Let's talk CB's
 

Kiper has us taking Greedy Williams in the 1st, who else is worth a look at CB in the early rounds?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/in...tions-rankings

Greedy, Murphy, and Baker are the only ones I’d even consider in the 1st.

Ya-Sin, Layne, Williams, Love, Mullen, Amani and maybe Bunting in the 2nd.

If Greedy fell to 29, sure. I think he may be the only guy in the class that could maybe develop into a 1/high end 2 guy the quickest.

I have a lot of doubt that he makes it to 29.

Greedy or Murphy. Don’t want Baker.

I think i'm probably out on Baker too in round 1.

I'm in the market for a #1 corner. If I absolutely had to take a corner and hope for the best, I'd take Baker. I'd rather not though.

There are some options for developing, just isn't what this team needs today.

I'd rather take a 2nd round flyer on one of those guys. Yeah, we need CB help right now but this team also has ZERO long term prospects at CB other than Ward. Get a 2nd round guy to provide competition this year with the intention of starting him next year. It isn't ideal given that this team needs a CB1 right now but this draft isn't perfect.

Fuller was the prize of the Alex Smith trade, so I'm thinking they're looking at him as a longterm prospect.

Depth can be bought in FA. This team just needs a #1 guy and needs to exhaust every single trade possibility.

This is where versatility is key because having a guy like Fuller that can bounce outside if a starter goes out is valuable and adding a guy like CGJ would be nice since he can also play the slot pretty well.

I sure see Fuller as a long-term prospect but until they actually extend him, he's still only here short-term.

With the way DB salaries are heading, I don't think free agency is going to be as great as some thing. Probably going to need to draft a couple DB's every year and hope someone pans out just to keep salaries under control.

He was the crown jewel of the trade. They'll make every reasonable attempt to keep him so unless something changes, I'd operate under the assumption he's long term regardless of his current contract situation.

Depth db deals are still fine. I don't know what you're alluding to.

Baker is who I’d take in the first if we don’t go pass rusher. Peavy in the end of the draft would be a steal. He’s a great corner who’s only big knock is his height, but his play makes up for it.

I'm alluding to the fact that salaries seem to be on the upswing and certain positions are going to be WAY cheaper to draft than sign.

With a draft like this, you know you're not going to probably get a day 1 starter, so you draft a depth guy in the hopes that he can eventually take Ward or Breeland's spot, keeping Fuller in the slot.

It's just a numbers game.

And for the record, I'm not suggesting throwing a 1st rounder at CB this year. I'm just saying when you have two 2nd rounders, you can take a developmental CB there with some upside and he'd be instant depth with a bit of a future, for A LOT cheaper than FA.

For depth? Not really. Look at the deal they just gave Breeland.

It ain't shit.

It's a 1 year deal. Look at what Steven Nelson just got instead.

You draft for immediate depth with starter UPSIDE. It's a long-term plan.

Uh, Nelson is going to be starting in Pittsburgh.

Good for them. Glad it's not here.

Well yeah, but that's not back up salary.

I like your list and add an Oruwariye in the 2nd.

In terms of immediate help, like as in 2019 starter, I think safety, possibly LB, or a DE that would rotate in the Okafor/Speaks and possibly Kpass stew make the most sense in round one. Corners you're going to need at least one to develop as Fuller/Breeland are up after the season, so I think the second round is where you'd nab one.

of course it depends on how the board falls. Either way you need to come out of the second round with a safety, a corner, and a DE I think. Depending on the rest of free agency.

Do we play Pittsburgh this year? I'd love to watch Mahomes torch that little ****er all day.

That was my whole freaking point. If guys like Nelson can get starting jobs and that much money, good CBs aren't going to be that easy to find.

Good for you, I guess? That does nothing to dispel the fact that you don't have to constantly churn picks to keep the depth chart replenished, because reserve guys are still affordable.

AND-we have our starting 3. We need rotational/developmental guys; probably to take over at least one of those top 3 spots in 2020.

So one of the top 3 picks certainly, but that guy doesn't have to be a lock-down sure-fire #1 corner on day one.

Why do we not like the Mullen kid from Clemson?

Damn, he looks really smooth. I don't think he's a legit #1 guy but he could be a really good CB.

If he were to be close to our 2nd, i'd see if I could trade up a bit.

Yep.

The whole point is that if you hit on one of those picks, you stop the churn.

If you're depending on free agency for both reserves AND starters (which is what the Chiefs are currently doing), the churn will never stop.

The churn never stops.

It doesn't have to happen every single year, though. It can be temporarily stunted by drafting guys.

Look, I get it. You hate this CB class and nothing anybody says is going to sway you. That doesn't mean taking a corner out of this class is a bad idea. You just don't like it.

I’ve said it before but he’s like the forgotten corner in this class. I don’t think he’s far behind Baker and I still have him above Layne.

I think in the modern NFL You will need to draft and develop corners constantly.

Yeah, he's just a good player. He didn't test crazy so he's gotten a bit overlooked.

I'd love to have him and Ferrill in round 1 and 2. That would be sweet.

Are you this stupid on purpose or what? I said it was a bad class for what the Chiefs need, and that's someome capable of being the #1 CB Week 1.

Taking that and twisting it into the entire class is bad and dumb is well...dumb.

ROFL

There are guys in this class that could be the #1 CB in week 1 of 2020. That's ALSO a need. The world isn't going to end in 2019.

You really are that stupid. Congrats.

Thanks for proving me right, though.

But you're not LMAO

You're talking in circles.

You said the Chiefs need a Day 1 starting CB.

You said there aren't any in this class.

Either you're being disingenuous or you're being an ass. Which is it?

They do need a day 1 guy

Who in this class is that?

They do and there aren't. This isn't a good class for that purpose, but you can talk about a class in general and not for the team you like, ya know?

Oh so you're on a Chiefs message board talking about everybody BUT the Chiefs?

LMAO jesus **** dude, go take a lap

See what I mean?

On how much of a dumbass you are? Yeah.

Telling.

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I kind of agree with Bubsy. There aren't a lot of CBs that look like day 1 starters in this draft. I think Murphy is one, but outside of him I don't see a CB that I'd say without a doubt should have a 1st round grade or be a day 1 starter. I see quite a few day 2 zone corners that could probably be #2 guys. Spags will run zone alot more than we've seen in KC of late so there's a chance they take those guys. I think Mullen is a man cover corner that could end up being a #1 but I'm not sure he is out the gate. I think he's an immediate starter though. Most of the guys that show #1 skill sets need to be coached up. I really like Isaiah Johnson, Amani Oruwariye, Sean Bunting, and Jamel Dean (if he can avoid further injuries) as guys with that size and athletic ability to be a #1 but I think they need some coaching up. Nik Needham is my sleeper guy in this draft. Outside of them I see alot of guys that are nickle or #2s. Unless Murphy somehow slips I'm probably not going CB in 1. I like a few safeties more so than the CBs in this draft if I'm going DB early, particularly Thornhill, Abram, and Gardner-Johnson.

The Breeland acquisition was big because it means that corner isn't a pressing need like it was. Now you're just looking for a guy to compete with Ward for the 3rd spot initially

My opinion is it means they don't have to try and find a day 1 starter. They still need better than competition for the 3rd/4th spot, they need at least one corner that has the traits to be developed for 2020 as a starter which means they still need a day 2 player there.

Lol if you think corner isn't still a pressing need

No shit. Veach almost completely ignored corner last year and we have very little under contract beyond this season. I hope cornerback isn't like #2 TE where the position is ignored year after year. There will just be another excuse next year to avoid taking one.

of course it is. It's a position in which we should always be drafting and developing.

But if we were to line up tomorrow and play a game, Breeland, Fuller, and Ward would be your top 3 corners. That's not a terribly dire situation.

The Safety situation is a little more sketchy, for instance.

Actually, WR is scary if Hill is gone. Watkins never plays a whole season. That leaves Demarcus Robinson as our #1 for a big chunk of the year.

I'm not saying I'm not taking a CB in the first 3 rounds, because I certainly would. There are several I like as eventual starters. probably not day one, maybe not season one, but certainly by season two.

That Defense is going to continue to be owned if Breeland is your #1 corner.

Well Fuller is basically your #1 corner and I fully expect a career year in a contract year.

And Breeland/Ward/draft pick is much better than Nelson and Scandrick.

I think they would have to move up to get one of the 2-3 top rated corners. Id rather have them stay put, maybe get one of the better safetys in the first(Rapp,Gardner-Johnson,Abraham,Thornhill), and try to get a corner in the second round, such as (Layne,Oruwariye,Williams). Look for a D lineman also in the second. With what I am reading, seems like coverage is more important to Spags than edge rushers, so I would lean in that direction. Getting Safetys that have had some corner experience, makes them all the more flexible. It should be a fun draft, cant wait!

Woof

It’s not?

How the **** is that not clearly better?

They still don't have a #1 corner. Fuller isn't a #1.

I think you’re too fixated on this “#1 corner” thing.

If you have 3 solid to good guys, you’re fine. Peterson’s and Ramsey’s don’t grow on trees.

I mean sure, if we draft a guy in the first 2 rounds you hope he can develop into a guy that could be in that next tier, but if we just got 3 solid guys for next year, we’ll be better there.

Ah, no. Bill Belichick doesn't break the checkbook out for Gilmore if he subscribed to your uh, theory.

It's a big deal that will be even bigger now that it's a 50-50 proposition if you touch a QB in a not favorable way, you're getting a PF.

Umm what? I’m not saying that you don’t go get one if you have the opportunity or that they’re not valuable.

I’m simply saying they don’t grow on trees and expecting the Chiefs to go from what we had last year to a guy like Gilmore with the FA’s and draft options that are available is very unrealistic.

If you don’t have one of those guys, you can shoot to have 3 solid to good ones and not be doomed like you’re suggesting.

Look at that Ravens D last year. They didn’t have a corner of that caliber. Perfect example that it can work.

You said I was "too fixated" on landing a #1 corner, which is stupid because of course you absolutely need a top end cover corner. If you don't have one than you need to turn over every possible stone to look for one.

You tried to twist it into some comparison to 2018 and it's not about that. It's about having a good enough secondary, which it's not. It's really that simple.

Breeland isn't, wasn't and never will be a #1 and you can't try to execute exotic shit to create pressure if MR BIGCHEST is ****ing his shit up in less than 2 seconds from the snap.

I meant that you’re too fixated on the idea of finding a Ramsey/Peterson/Gillmore caliber corner in one offseason, not to mention one with a weak selection of corners in free agency and the draft. The corner group and the defense as a whole can still get much better without adding one of those caliber corners, but you act as if it can’t.

And I like how you ignored my point about the Ravens that proves my point. Marlon Humphrey, their best corner, is pretty damn good, but he’s definitely not elite. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Fuller can get back to that level in 2019, because he certainly was in 2017 and he’s probably going to have a big contract year.

Where the hell do you think Veach is supposed to find a top end corner?

Right now? Either hope the Cardinals realize they have a long rebuild ahead after selecting Murray and agree to trade to trade PP or probably double up on the position early and hope to god one of them will be ready to step up by Week 1.

Taking two corners early in a weak CB draft?

No thanks.

You definitely take one, but there’s too much talent and needs in other areas. I have no problem taking another on day 3 though.

Absolutely. Ward is still pretty unproven, Fuller is on the last year of his deal and Breeland is on a one year deal.

If there's a good value at the end of the 3rd round, I'd really consider it.

yeah, well, so, you're not saying anything different than anyone else.

No, because I'm willing to say how #1 cornerback Breeland will go. He'll make the battle for #2 heated, which is great but I really hope we can figure out a good answer for the 1 spot.

man, nobody's saying we're set.

But as you've said yourself, it doesn't look like there's a sure-fire #1 type elite corner in this draft.

There's also not one in free agency; so much so that medicore guys like Steve Nelson got big contracts.

Everybody keeps saying, "trade for Patrick Peterson!" But The Cards aren't shopping him. Or Ramsey. So that's all pie in the sky bullshit.

I think as a rule I would draft at least one CB in the first 3 rounds every year, no matter what because the position is so expensive to man.

I just think you're beating a drum and scoffing at people who aren't really disagreeing with you so much as saying, "yeah, well, what else can we do about it but draft a guy or two?"

Byron Murphy is the only CB in this class that is capable of being a #1 corner and even he is questionable.

There aren’t any shut down caliber corners available no matter how much you scream for Veach to get one.

In a press man heavy scheme, I think Greedy would have a shot to be a true shutdown guy. But I don’t think that’s where KC is headed.

I agree. I think they'll play a LOT of zone.

Nelson got a big contract? I don't think he did as well as he was expecting.

The general theory is they're probably fine with the current group of cb's and well they aren't.

general theory from who? I don't think that's a consensus at all.

I think the overall offseason thus far has put us in a situation where we don't have to reach for any position out of desperation, but I don't think anyone's satisfied at CB, or DE, or LB, or OL, or WR, or TE.

It's also true that NO team is full of top flight talent and depth at all positions. We're not in terrible shape, but we need to upgrade talent and depth at a lot of positions. There are question marks. That is true of any team in the league, though. Acting like it's some KC specific shortcoming isn't realistic.

I'm suddenly EXTREMELY interested in Bunting in the second round. Check out what Arrowhead Pride figured out.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019/...ess-in-the-nfl


I think this guy could be a good attitude, tougher Marcus Peters in the second round. My friend who went to Central Michigan said teams avoided running and throwing his direction most of last year. Numbers are encouraging on him and stats are misleading.

I’ve been on the Bunting bandwagon for a while. He’d be a great pick in the 2nd.

I'm really interested to see where David Long will go

I'm kind of liking Julian Love and Justin Layne. both smart players with good ball awareness. Sort of the anti-Steve Nelsons.

Would love Ya sin with Ward. That's a very physical secondary right there.