Barnwell on Derek Carr
 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page...orget-help-nfl

Jeff Fisher...

2013, 13 games played, 27 TD's and 2 INT's....and looked awesome doing it.

Foles needs to get back in his groove.

Carr has a really bad pocket presence and has some Favre/Cutler in him aka he makes stupid ass mistakes that are easy to avoid.

Look at the Mauga INT return and Parker INT that we had against him lass year. No Justin Houston and Carr sat in the pocket for damn near 10 seconds before giving us the ball back.

Like I've said before, Carr is extremely overrated.

Have been saying this for a while, he's overrated. horrible against the rush and when it matters. He might improve, but he has a long way to go.

He's probably a little overrated right now, but his stating last year in terms of yardage and touchdowns would be chiefs all time records.

He was also just a 2nd year qb. I hope this trend continues in the turnover area, but for a 2nd year qb, I'd take it.

Absolutely. So many Carr lovers on this board who are drinking the kool aid. Which is funny cause they are the same people who raved about manuel, and then bridgewater, and Tannehill.

He's a guy like that looks good against terrible teams. And then against average to good teams he's the type of QB that will absolutely lose games for his team

I think he's overhyped but at the end of the day they have the team around him now to make things interesting.

So far he hasn't proven capable of playing well against good defenses, or late in games. That's gotta turn around before he's one of the top guys in the league.

There were guys who jerked their Gerkins to Bridgewater and Tannehill...but Manuel?

Maybe I missed something. I was shocked when he went in the first as the first QB taken... a lot of the reason why I was shocked was because of how CP generally didn't like him.

He's a little overhyped, sure.

But he's also a guy that is young and inexperienced enough that he could actually grow into what people were calling him last year.

He wasn't a top 15 QB last year, IMO. But with continued growth, he could easily surpass that.

For this season, I'd take Smith over Carr. For the subsequent seasons? Carr could change that answer pretty dramatically.

Yup.

If he plays the rest of his career to the point he has his first two years then he will be nothing more than an average QB, nothing special at all.

Hes a little overrated but that always comes with youth/potential. He posted some pretty good numbers for a guy in his 2nd year on a below average team. I can see why the hype is there. He will have to deliver this year or the hype will fade. Bortles may prove to be better but from what Ive seen Carr is easily better than Bridgewater who looks to be a classic game manager in the making, but with the better D he doesnt have to take as many chances as Carr,Bortles at the end of games.

Carr needs good coaching. Andy would have helped him a lot with the dumb mistakes.

Still wish we would have drafted him and say him him for a year. Carr is way better than Ford as of today.

This place is notorious for it's ridiculous expectations of players who have not had sufficient time or experience to develop.

They can't ever look at the bigger picture in regards to various aspects of the individual or overall team outlook.

I'm talking about a huge majority of the people here.

holy christ

Chiefs fans talking shit on a QB who threw 32 TD in his second year

that's literally never happened in the history of this franchise

Exactly why we're using the word overrated. All anybody cares about is the sexy stats.

Same reason your dumb ass would rather have Foles than Smith.

Can Carr continue to develop and live up to the hype? Absolutely. He has a long ways to go though. He's not even better than Smith where we stand right now.

He regressed as the season went on (never a good sign IMO), and his fourth quarter statistics were absolutely terrible.

Stat whore just like i said. Still plenty of room to grow

BUH GAWD STATS! !!!!!

He probably jerks it to Cousins (Double Entendre )

He's already better than Smith. He's only played on teams with 32nd and 22nd ranked defenses and no ****ing running game.

A football team with Alex Smith and those defenses/running games would be in the top 5 for draft position every year.

We've got maybe two years left of "peak" Alex Smith, so enjoy 20 TD and 3500 yards and then wishing we had someone like Carr. ROFL

I mean do you even get that his best WR was a rookie last year...#2 was a draft bust poor man's Bowe.

lmfao...Chiefs fans...hilarious

A lot of Chiefs fans do have penis envy regarding other teams QBs, but thats to be expected when your team doesnt draft and develop its own QB, so you instinctively root against that method and cross your fingers the retread way proves to be the right way

Shit QB when under pressure is worthless. Can't deny it.

Yeah, tds are good stats. I can be talked into yardage being overrated, but tds not so much

Not when he's the worst QB in the league for half a season. Figured out.

Carr threw for 2200 yards, 17 TDs and 10 INT in the last 8 games last year.

That's not even close to "worst QB in the league."

Stafford threw 41 TD's in year 3. Matt Ryan's had a 30+ TD season early in his career, now he's putting up Alex Smith #'s with Julio at WR. Foles had one of the best 10 or so game stretches in NFL history with his 27 TD's. Blake Bortles just threw 38 TD's in year two, while still having a bad season overall.

If you're going to get a boner over the TD totals that's fine, but let's not ignore the end of the season regression, the interceptions, and the atrocious 4th quarter stats.

oh god a QB threw more than 10 INTs in a year

whatever will we do

During Oakland's final eight games, Carr's QBR dropped to just 35.1, leaving him 28th out of 29 passers

Not the worst, but certainly well below average and one of the worst. Bortles was 29th, another QB people are overrating because of sexy stats. Coincidence? I think not. The potential is obviously there, but they both have a long way to go. Much longer than people want to admit.

Chief's D. will have something for his punk ass this year.

I don't know if 38 tds in a year make it a bad year, especially for a 2nd year qb.

Carr may regress and or never improve in areas he needs to improve in. But 32 tds in his 2nd year is good progress from year 1.

Put this way, if the chiefs had a 2nd year qb on the track carr is on, I'd be pretty happy with it and excited for the future

Is it me, or did it seem like Matt Ryan seemed to dwindle a bit when Tony Gonzalez retired??

Man...it's crazy how if 1-2 pieces become missing, how badly a QB's stats will flounder. Matt Ryan used to put up some #'s.

Another note on Matt Ryan...Didn't he put up a crazy amount of INT's his final year in college and was still drafted early? That is a QB that confuses me.

Carr needs to tune finer parts of his game. Last weekend he missed 3 wide open guys by poor ball placement bc he threw off his back foot.

Carr would be so much better here with a coaching staff that actually knows what they're doing.

I liked Carr and wanted the Chiefs to draft him. I was really discouraged to see the Faiders take him. Since he is in Chokeland instead of KC, I hope that I was wrong about him and that this regression continues.

I love it when our 11 year veteran franchise QB is still compared to the 2 year nUb. I mean the 11 year vet can grow, the 2 year nUb can't.

everyone would be...these people jerk off to bray

Oaklands shitty coaching is what will ultimately doom him if he stays there.

So have you actually read the thread or are you just starting with the argument you want to have and hoping someone takes the bait?

I'm not jumping in with him

But there is a little bit of not looking in our own mirror here.

Now, I've always been a fan of alex, I think he's better than he gets credit for.

But he's not asked to do the things carr was last year. Yeah, carr struggled in the fourth quarter and against pressure, but if it weren't for him, alot of those games aren't close in the fourth anyway.

Why is it that Chiefs fans always feel the need to not give credit where it's due to opposing players?

Carr was pretty good in his sophomore season where a lot of QBs have down years and the team improved the OL in front of him to improve the O and made some big moves to improve their defense, as well. That's gonna help them win games and for Carr to improve as a passer.

I have little doubt that KC takes the division and I still think the Raiders are a year away from the playoffs, but Carr is a good QB that's gonna be a premier passer once the old guard all hang em up.

You answered your own question. Nobody is denying Carr's potential, but you talk as if he's arrived, and he has not. There's not enough evidence to say he's going to be one of the best QB's in the NFL. That is exactly why I say he's overrated. I made the same mistake with Stafford, Ryan, Foles, etc. early in their careers, and I'm not making it again, especially not when I take the bad from last season into consideration. He has a ways to go, and anybody that disagrees is not looking at his 2015 season objectively.

Exactly. The majority opinion in this thread is that Carr is a solid young QB who has room to grow but seems to be given credit for what he COULD be without actually getting there just yet.

I don't see the Carr hate that people are railing against here.

There's too many factors to say either way.

Look at the guys you've mentioned and the situations they play in. Stafford is a big arrmed douche, but the Lions have a pretty dysfunctional system. I've never been a big fan of Matt Ryan, but once they got rid of Mike Smith and brought in the Patriot crap, it's gone downhill quick.

Organizational stability, players around them, etc. Time being, it seems the Raiders have a good thing going in those terms.

Eh, clay stumbled in and all hell kind of broke loose.

Pretty much what you'd expect.

If Derek Carr is wrong, I don't want to be right.

http://ultraimg.com/images/CarrMoore2.gif

https://media.profootballfocus.com/2...-Cooper-TD.gif

http://i.imgur.com/DwQpP6f.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lMi...awxO/giphy.gif

Ok? Now post some gifs of his 4th quarter meltdowns.

Derek Carr also had 100 more pass attempts to get to those gaudy numbers than Alex Smith last year...Alex had a higher YPA, rating and total QBR.

Also, when you figure in rushing yards...their offensive production was almost identical...again, with Alex having less attempts.

The only thing Carr was better at was testing defenses deep...and even at that I bet the risk to reward was t all that great due to turnovers...ill have to check

When you're right, you're right.

Yeah, KC has a better running game and defense then they do. Im sure they wish they could play hold the lead and run out the clock in the 4th but they are not good enough yet.

Good thing, because right is something that rarely applies to you.

the point is that he can do things that Alex can't do and attempts throws he wouldn't even consider

check back in 10 years and see who had the better career because of that difference alone

How is the 5 year prediction you made between the careers of Geno Smith vs Alex Smith working out for you?

Dinny

And Alex can do things Carr can't do.

After its all said and done, their production was very similar.

The difference being that KC had a much better running game, so that made the running game score more for KC.

If Oakland had Spencer Ware, Carr wouldn't have as many TDs.

when i fail to bed a woman it doesn't mean i turn gay

Yeah gonna say that's bullshit. Carr is almost as mobile and accounted for 10 more TDs.

Grasping at straws here.

Alex is better at being scared and punting though.

He also does a lot of dumb things that Alex won't do. If he hadn't thrown those dumb interceptions last year, he could've beat KC. Strong arm QB's are nice. But you still have to be smart with the ball. Jeff George had a cannon for an arm. Where did that get him? Jamarcus Russell, Geno SMith, the list goes on and on. If he doesn't improve on his bad decisions, that big arm won't be enough to make him good.

That depends, is "her" dick bigger than yours?

I don't believe you've had pussy since pussy had you. Tight around the neck.

Dinny

Ummm no.

Carr
573 pass attempts for 3987 yards 32tds
33 rush attempts for 138 yards 0tds
That's 606 attempts for 4125 yards and 32tds

Smith
470 pass attempts for 3486 yards 20tds
84 rush attempts for 498 yards 2tds
That's 554 attempts for 3984 yards and 22tds

Not much different.

Especially when you factor in that KCs running game scored a ton of TDs and Oaklands didn't.

you are looking at alex through rose colored glasses. he is not vick.

carr ran a 4.65, which is actually faster than what alex ran.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rELRItqiqz...0/carr-run.gif

and of course carr runs to throw (as evidenced by his low rushing total), alex runs to run, which is another point in carr's favor

10 TDs is a huge difference.

you're a hilarious old man. i'm getting engaged next year.

Gay marriage, big deal.

So how is the Geno vs Alex thing going for you?

Dinny

That single play counts for almost 1/3 of Carr's rushing yards on the entire season.

That's because he's a QB. He throws the ball instead of running.

not well

doesn't mean we shouldn't try again and take the next derek carr

Good evaluation of Alex Smiff. That Carr kid looks good though.

Further proving your lack of football knowledge and cluelessness.

****ing troll.

No, because Russell Wilson threw for even MORE yards and MORE TD than Carr.

A true superstar. Like Carr and Alex combined! (more Carr)

So you only get credit for mobility if you also throw 30+ TD's, sounds objective.

Let's not pretend that Wilson's first couple of years were that way too (when he was still one of the better QB's in the NFL).

This last year, Wilson was a stud from the pocket too. He's damn good.

Yes he is. That dude is elite.


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Russell Wilson's rookie season would have been a career year for Alex

Jesus ****, tell me we aren't back to this shit again.

Why are we talking about Russell Wilson? Who the hell said that Smith was as good as that guy?

Goddammit people, you cannot continue to allow Clay to do this nonsense. You know this is what he does, right? Troll Alex Smith until he can find an opening to start comparing him to guys that everyone on this board will concede are superior to him. Then people start coming in knocking over straw men that the stupid ****ing troll propped up.

Why the shit are you folks still engaging this clown?

LMAO dammit man I was enjoying watching that.

For some strange reason I enjoy arguing with Clay. Mostly because he's going to have to eat crow eventually with this regime. Guilty as charged.

Super Bowl, baby! ROFL

I didn't bring up Alex Smith OR Russell Wilson.

You can thank staylor26 for that.

Oh, and YOU brought up Alex Smith. And then staylor continued to bring him up.

Don't blame ME for replying to YOU.

You're the clowns.