Should the Chiefs sign Eric Berry for 5/70m with 38m guaranteed?
 

I'm not sure any safety is worth that much.

It's not my money so sure why not?

He isn't going to get much more than $12MM per year so that deal would be epically stupid IMO.

Safety is not a position where the value is going to continue to skyrocket. It has a ceiling do to the nature of the position.

Also, the numbers are the numbers are the honey badger deal with the percentage of increase to the cap factored in.

That's ignorant.

This is a passing league and pass attempts keep going up year to year.

Safeties and corners are getting paid more and more each year.

Want to make a friendly wager he doesn't hit an average salary of $14MM his next contract?

Its about years and guaranteed $.

What does the highest paid safety not playing on a tag make? Take that contract, increase the guaranteed money and annual salary by a million, and there you have it.

no

I'm definitely interested, but I've got to get ready for work in a few.

Let's set the mark at 13.5m per year average (I know it's going to be damn close to 14m per, but it might be slightly under) and make the bet 1 year avatar rights.

Deal?

Berry deserves to be the highest paid safety in the league. If I recall, that's what we basically offered him last year, and he turned it down.

We really need to keep him, but our flexibility beyond our initial offer does have its limits. I hope he comes down a bit, because what the Chiefs will likely throw at him is more than reasonable.

No

That's exactly where I'm at.

I want Berry to be a Chief for life, but not for a blank check.

He has serious concerns, medically.

Cancer returns and he's on a huge money guaranteed deal...were ****ed
His weak Achilles tears (that's been a concern for 2 years), were ****ed
He doesn't replicate his best season ever each year, were ****ed.

At that, no.

That money can get you 2 good players. It sucks, he's a leader and a great player, but at that money, good luck and thanks for the memories eric.

It was reported that he wanted the same % as Earl Thomas, which Thomas got 13.3% of Seattle's cap ($133 million cap in 2014 divided by Thomas' $10 million avg)

We have no choice but to keep him, but the smart thing to do here is offer him a deal that's 5% higher than Honey Badger's deal in every aspect and if he refuses, tell the media that we offered him top dollar and he said no.

That's a lot of coin for a safety. That's about what TJ Ward (2 time Pro Bowler) and Darian Stewart (1 time Pro Bowler) make combined.

It's sad to think about Eric being a falcon...but I think we all need to remove the emotion from the situation and think about the situation with realistic shades on.

Honestly, I fully believe the defense will be fine if it loses Poe AND Berry.

Berry has the Chiefs by the balls.

He's stated he'll sit out this season if he's franchised and he wants to be the highest paid safety in the league.

If the Chiefs don't sign him, the court if public opinion will be staunchly against them and most likely, savage. If they do sign him to a similar deal that Boss has suggested, he could really hurt their cap for a few years, especially if he has an injury in which he misses a significant amount of time.

My gut tells me Dorsey, Reid and Hunt choose to overpay for the posistion.

He's better than both combined soooo...

Nobody cares about the Broncos third place franchise, troll.

I've defended you but lately you are nothing but a troll.

I think he's gone.

Andy said flat out last offseason that they can't pay everyone top of the league money and then they went out and drafted Murray and immediately started grooming him to be Berrys replacement.

If the public knows that the Chiefs offered him the highest contract at the position and he turns it down, then it does nothing but make Eric look like a selfish money grabber

Save the money. Tag Poe . Trade one of Bailey and Howard. Trade up in the draft and have two first round picks. Feast.

We won't have to pay a QB after 2017 so I'm fine with it.

That contract actually expires nicely when it will be time to pay our next QB.

Sure.

So happy you're not the GM of my team.

They all have similar skill sets, Berry is just a much better athlete.

I do worry about paying that much with Peters contract coming due pretty soon.

Can we afford to pay two members of our secondary top 5 contracts?

Yep.

The thing is, the Chiefs basically tagged him and told him to prove that he's worthy of the big contract. Is anyone really going to try and make the argument that he didn't prove it in the '16 season?

Seattle found a way, why not us?

They can make it work if they want I suppose. At this point, I wouldn't keep poe.

Only if we get rookie money at some other positions like QB

That was how Seattle was able to pay Sherman and earl I think

Poe is gone.

He's easily the most overrated player on the defense.

Looking at cap space I think the Chiefs can keep Berry at his price tag, but some things need to happen.

-This needs to be Tamba's last year.
-Jamaal needs to restructure his deal or be cut.
-Colquitt needs to restructure his deal or be cut.
-Zombo, Mauga, etc needs to be cut.
-QBOTF needs to be projected for 2018 either by the draft or Foles at a much lower cap hit than Alex.
-The Chiefs need to be frugal in FA this year.

We need to start purging the roster of the $$ that's being wasted.

Book mark the bet with a rep

I think his back problems have hindered him the last couple of seasons. I think the guy is a beast when his back is right, but I'm not certain he's been 100% for quite some time.

If he stays, it will be on the team's terms.

This is dumb. They didn't take Eric Murray to replace Eric Berry.

That deal is insane. No is the only answer.

Actually, they did. Listen to the scouts after the draft.

2017 Seahawks contracts north of 9M yr avg: Bennett, Graham, Thomas, Wagner, Baldwin, Sherman, Wilson

Total: 89 M

2017 Chiefs contracts north of 9M yr avg: Houston, Smith, Maclin, Fisher, Kelce

Total: 66 M

We can definitely do this.

Get used to the idea of Berry making $13M

Depends on the salary in the first 3-4 years.

Without knowing that, there's now way to answer. I presume you're talking about guaranteed money as signing bonus and guaranteed salary in years 1 and 2? Maybe year 3 as well?

Let's break it down in a way that I would see as palatable:

5 years and $70 with a signing bonus of $25 million and guaranteed salaries of $3 million in year one and $5 million in year 2; $10 million salary in year 3 with $5 million guaranteed. Non-guaranteed salaries of $12 and $15 million due in years 4 and 5.

So the bonus adds $5 million/season in cap hit.

2017 cap figure: $8 million
2018 cap figure: $10 million
2019 cap figure: $15 million
2020 cap figure: $17 million
2021 cap figure: $20 million

Now it seems exceptionally unlikely that you actually keep him in 2020 so you cut him with a June 1 tag that year, eat $5 million and take a $5 million cap charge for the following year.

Honestly, that's about as close to 'tolerable' as I can see a reasonable breakdown of your 70/$38 guaranteed proposal and in the end, I think I'd walk away from it. Taking $10 million in cap penalties so you can take $11 million/season in cap hits over 3 seasons on a safety is pretty onerous.

I think your total figures are about 12-15% too high. Let's say 5/60 w/ $32 million guaranteed instead.

Signing bonus of $20 million with guaranteed salaries of 3 and 5 million in years 1 and 2, partially guaranteed at $8 million in year 3. Unguaranteed salaries of $10 and $14 million in years 4 and 5.

2017: $7 million cap hit
2018: $9 million cap hit
2019: $12 million cap hit
2020: $14 million cap hit
2021: $18 million cap hit

At that point keeping him around in 2020 is actually feasible so you've actually gotten return on 4 years of that signing bonus instead of 3 and then eating 2 of them. If you keep him through 4 years, you've spent $46 million over 4 seasons (fair figure for the market) and if all hell breaks loose you've spent $36 over three; as a worst case scenario, Berry does pretty well there.

So ultimately I'd say no to your proposal but you have my counter, Mr. Berry.

There is a shit ton of money this team can clear in 2018:

Smith, Johnson, Hali and Bailey are owed 46.5M for 2018.

None of them will see a dime of that beyond dead money.

He will get around that and in a couple years , tilt won't look as bad as other players eclipse that. (It's sad these ****s continue to get more as we get raped at the gate)

Post other players' salaries that are similar.

The cap has changed a lot lately so it's hard to get a grasp on what is proper pay.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">HUNT: Eric Berry is a player that we want to come back to the Chiefs. He wants to come back. Usually, you can find a way to get that done.</p>&mdash; Soren Petro (@SorenPetro) <a href="https://twitter.com/SorenPetro/status/827551921300963330">February 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
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You probably said the same shit about Tysyn Hartmann

We have a lot of average QB salary to gut the next 2 years. They can make him fit.

Too much guaranteed money, way too much.

See. This is the kind of troll bait bullshit we are talking about.

He's got a ridiculously good point there though. I think Eric Berry is being WAY overvalued, especially by KC fans in terms of what he really brings to the table as a player. I fully expect KC to pay a bit more than Mathieu's 62.5/21.25 deal, but 70/38 is going way over and above that. And to me, Mathieu's contract is overpaying for Berry. I happen to understand the leadership part of it, and he is a good safety, but he's still a safety.

I think KC could get very good safety play for half that, and that's exactly what Ward and Stewart bring to the table.

Ron Parker is a very good safety, and he's making 25/5.75. I really think KC is making a big mistake if they pay the kind of money to Berry that the OP is talking about. I'm worried enough about the 63/28 I predicted.

Oh c'mon, those two clowns can't hold Berrys jock. They are more comparable to Parker. I will say this once more ...You PAY for ELITE talent PERIOD

Berry had a top 5 coverage grade and a top 15 run defense grade.

The only other guys like that on PFF are Kam Chancellor and Eric Weddle.

I never said they are better than Eric Berry, but they aren't that far away either. Ward gets more tackles and is a better run defender, but not as good of a pass defender. The point isn't to compare them from "how good they are" though. The point is that you can get close to the same return for half the price. I'd take T.J. Ward at 22.5/7 over a 70/38 contract any day of the week. That's a HUGE price difference for marginally better pass defense.

What are Ward and Stewart's rankings for the past 3 seasons in run and pass defense Clay, I'm curious actually.

I think this would be another mistake similar to many others made by this franchise. Yes, it has the feel of something good however does it actually do something good for the team. Lots of teams overpay and then are in trouble when it comes to signing the rest of the pieces. I would say that Smith, Maclin and Houston are three examples of players who have been rewarded with expensive contracts and have not delivered on the field.

Darian Stewart and TJ Ward aren't in the same league as Berry. It's not even close.

Past seasons are no longer available.

Pass/run, though, Ward was at 74/79 this season, though. Stewart at 81/77.

Those guys played like Parker this year (84/73).

Berry was 88/85

I'm not sure how that would affect our ability to sign better talent and consume most of our salary cap.

Seems pretty steep to me.

Hell ****ing yes!

Does it matter? Pointless discussion. He's not getting that much. Way inflated over Tyron's contract.

I'm expecting Berry to be tagged, and signed in the summer..

Keeps him off the open market, but they know he won't play under he tag this time, so they will eventually come to an agreement. Berry will accept a good deal, regardless of what he's asking for, before he sits out the entire season.

Soooo...Parker > Ward, Stewart. Nooooice!! ROFL

He should be paid comparably to what the top 2-3 safeties in the league are being paid. He should not be paid like the quarterback.

Practically speaking they can't tag him, it will actually make things worse.

Berry's agent came out last year and said that the reason they were insisting on $24 million in the first two years was because that's the value that the tag would put on Berry. The tag, and their willingness to use it, actually hurt the Chiefs in those contract discussions because Berry's agent, perhaps justifiably, took a hard-line approach to the tag and what it meant for his client.

So the moment you tag Berry again, he knows that Berry is getting at least $13 million and what do you bet that creates the baseline for his proposed AAV?

The Chiefs could end up getting a better contract if they actually let him hit the market, IMO.

Word. He was hoping for Atlanta last year but they drafted Keanu Neal. Most teams aren't hurting for a playmaker safety. I say take the risk. If things don't work out we got a 3rd round comp for next year and Eric Murray gets the go.

It was reported that the Chiefs have been talking to his agent so it sounds like they want to get something done before FA starts.

Letting Berry go would destroy the locker room. It would send a horrible message to the locker room and cause serious distractions...maybe even issues with future talks with guys like Marcus Peters.

Jamaal Charles, Dustin Colquitt, Alex Smith, Allen Bailey, Dontari Poe, Josh Mauga, Frank Zombo.

Every single one of those guys are replaceable. They aren't key to the team moving forward. Draft replacements and help the cap. And yeah Berry has some flaws, but he's the most important player on the team right now.

Think of it like this. If we can't reach an agreement by the tag deadline, we HAVE to tag him IMO. Too many teams have way too much cap space and they will overspend on a player like him in order to reach the cap floor.

So, if he is tagged, and he really isn't going to play under it, he has two choices. Sit out and make whatever amount of money you get for that, or accept whatever the Chiefs long term offer is, probably 60/5.

He will take that deal every time before he sits out the season and loses market value.

His jersey is the only authentic jersey Ive ever purchased so they damn well better!

Tagging him isn't good business. If you can't get a deal done, say your goodbyes and let him move on.

He'd play under it at $13 million, which is why his representation is pegging that as his baseline.

I don't think the Chiefs are in a position to pay him that.

The tag last year is actually going to end up being detrimental to the Chiefs it seems.

I think it would be a mistake to give him anything north of $10 million per year but I'm already resigned to the idea that they'll make him the highest paid safety in the league.

I think he will get 5 years $65 million with $25 million guaranteed. That is more than honey badger got. I don't think any safety would ask for what you are asking in your poll

I don't think there was ever a question that was going to be the case. Once his agents saw the tag as a positive development in anchoring his market value over 2 years at $24 million, the Chiefs had taken their best shot and had their bluff called.

Paying a safety $12 million/season over two years is bluffing with rags. Berry's people called and the Chiefs took the beat.

The cap is expected to push 170m...up from 155 in 2016. That's a 10% increase. The numbers I posted are 10% higher than honey badgers deal.

Tell me again how my numbers aren't realistic...and probably the exact numbers the agents are using.

You guys should get used to the fact that as the salary cap rises, so do player contracts.

The exact numbers the agent is using? ROFL ****ing please. I'll eat crow if he signs for that much.

Should I explain it in crayon for you?

A 10% cap increase does not equate to a 10% salary increase. That sounds like some bullshit logic. You have evidence to support that logic?

If they do we'll never be like the Patriots.

If you want to be like the Patriots then you'll need to find the GOAT QB and get him to agree to take a fraction of what he's worth.