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-   -   Cardinals St. Louis Cardinals front office under FBI investigation for hacking (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=292989)

ReynardMuldrake 06-16-2015 09:19 AM

St. Louis Cardinals front office under FBI investigation for hacking
 
WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. and Justice Department prosecutors are investigating front-office officials for the St. Louis Cardinals, one of the most successful teams in baseball over the past two decades, for hacking into the internal networks of a rival team to steal closely guarded information about player personnel.

Investigators have uncovered evidence that Cardinals officials broke into a network of the Houston Astros that housed special databases the team had built, according to law enforcement officials. Internal discussions about trades, proprietary statistics and scouting reports were compromised, the officials said.

The officials did not say which employees were the focus of the investigation or whether the team’s highest-ranking officials were aware of the hacking or authorized it. The investigation is being led by the F.B.I.’s Houston field office and has progressed to the point that subpoenas have been served on the Cardinals and Major League Baseball for electronic correspondence.

The Houston Astros hired Luhnow as general manager in December 2011. Before then he had been a successful and polarizing executive with the Cardinals. Credit David J. Phillip/Associated Press
The attack represents the first known case of corporate espionage in which a professional sports team has hacked the network of another team. Illegal intrusions into companies’ networks have become commonplace, but it is generally conducted by hackers operating in foreign countries, like Russia and China, who steal large tranches of data or trade secrets for military equipment and electronics.

Major League Baseball “has been aware of and has fully cooperated with the federal investigation into the illegal breach of the Astros’ baseball operations database,” a spokesman for baseball’s commissioner, Rob Manfred, said in a written statement.

The Cardinals officials under investigation have not been put on leave, suspended or fired. The commissioner’s office is likely to wait until the conclusion of the government’s investigation to determine whether to take disciplinary action against the officials or the team.

The case is a rare mark of ignominy for the Cardinals, one of the sport’s most revered and popular organizations. The team has the best record in baseball this season (42-21), regularly commands outsize television ratings and has reached the National League Championship Series nine times since 2000. The Cardinals, who last won the World Series in 2011, have 11 titles over all, second only to the Yankees.

Their owner, Bill DeWitt, is a highly regarded executive who last year was in charge of the search committee for a new commissioner to replace the retiring Bud Selig.

Law enforcement officials believe the hacking was executed by vengeful front-office employees for the Cardinals hoping to wreak havoc on the work of Jeff Luhnow, the Astros’ general manager who had been a successful and polarizing executive with the Cardinals until 2011.

From 1994 to 2012, the Astros and the Cardinals were division rivals, in the National League. For a part of that time, Mr. Luhnow was a Cardinals executive, primarily handling scouting and player development. One of many innovative thinkers drawn to the sport by the “Moneyball” phenomenon, he was credited with building baseball’s best minor league system, as well as drafting several players who would become linchpins of the Cardinals’ 2011 World Series-winning team.

The Astros hired Mr. Luhnow as general manager in December 2011, and he quickly began applying his unconventional approach to running a baseball team. In an exploration of the team’s radical transformation, Bloomberg Business called it “a project unlike anything baseball has seen before.”

Under Mr. Luhnow, the Astros have accomplished a striking turnaround; they are in first place in the American League West division. But in 2013, before their revival at the major league level, their internal deliberations about statistics and players were compromised, law enforcement officials said.

The intrusion did not appear to be sophisticated, the law enforcement officials said. When Mr. Luhnow was with the Cardinals, the organization built a computer network, called Redbird, to house all of their baseball operations information — including scouting reports and player personnel information. After leaving to join the Astros, and bringing some front-office personnel with him from the Cardinals, Houston created a similar program known as Ground Control.

Ground Control contained the Astros’ “collective baseball knowledge,” according to a Bloomberg Business article published last year. The program took a series of variables and “weights them according to the values determined by the team’s statisticians, physicist, doctors, scouts and coaches,” the article said.

Investigators believe Cardinals officials, concerned that Mr. Luhnow had taken their idea and proprietary baseball information to the Astros, examined a master list of passwords used by Mr. Luhnow and the other officials who had joined the Astros when they worked for the Cardinals. The Cardinals officials are believed to have used those passwords to gain access to the Astros’ network, law enforcement officials said.

Last year, some of the information was posted anonymously online, according to an article on Deadspin. Among the details that were exposed were trade discussions that the Astros had with other teams. Mr. Luhnow was asked at the time whether the breach would affect how he dealt with other teams. “Today I used a pencil and paper in all my conversations,” he said.

Believing that the Astros’ network had been compromised by a rogue hacker, Major League Baseball notified the F.B.I., and the authorities in Houston opened an investigation. Agents soon found that the Astros’ network had been entered from a computer at a home that some Cardinals officials had lived in. The agents then turned their attention to the team’s front office.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sp...id=tw-bna&_r=0

alpha_omega 06-16-2015 09:24 AM

Ha...since the ***official Cardinals thread*** is not appropriate for Cardinal bashing, i am thankful for this thread.

**** the Cardinals!

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 06-16-2015 09:28 AM

Hahahahahaha

ptlyon 06-16-2015 09:29 AM

New England Patriots East

KC native 06-16-2015 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon (Post 11551165)
New England Patriots East

Don't you mean West?

Reaper16 06-16-2015 09:30 AM

It's OK. God gave His Team dominion over internet communications.

Amnorix 06-16-2015 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon (Post 11551165)
New England Patriots East


Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

ptlyon 06-16-2015 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC native (Post 11551167)
Don't you mean West?

Errr yeah. Whatever.

Reaper16 06-16-2015 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551170)
Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

The geographically limited bastard was prooooooobably referencing SpyGate, not DeflateGate.

wazu 06-16-2015 09:31 AM

Wow! Hate to see this. Ugh.

Anyong Bluth 06-16-2015 09:31 AM

best fans in blackballed baseball.

ptlyon 06-16-2015 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16 (Post 11551172)
The geographically limited bastard was prooooooobably referencing SpyGate, not DeflateGate.

I have trouble with left or right too. Missed those days in the 3rd grade.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 06-16-2015 09:33 AM

Give us Alex Reyes and we'll forget the whole thing.

wazu 06-16-2015 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551170)
Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

It probably is from a results perspective, but since it involves a criminal act I will concede its on a slightly different level overall.

Pablo 06-16-2015 09:34 AM

one who sucks the peniss. Just like their fan base. Color me surprised.

Mr. Laz 06-16-2015 09:42 AM

lol

cheatbirds

L.A. Chieffan 06-16-2015 09:43 AM

It's the cardinal way, they train their computer people to hack the right way in the minors

'Hamas' Jenkins 06-16-2015 09:43 AM

That's an absolute disgrace if true. Whoever is involved or authorized this should lose their jobs and be blacklisted from baseball. Also, total dick move by Luhnow if he actually did take proprietary information from the team when he went to Houston.

petegz28 06-16-2015 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551170)
Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

How about filming opposing teams' practices???

ChiefsCountry 06-16-2015 09:47 AM

Might have to listen to Kevin Slaten this afternoon.

Old Dog 06-16-2015 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon (Post 11551165)
New England Patriots East

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC native (Post 11551167)
Don't you mean West?

If he went east long enough he would get there (though it would certainly be a shorter trip heading in the direction you suggest).

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 09:48 AM

{facepalm}

Goddammit.

Mozeliak was Jocketty's chief lieutenant; came over with him from Colorado. Jocketty and Luhnow hated each other and while Mozeliak was hired largely because the front office believed he would work well with Luhnow, there's no doubt in my mind that Mozeliak's guys were also guys that were loyal to Jocketty before him; they were all part of the same tree.

So when Luhnow leaves, some idiot thinks they'll get back at the snot-nosed numbers guy and sets out to embarrass him. They didn't even get a competitive advantage from it (hell, if that's your plan, you don't ever reveal that you've made it into their system; you just continue mining it for information) - they just did it to make Luhnow look bad.

10 years after the organization fractured between Jocketty and Luhnow and we're still dealing with blowback from it. Unbelievable. Stupid, petty bullshit by some underling with an axe to grind. ****; this is gonna suck ass.

Perineum Ripper 06-16-2015 09:48 AM

http://i1.wp.com/memecollection.net/...3780.gif?w=900

Mr. Flopnuts 06-16-2015 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551170)
Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

You should be happy that another team is in play for cheaters of the year.

ChiTown 06-16-2015 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac459 (Post 11551206)

LMAO

Mr. Flopnuts 06-16-2015 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551170)
Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Reaper16 06-16-2015 09:52 AM

This is one of the worst cheating scandals in modern sports history.

But also Luhnow is a total dummy for not changing his passwords. C'mon dude.

Amnorix 06-16-2015 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 11551196)
How about filming opposing teams' practices???


Never alleged except by a reporter who withdrew it swiftly after realizing he had screwed up, and no evidence of it at all.

Oh, and by yahoos on the Internet. They allege it frequently.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 06-16-2015 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16 (Post 11551215)
This is one of the worst cheating scandals in modern sports history.

But also Luhnow is a total dummy for not changing his passwords. C'mon dude.

Could have been someone other than Luhnow

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 11551181)
It probably is from a results perspective, but since it involves a criminal act I will concede its on a slightly different level overall.

It's Silicon Valley.

Anyone catch this season? When Gilfoyle 'hacks' End Frame by taking the post-it note with the password off his desk.

Whoever did this just went down a list of old passwords until one of them stuck. On one hand, it's funny as hell. On the other hand...mother. ****er. It's just such a stupid, petty maneuver. These are two teams in different leagues who utilize largely the exact same player evaluation tools/metrics because goddamn Luhnow built them for STL. The Cards already have what he uses, or at least a very close approximation.

There was no competitive advantage to be gained here and the idiots knew it, that's why they leaked it rather than sit on the knowledge and pump the Astros for information for years.

It's just so goddamn dumb and it's obviously a terrible look for the organization.

SPchief 06-16-2015 09:56 AM

Reminder, if you're not already following
@BestFansStLouis on twitter. It's highly recommended.

Hootie 06-16-2015 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551218)
Never alleged except by a reporter who withdrew it swiftly after realizing he had screwed up, and no evidence of it at all.

Oh, and by yahoos on the Internet. They allege it frequently.

maybe they just hacked the Astros ever so slightly ... that's my guess. If so, if they just cheated a little ... no big deal, right?

petegz28 06-16-2015 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551218)
Never alleged except by a reporter who withdrew it swiftly after realizing he had screwed up, and no evidence of it at all.

Oh, and by yahoos on the Internet. They allege it frequently.

What about the NFL?? Are you saying the NFL punished your precious Pats for nothing?

ptlyon 06-16-2015 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dog (Post 11551203)
If he went east long enough he would get there (though it would certainly be a shorter trip heading in the direction you suggest).

Good point. Thanks!

ptlyon 06-16-2015 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon (Post 11551165)
New England Patriots Far East

FMP

ptlyon 06-16-2015 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 (Post 11551227)
maybe they just hacked the Astros ever so slightly ... that's my guess. If so, if they just cheated a little ... no big deal, right?

Well, it is the Astros...

O.city 06-16-2015 10:01 AM

Not a good look for the franchise. At all.

Everyone involved needs to burn

wazu 06-16-2015 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPchief (Post 11551226)
Reminder, if you're not already following
@BestFansStLouis on twitter. It's highly recommended.

I'm not a hater, but this is pure gold.

Hootie 06-16-2015 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlyon (Post 11551234)
Well, it is the Astros...

oh I don't care, I was just laughing at Amnorix's 'ever so slightly' comment

kcfanXIII 06-16-2015 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16 (Post 11551215)
This is one of the worst cheating scandals in modern sports history.

But also Luhnow is a total dummy for not changing his passwords. C'mon dude.

This all day. Just by the information in this article you can tell the "hackers" are not skilled. They gained access by using a list of old passwords, and they were able to trace the breech to their actual home... The biggest thing about this is it is highly illegal, and with the recent wave of breeches being traced to the far east, (or west of the US for those that are concerned about flight times) the FBI cyber crimes division finally has someone to go after. I expect the punishment to be severe.

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16 (Post 11551215)
This is one of the worst cheating scandals in modern sports history.

But also Luhnow is a total dummy for not changing his passwords. C'mon dude.

It could have been, but because of the parties to this one in particular, it probably isn't.

Again, Luhnow's stuff is the same stuff the Cards have. And Luhnow never knew anyone was in his system until it was leaked. If the Cards were actually getting good intel, they'd have never leaked the information.

I mean I guess we'll find out; shit's gonna hit the fan here and we'll see what happens when it all settles. Maybe the Cards front office guy(s) were sitting on key data and grabbed Wacha a bit early in the 2012 draft knowing that the Astros might take him in the 2nd. Maybe they leaked the negotiations/information regarding Aiken/Nix and the Casey Close mess last year. But with the sordid history between Luhnow and the remnants of the Jocketty camp, the most likely scenario is that some jackass stumbled into the password and wanted Luhnow to look like a dick.

Nobody that had given this a moment of thought would have ever thought that the Astros/Luhnow would just let that go. If it had really been a source of steady data mining, the Cards front office would have never leaked that information because it was obviously going to get back on them at some point.

siberian khatru 06-16-2015 10:04 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">of course <a href="http://t.co/CvlayMn076">pic.twitter.com/CvlayMn076</a></p>&mdash; america (@greghoward88) <a href="https://twitter.com/greghoward88/status/610838021714395136">June 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Amnorix 06-16-2015 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 11551243)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">of course <a href="http://t.co/CvlayMn076">pic.twitter.com/CvlayMn076</a></p>&mdash; america (@greghoward88) <a href="https://twitter.com/greghoward88/status/610838021714395136">June 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


:LOL:

Amnorix 06-16-2015 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 11551229)
What about the NFL?? Are you saying the NFL punished your precious Pats for nothing?


Christ. Spygate was NOT ABOUT TAPING PRACTICES. Not even a tiny, little bit.

It was about taping signals in games. A practice that was common and widespread until the NFL sent a memo about it in 2006 prohibiting it.

BWillie 06-16-2015 10:07 AM

So, how big of an advantage would this give you? I would think it would really only help in player acquisition with that team to figure out how much they value a given player. I dont see why the Cardinals would even bother based on risk reward. So stupid of them

duncan_idaho 06-16-2015 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11551241)
It could have been, but because of the parties to this one in particular, it probably isn't.

Again, Luhnow's stuff is the same stuff the Cards have. And Luhnow never knew anyone was in his system until it was leaked. If the Cards were actually getting good intel, they'd have never leaked the information.

I mean I guess we'll find out; shit's gonna hit the fan here and we'll see what happens when it all settles. Maybe the Cards front office guy(s) were sitting on key data and grabbed Wacha a bit early in the 2012 draft knowing that the Astros might take him in the 2nd. Maybe they leaked the negotiations/information regarding Aiken/Nix and the Casey Close mess last year. But with the sordid history between Luhnow and the remnants of the Jocketty camp, the most likely scenario is that some jackass stumbled into the password and wanted Luhnow to look like a dick.

Nobody that had given this a moment of thought would have ever thought that the Astros/Luhnow would just let that go. If it had really been a source of steady data mining, the Cards front office would have never leaked that information because it was obviously going to get back on them at some point.

It also was incredibly stupid for whoever did it to leak this info. Because the Astros then knew they had a leak, and that led to them turning it over to the FBI.

duncan_idaho 06-16-2015 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 11551252)
So, how big of an advantage would this give you? I would think it would really only help in player acquisition with that team to figure out how much they value a given player. I dont see why the Cardinals would even bother based on risk reward. So stupid of them

I think you're underestimating how much the Mo people hate the Luhnow people.

I once had a Cards scout refuse to talk to me because I mentioned something SABRE-ish. Was told "You want to talk about made-up bullshit like that, you go talk to one of Luhnow's nerds."

kcpasco 06-16-2015 10:10 AM

ROFL so going down a list of old passwords is hacking?

Mr. Laz 06-16-2015 10:11 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHogrMhUEAAB9mq.jpg

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 11551252)
So, how big of an advantage would this give you? I would think it would really only help in player acquisition with that team to figure out how much they value a given player. I dont see why the Cardinals would even bother based on risk reward. So stupid of them

Theoretically it could give you a pretty big advantage depending on what you found.

If you're the Cardinals and you hack the Cubs, for instance. You'll get to look into Epstein's brain and see what player development/analysis tools he has. You also get an edge on a division rival that you'll likely be competing with for players. You'll know exactly what they'd be willing to pay so you can price enforce in FA negotiations or not overbid if it's someone you want.

The benefits could be enormous if they yield a new set of eyes/minds and/or provide a way to undermine your direct competition.

In this particular instance, however, they got to Luhnow's system - a system he developed over his 8 years in STL. There was no new information there. Moreover, there's very little benefit to price enforcing as they're in separate leagues. It could be helpful when pursuing players but near as I can remember, the Cards/Astros have not been in on the same guys since Luhnow went out there because they've been in different places on the competitive cycle.

In the end, it almost certainly yielded next to no competitive advantage for STL, which is supported by the fact that they leaked the intel and thus cooked that golden goose.

I mean shit, if you're going to make the organization look TERRIBLE, at least do it in pursuit of actually benefiting your squad instead of just trying to make a former co-worker look like a tool.

RollChiefsRoll 06-16-2015 10:12 AM

St. Louis is a festering shithole. Baseball is all they have. Cut me some slack, FBI, dang.

seclark 06-16-2015 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcpasco (Post 11551259)
ROFL so going down a list of old passwords is hacking?

using them is.
bad deal.
sec

SPchief 06-16-2015 10:14 AM

1 Attachment(s)
List of key words being looked for.

Anyong Bluth 06-16-2015 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16 (Post 11551215)
This is one of the worst cheating scandals in modern sports history.

But also Luhnow is a total dummy for not changing his passwords. C'mon dude.

unless it was a honeypot trap. If so, Luhnow is an even greater genius knowing the acrimony between some of the front office on the way out might result in former coworkers might attempt to see him flame out.

Do I think that's what happend? No.
I do expect the Cards to find a patsy to fall on their sword in an attempt to do damage control. I hope they show them no quarter.

Mr. Laz 06-16-2015 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcpasco (Post 11551259)
ROFL so going down a list of old passwords is hacking?

actually yes

It's basically a form of brute force hacking.


There are hacking programs that use "dictionaries" of sorts and a automated log-in app to try every password possible.

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11551254)
It also was incredibly stupid for whoever did it to leak this info. Because the Astros then knew they had a leak, and that led to them turning it over to the FBI.

Exactly - that's why I don't think this was a known organizational thing.

One or two jackasses thinking like frat boys would leak the information because they thought it was funny. But at the upper levels, someone's going to realize 'holy shit folks, Luhnow's gonna come hard for whoever did this...how 'bout we not EVER let it be known that we have it....'

Like I said, we'll find out. The FBI's not gonna just hang out there. There are gonna be high level Cardinal officials in courtrooms for a very long time answering some pretty nasty questions under oath. But with some background on the parties involved and with at least some knowledge as to how that information was eventually used/leaked, a face level reading suggests something very stupid and not ultimately very beneficial.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 06-16-2015 10:21 AM

TEX needs to get in here.

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11551258)
I think you're underestimating how much the Mo people hate the Luhnow people.

I once had a Cards scout refuse to talk to me because I mentioned something SABRE-ish. Was told "You want to talk about made-up bullshit like that, you go talk to one of Luhnow's nerds."

HA!

Damn, you have a fair amount of nice information. I knew you worked in sports, but how closely/long did you work with folks within the Cards organization?

Yeah, it's incredibly important to know the parties involved here. Walt Jocketty got fired a mere 10 months after winning a World Series, culminating a 3 year stretch where they won 2 pennants and had 2 100 win seasons. He was fired for a mediocre, but not awful, 78 win season where the whole team broke down.

The problem was that the organization had become so friggen toxic that guys in the front office simply weren't speaking to each other for months at a time.

Everything about this goes back to the absolute hatred between the Luhnow and Jocketty people and the fact that Jocketty still has loyal lieutenants in that front office via John Mozeliak.

duncan_idaho 06-16-2015 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11551275)
Exactly - that's why I don't think this was a known organizational thing.

One or two jackasses thinking like frat boys would leak the information because they thought it was funny. But at the upper levels, someone's going to realize 'holy shit folks, Luhnow's gonna come hard for whoever did this...how 'bout we not EVER let it be known that we have it....'

Like I said, we'll find out. The FBI's not gonna just hang out there. There are gonna be high level Cardinal officials in courtrooms for a very long time answering some pretty nasty questions under oath. But with some background on the parties involved and with at least some knowledge as to how that information was eventually used/leaked, a face level reading suggests something very stupid and not ultimately very beneficial.

Better just hope the Cardinals didn't nab a guy the Astros were extremely high on in the draft or something, with a paper trail. That would be the most egregious thing that could happen, IMO.

For example, if there is an email chain in the Cardinals files (which the FBI now has reason to go after) about a player (Say, Michael Wacha) and how the Cards should jump up their evaluation of him based on info from the Astros database, I imagine that would draw attention from the FBI and MLB...

Anyong Bluth 06-16-2015 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 11551238)
I'm not a hater, but this is pure gold.


Just one for example that shows the intellectual genius on full display.


]Kathryn Waellner ‏@KatWaellner 50m
50 minutes ago

The FBI is just jealous of the Cardinals success

dur??

I wasn't aware that the FBI was deep in a pennant chase...

ChiefsCountry 06-16-2015 10:25 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Cardinals will post all the hacked documents on WachaLeaks.</p>&mdash; Steve Rushin (@SteveRushin) <a href="https://twitter.com/SteveRushin/status/610839944836317184">June 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 11551289)
Better just hope the Cardinals didn't nab a guy the Astros were extremely high on in the draft or something, with a paper trail. That would be the most egregious thing that could happen, IMO.

For example, if there is an email chain in the Cardinals files (which the FBI now has reason to go after) about a player (Say, Michael Wacha) and how the Cards should jump up their evaluation of him based on info from the Astros database, I imagine that would draw attention from the FBI and MLB...

Wacha was definitely the first name that came to mind for me as well. It was immediately after Luhnow left. My only thought being that the timelines on this suggest that this probably didn't happen until a little after Luhnow was gone. I'd imagine some guys in the front office saw/read/heard what Luhnow was doing now that he was in charge in Houston for awhile. They'd have started poking around and found something shortly thereafter.

The timelines will be made clear soon enough, but if I'm guessing I'm going to say this is probably something that happened in the 2013 range. So Wacha would likely not be in play but perhaps Jack Flaherty got bumped up? Kaminsky? I'd say the information would have likely been used in the 2013 and 2014 drafts.

C3HIEF3S 06-16-2015 10:53 AM

lol

Eleazar 06-16-2015 10:55 AM

This is a much bigger deal that Spygate, Deflategate, etc., if it were true.

Actual real-world felonies, actual cyber intrusions, actual people going to prison for those crimes being a distinct possibility.

Aside from that, you have potentially priceless information being stolen about player personnel, trade discussions etc etc.

Outside of actually throwing games, this would be as bad as it gets. Steroids are bad, but that's an individual crime by one player. This could be the biggest scandal since 1919. It's hard to think of any examples of cheating on this level in baseball

Anyone involved should be banned for life.

Amnorix 06-16-2015 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise (Post 11551347)
This is a much bigger deal that Spygate, Deflategate, etc., if it were true.

Actual real-world felonies, actual cyber intrusions, actual people going to prison for those crimes being a distinct possibility.

Aside from that, you have potentially priceless information being stolen about player personnel, trade discussions etc etc.

Outside of actually throwing games, this would be as bad as it gets. Steroids are bad, but that's an individual crime by one player. This could be the biggest scandal since 1919.

Anyone involved should be banned for life.

Thank you. I'm really glad that someone gets this.

Computer hacking is a federal freaking crime.

ChiTown 06-16-2015 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise (Post 11551347)
This is a much bigger deal that Spygate, Deflategate, etc., if it were true.

Actual real-world felonies, actual cyber intrusions, actual people going to prison for those crimes being a distinct possibility.

Aside from that, you have potentially priceless information being stolen about player personnel, trade discussions etc etc.

Outside of actually throwing games, this would be as bad as it gets. Steroids are bad, but that's an individual crime by one player. This could be the biggest scandal since 1919.

Anyone involved should be banned for life.

Agreed. Including the entire Cardinals Franchise..............

Eleazar 06-16-2015 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551351)
Thank you. I'm really glad that someone gets this.

Computer hacking is a federal freaking crime.

We had the Black Sox, now the Black Birds?

Mr. Flopnuts 06-16-2015 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551351)
Thank you. I'm really glad that someone gets this.

Computer hacking is a federal freaking crime.

Your team isn't absolved. They'll just have partners in crime now.

Hootie 06-16-2015 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 11551359)
Your team isn't absolved. They'll just have partners in crime now.

but it was just a little bit of air !

Mr. Flopnuts 06-16-2015 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 (Post 11551369)
but it was just a little bit of air !

It was probably only 3 or 4 emails!

Amnorix 06-16-2015 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 11551359)
Your team isn't absolved. They'll just have partners in crime now.


ROFL

Except what the Patriots did was no "crime". You do get the difference between federal laws and NFL rules, I hope?

Amnorix 06-16-2015 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 (Post 11551369)
but it was just a little bit of air !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 11551371)
It was probably only 3 or 4 emails!


ROFL

Except it might not have been ANY air. The physical evidence is weak as hell. Heck, the New York Times, relying on an independent research report, blew the Wells Report out of the water.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/op...gate.html?_r=0

Quote:

Our recommendation? When the N.F.L. hears Mr. Brady’s appeal of his suspension later this month, it should proceed with the knowledge that the Wells report is unreliable.

http://www.aei.org/publication/on-wells-report/

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploa...lls-report.pdf

Big punchline:

Quote:

The fact that the average pressure of the Colts balls was significantly above the prediction of the Ideal Gas Law, while that of the Patriots balls was not, is inconsistent with the findings of the Wells report. Our conclusion that the warming of the balls during halftime is the key factor overlooked in the Wells report is supported by the observation that the readings of the intercepted Patriots football, measured separately from the other Patriots balls, came in almost precisely at the prediction of the law. Under the hypothesis asserted by the Well report, the odds of this Patriots ball matching the Ideal Gas Law prediction were between 1 out of 3 and 1 out of
300. It is therefore unlikely that the Patriots deflated the footballs.

kstater 06-16-2015 11:17 AM

The postseason ban will be fun

Hootie 06-16-2015 11:18 AM

yeah

Kraft just accepted forfeiture of a 1st round pick, 4th round pick, and $1M because the Patriots did nothing wrong

that's what innocent people do

yep

DJ's left nut 06-16-2015 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551351)
Thank you. I'm really glad that someone gets this.

Computer hacking is a federal freaking crime.

So is possession of a controlled substance; i.e. the steroid scandal. And at least that would hand provided a substantial competitive advantage.

The legal ramifications of a scandal aren't as critical to me as its impact of the play on the field.

Ultimately I see this as roughly equivalent in terms of degree to the BoSox winning the WS with Manny being as drugged as a racehorse.

Mr. Flopnuts 06-16-2015 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551384)
ROFL

Except what the Patriots did was no "crime". You do get the difference between federal laws and NFL rules, I hope?

Come on now, counselor. "Partners in crime" is a well known figure of speech.

Mr. Flopnuts 06-16-2015 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 (Post 11551395)
yeah

Kraft just accepted forfeiture of a 1st round pick, 4th round pick, and $1M because the Patriots did nothing wrong

that's what innocent people do

yep

I know that's what I'd do! Especially after my buddymish destroyed evidence from the last time we got caught cheating.

BossChief 06-16-2015 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551170)
Right, because footballs that may or may not have been deflated by a very slight amount is absolutely comparable to hacking an opposing team's computer network to get confidential information. :rolleyes:

But

But

But there is no RULE against hacking into an opposing teams database, so it was A OK.

'Hamas' Jenkins 06-16-2015 11:30 AM

Welp,

Embrace the full turn.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/de03a7042...eak7o6_250.gif

Hootie 06-16-2015 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 11551407)
But

But

But there is no RULE against hacking into an opposing teams database, so it was A OK.

I'm not too up in arms about this since I simply just don't give a **** ...

but we already have DJ, Cards homer, defending the breach saying it provided no competitive advantage since the morons who 'hacked' the system leaked the information rather than continuing to cheat and gain an actual competitive advantage

that's about as good as Amnorix and his "well other teams were doing it, too!" defense every time the Pats get caught and forfeit a 1st round pick

that dude is still trying to point to science stating the Pats "didn't even cheat!" after their owner accepted the penalties handed down by the NFL (steep ones, at that).

That's not what innocent people do ... ever.


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