Squirmin Herman on ESPN radio trashing Fishers offense
 

On Rusillo and Kannel saying Fishers offense sets back football 50 years.

**** Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards. That is all.

that stupid ****ing POS damn near killed the Chiefs Franchise and set us back 50 years...

Stupid ****ing POS and all the people that supported his dumb ****ing ass can eat a ebolaids filled gobstopper...

Worthless ****ing POS ever to live.

I think Hitler might have been worse...by like a smidge...:spock:

You guys remember all the homers on here who wanted to keep him as a HC or hire him on as a GM after King Carl was fired.

Hahaha....endless rep to any CP'er that sends Buehler an autographed Herm 8×10 for Christmas.

No he didn't.

the world is unfair. How is Herm even allowed to breathe? Let alone be on TV.

He took a roster full of dead dicks with the worst cap situation and within a few years left a team with a tremendous cap situation and some young talent to build off of. He didn't set us back 50years. He was the person who prevented that from happening.

I will need an address to hook him up..I will get it signed "With love from Herm"

Sounds like a plan... I see the Buehlers often... He would love me forever...

PM me.. I have it.

I believe he lives on West Kansas. We're likely gonna have to contact the Pony Express.

Ship it to Reerun, and let him have the delivery video taped.

This seems like the best way to go about it

Buehler_445 is a big ol country boy... Dude would probably whip my ass for giving it to him...

But I am pretty sure I can still out run the guy even at my age... He looks slow as sloth rape.

Then he did you guys a favor. The Chiefs were pretty good 50 years ago. Lately, not so much.

Reerun is into buttstuff

Wow, it's great to see you posting again!

I've really missed your bitching about a coach fired almost nine years ago.

I loved the Herm years but when Andy gets dumped at the end of the year I hope you guys bring Romeo back. He will eventually field a winner and you don't want to miss being on that train when he does!

LOL

Ive missed you also and I know you have... Its good to be bashing that **** Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards.


:D

Did you know that the Pony Express only lasted 19 months?

http://ponyexpress.org/history/

ROFLROFL Nothing would get Reerun_KC worked up like Herm. How Huard did not make a ProBowl is beyond me.

I had some meltdowns back in the day that is for sure...

ROFL

I just pictured Buehler in his tractor with the grain cart running corn over the edge of the semi bin, screaming fire at the radio while his dad is sprinting at him waving his hands yelling at him to turn the auger off.

I wrote that while I was closing sprinkler tracks. No shoveling necessary on behalf of Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of. But Edwards.

I will **** Punt you back to the land of red dirt and necks.

ROFL

My brother told me they make an implement that does that now.


Technology. For. The. Win.

ROFL

Classic

Reerun or I could fly a banner around his house..........

"Buehler is a Proud Hermine", or whatever Clay called it back in the day.

OH HELLZ YES. I know exactly where the farm is located.

Buehler will you marry me / Herm

LMAO


Winner.

Not this ****ing shit again. I already went through the entire roster for DV and Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards and there were more players that played 3 years with DV than Herm <---your metrics.

Besides that, many teams shed big contracts without being downright sorry.

Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack o **** Edwards is a shit coach. Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards is a shit personnel man. Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards is a shit analyst (hot take schtick factory)

****ing End. You are wrong.

Herm was bitching about another coach running a conservative offense.


R2P2 term was invented because of that mother ****er.

He did draft that one guy, though. You've gotta give him credit for that.

Glorious

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M...=0&w=300&h=300

R2P2...My God. I never needed to hear that ****ing term again. :facepalm:

Dick Vermeil's mismanagement left the Chiefs with the oldest roster in the history of the team, and a cap situation that took several years to climb out of. Don't throw that BS that this would have easily been climbed out of. It was a catastrophe. Herm may not have been a good coach. But he inherited a shit sandwich and the situation he left behind was a GM's wet dream.

I will never understand the hate for the guy. He may not have been a good coach. But it is INDISPUTABLE that he took a shitty situation and he left behind a GM's wet dream of a roster/situation. Blame Herm for where he was terrible. Blaming him for the piece of shit roster and situation he inherited is incredibly wrong.

It was the drafts during the Vermeil era that ****ed us up.

Not Herm.

Meh.. Herm just doesn't get my blood boiling.

Should he have been fired? Yeah.

Was he a worse HC than Romeo, or Gunt-her for that matter?
No.

100% agree.
-And the years of restructuring contracts like Green's and Holmes and every expensive aging veteran we have like a ballooning subprime mortgage that became a ticking time bomb. We ended up $26M over the cap with a ton of handcuffs. That's what Vermeil left behind.
-And signing old guys to massive contracts at the end of their careers like Wesley and Woods that handcuffed to massive contracts for declining players

Vermeil got talent because he spent a SHITLOAD of money. And then he borrowed on credit. Then borrowed debt on top of that credit. Then borrowed again and again and again. They built that roster for one last run in 2005, to hell with how much it would **** the Chiefs up in the future. They ended up going 6-10. And yet, for all the pitchforks around Herm, Vermeil gets treated with kid's gloves.

And while we're on the topic. I think we can close the book on the idea that haley was a terrible offensive coach. I sure wouldn't mind him running our offense right now.

You remain unequivocally incorrect. The last time we got into this argument you said you couldn't think of 10 guys that had 3 year careers. I went through each player on each roster and proved that Dick Vermiel had assembled a group of more players that played an additional 3 years than "personnel Jesus" Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards. THAT is indisputable.

****ing GMs wet dream My hairy ****ing ass. There was. I ****ing talent on the team. At all. Such a GMs wet dream that NO ****ING GMs WANTED ANY OF THOSE MOTHER****ERS. On any team. Sure they were cheap, they were also trash. That does nobody any good.

If I get off this tractor before midnight I'll dig up the posts.

Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards was an axe man. And largely like axe men in business, he cut the payroll expense and was horrible at everything else. Anybody can be an axe man. You could literally walk in the door, cut all the high salaries, draft dudes that are rated high and do as well as that mongoloid. But I bet you wouldn't stand in front of the media and rail on Vermiels "circus offense", would understand that passing isn't the debbil all while being an arrogant one who sucks the penis blathering on about tough football while fielding a miraculously soft team.

**** that guy.

That I'm on board with. It's a shame his HC regime had to be under Franchise Killer Pioli. I don't know if he would have been good at HC, but he had no chance under Pioli.

However that job becomes easier when you have Big Ben and Brown.

Dick Vermeil had 5 years. 5 drafts, 38 picks, and only 6 amounted to literally anything (I'm being VERY generous with Jimmy Wilkerson. And that includes a punter). Herm had 3 years and brought in 7 (and that's being very generous leaving Dorsey and Page off the list).

Dick Vermeil built a roster of long-term players because he spent a shitload on free agents. Free agents are known commodities. Vermeil gave big contracts to: Trent Green, Priest, Wiegmann, Roaf, Kennison, Morton, Shawn Barber, Dexter McCleon, Patrick Surtain, Kendrell Bell, Carlos Hall, John Welbourn, Sammy Knight. 13 PLAYERS. Herm spent on Damion McIntosh, Ty Law, and Napoleon Harris. DV's personnel success came from signing a LOT of high-priced talent, and hemmoraging the cap to do so.

Being an axe man wasn't easy. Again, Vermeil/Peterson restructured these contracts to death and gave long-term contracts to geriatrics, so there was a massive amount of dead money. And it's well known that Herm went over peterson's head and direct to Clark Hunt to get the axes laid down. In an NFL where coaches get blamed for 1 bad season, it was incredibly bold for Herm to accept losing seasons to clean up the roster.

It does get easier, but he also did a spectacular job with Martavius Bryant and now Sammie Coates. And transitioning Big Ben into a pocket QB wasn't easy, but he did it extremely well. It would be pretty cool to see him coach for a GM like Dorsey.

Doesn't matter how they came. Vermiel had more young guys that had an NFL career than Herm. As bad as Vermiel was at drafting -was he even involved? I don't know - Herm was as bad at FA pickups. Like I said, there were more guys that played 3 years when Vermiel was done than Herm. That's embarrassing.

And yes, being an axe man is easy if you don't give a flying feces about winning. It's easy. Trade anything with value. Cut everyone else, sign whomever the **** walks in the door. Crow about being young. Play shit ball. Easy peasy.

Buehler_445 needs less red bull on tractor days....

No Red Bull. Eating sunflower seeds to stay awake. And apparently fighting the ONE GUY that thinks Herm is anything above tunny hog shit.

It's not embarrassing. Vermeil was trying to win games. Herm was trying to rebuild. Herm didn't have any major free agent pickups because he wasn't trying. That's pretty unfair to compare a guy with a blank check and bank full of money and loans to a guy who is $25M in debt and told he has to sell his house, his car, everything to clean up his finances -- when you're forced to sell your house, you're not exactly looking to spend on luxury items.

If Herm was given 5 years and was allowed 13 high priced free agents, we'll see how he would have done. I'm glad he didn't get 5 years. But to blame him for sitting on not just a hill, but a mountain of someone else's debt?

And no, rebuilding isn't easy. A coach has to swallow a lot of pride and accept losses. The easier thing to do would have been to convince Peterson to pay for a few high-priced band-aids. He could have made that a 6-10 team. Sadly, in KC we would look more fondly on a band-aided 7-9 team that ****ed over our future than a 2-14 team that set us up nicely for the future. And in the case of Herm, he had to rebel against his GM to make it happen. You may not agree with what moves he made, but without a shadow of a doubt, he made the right move by demolishing that roster. Any team who made that decision would have had a very bad season for probably 2 or 3 years. I don't know how it's even a debate that blowing up Vermeil's remaining roster was completely the right thing to do.

Herm didn't rebuild shit. The franchise wasn't set up nicely for the future. Sure cap wasn't bad, but theee was no talent. That's not set up. That's not rebuilt. That's driving 100MPH into a tree with a paid for sports car. Sure you don't owe money on the car, but it isn't worth a damn thing.

To go along with your analogy, just because a dude cleans up debt doesn't mean he is making sound financial decisions. Paying 1,200 a month for a refrigerator box is dumb. Yes it's better than $2,500/month house payments. It it's still a shit decision.

Herm took a mediocre to above average team and basically made them an expansion team.

1. No money tied up.
2. No talent
3. No winning culture, nothing to build on.
4. A couple extra picks.

That's an expansion team man. You're the only guy I know that will say, sure. I'd like to be an expansion team.

The Chiefs aren't the only idiots to overpay for old guys. It doesn't necessitate wrecking the ****ing franchise.

And I'm not saying making major changes to Vermiels roster was inherently bad. Filling it with the jokers Herm did was bad. Every regime change brings personnel change. If you fill up the team with garbage, you're a shot personnel guy. Herm is a shit personnel guy.

Not everyone here likes Herm. For good reason. But I know even the biggest Herm haters mostly recognize that the team Herm inherited... there was no choice but to wrecking ball that shit. Not fix it. Blow it up to smithereens and start over.

Herm didn't inherit a mediocre to average team as much as you want to say it. He inherited a team of grossly overpaid, expensive but uncuttable geriatrics. A better coach could have gotten more out of them than Herm did in year 1 (though getting to the playoffs behind Damon Huard is much better than some coaches would do). But after that year or 2, not even Bill Bellichick could have saved this team quickly. You act as if he inherited a workable team then crushed it. He inherited a team that was 1 snowball away from an avalanche.

And the Chiefs didn't just "pay for old guys" during the Vermeil era. They stockpiled on old veterans. Gave old veterans like Wesley and Woods enormous long-term deals that handcuffed them WAY beyond their prime. And to afford their drunk spending binge, they restructured the living hell out of contracts like Trent Green and Priest Holmes to the point where they were exploding back-end timebombs. It was a perfect storm that came from a GM intent on milking that team dry for 2 last playoff runs in 2004 and 2005. This was not just some ordinary cap purge. This was the Titanic. Not only were they $25M over the cap (remember... this was 10 years ago -- that is enormous), they were badly handcuffed to unworkable contracts.

For reference:
Here is what the GM inherited. I am saying "GM" because Scott Pioli wrecking that defense apart to install a 3-4 was incredibly stupid:

Defense:
DL: Hali-Tyler/Ron Edwards-Dorsey-McBride
LBs: Demorrio Williams-Shit-DJ
CB: Carr-Flowers
S: Page-Pollard

Offense:
QB: No QB
OL: Albert-Waters-Wade Smith-McIntosh-Barry Richardson
RB: Charles/LJ
WR: Bowe-shit-shit
TE: Tony Gonzalez

The Chiefs needed a QB, 1 or 2 WRs, 2 OL (at least), 2 LBs, 1-2 DL. That's 7-8 new starters.

Sound familiar? We've seen GMs fill that type of roster before. With $7M, John Dorsey brought in a QB, a WR (Avery), a Guard (Schwartz), a DT (Devito), an ILB (Jordan), a CB (Sean Smith). In addition to drafting 2 starters (Fisher, Kelce/Fasano). That's 8 new starters.

Imagine what Dorsey would have done with $50M in cap space if he inherited that roster above (in 2009 cap money).

You are still totally missing the point. You can deflect blame to Vermiel all you want but the bottom line is the dudes Herm brought in were trash. Sure he couldn't go bring in Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison for the offense and Ed Reed and Ray Lewis for the defense but that does not excuse the trash he brought in.

For ****s sake, Dorsey brought in six guys off the waiver wire that got meaningful snaps on a playoff team. Just because you aren't in the market for marquee free agents does not excuse bringing in absolute ****ing trash players that no GM of any team wants.

Oh, god. We've got to get Reerun to deliver a ****ing stack of autographed 8x10s.

I never said herm was a personnel genius. I thought he was solid but unspectacular. Thats different from trash.

It takes an elite personnel guy to build off a bare roster using only draft picks and pulling everything from the scrap heap. So if that's the knock on him, that's really unfair expectations. Herm made the right call to demolish the roster. He and kuharich were pretty effective in drafting (brought in more talent in 3 years than Pioli did in 4 yrs...vermeil in 5yrs). And while he didn't bring in much free agent talent, he also purposely chose not to and deserves credit for his restraint.

I'm not comparing herm with the best. But you're comparing him to the worst, and that just aient. I'm not missing the point at all. I don't believe bandaiding the roster was even an option. So if the only option is to build through the draft and the scrap pile, I recognize that that is going to be a lot longer and more difficult process to find talent than if you binged on proven free agents or inherited a mega roster from your predecessor.

Dude. You are misremembering. It's late and I have to be out early tomorrow but dig up the thread the last time we debated this. He'll look it up yourself, the roster when he was done was a joke. Making the call to blow it up is one thing actually doing it in an effective manner is quite another. Herm was like a bear cub playing with his dick. He was a total and abject failure. He had a handful of good players after 3 years!

It's insane. Give it up.

I'm off to bed.

I posted the roster above. But I'll do it for you. He brought in Charles, Albert, flowers, carr, Hali, bowe, glenn Dorsey, Barry Richardson, Wade Smith, Ron Edwards, pollard, page. That is more than a handful. 7 of those guys started for many years. Richardson, Smith, Dorsey, page, Edwards were adequate enough to start.

That's while spending barely any new money on free agents. Even a good game is lucky to hit on one quality scrap haul player and landing 3 quality players in one draft is considered excellent. Over 3 years, that's 12 players.

But you keep comparing him to either elite gms or gms who spend a shit load of money on free agents. And most of those gms, by the way, are building rosters that probably have more than half of their starting roster already set with decent enough talent. Herm spent virtually no money and within 3 years, only had 1/4 of vermeils roster worth keeping.

Well this escalated quickly. Buehler_445 issuing a classic CP beatdown...

You get them to me and I will personally fly out to western kansas, pick up Notorious and we will hand deliver them to Buehler_445.

It would be a filmed and documented trip.

There are plenty of people who agree that:
1) herm inherited a really really bad roster because of vermeil
2) herm made the right and bold decision to blow the roster up, despite Petersons resistance

And there are plenty who understand that comparing herm, who had not only no money to work with, but massive debt on top of an Embarrassingly poor young pipeline of players, to coaches with established rosters and semi stable spending power is completely unreasonable.

I have plenty of support on those points, even from those who acknowledge that herm was a shitty coach.

Aren't we still blaming Vermeil for 100% of Herm's failures?

Herm is a joke of a coach. There's a reason he wasn't going to take a DC job after he left KC. He can't do it. There's a reason the Jets were going to fire him.

KC lost draft picks to acquire a 4-12 coach who was going to get fired anyway. The team not only declined every season, but actually declined as the season progressed. I can't believe anyone would still defend this clown.

His only claim to fame was that Carl Traded Jared Allen netting a load of picks in one of the deepest drafts in recent memory. A person could have thrown darts at a list while blindfolded and hit on half of those picks.

The issue is that the herm critics are blaming herm 100% for vermeils failures. Nobody is saying vermeil is 100% responsible for herms failures. Herm wasn't a good coach. We all acknowledge that.

More importantly, his haters are feeding the illusion that he took a good team and sent it to the trash. That's complete nonsense. He inherited a ticking time bomb and he had two losing seasons because he made the right decision to blow the roster up. Maybe bad coaching costed the team a few wins. But they still would have been a losing team regardless of who coached them.

Herm was not a good coach. But that's separate from what he did with personnel.

Jesus ****ing Christ. Page was trash after we cut him. Pollard did OK but was always garbage in coverage. Wade Smith was bleh. Richardson was garbage. Did he even get another job? Ron Edwards did ****all after we let him go.

That's 11 guys and half of them are depth at best. Way to go man. That's ****ing 20%. He had 3 years, 159 roster spots to work with that you can roll each week for 16 games. Not to mention the opportunity to bring in HUNDREDS of guys to look at at camps and workouts and he came up with ****ing ELEVEN? **** man. That's a joke.

And I'm not comparing him to elite dudes. If he's literally HORRIBLE at everything and you're grandstanding him as just what the Chiefs needed he better come up with more than 20% of a ****ing team. That's abysmal.

And we're off!!!

Peeroy was an undercover Hermine member. No doubt.

One of these days Buehler_445. I want to sit down and hear how you really feel about Herm....

Nah. He will be right back here to say that Vermiel had it SOOOO screwed up that it's not possible to assemble more than 20% of a team in 1,000 days.

Ben makes every OC look great though. Haley gets credit for letting them still play that way though.

How many draft picks + scrap haul free agents did Dick Vermeil bring in in 5 years? How about Scott Pioli in 4 years? It was less than what Herm brought in in 3 years. Go ahead and look it up. I don't know what your expectation is for how many players get plucked from the draft and scrap haul. Usually 3 from the draft and 1 or 2 from the scrap haul per year, and that's considered a good year. And don't compare him to a guy like Dorsey, who's been excellent at building scrap haul. Most teams build the back-end of their roster through years upon year and years of roster development.

The difference is... these guys were trying to build to win. Herm was trying to clean up the roster. We went from a $25M overage to $50M under in just 3 years. That's a $75M payroll swing.

Big Ben actually was very resistant to what Haley wanted to do. He used to be a freelancer, but everyone could see it was taking a toll on his body. Haley forced him into a pocket offense with quicker reads. It was exactly the change Ben needed at this stage of his career.

So your standard is roster spots? Because it sure sounds like you're scrutinizing starters. You realize every roster has 10-20 spots reserved for players who'd be garbage in a starting role? And role players like STs? Ok, by that standard, we filled out half of a starting lineup and easily over 25% of a standard roster. Notice that the total payroll for all of these guys probably averaged less than $1M.

Indisputable Starters (7):
Dwayne Bowe
Bernard Pollard
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers
Tamba Hali
Jamaal Charles
Brandon Albert

Good enough to start (4)
Glenn Dorsey
Demorrio Williams
Ron Edwards
Wade Smith

Roster role players (2):
Connor Barth
Thomas Gafford

Became solid players (2)
Dmitri Patterson
Wallace Gilberry
Jason Babin

Decent roster depth (1):
John McGraw

Back of roster guys (4):
Jarrad Page
Tyler Thigpen (backup QB)
Turk McBride
Barry Richardson