Put Dorsey's Head On The Chopping Block
 

It is very, very early in John Dorsey's tenure here, but unless the talent he's acquired magically turns it around by midpoint of the season, I believe we should be shopping for a new GM by the end of the season.

Now, this is a big deal (I would like to think), coming from me. I was among the last defenders on this site of Scott Pioli, and I still think his drafting record here was strong. I believe in the process, in giving GMs extreme leeway and time in shuffling the roster and building a team full of the kind of guys we want.

But Dorsey came in with a plum opportunity. He had the core of a team already built for him (minus the one critical position), the #1 pick in the draft, and a ridiculous amount of free agency cap room to spend, spend, spend.

With these incredible gifts given to him, gifts that any new GM would kill for (rather than the shit sandwich a new GM would get in 2015...), Dorsey took the absolute worst path.

He sacrificed the future of the franchise for a quick playoff run, completely overpaying in offseason talent, hamstringing our budget for 2014 and 2015 so that we let a full quarter of our team's starters walk, including two Pro Bowlers, with zero ability to replace any of the departing talent effectively (with the sole exception of replacing Kendrick Lewis with Husain Abdullah, but even that was a Plan B after Mr. Glass Commings is out for another year).

We were unable to retain Brandon Albert, Brandon Flowers, Ryan Succop, Tyson Jackson, Dexter McCulster, Jon Asamoah and Geoff Schwartz because we had to have Mike DeVito, Chase Daniel, Dunta Robinson, Sean Smith, Donnie Avery, and Anthony Fasano. That is a complete loss on every level, and again, it happened because Dorsey acted like a teenager after receiving his first paycheck rather than the patient, methodical personnel guru he was alleged to be.

The Alex Smith trade was defensible on its own terms, I believe. (We overpayed with the two 2nds, but we overpayed for Bowe and Colquitt, and both of those were defensible as well, as the team was seriously ****ed without the player in question.) But coupled with the Chase Daniel acquisition and this team's continued chickenshit behavior regarding the QB position in the draft, and it once again showed a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to win in a league being skewed further and further away from the Alex Smiths and Matt Cassels of the world. In a league that's continually changing, Dorsey, Reid and Alex Smith are keeping the team stagnant.

Well, less than stagnant, really. The biggest crime of the young John Dorsey era has been the drafting, which has been horrific. It's every bit as obsessed with 40 times and measurables and ignorant of on field performance as the Al Davis regime used to be. We burned the #1 overall pick on a likely bust at tackle. We burned our first this year on a passrusher that isn't helping us win. We burned our third this year on a corner that was worse than Vince Agnew this preseason. And none of our low-round picks are working out, up to and including our UDFAs, where GMs need to distinguish themselves. It's insane to think that Scott Pioli had a better record with UDFAs, which is saying something considering that Pioli only hit on one his entire time here.

I do a ton of mock drafts throughout the year, most of them terrible, but all of them viscerally enjoyable for me to postulate. It's lost a lot of its luster this year, even as we are entering a year with 11 draft picks, because projecting the projects and boom/likely-bust players that Dorsey falls in love with makes the exercise depressing. We end up with a super-young team full of talent that can't see the field, and likely rarely ever will.

I'm willing to change my tune, as I always am, if some of this plan looks to be solid for the future, and not just for the present, by the middle of the season. But it would have to be a dramatic shift for me to feel that way.

That said, we can still end up in a good position here. The Alex Smith contract, which ironically is the best contract Dorsey has signed here, makes Smith expendable if a new GM is brought in at the end of the year. If Andy Reid still wants Alex Smith after a 4-12 season, fire him too. If Andy Reid can't get along with the new GM, fire him. If Andy Reid can't call a winning gameplan in 2015, fire him.

This front office refused to utilize their patience when constructing this roster. In the process, they've lost mine.

Scott Pioli had four drafts. How many average starters did he acquire with those 30-odd picks that are still with the team?

Houston, Berry, Poe, and.......and......?

Strong record, brah.

We've had this exact discussion twice. When either of us have anything new to say, I'm happy to have it again.

We were "absolutely f&&&cked" without Dustin Colquitt?

I like you Direckshun and typically enjoy your posts. But, Dorsey and Reid aren't going anywhere. Get over it, it's a pipe dream.

You seen mice?

It's a ****ing terrible draft record. Period.

You're spot ****ing on. Top to bottom.

I think that if Chiefsplanet had it's way, we'd end up firing everyone from the GM down to the hot dog vendors about every other year.

At what point do we turn our frustrations towards the Chunt? I think this goes above Reid and Dorsey. Has Chunt even made a decent hire since his dad passed away?

I don't think Dorsey will be fired. You're right - he should absolutely have to earn his job THIS year, but I just think Hunt wants continuity. Dorsey and Reid will be retained. It's really tough... If we are in a position to draft a QB this year, and don't... I don't think I will be able to watch the Chiefs anymore.

Most likely Alex Smith will be retained, although I'm starting to think the best thing that could happen for this team is him suffering a season-ending injury. I don't hate Alex Smith like a lot of people, but I also recognize that he is never going to be one of our best players.

Smith's contract can be unloaded this offseason, but I don't think there's any way that happens unless he gets injured. I don't want to hope for someone getting injured, but...

We might need Chase Daniel to go lose 14 games for us so we can draft Mariota. You want to see hope in a franchise? You want to see season ticket sales SURGE?

Draft a ****ing QB.

You've said that both times. I've rebutted both times.

I fail to see what going through the exercise a third time accomplishes.

Scott pioli was not a good drafter in any way shape or form. He had terrible drafts.

While Dorsey hasn't been much better, so far it would seem, there is no defending Fat Scott at all in any way.

this is the first time I have ever 100 percent agreed with one of your threads/opinions.

i usually hate your side of Chiefs football but this is a topic with too many facts that makes it hard to counter

LMAO

Pioli's drafts.


2009
Tyson Jackson
Alex Magee
Donald Washington
Colin Brown
Quinten Lawrence
Javarris Williams
Jake O'Connell
Ryan Succop

2010
Eric Berry*
Dexter McCluster
Javier Arenas
Jon Asamoah
Tony Moeaki
Kendrick Lewis
Cameron Sheffield

2011
Jonathan Baldwin
Rodney Hudson
Justin Houston*
Allen Bailey
Jalil Brown
Ricky Stanzi
Gabe Miller
Jerrell Powe
Shane Bannon

2012
Dontari Poe*
Jeff Allen
Donald Stephenson*
Devon Wylie
DeQuan Menzie
Cyrus Gray
Jerome Long
Junior Hemingway

* - denotes player who ever became worth a squirt in the NFL.

I think Pioli proved that Clark will give a GM an absolute minimum of 4 full years. Maybe if the Chiefs went 0-16 this year and next it would be enough. Outside of that, we're stuck with these guys.

And for me Dorsey/Reid are a package deal. Reid demanded Alex Smith. Their fates should be the same.

http://treasure.diylol.com/uploads/p...ars-05e041.jpg

Jesus, you can almost set your watch to this guy.

It sucks to think we're no better than the Raiders when it comes to stability.

I agree with you about Dorsey being fired but it is not going to happen.

I am worried that this upcoming draft we will have 15 picks and he will **** them all up and screw this team for a decade, that is how poor of a drafter he has been.

Clark needs to get on his knees and beg Bill Kuharich to come back

All of his draft picks are picked looking forward 2-3 years.

The dumbest shit was the big spending spree last year just to get fans back. They seem to have realized now that the whole roster needed a complete overhaul.

This time, it needs to start with a new QB. Smith is a fine placeholder to take all the beatings while we get the roster turned over. Sucks for him, but he's being paid well for it.

Build the defense around Poe, Houston, Berry and the young players drafted, draft a QB early next year to sit for a bit, go to the 4-3 in the offseason and sign suh to play next to Poe.

He hasn't hit any immediate impact players in the draft, but last years draft class after a year seems to be developing decently, with Kelce, Fisher, Davis and cooper.

It shouldn't be as hard of a decision for Hunt because the HC and GM are separate from each other now. Dorsey ****ing up? Get rid of him. Reid not working out? Find someone else.

Direck on Obama: "he needs more time. He inherited a terrible situation"

Direck on Dorsey: "he doesn't need more time. One year is enough to turn around a terrible situation"

In a passing league, to have an Oline that can't pass protect, a bottom of the league WR corp, a bottom of the league secondary, and a middle of the road QB says everything I need to know about Dorsey.

It's thoughts like this why I don't know that chiefs fans will ever be able to handle a young QB that isn't luck from day 1.

The core everyone loves here, their chance of doing anything was done with Pioli leaving. That time has passed. It's time to focus an develop the new young core for the next wave.

This team has already been screwed up for a decade.

I'm also pretty sure last years "spending spree" etc came from ownership to get back to respectability ASAP.

By fans....you mean the dipshits that worry more about tailgating and having fun at Arrowhead....right?

That and patience.

Of course it did. And there were plenty of people out there warning the fans that it was doomed if the intent was to build a championship contender. Of course, that was never the case, because Hunt doesn't care about championships, he wants a filled stadium and he can get that with 7-9. Just get the team to purgatory and the saps will come.

That's why the problem isn't John Dorsey, Scott Pioli, Matt Cassel, Carl Peterson, or Alex Smith. The problem is, and for 40 years has been, the Hunt family. Until they sell the team (never going to happen) or change their priorities (lawl) the team will wade in a sea of mediocrity.

It's ridiculous for you to say Pioli drafted well and then turn around and say it's time to fire Dorsey because of his drafts. Pioli's picks have been in the league long enough to prove that the majority of them are steaming piles of donkey shit. Dorsey's picks haven't completed 2 seasons yet. Here are Dorsey's picks so far.

2013
Fisher--Starting at LT and he has struggled. He played better than I expected on Sunday.
Kelce--Looks to have the potential to be a good starting TE.
Knile Davis--showed in limited time last season that he is adequate when called upon.
Nico--bad pick. He has zero instincts for the game.
Commings--can't stay healthy. Bad pick.
Eric Kush--future starter on the OL. Has looked good in limited action.
Braden Wilson--bad pick.
Catapano--Lot of excitement over this player, but he hasn't shown anything yet. Jury is out.

2014
Dee Ford--Lightning fast first step. Eventual successor to Hali.
Phillip Gaines--Looked lost in the preseason, but has press cover skills.
D'Anthony Thomas--Great return man with better skills than McCluster.
Aaron Murray--At one time was touted as a first round pick. Had good and bad moments in preseason.
Zach Fulton--Starter at guard and looks outmatched.
Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff--Complete project.

3 players from his first draft are playing significant minutes with 2 more that look like they could be regular contributors in the future. That kind of draft isn't exceptional, but it is pretty standard for the majority of GMs. Definitely not worthy of a "fire his ass" thread during his second season.

Claiming that you offered a rebuttal is not the same as actually presenting a rebuttal. If Pioli's draft record was as solid as you claim, you should have little difficulty finding 20 teams over the same period with worse records.

You can't and you won't because there aren't 20 teams with worse draft records. If there were, this would be AFL ****ing II

I think that's pretty spot on.

Which is why the whole fire Dorsey talk is pretty asisnine. They did this offseason what should have happened last year.

C'mon we need to fire front office and coaches every 17 reg season games til we win a SB. It's gotta work!!

:bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo::bravo:

The primary problem right now is more on coaching, not John Dorsey.

Andy Reid is the reason we got Alex and gave up 2 2nd rd picks. He loved Alex and wanted the guy here. Had to have it his way.
Dorsey had no choice but to give up that price for Alex, so 2 valuable picks gone.

Dorsey drafts Fisher, who honestly looked a lot better on Sunday. He looked like a respectable NFL LT.
He drafted Kelce, who looks awesome. Oh wait, Reid only had him on the goddamn field for 18 snaps and 5 targets. WTF are you doing Reid?

Dorsey brings in Vance Walker to help the pass rush. The guy gets ONE snap on Sunday. ONE. And it was a needed sack. Why in the ****ing realm of ****s would you not play this guy more?

You can absolutely say that you don't like Dorsey's plan to build for next year with this draft and he could have brought in at least one other quality FA for cheap, but to say his picks aren't working is laughable.

We know that DAT and Kelce are going to be BAMF. We also know that Dee Ford and Phillip Gaines will rarely play this year. So I ask you. If Fisher looks solid like he did Sunday and Kelce, Cooper and DAT break out into good playmakers, will you still point the finger at Dorsey for not drafting well?

We'll put. Except for the fact that we aren't under spending. We're almost maxed out in cap space, and a championship will fill the stadium faster than anything. Might be hard for a "master of the custodial arts" to understand, but I'm pretty sure the people who have money actually invested in the team or even regular fans would understand! Dumb argument!

Sutton needs to go.

I hate Reid and never wanted him in the first place so I will not be defending him but if you look at the depth of this team outside of QB, RB, and TE this team is ****ing horrible depth wise.

Totally agree. I think he will be given til seasons end. Only prob is who takes his place then. It's gonna be another former Andy Reid assistant. Also I'd like to know who came up with the offensive gameplan for the Titans game. Was it Reid, or Peterson?

Mother Mother****ing Teresa could negotiate a better deal for a player than John Dorsey can.

That guy has yet to sign a player to a contract or make a transaction that has me going, "Wow, nice job! That's a great deal!"

Pioli had the trade down out of the 1st round in 2011. The Jamaal Charles extension. The Derrick Johnson extension. He was still a ****ing moron, but when the situation was obvious on how best to negotiate, he could be fairly shrewd.

I'm pretty sure if Clark had kept Pioli on as GM and told him to just do whatever Andy says, he would have acquired Alex Smith for a lot less than TWO mother ****ing 2nd round picks.

DL isn't too bad. Bailey and Walker are our backups and both got sacks Sunday.
We're bringing in Vickerson because we don't have shit behind them with Cat and DeVito out.

I like JMJ a lot. I really do. We'll see.

CB is a dumpster fire with Owens and Parker. Unknown with Gaines. Safety is terrible depth wise. OL has some guys I'd like to see play at the end of the year in Kush and LDT, but other then that you are right. We need a WR too.

Our GM will finally have enough picks next year. In fact he'll have extra. Next year needs to be a year where we trade and be aggressive. Getting 3 or 4 good players like 2008. This is the perfect opportunity.

Sounds like a lot of "ifs". If Fisher plays well, if Kelce plays well, if DAT sees the field ...

Other than Berry and Houston, who were both no brainers that any GM would have drafted in that position, he really didn't draft that well

You forgot our biggest anchor in Bowe.

DORSEID >>>> PIOLEYNNEL

this is pointless discussion Dorsey will be here at least til the end of the 2016 season IMO

I'm sorry the worst unit on this team is WR and it is not even close.

You could cut them all loose and the only one who would find another job would be Bowe. It might be as a redzone specialist and not even a #2 guy.

The DB/S are not good, but a lot their problem is Dorsey. Look at Kendricks, he has a starting job with another team.

Oline is the second worst unit. Outside of Fisher not much there.

Bare minimum. He'll get at least 4 years. Probably 5+. Face it. If Pioli hadn't created such a hostile environment all the way around, he'd still be here. The Clarks have always been loyal to a fault.

Avery would get a slot job somewhere.

Pioli was an aids fueled dumpster fire. He was the Grim Reaper for this franchise. Few GMs in history have left their team a smouldering ruin the way he did.

And his draft record is embarrassing. Defending it is embarrassing.


The Dorsey/Reid era ended the moment they paid $10 dollars for a nickle QB. Just like Cassel, fear and ignorance - aka Clark Hunt - reigned. Dorsey's drafting doesn't matter. We're stuck with a ****ing nobody as our QB.

We now have the 18th best QB in the league, 3rd best QB in our conference, locked up for $45 million guaranteed. The clown just got out played by something called Jake Locker.

And we have absolutely nothing to show for having the #1 pick in the draft (the only gift Pioli gave us). Absolutely nothing.

But we still have fans who clap loudly. And we didn't do anything risky. So there's always that...

Come the **** on Kendrick Lewis was and is a sorry POS. He ****ing sucks ass man. You are saying that Fisher is good......LOL
Your credibility was just flushed just like when I take the Browns to the Bowl.

If Locker can stay healthy this year (probably won't happen) he'll throw for 4000 yards.

It's hard to believe anyone thinks Pioli was anything other than horrendous in the draft. You probably could have gotten better results if you picked using one of those powerball machines.

Yeah, I've never seen anyone defend it. D, can you link the thread where you and Hamas talked about this? I'd love to read it.

I've already chopped it off.

Dorsey is worse than Pioli, imo.

They are/were both horrible at evaluating talent. They both draft like shit. They both threw some mediocre QB on the pedestal and paid him a ridiculous amount of money. But Pioli was actually decent with the money side of the operation, Dorsey is just a complete moron. He has yet to sign anyone to a contract where you can sit back and say "well that makes sense!"

Reactionary bullshit. I'm left scratching my head the same way I was at this point in Pioli's tenure, but it's way too early to stake those claims. That's how bad Pioli is.

Never too early!

Cut the head off before Arrowhead goes black again!

I agree with that. You have to be proactive running a team this bad. There isn't time for errors. I think I would put him on the hotseat now, but would probably give him one more draft and off season before pulling the trigger. 3 years is reasonable. That's just me.

Uh, can we put Reid's fat ****ing neck on the block too? You DO KNOW that his man-love of fatties was the cause for Fissure, yes? YES?

1. Team makes one of the biggest season to season improvements in franchise history. 2. Loses first game of the following season. 3. FIRE THE GM!!!! DAMMIT CARL!!! :cuss:

The Hunt family is the root of the problem.

ROFL

Teams make improvements in their W-L record all the time. That doesn't mean they are actually an improved team.

May be the first time I've agreed with you little tractor but your spot on with Dorkey he's terriable at evaluating talent.

Jamaal Charles.

And they aren't paying Alex Smith a ridiculous amount of money.

It's not that we lost...it's that we looked inept as hell.

The QB we just signed looked terrible.

The offensive line we just patched together looked terrible.

The idiot #1 wideout got busted and had to sit the game.

The DB's were underwhelming to say the least.

The Best RB in the league may as well have been eating friggin' nachos

The coach admits to "negligence" when it came to the idiotic gameplan. The same coach who has years of experience in the league and is going to save us from embarassing losses.

I could have lived with a last minute field goal loss, one where Alex had thrown for 220 yards and 1 td, since we were missing Bowe and our OLine is suspect. But THIS??

I'm not saying throw out the baby with the bathwater. But that baby is looking less and less like me...I think I might have been fooled somewhere along the line...

The **** they aren't.

Personally we should hope to have the same coach and manager for many years and let them build. All the teams that have long standing success in the league stick to the men they hire and let them work instead of turning over their staff and roster every few years. I am no lover of what has been so far with the exception of a few moves but by no means is dumping them a good idea yet. That would a Raider, Brown or Jax type move. This is the sacrifice season that normally would have been done in year one. Money and all our picks should make a large difference in 2015. Just so its not a shock. Hali will be dumped to pay Houston.

Let them assemble their roster.

You think that 4.6 mil this year, 15.6 mil next year, and 17.8 mil in 2016 after which we could release him and save money is paying too much for Smith?

Let me guess you think the 4.6 mil this year is too much. :rolleyes:

For a guy that needs pro bowlers at receiver for him to be effective, abso-****ing-lutely KC overpaid for the guy.

They can cut Smith after this year and while it costs 14.4 million in cash, it actually saves money on the cap.

Your argument is invalid. Alex Smith's contract is not preventing the Chiefs from making roster moves nor have they shown an unwillingness to give him competition. That alone distinguishes Dorsey from Pioli.

He was effective last season with the same group.

Guy is going to make elite money over the first 3 years of his contract while playing at the level of a top 20 QB his entire career.

Not overpaid /CR

You mean like giving Stanford Routt a 3 year, 18 million deal and then waiving him halfway through season one? You mean like overpaying Brandon Flowers? You mean like overdrafting Tyson Jackson, a non-playmaker, at No 3 and essentially handing him a $30 mil guarantee? You mean like giving Matt Cassel a $60 million contract?

Pioli was not great with money. He actually sucked at money. He was lucky that he signed a couple of guys who wanted to be here to team friendly deals, one of which was Charles, who re-upped last month with another team friendly deal. His best move may have been not overpaying Carr...

Are you ****ing serious?

What competition does Alex have that Cassel didnt?

I think we all knew when they signed bowe that Albert was probably on his last leg here. He let guys walk and didn't replace them, but there's a lot of variables that go into assembling a team. I don't think we should blow it up yet. It's ludicrous really.

Players take time to reach their potential. I think the process of actually building this team has begun. Last year was a band aid year. Now we're witnessing the surgery that I'm sure Dorsey and Reid wanted to do last year but were handicapped by the owner.

You guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think that Reid isn't the one calling the shots here. You think Dorsey walked into Reid's office and told him that he's trading two 2nd round picks for Smith? You really think a guy who cherishes all of his draft picks and is all about building in the draft is trading two 2's for Smith?

That call was all Andy Reid. And it has handcuffed us for two drafts.

Again, I don't care what the org chart says. Andy Reid runs this show. He picked the GM. He's also running the offense on this team, so no way he doesn't pick Bowe over Albert, or pick Fisher over Joekel as all of the draft projections had Fisher being the more athletic and mobile tackle that Andy Reid likes.

The difference between Pioli and Dorsey is that Pioli was calling all the shots. This here is Reid's show. On paper, they both answer directly to Clark. But in reality, you become one of the highest paid coaches in sports, you get to hire your buddy to come be the GM, you are the one with the juice...