Possible trade with Vikings...Trae Waynes
 

Sorry if Q:

https://www.nflchatter.com/2019/07/2...d4Kx0Jp5_BdMTE

I don't think Waynes is that good.

I'd rather have Rhodes.

That would be fine provided they don't want a 1st.

Ward played very well and has worked his tail off this offseason.

Is Waynes even all that good?

Is he markedly better than the 3 good corners we currently have? Good enough to keep Ward on the bench?

Good enough to give a big contract to? Because if we trade for him, they are extending him.

They want to move Waynes rather than Alexander, Hughes or Hill because they know all 3 of those guys are providing far more return on their contracts.

Waynes is maybe worth what he's getting paid and even that's a stretch.

I wouldn't give anything of actual value for him. Maybe a deal similar to the Ehringer deal where we dump someone we were going to cut anyway. He's a depth player no better than Breeland and certainly not better than Fuller. In the end I think Ward will prove better than him as well.

He's an insurance policy with a $9 million guaranteed contract...that seems unwise.

I don't think he's reached his potential yet, he's young, and you could argue he had a better year than Rhodes did last year.

I'd part with up to a 2nd for him...

His tools are elite I'll say that, he went 11th because he's 6' with 4.31 speed.

I think he's a good player but the thing he has over the guys here other than Fuller and Breeland is how much he's played and he's shown to be durable.

He's probably worth a 3rd round pick, if you think your coaching can unlock his potential that becomes a steal because he has more tools than any of our CB's.

If you make that deal it's about what you think he can be, he hasn't reached his potential yet.

I’ll trust the staff until they don’t deserve it.

Sure, but you also make the deal knowing you're gonna pay him 9 mil now and then have to either let him walk or sign him to a new deal.

Sounds like a Veach kind of trade.

You don't make the trade without already agreeing to a new contract...

I'm out on 1 year rentals unless A) the player is significantly better than anyone currently on the roster or B) we're in a win-now mode. I don't see him that much better than the guys slated to be our starters and, with PMII and his current and new toys, I'd hope we'd be looking at a dynasty rather than a 1 year wonder.

And you can't afford him, Jones, Hill AND Fuller.

So if you're going to give him a new deal, it's coming at the cost of Fuller. I'd rather have Fuller, personally, and he's already been here for a season and has excellent tools in his own right. I think he's a far FAR more fluid athlete than Waynes, he seems to struggle to stop/start/turn without losing speed. He just looks a little stiff.

The only way I'd make that move is if he's already agreed to a 4-year extension , that extension will beat his market value by a lot and Fuller has already turned down all extension dialogue.

Gonna be hard to rebuild that CB group next year so I understand the value in having some throughput. Waynes COULD be that guy, but I'd rather it be Fuller and he's already a Chief.

They need to get some CB cheap labor from somewhere. They're gonna run into financial issues if they can't hit on a few draft picks at CB.

The Fields guy becoming a nice option early would be beneficial.

We better be in a win now mode.

Do what it takes to make a ****ing super bowl.

Should we be lucky enough to accomplish that after 40 years we can worry about the damned long term...

Ward qualifies. They'll have him for 3 more years (final year as an RFA, IIRC) and if he can be a credible #2, that's enormous.

If Fields or Smith could step up as a legit NCB, that would also remove some pressure. But they'll be thiiiiiiiin even if their starters get to solid. That defensive backfield just really got bad in a hurry and they haven't thrown a lot of assets at it over the last few years.

Yeah, seems like it hasn't worked out in the draft for anyone they really like there but they also haven't been aggressive.

I'm guessing that's the next spot that gets some reinforcements but there were some nuggets on twitter that they didn't really think CB was the issue last year anyway.

I would send them Ragland and Sorensen - even up.

I'd rather look around at a CB that's more established or one that's currently under contract.

I kinda wonder if the Lions would be interested in selling off Darius Slay

I didn't think CB was the problem either.

Safety play and LB's having no idea how to operate in space was killing them over the middle. Nelson played solid ball and Ward played quite well when he took over. Fuller, after a rockie first few weeks, was among the league leaders in productivity in coverage.

The CBs were mediocre, but they weren't nearly as god-awful as the rest of the D. A shitty run defense putting the D in horrid down/distance situations that allowed passing games to target our weak spots in LB coverage and safety was what really killed us. When the CBs have to bail early because the Safeties aren't of any use, it's easy to get underneath them for those 5-7 yard easy pitches and catches that keep the chains moving.

I think we've upgraded S immensely but the LBs man...{shudder}. That's still a rough group. Lee finally learning to use his athleticism as a coverage LB would sure be nice.

Tremon Smith isn't even going to make the team....

It's a deal that could get done just because who knows if they plan to keep Chris Jones, and b the cap is going to rise.

He wants a huge pay increase...

I'd stay with what we got. We need draft picks and can build our defense through the draft now. Don't want to live in cap hell the next 10 years.

Cap hell doesn't really exist, and a new CBA should sky rocket the cap.

He’s probably worth it thoigh

With Waynes you don’t really inown

Everybody is forgetting about Reaser. He came close to making the team originally, has had a year of practice and coaching and game experience in the experimental league. That's the kind of training/experience that could help him become a better DB. If nothing else they will know sooner rather than later whether he's gonna make it or not.

Let's not be the 2015 Royals. We have the tools to be a long-term force.

You know he's 27 right.

I doubt we make any improvements at corner. The problem long term though is we have almost nobody under contract at the position beyond this season. There's a very real possibility of our cornerbacks being even worse next year unless we make a significant investment at the position in the draft (where we'll have to depend on a rookie from day 1) or free agency (which will be expensive).

Rhodes ain’t moving - far too much cap crunch for the Vikings to take on in any transaction involving him. The reason Waynes is preferred to move is because it costs the Vikings $0 to do so.
Waynes would be a solid depth move, but at $9 million for one year, I’m not enamoured with him. Use the money sign Jones.

I did not know his age but at 27 he's still got 5+ years of prime left if he's any good. And he's cheap at least for now.

This is arguable the worst CB situation in the league, remember that.

There's just no way Hitchens is what he was last year. I think the new system will help the LB's or atleast hopefully it does.

Lee actually being what his athleticism says he could be, would be huge. If he could be like, what, a poor mans Shazier?

Smith makes the team unless they make a move to upgrade

You are correct. The bar is set pretty low right now. And help can come from anywhere...draft, FA, survivors of the AAF, trade with the Vikings or any other team.

Cap hell absolutely exists when you're paying your QB $35-40 million/season and there's really no scenario where you move on from him.

Yes, the Chiefs have to be constantly vigilant with their cap because this is a completely new world for them.

Which says all that needs be said about Waynes when he's not a clear upgrade on the first 3 guys.

Thus far in his career he's been all hat, no cattle. And he's gonna end up more expensive than his production warrants on account of his draft status.

wasnt waynes really good at zone but played mostly in man, or vice versa? does what hes good at translate to our current scheme? and would he be willing to take an extension that is better than what his market could be? id be interested but not for a straight up one year 9 mil deal. unless we dump a contract on them where they take say 3 mil of our cap making his deal more realistically a 6m.

I know the thought is that Mahomes will get whatever, but is he really gonna break the QB ceiling by THAT much?

I'd rather flip a later rounder to the Giants for whats his face.

Eli Apple already got dumped, is there someone else they're shopping?

I mean if I'm gonna make a deal strictly on measurables and ignore performance, why wouldn't I call the Steelers on Artie Burns?

Janoris Jenkins

He's old and may not be what he once was, but i'm not really looking for more than a bandaid at this point.

The long term guy has to come from the draft.

Near as I can see, there is no 'ceiling', it's just 'whoever signed most recently'.

David Carr was the highest played player in football history for a year, FFS. All sanity is left at the door once QBs are under consideration. Just expect that one to hurt real, real bad.

the stealers are pretending they are still contenders. would they really do anything to aid and afc rival?

Oh, i'm sure it will but I dunno that it's gonna get to 40? I mean, ****, 40 per?

Atleast you could stretch it out longer ideally.

This really doesn't bother me. Our defense is built around overpaying players in year 1 and 2 in the hope of developing somebody better. It gives us a chance to cokpete while mahomes is cheap and a chance to bailout when he's not. I'd honestly rather an average player who's OK with that vs a great player who wants a long term deal or steals away a high value draft pick who can be a cheap future starter. We're at a point where we have to be really, really careful about what kind of great players get large deals and where we really want to save our high picks.

Oh holy **** no.

I'd take Fields over him for sure. I don't even like Smith and I'd prefer Smith. Whoever that completely fungible 5th round CB we got is a better idea.

Janoris Jenkins has Dunta Robinson written all over him. If he's on the team all season, he'll cut our throats at the worst possible time.

Yeah, he may be.

But he's atleast excelled in this system so that's one thing.

I wouldn't really be excited about it, but just saying i'd rather do that than Waynes.

Why do people hate Ward? That guy was much better than Steven Nelson at the end of last year. He made the winning INT that Ford ****ed up.
Ward actually has athletic traits and height, plus he gets his head around.

People also need to remember that Honey Badger will be playing a lot of snaps in the slot and he’s really good there. Teams like the Patriots and Chargers attack that middle intermediate zone, which is why we attacked that area of the field this offseason.

At this point Fuller should play his best football in a contract year and safety looks significantly better with Honey Badger/Thornhill. See what you have in Mark Fields and if we need someone else, look for another Charvarious Ward.

You guys that are bitching need to realize that we can’t have stars at every damn position.

Definitely can't have stars, but they also haven't put many resources into the spot. I think that's what worries some.

Nobody hates Ward, I'm concerned that we have 3 CB's...where 1 has very little experience after being a UDFA, and another one is somewhat injury prone in a group that isn't exactly top of the line.

What a dumb uneducated post.

They’ve put resources there, just not top end talent. I’m glad Veach didn’t give up tons of resources to trade up for Byron Murphy or Rock Ya Sin.

Bashaud Breeland was about to be given a huge contract before he got hurt. Then after some recovery time, he had 4 passes defended, 2 INT’s and a TD in only 7 games.

He’s in a contract year too. Like Fuller, he hasn’t received his first big contract yet.

I think we’ll see Fuller and Breeland playing their best football this year.

I think i'd have rather put resources into one of those CB's vs a WR though, simply because we've seen with Andy, they can develop WR's.

They haven't developed a CB worth a shit

The CB situation right now is not good. It's not bad but risky and could ruin a SB run.

Fuller is a solid player and can be great. Breeland and Ward there is a chance they could be good but they're unknown because of injury or limited play.

Ideally, you'd like to have a group of four solid CBs.

I am sure Veach is going to trade for one. Peterson would be perfect for this team but it's looking like it won't happen.

I guess Waynes would be OK. At least, you'd have 4 CBs who you think are starting caliber players.

I’m not sure I’d go that far, but it’s definitely not optimum.

Veach likes to take previous under achieving high picks that are in new coaching staffs and such and trade for them.

So lets look around at who that could be.

Would the Bucs be interested in moving Hargreaves?

No interest in Waynes. I don't want to pay his ass and i don't wanna waste a pick on a 1 year rental. He's not good enough for the pay he'll certainly demand, and will likely receive on the open market.

We'll have a new CB or two by the time week 1 rolls around, but we're likely looking at another Ward type scenario.

Yep.

If I'm gonna trade a highish pick for someone, it's gonna be a stud or someone already under contract.

I totally disagree. You need something proven, not another gamble (Ward and Breeland). The Chiefs have cap space too.

You're disagreeing with Veach, not me.

What's available that fits your need? I don't see the Chiefs trading away yet another 1st rnd pick either.

They also have two or three monster contracts coming up.

Rolling over that cap space could be huge. Just because they have it, doesn't mean spend it.

Chiefs are sending a 4th rounder for the suspended Patrick Peterson by the beginning of the season. Insurance policy!

How about we just see how our CBs fare on their own for awhile? Maybe Ward really can be a starting NFL corner. If he is, then we're only a Fuller extension away from being okay at CB for a couple years, at least until we can spend some actual draft capital on the position and re-stock our depth.

If we get bit by the injury bug, or if Breeland reverts back to mediocre trash, or if Ward is actually Marcus Cooper 2.0, let's revisit this and try to get a midseason trade worked out.

The Earl Thomas saga for all intents and purposes was basically a done deal until the Seahawks got greedy and he ended up getting hurt anyway. That does show that Veach considers these kinds of deals in the middle of the regular season, which I think should be an adequate backup plan.

At this point, they'll go into some preseason games with what they have and see how it goes.

If they make a trade it'll be if someone gets hurt or if things just look bleek.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Could six-time Pro Bowler LeSean McCoy be the odd man out in Buffalo&#39;s crowded backfield? As we head into training camp, <a href="https://twitter.com/greggrosenthal?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@greggrosenthal</a> spotlights 18 notable players who could be traded or released.<a href="https://t.co/x3Gl5DSYfg">https://t.co/x3Gl5DSYfg</a> <a href="https://t.co/6EroysgrO5">pic.twitter.com/6EroysgrO5</a></p>&mdash; Around The NFL (@AroundTheNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/1153339982532136965?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is where I am at as well. When you are practicing against Mahomes, TH,SW, TK, DRob and Hardman you can only get better IF you have potential. It's not like they are practicing against Cassel and crew:shrug: If they aren't cutting it then you look elsewhere.

I'm afraid they will want more than a 4th even IF he is suspended. BUT the question for me is how well will he play now that he is not using PEDs. When he first came into the league he was diagnosed with diabetes type II IIRC. Supposedly he was using PEDs to alleviate the fatigue factor involved with the disease.

Not sure if Veach views Waynes as that much of an upgrade over Breeland (rigth now). If that's the case he's not going to want to give up picks for him.

Here's Seth Keyser's pretty good write-up on Ward from late May:

https://theathletic.com/997762/2019/...-lot-to-prove/

Basically, the stuff he has to fix is coachable. Is he a coachable player? Hopefully. But it IS stuff that he has to fix.

If you guys wanna trade a big pick and overspend on someone, call up the Cowboys and see about Byron Jones.

They may not be able to pay everyone and he's one i'd want.

Well then that would mean Fuller is moving on

Murphy was their guy

Jones is a lot better than Fuller though.

Vernon Davis as our #2 TE to go with Kelce? Haha yes please.

I'd take a flier on Artie Burns.

Yeah, I didn't even think about Davis but i'd take him.

I'd also pick up Pryor if he got cut and let him be a TE/WR

Agree with this. I think the staff likes the young players, but we’ll see.

isnt vernon davis about 200 years old now?