsey likes bigger WRs. No 2nd rd pick. Tough spot for KC

Have two good box safeties is also a basis for 'big nickel' packages that you see a lot in college ball. It's more effective against the spread offenses that you see now and allows the defense to play the pass without leaving huge mismatches vs the run game.

LMAO

I immediately thought "that sounds like something the Royals would do."

We have a good player? Awesome - don't retain him!

It always amazes me how people believe this pre draft crap.

Posting a thread about it isn't believing it. It's bringing up a football topic to discuss.

Smoke screen

I was referring to the multiple posters seemingly freaking out. In reality though, if we draft a 'box saftey' then CP's obsession of playing Eric at FS would be far more likely than him being traded.

Yep. Same shit every year...:rolleyes:

What an off-season!

Not extending Alex Smith.
Trading Eric Berry (although I can see the logic).
Trading Brandon Flowers.

There is no logic in trading Eric Berry. None. Don't even try to rationalize it.

The only reason for trading a young, uber talented, fan favorite All-Pro safety is because you're too cheap to pay him what he's worth.

And that's the stupidest reason ever and only a shitty franchise would do such a thing.

11 million per for a LB masquerading as a S. I love Eric Berry (no homo) but the fiscal logic is there. For that matter, the logic holds true for Flowers as well. I think it would be a HUGE mistake on both but I can see past the homerism to understand it.

You can get by with average secondary play if you can put pressure on the passer.

IIRC we've covered this ground in another thread somewhere.

Queue "but Denver" posts in 5.4.3.2.1......

Not sure why anyone believes anything they hear from anyone prior to the draft.

Then guess what you do.....

A. Extend him and lower his cap number.
or
B. Move him to FS, where he is capable of playing.

Who gives a sh8t what dorsey likes lol... the way reid turned this offense around was miraculous... does anyone remember the 3 and out days of todd haley?

a) But how much do you save in the long run by extending a guy who's going to demand all pro money to be a rover-safety that doesn't create turnovers

and

b) What happens if it turns out he's better suited to be an in-the box tackler rather than FS?

I pretty much stopped reading right there.

Why do you assume he isn't going to create turnovers as a FS?

You know he won't create turnovers how?

How do you know he cannot play FS? He was a pretty dang good one in college.

I touched on this in another thread but Eric Berry averages just under 3 INTs a season while Earl Thomas averages just under 4. There's not a huge difference between the two as far as forcing turnovers goes..

I'd be willing to bet Thomas capped the market off at $10 a year for safeties. I wouldn't expect Berry to get a dime more than that.

1 FF 3 INT's 2 of which went back for touchdowns and 3.5 sacks. Berry has more QB hurries and sacks than any Safety in the NFL. The guy has all the TE coverage responsibilities, can play up in the box snuffing out the run, can get after the QB. Seems like an all around good football player. Earl Thomas is more superior in the instincts department being the top FS in the NFL, but Berry would be a top 5 FS if given the chance to play the position.

Contracts inflate by the year. I wouldn't be surprised if he got more than Thomas at all, especially if he makes All Pro and has yet another great year AGAIN.

I agree with you 100% here. It's like suggesting trading Charles.

After losing a playoff game with a 28 point lead, any suggestion of losing arguably our best defensive player is nonsense.

We need to add more talent, not get rid of it. There is a reason teams with a good defense get to a Super Bowl, and it wasn't from trading away their defensive talent.

This suggestion must come from someone who started following the chiefs after the vermeil years.

Yup.

Berry is incredibly versatile. It's a gift and a curse. Calling him a "LB masquerading as a S" is just silly.

I was going off Pest's duality.

Either they're going to keep Berry in his current role, which -I'll Q myself here (and aggravate a ****ton of posters here)- isn't worth extending him if he's just going to be a box safety in my opinion, OR they move him to FS which at least one poster has suggested will happen based off of the scheme Sutton used in the playoff game.

If they're rolling with the first option of keeping him as a rover then I'd say only re-sign him if he's willing to be paid less than his All Pro and PB resume suggests.

If they're going with the second, then you have to believe drafting yet another safety is in the cards to either backup Berry in the event he's not able to easily transition to the free, to find a guy able to replace Berry's role from 2010-2013 in case Hussain Abdullah isn't able to, or to hedge both of the aforementioned options as well as replace Sanders Commings if he's permanently broken.

You're right. I was posting under the assumption that we extend him sometime before his contract is up.

If we wait until his contract expires and he adds another couple All-Pro seasons with the cap exploding, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get more than 10 a year.

One thing that made me laugh during Berry's press conference on the Chiefs website, Eric talking about Kendrick Lewis making all the adjustments and getting players into position. For a guy getting people into a position, he sure had one hell of a time getting himself into position to play a 2 deep failing to cover deeper than the deepest time and time again. ROFL

Who in the heck would want to get reminded how stupid this is every game?

This was probably started by Peyton manning or Phyllis rivers.

I agree with this.

Posters at this forum sometimes forget how good some of our players really are and take them for granted.

You can't just say, "Teams don't need a great secondary, just get an elite Pass rush and an avg secondary".

Well that's a fine in theory and all that....but uh....where exactly are we going to get this elite Passrush? Look how long it took the Chiefs to get the passrushers they have now, and even then, they're still not god enough to get by without a good secondary.

Pass Rushers don't grow on trees, and if you don't have a great passrush, then you had better have a damn good secondary.

Mort is full of shit. Is that why the Dorsey era Packers draft guys like Greg Jennings and Randall Cobb, both 5'10" receivers taken in the 2nd round?

Losing the huge lead makes more sense now, doesn't it? Oof.

All kidding aside, Lewis was the scapegoat for that loss. He deserved the plate of doodoo he ate on here. In my mind, Sutton was as much to blame.

Unfortunately we have neither.

I agree, Sutton should take the heat for that loss.

And unloading Berry doesn't make the situation better.

Incorrect. Our three main problems last year were the following:

1. A FS who didn't fit the defensive scheme.
2. A lack of depth behind our current starters.
3. A DC that refused to rotate in what depth we did have or make changes to the gameplan when failing.

Houston and Hali are damn fine at what they do and DJ is a top 5 ILB in this league. Smith, Cooper and Flowers are just fine at CB when they aren't required to play 10 yards off of the WRs with no FS help. Sutton needs to pull his head out of his ass and start rotating in some of the depth we do have or Poe won't be able to play past his first contract.

I have to disagree with every poster on here who is saying there is no way we should trade Eric Berry. It's just myopic.

1. If Berry wants north of Earl Thomas' salary;
2. If Berry is going to be kept in the box;
3. If Berry doesn't want to extend, because Pioli has already said he'll make him the highest paid safety in Atlanta (his hometown);
4. If we can replace 90% of his production with 20% of his salary;
5. If we can get good draft picks;

Then **** you. I'm trading him in a heartbeat. Shit, if just a combination of a couple of those things are true, or if just number 3 is true... then you have to trade him. Period. Or you'll just watch him walk away in one year for nothing.

Why wasn't DJ calling the plays for the defense anyway?

Paylor should be given no more weight than Teicher

Wait, what?

Why in the world would a player who's in his prime and widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, at his position re-sign for less than what his All Pro/PB resume suggests? That is disrespectful towards the player and not grounded in reality whatsoever.

And why do people keep calling him "An in the Box Safety"? That's so ignorant. Just because he's great at playing in the box that doesn't mean he's only an in the box safety.

You guys are devaluing him far too much because you're treating his role as if he were Bernard Pollard when that couldn't be further from the truth. He's not All Pro because he's "Just an in the box safety".

He's All Pro not only because he is a phenomenal tackler @ 210lbs, but also because he has the Range to play deep coverage, he has tremendous ball skills and is a threat to take any INT to the house, which he has displayed over and over again, he can blitz the QB and get the sacks, he can cover TE's, he brings a swagger to the defense and read and diagnose plays.

You're not paying him top coin because he's a great in the box safety, you're paying him top coin because he can do anything and everything you ask him to do very, very well. You're paying him for his versatility and ability to adapt to any scheme and any role he's required to play.

You don't simply let players like that walk.

I guess it would depend on what you got in return. That's the unknown.

Dallas unloading Walker looked pretty bad at the time. Before you kill me, I understand Berry wouldn't fetch what Walker did. Just a crazy example.

But, I do agree. Trading Eric Berry and Brandon Flowers do not make the defense any better in the short term.

This is the only thing I'm concerned about if we are indeed considering trading Berry. And if that's the case, the amount of compensation in draft picks we'd need to receive to make the deal worth it for us is going to be way too steep of a price for any team who wants to trade for him.

I'm not expecting a Jared Allen deal or anything, but we'd AT LEAST need an extra 1st rounder for Berry. And no team is going to pay that.

It's the same shit with the people who want to trade Bowe, even though they don't realize it would be cap suicide. If it weren't cap suicide, we'd probably need to see a 2nd and an extra midround pick, or perhaps even a low 1st rounder. And again, no team is going to pay that. So we may as well keep both players.

If, If, If.

That's a shit load of "If's".

Again, you're assuming players like Berry are just replaceable.

Quick question: How many Eric Berry's have you ever seen on the Chiefs roster? EVER? Hell, how many Eric Berry's have you ever seen in our Division, let alone just the Chiefs? How many Bernard Pollard's, Greg Wesley's and Mike Brown's did we have to through to get just ONE Eric Berry? You're taking the player for granted and it's silly.

And I got news for you, Eric Berry will be the highest Paid safety in the league. Contracts increase by the year and it's been shown already that Berry has been every bit as productive as Thomas has been while offering much more versatility.

Eric Berry is getting paid by someone, and deservedly so. He will be the highest paid safety in the league barring a significant injury this upcoming season.

I'd rather he be a highly paid, All Pro CHIEF, rather than a highly paid, All Pro -Something else.

Hali and DJ are aging out. Houston is hitting his prime and is going to need to be paid. Alex Smith needs to be paid. With a ton of scratch on the books in Berry, Flowers, and Hali already, where is the money coming from? Sometimes you have to pick your poison and make tough choices. Overpay for a S and let others walk? or make the tough call for the betterment of the team in the long run?

Hali and Flowers are gone after this season. There's your money right there.

Hali and Flowers are likely cap casualties after this season. Berry, Poe and Houston are the foundation of this team and deserve to be paid accordingly.

Trade Berry and Flowers

**** it, lets trade Houston and Charles too. And Poe.

:shake: I can't believe some people would actually be ok let alone prefer to trade Berry. He's one of the best run defenders at the position, above average in coverage, and one of the best blitzing safeties in the league. Not to mention his leadership and passion for the game.

I thought the general idea was to keep the guys you have that are good and replace the guys who suck. Not have a fire sale and start over.

Unless they become too good and consequently have to pay them accordingly. At that point, you have to ditch them.

I swear, some people have been watching the Royals for far too long.

The Chiefs aren't suppose to be a farm team!

Based on this thread and the Brandon Flowers thread, I'm very confused. It seems we should be trading Berry and retaining Flowers?

Flowers sucks and we won't be able to re-sign Berry.
Better to get something for someone than nothing at all when they leave in free agency.

Not exactly. It's simply wrong to think that any situation in which Eric Berry is not a Chief in 2016 is an epic failure. That "shit load of ifs" are all INCREDIBLY POSSIBLE and more than one is INCREDIBLY LIKELY.

It sounds like you're saying they have to keep Berry no matter what, and if so... that is just foolish. It's like saying you have to draft a QB no matter what or you have to sign a free agent tackle no matter what or you have to do anything anywhere at anytime no matter what.

"No matter what" thinking is how Joe Flacco gets 120 million.

We got Charles in the first place because we traded a player the GM didn't think was worth his contract.

Because said player had off the field issues and was one DUI away from a year long suspension. I wasn't aware that Berry was an alcoholic.

Why do you assume they won't be able to resign Berry?

Oh **** that. Said player had quit drinking entirely, and that was a bullshit excuse to lowball him. Said player NEVER HAD ANOTHER INCIDENT and just continued to produce at an elite level.

But you're right - super smart and totally valid.

I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

It's going to be difficult.

Berry was drafted in the old system and has been overpaid his entire career.

He is going to expect to be overpaid again

Romeo should be repeatedly kicked in the nuts for putting Berry at SS.

A successful move to FS would make Berry's contract a better fit.

You have presented a situation that makes Berry expendable. Just a bunch of "If's". The only thing that can make Berry expendable is if his production were replaceable, which is a long shot.

I don't want to create a hole in the roster and lose one of the best players in the NFL simply because he costs too much.

If Berry wants north of Earl Thomas' salary;
****Money shouldn't make a great player expendable. You drafted him to be great, now you need to pay him. What exactly were the Chiefs hoping for? That he'd suck so they wouldn't have to pay him?

If Berry is going to be kept in the box;
****Berry isn't even kept in the box NOW. Again, you're diminishing his value.

If Berry doesn't want to extend, because Pioli has already said he'll make him the highest paid safety in Atlanta (his hometown);
****Huh? If Pioli said that, then that's tampering and the Chiefs have some picks on the way via ATL. Not that it should surprise anyone, Berry will be the highest paid safety.

If we can replace 90% of his production with 20% of his salary;
****Yeah good luck with that. He's an All Pro. They don't grow on trees and the odds of bringing in some Rook to immediately replace him is incredibly low.

If we can get good draft picks;
****Why? So we can just release them when their contract is up?


All i hear is people wanting premium players but don't want to pay the Premium price for them. Gee, i can't wait to have this conversation about Houston next year. And then Poe the following year.

This is exactly why i can't stand the MLB. Imma go ahead and call it "Royals Syndrome". Draft a player, develop him and simply give him up to a large market team that will pay for his services because he's too expensive to play for you.

**** that.

Pure ****ing speculation.

Eric Berry....not good enough for Chiefs fans






can't make this shit up

Who said it was Valid?

I stated a legit off the field concern at the time. I didn't say i agreed with it. You're comparing apples to oranges. Berry hasn't given the Chiefs a single reason to suggest he won't continue to perform. Allen was fresh off a suspension and was one DUI away from a year long vacation...and IIRC, he had just opened a freaking bar. Allen had legit concerns when Berry does not.

Right?

It's unreal.

Again, when was the last time the Chiefs had a Safety of his caliber? And we FINALLY get one and just want to dump him because he's going to be expensive to retain....WTF?

If that's the case, then why even draft good players?

Why not just field a team of marginal players who will never be good enough to demand a premium 2nd contract?

Sounds like a winning plan to me.

Chiefs fans - Expect All-Pro player to sign a team friendly deal.....and when he doesn't....place all hopes on a rookie coming in and producing the same for pennies on the dollar.

Rinse and repeat.

can we trade Sutton?

And IF that rookie gets good, release him because he's too expensive to retain.

/Royals Syndrome.

long weird tradition of fans hating on their best players, and absolutely freaking out when said players expect to get paid

"he wants $100000000000...I know it!".../commentary on dwayne bowe, albert, berry, the next guy

sure, but an educated one.

All players want to maximize their salary and Berry is not going to want to take a pay cut just because he is a Strong instead of a Free safety. He will say that he is an impact player and should be paid like a top 5 safety regardless of position.

Chiefs have a few choices

1. pay a top SS like a top FS
2. move Berry to FS and risk an adjustment period and/or it not working out
3. Offer Berry top SS money and let him walk if he doesn't take it


after the Fisher and Albert draft/replace situation, i could see them letting Berry walk or trading him.