Pioli/Cassel vs Reid/Smith
 

Are we reliving history again????


Debate.... Go!

*Neither will admit fault in their QB, Neither will make changes to better the team, both would rather lose than be proven wrong...

And crap forgot to add the pole.... NO stripper pole for you today...

:rolleyes:

Toss in Schottenheimer/Grbac vs. Gannon as well, almost the same idea albeit in a single season rather multiple seasons.

Why not go full Herm/Croyle?

Ownership doesn't believe there is a problem.

Of course they don't, the stadium is filled, it's the 90's all over again. Clark has recreated the same thing his father did in the 90's with Marty and Carl.

You can throw Dorsey in the mix as well. During the season he probably leaves it up to Andy as most GM's would except for Pioli who forced Cassel to start but Dorsey has final say in players in the off season. If he brings back Smith then he's is part of the problem.

He has shown some brains so lets hope he's not that stupid and can try and reverse his biggest blunder. I believe Foles was brought in with next season in mind if Smith continued to suck. Well, Smith has been worse than ever so Dorsey had better do what any GM would do and get rid of him.

Let's see..

Pioli/Cassel=1 Playoff appearance, 0 wins
Reid/Smith=2 Playoff appearances, 1 win

Pioli/Casse/=1 winning season
Reid/smith=3 and soon to be 4 winning seasons

I don't think there is much comparison

Clark Hunt = common denominator. I feel like that guy is more involved in these sorts of things than commonly believed.

Reid never would have been hired had he said his plan required drafting and developing a QB.

Is OP an idiot?

(rhetorical question )

I see this as more Marty/Deberg, but with worse play-calling and clock management. Playoff results are tracking to be similar.

I see the comparison..but Cassel was one of the worst qbs ever to play in a kc uniform.

Smith isn't that. But he's a mediocre at best qb, and he's reached his ceiling.

He has what..9td 4int ? Something like that.... in 10 games. Those are awful numbers. He's only cracked the 20td mark 2x in his 11yr career. Remember this is a qb that couldn't get his wr a td for over a yr. You almost have to try to accomplish that on purpose..especially in today's game.

While his int rate is low, the type of football smith plays gives him little to no margin of error. So if he does **** up, it's game changing and the Chiefs aren't the type of team that's going to come back if they're down a couple scores.

It's the same shit. Chiefs have all the talent in the world to win a sb..except they lack the sports most important position.

I dislike Smith, but Cassel was just a fraud of a QB. An absolute fraud.

Smith's body of work over the years, both positives and negatives, speak for themselves.

Cassel went to Dallas and fans were pissed they dumped Brandon Weeden. That's how bad Cassel is.

I understand the dynamic is what is being compared, but that's also ridiculous. KC is having some level of success (though we all know this team lacks the ceiling to be real SB threat) with winning season, playoff appearances, and playoff wins. Cassel was dragging KC to the doldrums. He was a complete liability going out and routinely losing games with his play.

/Thread

Good grief this place just loves to go back to the worst of times and say it's always just as bad now as it was then.

Reid comes with his issues, we knew this, Smith has his limitations, we know this, it's still not close to the same as Cassel/ Pioli.

One week Dorsey is a genius the next he is just a turd like Pioli.

Imagine if we weren't 7-3.

/thread

Reid and Smith deserve credit, they're a competent duo that competes in the NFL - which is far, far more than Pioli and Cassel could ever take credit for.

A more apt comparison is Carl/Marty. Bring me those regular season wins, boys!

Same guys. This is 2010, again.


Close games over shit teams, one and done in the playoffs. Rinse, repeat.

Maybe the question should be:
How many sub 0.500 seasons are we willing to endure with a rookie/developing QB?

Follow up question:
Really? We won't be throwing fits in season 2?

Just remember he has 11 seasons under his belt and he's still a below average QB. He's a low tier 3 QB.

HaleyCassel=ReidSmith

Haley is the better coach/play caller, but Smith {was} more talented than Cassel.

If Haley had Dorsey, he'd be unstoppable. But Haley wouldn't settle for Alex Smith at QB.

Haley>Reid>Crennel
Dorsey>Pioli
Smith>Cassel

Anyone want to know what the difference between the Chiefs was between Crennell, I would say about 6-8 wins a season.

Why are some of us okay with shitty play from a vet in season 11...but not okay with a youngster in season 2?

Yesterday's loss is far more acceptable from a QB with less than 20 starts under his belt. Not Alex "Game Manager" Smith.

Saying Andy won't make a change right now isn't the same as Pioli and Cassel. We won a playoff game last year, so the expectation was that we do more this season.

We've already heard a rumor that Alex will have to have a strong 2nd half to remain here. It's also no surprise that we put an option for Foles next year.

If Alex keeps playing this way I think Foles will be the QB next season.

Alex will have to take Superman pills and revert to 2011-2014 form in order to even be good enough...and even that is just barely. No reason to hope...the future is now in the NFL. Foles isn't the answer. Gonna be...interesting.

I've said the same thing before. People forget that Andy drafted him and tried to trade for him but Chip said no deal. I think Dorsey has already made up his mind. The only way Alex stays is if he plays a ton better and we win the division or make the AFC Champ game.

The option on Foles was put there to give him a shot for a year if Smith failed and at the same time it allows his HC to have his draft pick as a QB. It's a win win in their eyes.

yes its certainly on a much higher level.

Anyone remember the circumstances when Reid sent McNabb to a division rival? If it was due to lack of production I believe Reid will move on from Smith if we miss the AFCCG this season.
Foles has not looked good in limited action, maybe he will with a full offseason as the likely starter.

When Cassel started to regress, some of us on here saw it and called him out. He was good enough to put up some noticeable stats for a few games stretch, but he was never going to be good enough to get us close to a championship.

A ton of other homers around here kept drinking the Cassel kool-aid with excuses like "we need a HOF oline, we need a great defense, we need more receivers".


Alex Smith is in a regression. The NFL has him figured out. Some of us on CP have figured him out. He is not getting any younger or better. His confidence is shot and you can see the offense has no desire to compete at a high level.
Nothing you can do is going to make him better.

So... Does Alex Smith make as many Mistakes as Cassel on the field? No.
But is this scenario the same? Yes.

Either QB is not good enough to do any more than win a few games and keep the season ticket holders buying tickets.


The Chiefs are once again stuck in mediocrity.

Meanwhile, the Cowboys are letting a rookie QB tear it up and letting their golden boy sit the bench. I wish our franchise had those balls.

most reasonable response in the thread, it starts and ends w/ Chunt

I posted in another thread last night that I was having knee sugery today. I survived! I'm back for the shitshow!

No one thinks that Smith/Reid is on the same level as Cassel/Pioli/Haley. However, most people believe that Smith/Reid has peaked. Look, I loved the Marty years, but I'm turning 41 next month. I really don't have time for this shit. I guess I should just be content with the 2014-2015 Royals.

If he had mini camp and training camp as the starter I find it hard to believe he would be worse. There is no way we would not score more points but he would throw a few more int's but our threat to get TD's would help our ground game a ton.

He would have beat Houston and probably won yesterday as well.

Kyle should charge you for making shit threads like this.

What rumor?

Why do so many people think Foles is a good QB?

cHunt needs a washing.

Reid is likely going to end up as one of the 10 winningest coaches in the history of football. He has his flaws for sure, but to even compare him to a GM who completely gutted this franchise is a joke.

It's more like Marty and the other niner qbs.

Amazing, he'll be right behind another former Chiefs coaching legend who won a lot of games...none of them being the Super Bowl.

Great, let's build a statue. A monument. Outside of Gates down on Cleaver II.

Need to induce vomiting? Take a gander at our list of starting qbs. Not a single QB who even belongs in the modern, forward pass-era of football for a decade, since 2006. How can one franchise be so utterly inept at acquiring talent for by far the most important position on the team? This is very obviously the essence of why they've won zero championships in 46 years.

2016 Alex Smith (7) / Nick Foles (1)
2015 Alex Smith (16)
2014 Alex Smith (15) / Chase Daniel (1)
2013 Alex Smith (15) / Chase Daniel (1)
2012 Matt Cassel (8) / Brady Quinn (8)
2011 Matt Cassel (9) / Tyler Palko (4) / Kyle Orton (3)
2010 Matt Cassel (15) / Brodie Croyle (1)
2009 Matt Cassel (15) / Brodie Croyle (1)
2008[e] Brodie Croyle (3) / Tyler Thigpen (11) / Damon Huard (2)
2007 Brodie Croyle (10) / Damon Huard (6)
2006 Trent Green (8) / Damon Huard (8)
2005 Trent Green (16)
2004 Trent Green (16)
2003 Trent Green (16)
2002 Trent Green (16)
2001 Trent Green (16)
2000 Elvis Grbac (15) / Warren Moon (1)
1999 Elvis Grbac (16)
1998 Rich Gannon (10) / Elvis Grbac (6)
1997 Elvis Grbac (10) / Rich Gannon (6)
1996 Steve Bono (13) / Rich Gannon (3)
1995 Steve Bono (16)
1994 Joe Montana (14) / Steve Bono (2)
1993 Joe Montana (11) / Dave Krieg (5)
1992 Dave Krieg (16)
1991 Steve DeBerg (15) / Mark Vlasic (1)
1990 Steve DeBerg (16) [50]
1989 Steve DeBerg (10) / Ron Jaworski (3) / Steve Pelluer (3)
1988 Steve DeBerg (11) / Bill Kenney (5)
1987[b][d] Bill Kenney (8) / Todd Blackledge (2) / Matt Stevens (2)
Frank Seurer (2) / Doug Hudson (1)
1986 Bill Kenney (8) / Todd Blackledge (8)
1985 Todd Blackledge (6) / Bill Kenney (10)
1984 Todd Blackledge (8) / Bill Kenney (8)
1983 Bill Kenney (16)
1982[b] Bill Kenney (6) / Steve Fuller (3)
1981 Bill Kenney (13) / Steve Fuller (3)
1980 Steve Fuller (13) / Bill Kenney (3)
1979 Steve Fuller (12) / Mike Livingston (4)
1978[a] Mike Livingston (14) / Tony Adams (2)
1977 Mike Livingston (11) / Tony Adams (3)
1976 Mike Livingston (14)
1975 Mike Livingston (7) / Len Dawson (5) / Tony Adams (2)
1974 Len Dawson (8) / Mike Livingston (6)
1973 Mike Livingston (8) / Len Dawson (6)
1972 Len Dawson (12) / Mike Livingston (2)
1971 Len Dawson (13) / Mike Livingston (1)
1970 Len Dawson (12) / Mike Livingston (2)
1969 Len Dawson (7) / Jacky Lee (1) / Mike Livingston (6)
1968 Len Dawson (13) / Jacky Lee (1)
1967 Len Dawson (14)
1966 Len Dawson (14) [86]
1965 Len Dawson (12) / Pete Beathard (2)
1964 Len Dawson (14)
1963 Len Dawson (13) / Eddie Wilson (1)

Yeah, but he doesn't win the way they want to win, so he's a bad coach.

they use theirs hands on the ball...

TE sweep on the 4 yard line
resulted in a 5 yard loss
your argument is invalid
**** OC Andy

rathwer se CRAZY TODD with this talent than Andy, wann betwe would have more playoff wins, and a real super bowl shot?
this year lucky to make the playoffs...
please prove me wrong next sunday,
peters and macluin back?

It's called Kansas City disease. People honestly thought Mike Livingston was a better QB that Len Dawson. KC is the best city in the NFL to be a backup.

Yep its a disease. Cause people actually think Alex smith is a real NFL qb also...

KC is the best city in the NFL to be a bottom of the barrel NFL qb.

This is also true. We shouldn't look at Foles as the answer. There are a ton of promising young QBs in the league. We need to demand better.

Agree. But it doesn't matter who the qb is. With Reid it will be the same stats and same results.

One of these eras is winning SIGNIFICANTLY more than the other, even winning a playoff game, too. Yet the fanbase still seems as dead and depressed as always. What can you do?

I disagree. A better QB would make a difference in his play calling and this teams chances. He knows what Smith can do and what he can't do and that has to factor into his crappy play calling at times. Not that I don't think he's not an idiot at times but he drafted McNabb and went to the SB and five NFC title games. It would make a difference but with all that being said Inwould have no problem if they canned him and got a coach with better management of the game and didn't call the plays.

Do you think the CHiefs franchise got together at the beginning of the season and put down their goal as.... "hey lets get lucky and win a few games off turnovers".

No, they want to win the superbowl like every team (hopefully).

Alex Smith is never going to get that done. sorry.

Reid wanted Alex Smith from when he played at Utah. He gave up two draft picks for him because he thinks Smith fits his offense. He isn't changing his offense to suit Smith's skills, he chose Smith and his skills to fit the offense he runs.

Question is will he move on if the offense continues to stagnate? 4 years is an eternity in the same scheme to get the offense rolling.

Holy shit there are some dumb bastards on this site.

No one knows. But he would have to find a QB that suits his offensive style and is smart enough to run it because he isn't going to change his style for a QB. Will one be available? I don't know. He may think Foles is.

Could you elaborate, Mr. Genius?

Didnt he draft Foles in Philly?


Also the most disturbing fact is that we are in year 4 and still havent made strides like you would anticipated for the offense.

Last Sunday was a huge let down. We needed to lean on the offense to win that game and we we did, it buckled under the pressure.

Something has to give and its 2 things. We need and true OC to handle the game plan and play calling. Also we need a new QB... I have a feeling that this 12 year vet is permanently broken.