|
Did the Chiefs Want Trubisky?
I know the immediate reaction will be "No, it was Mahomes all they way", but a few post draft interviews leave me wondering if Trubisky was the #1 QB on their board. First, in the MMQB 49ers draft article Shanahan was quoted as saying KC was offering a lot to the Titans to move up to #5. The 49ers couldn't fathom who KC was trading up for.
The Titans GM was on Sirius radio doing a post draft interview and he talked about how a couple of teams had reached out to them to trade up to #5, but that all the calls went dead after the Bears chose Trubisky at #2 and came off the board. So, is there a chance KC wanted to move to #5 for Mitch? |
Doubt we will ever really know.
It makes the most sense for KC to now claim Mahomes was their guy all along. They obviously still liked him enough to select him at #10, so.. guess it doesn't really matter if he was first choice. |
Thank God they didn't. A 1st, 2nd, 4th and another 1st would have been too much to give up for Trubisky.
|
I think that's BS from the Bears trying to make their pick look better.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
As far as the Titans GM goes, who knows what to think of that. They reached on Corey Davis and maybe he doesn't want to admit they turned down trade offers that were still on the table. Or maybe he's telling the truth and Reid/Dorsey are lying about Mahomes' performance relative to the other QB's in the interview process. Trubisky is an interesting prospect. Some say he's a safer pick than Mahomes, but I think his bust potential is just as bad and possibly worse than Mahomes. Trubisky seems like a nice kid who is in over his head based on interviews I've seen, the Gruden show where he tried to bullshit his way through a hard count and Gruden nailed him for it, etc. I think his ceiling is game manager. I could also see him turning into a mega bust. Obviously Mahomes has mega bust potential too given the flaws in his game, but he also has superstar potential on the high end. |
No ****ing way. It's pretty obvious Mahomes was their guy. Dorsey said he was working on mutlotple trade spots.
|
Mahomes was the best prospect in the draft (last year's too). Don't see where the hard on for Trubisky came from. Dude looks like a future JAG
|
I liked Trubisky a lot, but I'd rather have Mahomes at 10 than Trubisky at 5.
Then again, Dorsey seemed to be fine with pissing away picks on shit like trading up for Chesson, so maybe the extra draft stock didn't matter in the end. |
The Chesson move was terrible
|
Quote:
|
Pretty sure there was some sort of deal worked out with the Bills a couple of days before the draft that if Mahomes was there at 10 the trade was happening. Doubt they still wanted to move after that.
|
I wondered the same when I read that too. Alot of times were high on him. I dont get the hate the Bears got.
|
Never read anything predraft about the Chiefs even sniffing Trubisky. But there was an awful lot of reports about Mahommes being coveted.
|
I actually really like Trubisky but I doubt there was any real effort underway to trade up, and I don't think he was worth mortgaging the future for. That said, it pains me to see another year wasted with Smith ..
|
Dorsey said the other day he attended two of Mahomes games. Now who knows if he attended Trubiskys
|
Quote:
|
And no, the Chiefs didn't want Trubisky.
Mahomes was their guy since last Fall. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
To be honest that pick pissed me off, because I think Conley is an underappreciated wide out... |
Quote:
If you have two big, strong WRs on the outside, they draw a lot of safety attention because if they're matched up 1 on 1, you can just attack the corner and let the bigger WR muscle his way to the ball. Guys like Conley (and guys with Chesson's skills set) are 'point of catch' players; guys that will win in tight spaces to get most of their production. What that does is create space over the middle and underneath for quick twitch players like Hill or just straight up matchup nightmares like Kelce. If Conley takes another step in his development (he needs to; still hasn't shown the quick twitch ability or route-running skills to win early in his routes, a vital component to this offense if he ever becomes the Z receiver), you'll simply see Chesson play the X alongside him and you'll see fewer 2 TE sets because they'll convert to a more single-back, 1 TE, 1 Y look. And if Conley's never anything more than he is now, you probably don't want to give him that 2nd contract for $4-5 million/yr because he can't be a #1 and 2s are easier to find for cheap. Chesson could be that guy. It's not the pick I'd have made, but you can see the philosophy behind it. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
But Chesson is a "stronger" player. He really muscles himself into position and gets after balls. Conley's more finesse. Chesson's also a better downfield blocker. He's a "tough guy", especially after playing under Harbaugh. IMO, Chesson comes into the league more prepared and mature to fit Reid's vision of a wideout than Conley, whose development can be seen, but has been very slow. Best case scenario? Conley makes another jump and Chesson puts up similar, if not better, numbers than Conley in 2016. That puts the Chiefs in position to dump Maclin's bloated contract in 2018. The Chiefs can save $17.4 million against the 2018 cap by releasing Maclin, DJ, Hali and Jah Reid, so if Mahomes isn't up to speed and ready to start in 2018 (which I think is unlikely), keeping Alex Smith for that season won't hinder their ability to rollover cap dollars into 2019 or bring in a mid-tier free agent or two. |
Quote:
A tall high point WR with long arms and good hands makes perfect sense with Mahomes, however I think that just having this kid on the roster helps a lot. They said he's mature, smart, has experience in a pro style system and a great blocker. I'all take Chesson over DAT and Wilson all day. He's great depth over what we had. |
Quote:
I hope you're right... |
Now I'm worried Dat won't make the roster. Any chance Chesson has the ability to high five Hill going in.
|
Quote:
What has DAT done that makes you feel as if he's worthy of a roster spot? even Albert Wilson is better than DAT. If I had to guess now, before training camp etc, I'd say the WR depth chart would be: Maclin X (He needs to take a pay cut or be released in 2018, because he's turning into a overpaid unproductive pos) Conley Y Hill Z Chesson Wilson Robinson |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Glad the Chiefs did not draft Tribustky, I think he will have a short career. Fans there are already booing him and he hasn't even stepped onto the field.
|
Quote:
1. Releasing aging and under performing players in Maclin, DJ, Hali, Reid, Bailey and Harris to gain $17 million in cap space? 2. Releasing Alex Smith, which nets $13.4 million in cap space and starting what is essentially a rookie QB with no viable 2nd or 3rd string QB on the roster? No offense to you personally but there is a lot of short-sightedness on CP in regards to the QB situation. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I actually expect Smith the start the 2018 season at this point in time, with Mahomes taking over late in the season, especially if Smith falters. It should also be noted that the Chiefs save approximately $11 million towards the cap in 2018 due to the trade of their first round pick, which opens up other opportunities as well. |
Quote:
|
Restructure.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
The bottom line is that there is no rush to make a decision for September 2018 in May 2017. |
Quote:
Rolling $30 million into 2019 is better than rolling $17 million. It all matters. For this pick to really be a homerun, Mahomes has to either 1) Be a genuine superstar; a top 5 caliber QB (top 10 at worst) or 2) Mahomes has to be average to slightly above average starting in 2018 so that the financial advantage of having him can accrue immediately, especially given the fact that his 5th year option won't be nearly as advantageous as someone taking at pick 11 or later would have been. 1 is a long-shot. I love Mahomes but you can't just say "X player WILL be an All-Pro"; the odds overwhelmingly suggest he won't. He may have better odds than many would, but they're still less than 50/50. So with that thin margin for error, you'd be better served betting on option 2 - Smith needs to be replaced by 2018 or this move (using two 1st rounders) will start to look pretty bad. |
Quote:
Seems from their interviews- they DO think he is going to be a STAR. |
Quote:
But they think there's a chance that he becomes that kind of player. And a better chance than many of the guys they've looked at in the past. To their eyes, that chance was good enough to take the risk. I think NFL guys are far more 'eyes wide open' than we tend to give them credit for. Oh sure, they're confident, but every now and then you get an interview from them with complete candor and they'll let you know that sometimes their best laid plans just don't work and they know that's a possibility. Andy and Dorsey spent this capital on Mahomes because in him they see a CHANCE that he's a star. And let's look at Dorsey's history - he's HUGE on ceiling. Ford and Fisher were both extremely raw, high risk players that they gambled on. Dorsey finally ended up in a position where that kind of guy, one that fit nicely into his 'decision lens' was attainable so he got him. But yeah, he knows there's a chance that it doesn't work. |
Quote:
Quote:
Sure, Reid, Dorsey and Hunt did all the research on the guy, feel he has the potential to be a very good to great player and Mahomes has an excellent bloodline of professional sports in his lineage. But no one can absolutely state that he's a "Franchise QB", future HOFer (which is pretty much what you need to be a consistent Super Bowl winner and threat) and that he'll unequivocally be ready to lead the Chiefs franchise to 10+ wins in 2018. It's an educated guess. But the thing that really stands out to me, at least with 90% of CP members, is that they're forgetting about the journey that several of the highest drafted players currently on the Chiefs roster took before realizing their potential. It took Derrick Johnson six years before he lived up to his draft expectations and took Tamba Hali five full years before registering 10+ sacks. Eric Berry is still growing as a player! It took Jamaal Charles a few seasons until he was able to be a consistent threat. Dee Ford was considered a "bust" by most of CP (not me, of course) before breaking out in 2016 (his third season) with double digit sacks. Eric Fisher is still ascending and his best years are ahead of him (the same was with Chris Jones and Mitch Morse and LDT, etc.). The bottom line is that you're absolutely correct, especially in regards to John Dorsey, in that he drafts players as projections for their ceiling, and not finished products. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
If Mahomes isn't ready to go by the start of next season, somethings gone wrong imo, in that it's essentially signaling that he's not where they expect him to be based on the alignment of Smith's contract. If they want to keep smith in that situation, they'd need to restructure imo. From over the cap it looks like cutting smith nets them 17 mil, where are you getting the 13.4? |
Quote:
I could envision the same thing happening in KC (minus the Super Bowl, because Chiefs) if Mahomes isn't ready Week 1. Keep in mind, while Mahomes will run the scout team in 2017, he'll spend very little time, if any, with the #1 offense. Andy Reid has already said that he won't be splitting time with Smith & Mahomes with the 1's. Quote:
What if a similar situation that happened in Minnesota last year arises in 2018 and the Chiefs can turn Smith into a Day One pick? I think vitriolic hatred of Smith in this forum is blinding people to that fact that Mahomes may not be ready and that Smith isn't as worthless as the majority believes. Quote:
|
Quote:
He's not worthless at all, I'm not for sure but what they won't try and trade him and get a pick. But 17 mill is a shit ton of cap gain, especially for a team up against it and with alot of young players coming due soon. Seems like a waste to hold on to him just in the off chance something like that hapoens. |
If they're gonna go with Mahomes though, he needs to be put in the best situation he can be early, and that money would go along way in acquiring talent
|
Quote:
Sure there is - if you believe Mahomes can give you average play at the position, you cut Smith. That's it. You don't pay for a $17 million backup quarterback. The opportunity cost is far too great. And while I don't know how guaranteed salaries work, I know veterans get a kicker on the guarantees if they're on the roster as of a certain date. I think it's something like 6 weeks guaranteed if they're on the Roster on in mid-summer. I don't remember it exactly but if you don't cut Smith pre-season, you're paying a $2 million roster bonus and I'm betting a fairly substantial portion of his contract. Moreover, that's a monsterously dick move as he'd be unable to get a contract elsewhere if you cut him in July. You don't do that to a loyal veteran QB that's been nothing but a good soldier here. If Mahomes shows any indications that he's ready, you do the right thing for both sides and you move on from Smith before the start of the 2018 league year in March. If that means trade him for a nominal asset - great. If it means cut him, that's fine, too. |
Quote:
The Dwayne Bowe extension was awful. Dorsey didn't need to give Maclin $13 million a year, IMO, and that bit them in the ass last year and will likely do so again this year. He's on the downside, for sure. Joe Mays, Donnie Avery, Anthony Fasano, Vance Walker, Jeff Linkenbach, Dunta Robinson - that's just a partial list. While they've certainly done well developing waiver wire acquisitions, the record in free agency has been poor. I hold out hope that Bennie Logan returns to his 2015 form because $8 million is quite a bit for one year. |
Quote:
Unless Mahomes just keeps stepping on his dick, you can't keep Smith. I'm serious - if Mahomes shows ANYTHING, you have to move on. It hurts the roster too much elsewhere to do otherwise. |
Quote:
As for my understanding, Smith's $14.6 million dollar salary won't guaranteed until Week 1 of the season, so while they might take a gamble on his roster bonus and workout bonus ($2.5), they'd still eat his prorated $3.6, regardless of when he's cut. Peter King mentioned this morning that in 2011, QB's when 8-10-12 (Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder). Only Gabbert's still in the league and that's as a Vet Min backup with the Cards. It's a long ways into the future and no one knows what the future holds. Expecting Mahomes to be ready Week 1 to take over and lead this team to double digit wins and the playoffs is setting up very high expectations, IMO, especially when the kid hasn't taken an NFL snap. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
Even with that, the front office traded quite a bit and took a big risk to go up and get him. If he's 2 years away from being ready to play, I question whether he was worth trading up that high for. |
Quote:
In terms of the compensation, I thought it was an absolute bargain. A third and a one? That's a pittance if he becomes a perennial Pro Bowl/All Pro QB. |
Quote:
People don't understand that draft capitol is more valuable than actual cash. Some of these owners would spend 3x as much if they could. It was a brilliant move to shoot for an all pro without mortgaging the future. |
They thought Mahomes was going earlier than he did, which I believe they did comment on that. I don't think there was any interest, but it's based purely on speculation.
|
Quote:
I think Tribisky going to Chicago will increase his odds of a short career. DaBear fans have already booed him in public and are still comatose from watching Cutler all those years. If you have ever been to a game at Soldier field- the fans are obnoxious, impatient and will start calling for his benching after the first interception. |
If you saw how fired up Dorsey was in the war room then it would be obvious that Mahomes was their guy
|
I'd like to know the info Dorsey got to know he didn't need to go to 5...
|
Quote:
Made it to #5? Called the Bills. Made it to #6? Called the Bills. Made it to #10? Called the Bills and agreed on the deal. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
But Dorsey himself has said that he had a gentlemen's agreement struck with the Bills over a week before the draft and when the 10 spot made it up, they pulled the trigger per their prior conversations. it was some stealth ninja shit from Dorsey. If it don't work, it don't work, but it was a masterful job getting the guy he wanted. |
I love the Dorsey philosophy. I can't believe how utterly sad the GM position for the Chiefs has been when you contrast what Dorsey has done and continues to do with the other GM's that came before him; it's practically criminal in its neglect.
I initially liked Trubiski the best out of the class as he seemed to be the closest candidate to a traditional, pocket QB. But there's no way he is worth what KC would have had to give up to get him at #5. That's Darnold-level shit right there. If you had asked me who the least likely candidate for Chiefs QB in this draft would be, I would have said Mahomes as he is 180 degrees in his game from what one normally associates with a conservative coach like Andy. I also said that Mahomes is exactly the kind of QB Reid needs; a QB with the ability to offset Reid's weaknesses and vice-versa. It's a perfect fit, and I see no reason that Pat and Andy can not in due time deliver a championship to KC. This is easily set up to be the best era in Chiefs football since the late 60's. Did the Chiefs want Trubiski? No. |
They got the best QB in this draft....better than last year's draft too.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Dorsey got interviewed on some show, can't recall which one, and said that there were other people in the war room who were wanting him to go up to #5 to make sure they got Pat. That is how bad the people in the room wanted him.
Dorsey said that he felt 10 was for sure the spot to get him, so he waited and struck then. |
****ing. Ninja.
|
Quote:
|
It's time to unleash the beast cut Alex now I'm so excited I'm standing here beside myself
|
Quote:
The ****ing guy was picked off by a scrub today. He has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before he's an NFL starting QB Chill, peeps. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Mahomes - cross hairs in the hype machine but everybody knows it's the ceiling projection for our qbotf K-pass - huge athletic potential (ala chris jones) but limited experience and fundamentals Hunt - might be the exception of the projection pick, maybe not the ginormous ceiling with him but most do expect this pick to be solid lunch pail RB Chesson - showed big potential before injury and didn't get back to that level his last year Eligwe - another problem case bumped from D1 to small school, big time athletic profile Mcquay - well this one seems to be a decent late round flyer, but he comes into a very crowded defensive backfield with a lot of other young guys |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:12 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.