Offense
 

Yesterday, I watched three NFL football games, a rare day in which I was free enough to do so.

The games I watched were Mahomes carving up the Browns defense, Brees carving up the Rams defense, Goff carving up the Saints defense, Rodgers carving up the Patriots defense, and Brady carving up the Packers defense.

Their stats vary and to say that they could do literally anything they wanted on offense would be an understatement, but after watching football for the day, I gotta say, I miss defense.

That's not to cast aspersions on Chiefs football in 2018, which is as good as its ever been, but I've played team sports my entire life, and I've always played defense. Soccer, basketball, football, baseball/softball... I've always prided myself on defense.

I come from the franchise of Derrick Thomas, too. I love a passrusher bending the edge, and press coverage on the outside, and a punishing linebacker smack on a foolish receiver across the middle, a defensive tackle being nigh unmovable in the middle of the defensive line. I love Eric Berry tracking down Gronkowski, Dontari Poe collapsing the A gap, Derrick Johnson jumping the under routes, Tamba Hali's jiu jitsu to shed a tackle. With the endless rule changes, I'm afraid that has been taken from us.

Again: I'm not complaining about the Chiefs 2018, but rather the NFL 2018.

I don't know what to do here, folks. Are we just doomed to lose that aspect of the game at this point?

It's a pendulum and eventually it will swing back the other direction.

Until the NFL thinks that fans want defense you/we are.

It seems to ebb and flow from the run and shoot in the 80's then tough D's being dominate, to today's game. However, it will be really hard to go in the other direction with the rules, not only in the NFL, but in college and high school. Players can't be nearly as aggressive... I miss it too...

Ebb and flow, brother.

Na, I don't think so. We're just finally hitting the tipping point with two decades of rule changes that largely favor offense. The era of a truly dominant defense is dead.

I really don’t want to see receivers hit hard over the middle, as I’d prefer not to lose hill, Watkins, and kelce for a significant amount of time.

Someone will exploit something.

I was thinking about this the other day. Now that NFL seems to be fully, well at at least partially, embracing the 'air raid' college offenses and college concepts, are there an college defensive concepts that could be incorporated into NFL defenses? I don't watch college ball so I don't know.

College teams aren't really known for their defenses.

I'm not the best person to state an observation, but it seems college offenses spread it out with 5 receivers because their worst receiver is typically a better option than the defenses 4th string+ defensive back. If the QB has 2.5+ seconds to throw they will absolutely have at least 1 guy open. A great pass rush can tip the game in favor of the D since it can garner a sack or a shit throw for an INT.

For the most part, it all comes down to talent. Bama is straight up massacring everyone with their all blue-chip team (more or less). They have so much talent across the board even the next most talented teams barely have a chance in hell to compete. They aren't even fun to watch. It's like HS starters vs JV every week.

My shit prediction is we see more 4 fronts in the NFL with big ****ers on the line to stop the run; big backs are coming back to destroy the smaller coverage linebackers.

Two tweener linebackers that are solid at both pass and run will possibly become the norm, as well as a hybrid LB/S like Jabril Peppers floating around with 4 DBs.

So nickel defense with a hybrid safety instead of a NB?

where can I stream one of your softball games?

If you watched the Patriots/Green Bay game last night and thought that was 2 offenses carving up defenses, then I would say you don’t know what the hell youre looking at.

I thought that too. That was a good defensive game.

Is it not a sign of the issue that we're now used to 48 point games being a "good defensive game"?

It is the NFL narrative. In the new NFL IF:

You get a legit QB sack and strip fumble like Dee Ford- the Refs immediately take it away to keep the game close.

If the defense pushes back after the offense takes a cheapshot- (Hitchens) 15 yard penalty.

When you sack the QB- you have to hug him now like a long lost friend and hope he does not escape and the Refs blow the whistle ( Jones)

If you try to make a play and roll into the Punter (Packers game) they call that a Personal foul and set the Pats up with a first down even though the RULES state otherwise.

I feel like we are watching WWE and not a legit sport any longer. The Chiefs would be blowing teams out without the help of the Refs. Every game seems like it is scripted to keep it close- and if one team starts to dominate- the Refs will throw 3 ****ing flags on one play, start messing with the spot on the ball and call endless penalties to give the other team a chance.

Not if you watched the game. It was 17-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Qtr. There weren’t a lot of wide open receivers and both teams were stopping the run.

Double digit victories and blowout wins all over the league this week.

Halfcan: “****ing WWNFL is scripting games to keep them close!”

What a ****ing dipshit.

Right, but even 17-17 isn't really what I'd call a defensive game if you are looking at the NFL historically. Good defensive game by 2018 standards? Sure. But if that game happened in the 90s, we would be wondering what the hell happened. (And randomly throwing out a quarter to fit the narrative is an odd way to make the argument. Defense counts in the 4th quarter too.)

We've completely forgotten what a good defense looks like.

This doesn't even make sense. While I don't care to go point by point, the fact that you suggest that throwing multiple flags on one play is a good way to swing a game but keep it secret is one of the most ridiculous things that I've read.

Eat a bag of dicks!

Did you miss the Chiefs / Steelers game ****head? Should have been a blowout. Same with this week. Browns were gifted several calls that kept them in the game. You said you watched the Packers game- horrible calls against the Pack. What is your explanation for an entire season of ridiculously game changing calls?

Every time the Chiefs make a big play, especially on defense- we have to hold our breath to see if the Refs will let it stand. So it is either being scripted or the Refs are just really ****ing stupid like you.

You’re right. The Patriots first TD in the 4th qtr was set up by their defense forcing a fumble. Anyone who watched that entire game and doesn’t think that was a well played defensive game should seriously consider switching over to soccer or some equally shitty sport.

Go **** yourself soup boy. Dee Ford was lined up offsides on the play with the strip sack. The rest of the game was officiated OK.

Stop being such a pussy.

Well, it ended up that sure.

For the majority of the game it was 17 17 in the 2nd half.

I don't think that's any different than games 10 or 15 years ago.

I mean, hell, the Chiefs played a divisional playoff game what, 15 years ago where neither team punted.

If you want to see defense I recommend not watching potentially 6 HOF QBs in 3 games.

You seem so sure about this. The replays I saw, Ford got an amazing jump and was moving WHILE the center was hiking it.

No flag was thrown, no explanation. It's almost like the refs got together and decided to penalize him for being too fast.

Ridiculous, like the Pats going the entire game against us with one penalty ( that was not accepted)?

Like Clay Mathews getting multiple sacks taken away on legit hits?

How many big defensive plays have been taken away from us this year?

The NFL wants offense- period. Call it scripted, an agenda or whatever, but I guess we will have to get used to it.

It's hard to argue against this. Look at the Chiefs game yesterday, it seemed like our defense was so afraid to sack Mayfield. Every time they just wrapped him up and started pushing him back.

Welcome to NFL 2018, where defense exists in name only.

The key question now is how to take advantage of a world where the defenses are not allowed to play. In this world, the things that are important are:

1. Quarterback. Same as it's been for 40 years since the 1978 rules changes. But now it's even more important. You're going nowhere without a Patri - er, franchise quarterback.

2. Ball hawking safety. In a game where defenses aren't allowed to touch receivers or quarterbacks, I think an increasing importance should be placed on a ball hawking free safety, someone who can play the ball instead of playing the receiver. Turnovers are ultra-important now because a turnover is essentially worth two scores. You're likely preventing one on defense and scoring one on your subsequent possession.

3. I think that small quick corners may come back into vogue. Offenses are going to long, tall receivers knowing that those guys can win a fight for the ball, and if they don't win, it'll be pass interference. So you can't draft long, tall cornerbacks to battle them. The only way to win is to clearly beat them to the ball. I could be wrong on this, but it's a theory that I'll throw out.

4. Running backs who are essentially receivers, and fullbacks. I think we may move back into a mode where there is no classic halfback. They'll all be essentially fourth receivers. Then you'll add a fullback into the mix because defenses will be spread so wide to cover the outside guys.

That's in addition to all the normal stuff like pass rushers and pass protectors. I'm not saying they're the most important things, but they're things that will evolve in the no-defense era.

LMAO

Go back to bed grampa. Defense is so 90's

Not if the ratings stay up. And frankly, the NFL's liability for long-term injury stuff is lessened by reducing defense as well.

I think the days of winning with 21 points with any regularity are over. 30 is the new 20.

I pretty much count stops these days. If the Chiefs get 4 stops, they'll win. So you root for individual drives rather than sit there and hope for some shutdown effort.

Those just don't exist these days, IMO. They happen on occasions where you just go out and had that team's number on a given day (the Bengals game, for instance), but no matter what kind of defense you put on the field, You can't count on your defense just standing up and winning games for you anymore.

The Ravens and Cowboys are the teams that appear to be trying that old-school approach this year and I don't think anyone's really all that worried about them - for good reason.

You've gotta have superior athletes on D and have them play disciplined.

DJ brings up Dallas, and while their offense is ass, that defense is young and really good.

I think that's the best D in the league. The Ravens just aren't athletic enough and the Jags are in shambles.

Just to put some stats to this discussion, I pulled the average points per game (per team) from Pro Football Reference. Not that there's anything magical about the 90s, but the average number of points scored per team per game was 20.15 from 1990-1999. I then looked at the average points per game for this year's offenses.

To cut to the chase, 24 of the 32 teams would be an "above average offense" in the 90s, and the closest team to the 90s average is the Redskins (and Cowboys). So there ya go. Alex Smith would be the leader of a league-average offense in the 90s.

That's probably expected DaFace.

I do think the changes in the rules make a difference. But so does the offensive coaching. You don't see a fullback and the I formation just pounding it ahead 25 times anymore.

Why do people keep saying this? I went back and watched it on my DVR immediately and I did not see him lined up offsides. That was a bad call.

Goff yeah - but Rodgers didn't carve up much at all yesterday. I was actually thinking how much better Mahomes looked vs. the Pats.

Offense sells tickets. But I don't think it is just about that. The rules on hitting the QB were changed because the NFL doesn't want their best players injured. I'm okay with that.

Yeah, I don't think he was offsides.

It would be nice if someone could post a gif or pic of the moment the ball was snapped.

I really wonder if that wasn't a "shit, I don't wanna get fired like that dude a couple of weeks ago..." thing.

I don't think he was lined up in the neutral zone either. It wasn't offsides - he timed that snap perfectly. But there's a chance he lined up in the neutral zone. Personally, I'm gonna say that the dude standing up 6 feet away from that ball looking right at it knew better and wasn't in the neutral zone. The camera doesn't tell us because the angle is off-center.

But he got back there so quickly and a ref JUST got fired for missing a scoreboard altering call. So the referee that threw the flag just thought 'shit - I don't wanna be next and he was so quick off the line, he MUST have been offsides...'

I think it was a bad call but not a malevolent one. It was no different than an umpire that misses a curveball because it was just so damn good that the umpire got fooled by it. I think Ford's get off was perfect, the ref was certain he must've gone early and got fooled.

Probably, but the flag was on the ground pretty damn early.

I dunno why they can't make a thing like that reviewable.

Here you go, my twitter embedding skills are not good.

https://twitter.com/KSeaboldt/status...354467328?s=09

It was a huge, bad call they miraculously made up. Ford perfectly timed it and was not offsides.

He wasn't.

Sure seems borderline that he was lined up in the NZ - impossible to tell for sure from that angle.

Even if that were the case, that's an immediate flag and an easy call.

There was not a flag thrown.

Clearly not offsides and clearly not in the neutral zone.

He did move right before the snap, but that's allowed. The only way to call it a penalty is to claim that there was a Neil Smith flinch happening, but nothing Dee Ford did caused the offensive lineman to move. It was just a bad call that had a large impact.

According to the KC Star people, who were at the game, there was a flag thrown, although it wasn't immediate. It just wasn't shown on the broadcast.

Exactly, only movement Ford did was getting into launch position and timing that snap perfectly.... and his amazing, legal play was awarded with a made up penalty.

Which is becoming a big problem. They're not showing these egregious mistakes by the refs, I wonder if the NFL has asked the networks to try and cover for them?

I think I remember seeing it on the Browns sideline about 5 yards past the LOS>

I can't argue that, only what they showed on tv...which was minimal.

How often are penalties enforced without the ref explaining the call? The Chiefs seems to be the lucky ones to be a part of such marvelous officiating.

Yup - the referee got fooled by the curve...

Ford just timed that so damn well that the ref made an incorrect assumption. Pretty lousy call.

There is a flag immediately thrown by the side judge. You can see it on the replay. It lands like 10 yards in from the sideline and 5 yards on the defensive side of the ball. The announcers and camera crew all completely missed it.

Is he lined up in the NZ?

No.

I mean, I don't think so either.

I know some times the center will move the ball back a bit when they grab it, but that effectively moves the NZ back right?

It was just a few years ago that the NFL was extremely focused on exploiting the Los Angeles market that had shown only casual interest in the NFL.

How better to gain their interest than with "Circus offenses?"

Coincidentally both of those teams are doing pretty well and just might be around for the playoffs, or more.

I watched it like 3 times trying to figure out WTH they were looking at. There wasn't actually a penalty there.

I really don't think he is.

Look at how quickly he explodes off the line and look at that little 'set' motion. I'd bet even money that the referee saw the movement, saw how quickly he launched and assume that 'set' motion was forward and thus took him offsides.

It didn't. They blew that call.

That is the thing about the NFL. They hold meetings every year to discuss and implement rule changes to effect the outcome of games.

The NFL adapts, and I think eventually there will be a demand for better defense. With the change of a few rules, it could help bring back a bit of balance to the sport.

But right now, the people like offense... or else they would be off watching soccer.

From NFL Gamepass (Starting at about 51 minutes - not the original play, but when they finally go back and look at the replay):

https://i.imgur.com/oOQFJpa.jpg

You can see the flag lying just to the left of the 50 and maybe two yards in bounds - as Ford is making the strip.

Now when was it thrown?

Here's where the side judge was reaching for the flag:

https://i.imgur.com/EGeWkBo.jpg

Not quite instantaneous but pretty close.

And here's the side judge nonchalantly flinging it out it almost straight to his right. Is that standard?

https://i.imgur.com/Uzd7WH6.jpg

From the way the side judge is acting I'd say he got tricked by Ford's amazing first step and jumping on the snap count - and thought Ford jumped. He didn't seem to be completely prepared to throw the flag as soon as the ball was snapped.

I'd like to see the part from the start of the play. Wheres the actual LOS?

Where’s that ****er Hamas that defended this bs just like he always defends the refs?

This is the key right here.

Casual fans and fantasy football players (many of whom are "casual" fans as well in that they're more about their fantasy team than an NFL team) LOVE this brand of football. Defense isn't coming back in this lifetime.

I don't think it will. The NFL sees that it's boosting ratings. Like the steroid era of the mlb the league will milk every dollar out of this even if it pisses off football purists. You have the basketball execs as well calling for more and more offense. It's just inevitable. Our sports leagues are run by people who'd rather make $ than preserve the game.

I hate that the NFL is turning into this. But like reading a trashy b movie I can't take my eyes off of it.

Here's a microsecond before the snap, before Ford loads up. Assuming all good here:

https://i.imgur.com/hxTdzaT.jpg

Here's Ford loading up:

https://i.imgur.com/Q5jF7tX.jpg

This is literally as close to the actual snap as I can get:

https://i.imgur.com/inb7Psn.jpg

Here's the exact moment the ball was snapped The ball is not quite touching the yard marker - a few inches inside. Doesn't look like Ford jumped or was in the NZ:

https://i.imgur.com/waIhMsq.jpg

However like one frame later Ford's hand is across the line, which I bet is what the side judge keyed on:

https://i.imgur.com/fLL4aS9.jpg

I think Ford was so fast it literally fooled him. Bullshit. Keep the flag in your pocket unless it's obvious.

Because Mahomes...

The NFL is turning into this because they got sued and ****ed up.

She's strattling the LOS, IIRC. So he probably is lined up in the NZ

From the top view though, it's obvious he's not.

Well.. Ive enjoyed chiefs games more but I've always watched them even when they were terrible. What's changed for me is how often I enjoy other games. It has made games more exciting even if it doesn't always feel like real football. Parity has improved instead of the same 5 qbs carving up the league. Teams look less sloppy because even average qbs are capable of easily putting up 20. Young qbs are finally starting to create excitement. Much as I hate what the NFL is doing, begrudgingly I admit its made the league a lot more exciting.

I'll admit, I've been watching a ton of non-Chiefs football this season.

If she's standing on the LOS, he's in the neutral zone.

He's not though. I should have taken a screen shot. Hang on.

Look at the 2nd picture here. His head is across the line where she's standing hoveing the LOS

That was at the actual moment of the snap. His head isn't any farther forward in the 2nd screen as it was in the 1st.

Cowboys haven’t played a good offense yet.

I don't know, the Panthers are scoring like 29-30 ppg and Dallas held them to 16. Of course, that's the best offense they've faced, too. Mostly bad offenses so far.