Chiefs 2016 Defense
 

I post this in another thread but I want to see what everyone thinks about our defense this year. I really dont think our defense is gonna be anywhere near as good as everyone thinks. Our olb is shit, really, think about it. Justin houston hurt, tamba is 65 years old, dee ford is a bust.

Corners: we have one proven good one. 1.

poe hasnt been anywhere near as explosive as he once was once that back injury.

linebackers: DJ is 80 years old, 120 tackles a year for the past 15 years? right. Mauga? lol.

berry is meh

I think our offense is gonna have to win the games for us now.

I'm just curious to see what everyone thinks on here. If theres already been a thread about this then go die in an aids ebola fire while harambe rapes you. Have a great day. Go Chiefs

really no option but to answer worse at this point

only hope it's temporary and we get it back together towards the end of year

Berry is meh?

Suck a dick.

ok berry is just above meh

Yea, what a ****ing idiot.

Really truly no way to know.

Sutton's scheme depends on each player working as a unit. When it works, it works. When it falls apart, it does so with alacrity.

Until we know what several key question stars are capable of, we're in limbo between beasting again and folding like a tent.

Not so worried about Berry, but Hali, Houston, Mauga and Gaines need to weigh in authoritatively before we can say anything educated.

It's really had to say at this point because you have a lot of key players that haven't been on the field. Combine that with the vanilla defense that is typical of preseason and it's impossible to say for sure at this point. I think it will be about the same as last year.

I had to quote this just to give props for the use of alacrity. Don't know when the last time I saw that in actual use. Great job! :thumb:

The only really significant piece that we lost from last season was a reliable #2 CB in Sean Smith. No, he wasn't an All-Pro calibre CB but he was above average and did a bunch of things really well with his size and strength.

It remains to be seen if Gaines or someone else could be close to as effective as Smith was at RCB. I do have more faith in Gaines' ball skills, quickness, and overall speed than I did in Sean Smith's.

I don't trust the rookies not to **** up.

It's been said before, but Gaines and Ford are the keys on defense. Either way I don't think we'll be nearly as bad as some people are worrying/expecting based on the first two preseason games.

A poll about the defense after two meaningless preseason games in which key starters were out?

How are you supposed to judge this? Do you go back and compare to the first 2 preseason games of last year?

Every team has their deficiencies and ours happens to be one that more than half the teams in the league also have. Our schedule gives our defense some leeway with working out the wrinkles.

I wouldn't say that Smith is the only significant piece lost from last year. For starters, Houston is missing for an indefinite amount of time. That's pretty significant. The retirement of Abdullah and free agent loss of Branch, while not as big of a loss as Smith and Houston, is still significant. Their replacements are Sorenson and the rookie Murray or Flemming. Any way you slice it, there is a significant drop off there. Hopefu;;y the young guys step up and close those gaps soon. But let's not pretend that they are currently the same caliber players.

It's true we lost significant depth and a lot of experience in the secondary with Abdullah and Branch departing.

Abdullah was a good instinctive football player but he had some athletic limitations.

Branch was just the opposite. Great overall speed and athleticism, not so great in the instincts department. Despite his speed, he always seemed to be a step behind in coverage.

For the rookie DBs, I honestly haven't been paying as much attention to them as I should, been focusing more on the front 7 on defense, but obviously you notice when they **** up.

How has Russell been doing? Why hasn't he seen much time in the Pre-Season games? He literally only got 4 snaps against the Rams.

Why have both White and Murray had more time on the field than Russell has?

I've wondered about Russell myself. I expected to see him get significant playing time this preseason. 4 snaps last game is crazy. As far as I know, he hasn't been hurt. Camp reports didn't mention anything about him struggling. Maybe he will play more tomorrow.

Yeah, I doubt it has anything to do with injury, otherwise they wouldn't have played him for 32 snaps the week before.

Maybe it's just a planned rotation thing and they'll work him in a lot more this week? Maybe they were just giving White a chance to show his stuff against the Rams and will give Russell his shot this week.

I hope that Gaines is healthy enough to go tomorrow. I want to see what he looks like after he tore his ACL.

A slight step back until our rookies and second year guys get their sea legs under them... but by the time Houston gets back for the last 4 games, those young guys (especially Jones) will be tuned up and well oiled

At that point we're going to take a big step forward and start ripping some jokers heads off

lets play a real game first.

Meh, nothing wrong with a little speculation, thats 75% of what we do around here

Worse

It has a chance to be a steaming pile of shit this year.

I think it depends on a number of factors. Will the young secondary gel? Does Houston come back late in the year? Can Ford hold up against the run? I just can't see this unit improving from last year. I'm guessing they take a step back, I just hope it's not a big step back.

Dude, please explain yourself here...

Interesting. One vote for better. I hope whoever voted that is right, and maybe towards the end of the season, assuming Houston is back and the young guys have improved, he will be right. But right now, no way.

Every year with this team (and in particular the defense) has guys unexpectedly step up and grow into good players. Why should this year be any different?

Jones, Ford, Gaines, Nelson, March, White, Murray.

A couple of those guys will exceed expectations this year. Guaranteed.

I think we are obviously going to be worse early on, but as the season goes on, and when/if we get Houston back, it could be just as good.

This.

We have had such a small sample size with the starters out there. Based on the camp reports- the defense has held its own against a much improved O-line. Except for Hill torching everyone that is.

Good thing Hill is on the Chiefs. :)

sure!! :D

1. When does Houston come back ... how healthy? How long before he's his impact self?
2. When is Hali going to breakdown completely because of age?
3. Dee Ford is a major piece this year, what does he do? Has looked terrible thus far ... T.E.R.R.B.L.E.
4. Young secondary is a mess, does anyone step-up? Get/stay healthy?
5. If 1 or more of the above does not turn out well, is Sutton able to adapt?

I'll be brutally honest here, in spite of the pitchforks and torches that will result.

I don't trust Sutton.

He needs too many things for his defense to be good(Goonther Cunninham anyone?) You can measure his adjustment by the week, if not months ... when good DC's adjust by the Half, if not by the drive. Anyone think that Sutton will know how to deal with an Edelmann situation yet? I don't. If he can't just assign a man to the Edelmann's of the league and move on, he's lost. If Sutton doesn't have a ready-made pass rush he is almost incapable of generating pressure through scheme.

Theoritical defensive breakdown by steps:

1. Houston is gone and Hali has finally lost that last step that doesn't let him turn the corner anymore. Our automatic pass rush is all but gone.

Result: Sutton goes into a shell, rushes 4 and drops everyone else DEEP in coverage to prevent the big play. Our corners our 15+ yrds off LoS. Our MLBs are bailing hard back into pass coverage at the snap. Sutton has done all this before, it's not speculation to think he will do it again.

2. Our young cornerbacks struggle in their initial NFL playing time.

Result: Sutton can't go man-to-man on the outside except for with Peters. Teams just throw away from Peters all game long until he gets frustrated and tries to do too much. To adjust Sutton throws more and more safeties out there on the field in an umbrella zone coverage. Again, Sutton has reacted similarly in the past.

3. Because of 1 and 2, teams just decide to wear us out on defense. Dink/dunk passes and run the ball against our outnumbered Dline. With everyone pulled back in coverage our front 4 will be going against 5 Oline, a TE and RB chip blocks. We will be dying by a 1000 cuts. By the 4th quarter our defense will be worn out especially if Sutton continues to refuse to rotate his Dlineman.

4. Because of 1,2 and 3, our conservative offense will be forced to try to score 35+ points a game without benefit of defensive turnovers or scores. That means Uber Conservative Reid will need to stop throwing sideways. Alex Smith will have to start taking hit,taking chances and air it out. That will almost certainly result in a few more turnovers, if not a bunch. That leaves our defense in a short field situation more than normal.


All theoretical, but if that snowball begins to roll down hill it COULD get really ugly. There is precedence ... Sutton had done it before, Reid has done it before.

A full year of bend-don't-break defense that allows offenses to go the length of the field almost every drive. Counting on giving up field goals instead of touchdowns once they get to the red zone.

:(

(ps i typed this really fast so forgive my many typos and slip-ups please)

Dadi Nicolas is going to gain 45% strength in season and take the starting job from Ford

How has he looked in games? I forgot that we had drafted an OLB prospect.

First off, that was a joke. Chiefshrink said that Ehinger would gain 45% strength in season.

LMAO

Nicolas looked really good against Seattle.

I haven't watched the 2nd half of the Rams game yet and IIRC, Nicolas didn't get any first half snaps.

Teams don't game plan in the pre-season. They are very vanilla with their play calling defensively. It's more of a look at what guys can do in a variety of situations than it is anything else. Don't put so much damn stock into pre-season. The defense might regress slightly without Houston, but I wouldn't count on the wheels falling off.

That was a detailed take, Laz... and also completely full of shit


I only kid :D


I share some of those same concerns, but would take exception to a few

1) no reason to think we cant go man to man outside, Gaines still needs some seasoning no question and it will show early on... but his talent was clearly evident when given the chance

2) not sure how the D line is outnumbered, cant remember the last time we had such good looking depth along the line

3) if "Sutton continues to rotate the D line", how does that help teams wear us down? If anything, the defensive trench is one area that can really help keep us in the game this year

Yeah I know. Was just wondering about Nicolas because I haven't really paid attention to him.

The only rookie in the front 7 that I pay close attention to is Jones. Jones looks great and it doesn't feel like a stretch to say that he will be our most disruptive interior pass rusher this year.

Maybe Jones' presence in the middle will help make up for a lack of Justin Houston early on this season.

Sutton has proven that he can gameplan to beat average teams with a piece missing on defense. He did it 2014 when we lost DJ/DeVito/Berry and then 2015 when he lost Houston going a combined 15-7.

We don't play too many great offenses in the first half of the season, but there will be a few games like PIT, IND and New Orleans.

I'm not too big on Ford, but I do think Gaines will be a solid corner. The guy looked really good in the 2 1/2 games he played last year. Looked like he figured it out and the game slowed down for him.

I think Jones will end up being a big part of this defense down the road. Don't need him yet, though it would help. Gaines is the most likely to step up from that group. Ford isnt going to be a bust in my opinion but I don't think he will ever be able to be to number 1 option. His football iq seems low and I worry a lot if he is needed to produce as the number 1 if hali shows age.

Ford and somebody besides Gaines needs to grow up fast in the secondary. That's assuming gaines steps up. If gaines and Ford don't show they are ready this year it could be a very up and down season on defense.

Sutton continues to "REFUSE" to rotate the Dline.

Dline is outnumber if you drop the rest of the Defense into deep coverage. I tried to explain about corners lined 15+ yrds off the LoS. LBs bailing backwards at the snap. If all that happens then the defensive line is pretty much all by itself at the LoS. That really hurt our run defense and allows teams to throw short pass uncontested.

Reid will call it "keeping everything in front of us" but it still results in teams going from the 20 to the 20 too easily. Time of possession with be hurt and our redzone defense will be hanging on for dear life.

Sutton can gamplan against average teams because they don't have QB's that can pick your apart all the way down the field.

I hope to hell that Gaines is everything that people think he is.

cross fingers

Going into the 2017 Draft, we will most likely draft defense the first 2 rounds which is comforting seeing how DB may still be a problem and with Berry potentially leaving. Our offense is stacked with talent for many years giving us that flexibility. With Jones we have that security blanket at DL and Howard will still be on the roster.

We can still wait til 2018 before going big on a QB if we don't happen to find that diamond in the rough.

Looked good today with Gaines back. Mostly vets on the field meant no more rookie mistakes like there were the past 2 weeks. Hopefully Russell, White, and Murray watch tape on how the vets play in this defense.

March has also had a nice day.

Yeah but take it with a grain of salt.

Bears starters have scored 11 points all preseason. They're gonna be horrible this year.

Just about everyone looked good today, except Fleming.


Let's hope it continues.

Jones, Ford, Nicolas and March all flashed today.

Ford's tackling and containment was much better this week, from what I recall.

That's true too. But they have faced a pretty brutal Pre-season lineup.

Broncos D. Cutler went 3/4, 18 yards.

Patriots D. Cutler went 8/12, 83 yards.



Langford went 8 for 55 yards vs the Pats, 4 for 7 vs Broncos.

Cutler had a lot more snaps against our team and went 6/15 for 45 yards. The vast majority of the positive plays came against our backups.

Shhh can't say anything positive about Ford. It's not aloud on CP.

Chris Jones has th potential to be a dominant stud, thus making Poe's seeming decline less evident. If Jones truly ascends with ability tobe a force in both the passrush and run. It is my belief the Chiefs will use more 4 man front alignments and ultimately cut loose Poe and keep Bailey/Howard. Unless Dontari is loafing or not giving full effort then he's gone after this season.