2018 NFL midseason awards
 

Interesting take in comparing Brees and Mahomes;

"Let's work through these two together, since they stand apart for me. The most obvious difference is the touchdown total. Mahomes has 29 touchdown passes. Twenty-nine! Brees has 18. Andrew Luck has 23, and nobody else in the league tops 20. The second-year sensation Mahomes is throwing for touchdowns on 9.1 percent of his passes, the second-highest mark in the league behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only passer to hit 9 percent in a 500-attempt season is Aaron Rodgers in 2011. Tom Brady didn't do it in 2007. Dan Marino didn't do it in 1984. This is a big advantage for Mahomes.

And then, when you start working through the rest of the categories, Brees picks up advantages, some significant. The veteran has thrown one interception on 279 pass attempts. Mahomes has thrown seven in 317 tries, although his pick on Sunday was essentially a Hail Mary after poor Chiefs clock management. Mahomes is completing 66.2 percent of his passes. Brees is completing 76.3 percent of his throws. Just as Mahomes is challenging the touchdown record, Brees is threatening to take the completion percentage record and jump it from 72.1 percent by more than 4 percentage points. Completions can be overrated, but 40.9 percent of Brees' completions go for first downs, which is well above the league average of 36.3 percent.

Mahomes is averaging nearly a full yard more per pass than Brees, but a lot of that comes from his receivers' work on screens. Strip them out and Brees is completing 74.9 percent of his passes and averaging 8.7 yards per attempt. Mahomes is completing 61.9 percent of his non-screen passes while averaging ... 8.7 yards per attempt. Both marks are great. You don't need me to tell you Brees' is better.

Of course, while both teams have excellent weapons, there's a reason I ranked the Chiefs' weapons as the scariest in football before the season. Brees' top two receivers are Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara. Pretty terrifying. Mahomes gets to work with Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt. Also scary. After that, though, Mahomes' next two guys up are Travis Kelce and Sammy Watkins. Brees is working with Benjamin Watson and either Ted Ginn Jr. or rookie Tre'Quan Smith, depending on when you're judging the arsenals. Brees has Mark Ingram to help in pass protection and a better offensive line given the injuries on the interior for the Chiefs, but Mahomes has more with which to work.

I'm not exactly the QB wins type, but the Saints are 7-1 and the Chiefs are 8-1. The Saints' lone loss came in a game against the Bucs in which Brees put up 40 points and his defense allowed 48 points. The Chiefs' lone loss came in a game in which Mahomes scored 40 points and his defense allowed 43 points to the Patriots. The only thing I might mention is that Mahomes left a couple of would-be touchdowns on the table with bad throws in the first half. It would be foolish to say Mahomes played badly, but it also would be naive to pretend he couldn't have played better given the opportunities at hand.

The case for Mahomes outside of the touchdowns isn't as obvious, at least to me. He has thrown 38 more passes than Brees, the product of not yet having his bye week. Mahomes offers far more with his legs than Brees, as the Texas Tech product has 144 rushing yards and two touchdowns on 25 carries once you remove those pesky kneel-downs from his totals. Brees, ceding touches in the running game to Taysom Hill, has turned nine carries into 34 yards, although he also has two scores on sneaks, which mitigates some of the gap between the two.

At the end of the day, there just isn't much between these two. Brees has a passer rating of 120.6 and a Total QBR of 84.5. Mahomes has a passer rating of 116.7 and a Total QBR of 85.4. They're 1-2 in each category. Maybe I lean toward Brees because the sentimental, sappy side of me wants to see the 39-year-old Brees finally win league MVP before he retires. If you prefer Mahomes, I can't fault you. If Mahomes gets to 56 passing touchdowns and breaks the league record in his first full year as a starter, I'll join you on that side of the fence. For now, though, very narrowly, I lean toward Brees."

Link:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...-rookies-plays

Barnwell can eat my ass!!!!!

I don't have a problem with giving it to Brees.

Bullshit to penalize someone because of the assets at their disposal.

People act like Nathan Peterman would be leading this offense to a #1 seed too. It's absolutely ridiculous. Mahomes is making everyone around him better, just like he did in college. The only difference is some of the guys around him were already great.

So Brees is completing 13% more on non-screen throws but the average per attempt is equal. Doesn’t that mean Mahomes is going downfield more often? More yards per completion. Also harder to complete them.

I DO

Mahomes being the QB takes this offense from being really good to an all-time great unit.

Brees is going to get this award because of sentimentally, it's ****ing stupid and lame.

Another factor helping Brees besides the general dink and dunk aspect of Payton’s offense is playing indoors. 6 of 8 games so far this year have been indoors for the Saints. No wind, no rain, no sun in a receiver’s eyes for those 6 games. Mahomes’ entire career has been outdoors so far and that will continue the rest of the regular season.

If the Saints get the 1 seed and the Chiefs don't....Mahomes is ****ed even if he throws 55 TD's.

Eh... I think 55 touchdowns gets you the MVP award.

I dunno there is this huge push to give it to Brees cause people feel bad he's never won one.

The Saints won't get the 1 seed though. Their schedule is really brutal and the Rams have it easy. Saints are not even clear favorites to win their division at this point.



Chiefs are highly likely to finish with a better record than New Orleans, which will help Mahomes.

Mahomes > Brees left handed

Small sample size at only 2 games due to the crazy number of dome games for the Saints this year, but here is Drew outdoors: 64.5% completions, 2 TD, 0 INT, 215 yards per game, less than 7 yards per attempt. Not so great. One wonders what his numbers might be if he played all 8 games outdoors instead of 2.

You can manipulate all the numbers you want but Mahomes has 11 more TD passes (the only thing that counts) over Bress.

It is not even close. Mahomes is the MVP. He is breaking records every week- including many by Brees.

Honestly, I really don't give a crap if Mahomes is MVP or Reid wins Coach of the Year. Don't care in the slightest. Let's just win in January and beginning of February

Nope. Yards isn't equal. Yards per attempt is.

This.

Don’t give a shit about MVP. How about SUPER BOWL MVP!

I would be interested in Eric Berry’s opinion on this.

Brees isn't even the MVP of his own team. That offense relies on Kamara.

Day to day

Wack, but Mahomes will have plenty more opportunities. This would just be motivation to go get the SB MVP this year.

I didn’t say total yards. I said yards per completion. And none of the stats are an “equal” comparison when one guy is playing 6/8 games in domes while the other is 9/9 outdoors. Brees’ stats in the 2 outdoor games are very pedestrian including less than 7 yards per attempt.

This is where I am at. Brees can have League MVP as long as we get to hoist the Lamar Hunt and Lombardi trophies.

This.

Brees can have the MVP.

I can settle with Mahomes getting the Super Bowl MVP.

I really don't think Mahomes gives one shit or another if he wins MVP or not

Let people talk about Brees all he wants, when voters get ready to cast their vote they are going to see the touchdown numbers and if they are plus 50 zero chance they pick Brees. They are going to fear looking like an idiot.

Brees will win MVP because too many people love him so goddamn much. They'll look for reasons not to vote Mahomes like, "Yeah but look at all his weapons".

Yep, they love him so much they never gave him the award despite multiple 5000-yard seasons. The most of Any QB.

Mahomes will be breaking Lenny Dawson's record with 6 games left in the season. A record that has stood my entire life....with 6 games left.

He will also break the NFL record this week for 9 straight 300 yard games- no QB has ever done that in the history of the NFL.

31 total TD's with 7 games left to play. Amazing!

Whenever I think of Drew Brees, I think of this commercial more than anything on the football field, and this commercial is horrific. I had never heard of "hot yoga" at the time, so I thought his hot yoga line was an incredibly awkward flirting thing.

I couldn't vote for Brees for MVP solely because of this commercial. You just don't do that kind of thing.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VBV3nFT0488" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

People aren't going to vote Brees over Mahomes because they like him more. Mahomes is breaking Brees' records.

Also people like Mahomes.

That was horrid but Brees won the lottery in life even with that thing on the side of his face.

Man, **** Drew Brees. Man’s been in the league for like 17 season. If he hasn’t won an MVP by now then he just wasn’t good enough?

Has there even been a season in which the dude got snubbed? His best season I saw at a quick glance was 2011 with like 42 TDs and 12 INTs or something. Unfortunately for him, Rodgers threw 45 TDs and only 6 INTs.

I would vote for mahomes. But when I compare him to brees, it's really hard to see brees isn't just as deserving. And it's a total sham that brees doesn't have an mvp by now. Much as I'd like to say mahomes is the clear winner, it's pretty much a toss up and I'm glad as hell that mahomes is one of two runaway candidates for mvp, let alone against an obvious first ballot hall of famer.

It's not a toss-up. 18 TDs for Brees is 38% less TDs than Mahomes. That is not negligible; it's SIGNIFICANT. (Edit: I did forget Brees has missed a week but we are debating it right now, and even IF you give him let's say 3 TD in the week Mahomes misses, he's still miles behind either way.)

Mahomes is the MVP and it's not really close tbh. It's really not. Same way the DPOY race isn't close even though a few players have similar sacks to Donald, 1 even with more.

Just compare last year’s Chiefs offense with this year’s Chiefs offense. What has changed? It’s as if one player has elevated the team by a gigantic, historic margin, making said team a Super Bowl contender even though most preseason experts didn’t even have them winning their own division.

This is so awesome.

Right now its not close. Mahomes has MVP numbers good for any season anyone has ever had. Wins to match not to mention against a highly ranked schedule. So far it's him.

Ok. Not even being condescending- which season did he get snubbed for MVP?

Last week people were saying Gurly was the MVP over Mahomes.

Hunt is gaining on him- 16 total TD's to Hunt's 13 Total Td's

So the L A Lambs lose and now it is Brees over Mahomes-lol

Brees is having a fine year, but Mahomes is redefining the QB position.

2009 and 2011

2009 - you have to have an absolutely elite season to justify back to back mvps. Brees had every right to win that mvp over Peyton

2011 - Rodgers had an outstanding season, but brees had a record shattering season

There have been plenty of others. There have been plenty of other seasons where brees was very very much in the conversation. But those two are the most obvious.

Nah, **** all that. I'll argue that Aaron Rodgers' 2010 postseason continuing into his 2011 regular season was the best stretch any QB's played in NFL history. Brees' season was great but he was only even mentioned because of volume stats. He put up 5,400 yards to Rodgers' 4,600 but it took him 150 more attempts to do so. Rodgers literally averaged a full yard more per attempt. They both threw for 45 TDs but Rodgers only threw 6 INTs to Brees' 14.

Rodgers' 2011 legitimately shits on Brees'.

2009 is a better argument. Brees was statistically better than Peyton but Manning took that team to 14-0 before he sat out and they finally lost a game.

Even if you contend that Brees should have won, it's hardly a snub. That was also the year that CJ2k went over 2,000 and Brett Favre went off as well.

Also, I don't give a shit about passing yards. EASILY the most overrated statistic in football.

This is a touchdown league, and 29 is more than 18. That's a big gap.

edit:
Also Brees is ceding snaps to Hill.

Heel get back to you.

Brees would be better than giving it to Gurley over Mahomes.

Gotta hope for a couple of bad games for Brees.

That’s what will win it for him.

David Carr
https://youtu.be/YBztXSSqVTo

seriously, we are +1 Sammy Watkins when you compare this year to last year.

Mahomes is MVP right now, he completely elevated this offense to a level that only he could have elevated it to.

Watkins didn't even contribute more than 1 or 2 catches a game first five games..

It's settled in that Gurley has no chance at Tomlinson's TD record and he's no longer on an undefeated team, so his chances are pretty much shot.



Brees is getting too much love right now because he's coming off a huge win on national TV and if you don't look at the Saints future schedule it looks like they could be a the top seed in the NFC. But the Saints will drop a few games and the narrative will change.

I wasn't saying there was a snub. I'm saying he's had plenty of seasons where he had every right to be an MVP. He's lost plenty of MVPs in a virtual toss-up. There's the 2 years I mentioned. There's 2006 and 2010 losing to Brady (repeat MVP winners have incredibly high bars to climb to win. Otherwise Lebron & MJ would have far more MVPs). Arguably Tomlinson in 2006.

It's ridiculous Brees doesn't have an MVP by now. And I think years of not giving him the nod will bite us. I'm biased and would pick Mahomes, but it's really hard for anyone to make a credible argument for why Brees is any less qualified.

There's zero argument for Brees over Tomlinson in 2006. 31 TDs and 2300 yards from scrimmage on the best team in the league, it's arguably the best season a RB has ever had. Brees had a fine year, but Tomlinson's was far more impressive and historic.

In an era loaded with tons of RBs gaining around 2000 all purpose yards. Even LJ was way above 2000 that year. And we all know that RBs need to be really outstanding to beat a QB.

Meanwhile Brees turned around a 3-13 team, led them to their first playoff in a gajillion years (with an average supporting cast), and he led the league with 4400 passing yards (which is pretty much equivalent to 5000+ yards passing today).

Again, I'm not saying he was snubbed. But Brees was most definitely a viable MVP candidate in 2006.

A viable candidate in another year perhaps, but not against a historic season that still no one has come close to replicating. QBs throw for a lot of yards every year, it's just not in the same realm as what Tomlinson did, especially on a team markedly worse.


Brees has had an amazing career, he's just never had a single year where he was the best player in the league.

That's odd. I felt this commercial only enhanced Derek Carr's MVP odds yet his career has seemingly fallen off a cliff since it was released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8R17ja7nEs

Mahomes gets num 1 seed he's MVP locked.

Brees still has panthers twice, the reg season record will come into play unless Mahomes hits 50 TDs, then it's a lock.

Brady won with 30 something lol

We have seen this show before. The QB swan song. Elway had it and so did Peyton Manning. Thankfully, Eli is sucking so bad we won't have too deal with that one.

LT was definitely the frontrunner. But just so we're clear, Tomlinsons rushing/receiving records have been beaten several times. The title belongs to Chris Johnson, who does not have an mvp. His td record hasnt been matched, but Alexander beat the TD record the year before and priest the year before that. Hindsight is 20/20... Lt was an obvious choice at the time, but knowing what we know now about RBs in that era, it's more of a toss up than you think. 4400 yards with a mediocre supporting cast in that time was an elite season.

I think if either:
-Mahomes breaks one of the big counting records, yards or touchdowns, or
-the Chiefs finish 15-1, becoming the "story" of the NFL regular season

then Mahomes wins the MVP. I understand the sentimentality argument but excitement for something new can be just as big of an emotion. People are going to happily vote for Mahomes if he can give them some big reason to do it. Either of those scenarios gets him the award.

To the Franchise that boast the most cum for touchdowns


receive the..


carcosa award

Mahomes is going to win this award unless he gets injured. He plays the freaking Cardinals and Raiders twice and a normal day at the office for him is 3 TD’s. I mean goddamn guys, Mahomes might score 12 TD’s alone just against the Raiders. That’s a legit possibility.

The kid is going to put up 50 TD’s and be the biggest statistical spotlight of the league.

I don’t want him to win it based on history of the damn thing, but he’s probably going to win it.

When I saw how hard the media tried to get the world to care about brees' yardage accomplishment, I knew the fix was in. The spin cycle is already hyping up brees. Mahomes clearly deserves it. I think the league will continue to push the narrative that this is brees' last shot while mahomes has a long career ahead. It's total bullshit, but I'm preparing for it.

Brees is a dome baby. Look how extreme his splits are every year. It's ridiculous. He hasn't been snubbed, because he doesn't deserve an MVP...EVER

Zilla you severely overrate passing yards..JFC A dome baby dinking and dunking away 50 times a game isn't winning an MVP

His 2 games this year outdoors are completely pedestrian on the stat sheet. Much lower completion percentage, less than 7 yards per attempt, etc. I am curious to see how he plays in Cincy this week. Bengals defense is terrible, but it’s still an outdoors game with temps in the 40’s.

EIGHTY fewer TD s on the road and a FULL less YPA for his career. That's a bit lower than normal, but not surprising

There hasn't been one season that he deserved MVP, this one included

I'm not overrating anything. Brees is a clear cut hall of famer. The saints are a damn good team and we know brees is by far the reason for it. Brees turned the saints around in 2006 and has won a super bowl, often with mediocre supporting casts. My vote is clearly mahomes, but I don't understand the need to undermine brees to do that.

Not surprising one of the dumbest posters on this board is shitting on Drew brees career.

Did you read the article? The guy dives deep into the stats. Here is my deep dive into the stats. Mahomes has played 9/9 games outdoors and Brees has played 6/8 indoors.

Remember Butker’s missed FG against Cincy where the wind moved the ball about 15 yards the wrong way? Mahomes played great in that wind. How would Brees do? It’s a valid question to ask. Look at his numbers in the only two outdoor games he has played this year. They look like Alex Smith numbers. Pedestrian game manager stuff.

Sammy Watkins?

I did. Again, I wouldn't give it to brees. Don't have to sell me on that. Yes, the outdoors thing is a factor that no doubt won't be factored in. But that doesn't take away from brees having an outstanding season. If not for mahomes being out of this world this year, brees would be a clear favorite and it wouldn't be close.

Brees is playing great this year for sure, at least indoors. I am curious to see how that Cincy game goes for him. Chilly weather but the Bengals defense is giving up more yards per game than anyone this year.

Why is this his last shot? Has Brees announced his retirement?

For you guys fretting:

Mahomes -110
Brees +400
Gurley +400
Rodgers +1600
Brady +1600
Goff +1800

Like I said, it's NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

exactly. Where it used to be QB's ran or threw for TD's Mahomes puts the football on a sushi like small boat and it gently coasts over the goalline

The highest honor in sport!!!