Have we reached critical mass with Reiter and/or Wylie?
 

Because those guys were getting mauled. There were a half dozen plays yesterday that simply died at the snap because Reiter and Wylie were immediately pushed into the backfield.

It isn't just about losing a snap, it's about how they're losing theirs (and how quickly). The best you can hope from either of them, especially in the run game, is a draw.

Wisniewski has looked good out there. At the very least, he seems stout at the point of attack. Don't we have to give the guy a look there? As the weather turns and the playoffs arrive, we're gonna HAVE to be able to convert some of these short yardage situations without these long-developing crossers from Hill or the inside screens that teams are largely prepared for now.

I just can't handle watching those two guys get abused anymore. I can handle LDT's mediocre play because at least he's not getting beat immediately and badly. He's not blowing guys off the ball, but he's generally holding his own. But Reiter and Wylie are playing poorly enough that they're smothering some of these plays in the cradle. It's just completely unacceptable.

I really believe that Wiley wouldn't have gotten his starting job back if Rankin hadn't gone on IR. But since that happened, we're kinda stuck there. Wisneski has been practicing at center and was studying the all 22 on the sideline last night. It appears that they are about to make that move..

while I agree... good to keep in mind that the Raiders Dline is very good.

I have no idea why they keep playing Wylie. He isn't good at anything.

Wis should’ve already been playing. Now I’m worried he never will.

I’d plug him in at LG where he doesn’t have to worry about snapping the ball and can do more to help in pass protection.

Andy won't change it unless theres an injury.

Put Erving at G. Put Wisnewski at C. Make good with Allen.

Which is why I'm not asking for pancakes here. I understand that the Raiders D-line is solid ('very good' is a bridge too far, though).

I'm not looking for Reiter to go out there and drive guys 8 yards backwards. I'm simply looking for a guy who doesn't lunge at the snap, get put on skates and driven backwards into the ballcarrier as he's taking the hand off.

It's the ol' Rex Grossman thing. And Eli Manning actually said it best, IIRC: "When I'm bad, I can't be THAT bad". The killer with mediocre options isn't that they don't have truly stellar plays - it's that they DESTROY plays on their own at times.

You give me a 'meh' player who simply plays 'meh' every snap and I'll live with that. But you take a guy like Reiter who's never going to have standout snaps and who also mixes in a fair number of snaps where he's less effective than a blocking sled - well that just can't stand.

You can have snaps where you aren't great - but don't have that many snaps where you're the cause of a complete collapse. Especially if you can't somewhat offset it by blowing open holes on occasion. If we can't trust you to clearly win a bunch of snaps, we can't have you clearly losing them either.

Allegretti can't be worse than Wylie.

I don’t feel panic about it bc Rankin was arguably the best LG in the Andy Reid era and he’ll be back next year, but man C is a big problem.

I like Reiter and Wylie, but not as starters. If they are back next year as depth, then that’s fine by me, but holy shit are they not long term options.

It is embarrassing that we could not get about a first down on short yardage. Two shots to get less than a yard should be a win for any team at this level.

Actually it wasn’t even a yard. It was half a yard and we couldn’t get that in 2 tries.

That is infuriating

They need some big maulers inside. LDT and Wylie aren't that. LDT needs to go do his DR thing I guess.

I'm also not sure why we insist on this type of run blocking. Just zone block everything and be done iwht it.

I would not mind drafting a top center with our 1st round pick.

Whatever it takes. But they’ve got to get better linemen in there to protect the franchise.

Put Wiz at Center with Wylie at LG.

My thought too. Not good at snapping the ball. Maybe something that's been fixed with experience and reps. I hope.

Is there even a center out there with a first round grade this year? Let's not reach for need. That's an ElFraud move that leaves you drafting a Garrett Bolles. No thanks.

Agreed.

That seems like overkill considering the position

It's early but this guy has been talked about in the 1st round where we pick.

Tyler Biadasz C Wisconsin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u97rk3UbBA

I think you're right.

The Mike McGlynn experience has shown that Andy prefers god-awful to untested. He simply refuses to tinker with an OL short of injury.

And that's damn unfortunate.

And Oakland didn't even have to do anything spectacular to beat us. The ball was snapped and there guys just didn't get moved. At all.

Our stop on 4th down required that Gruden be a complete moron and take his best player off the field so he could run a jet sweep with a mediocre WR. But our short yardage failures were just being physically whuped.

Slow weak white guys on the OL don't stand a chance.

Wisniewski is on a 1 year deal, so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in keeping him around for a 10th season. Rankin was a 3rd rounder, so he may be toward the end of his contract. We have a C in waiting, Allegretti, so why draft another with a 1st? What we need to do is draft/sign Gs are Gs, Cs that are Cs, and OTs that are OTs. While I understand that you need guys that can play multiple positions, you need your starting 5 interior guys to play where they're supposed to.

We have that OT that we signed from the Colts practice squad. I wonder where he’s been working in practice.

We need a mauler in the middle somewhere. I really would have liked to have kept Hudson or Morse, but financially, you just gotta do what you gotta do I guess.

They need to really put some early round resources into it.

At times Wylie looked like that guy last year. He had a nasty streak that made me think he could develop into a credible run blocker who may show some struggles in pass pro.

And that just hasn't happened. He hasn't looked to be able to get his top/bottom halves to work together well all year. He looks like a baby deer out there way too often. He's getting beat because he's simply out of sorts - off balance or too high or whatever. And he's getting thrown out of the way.

His technique looks to have just fallen to shit on him.

He was at RG last year IIRC. Now he's at LG. I'd imagine it's a bit different.

I'm just tired of the interior OL always seemingly being an issue. Maybe it's just in my head, but IMO, it's high time to start investing up there. A first round G isn't bad.

OL is pure shit.

Yep. Romo first joked around saying that he was looking at the internet on the sideline tablet. Then said that studying is what you want your backups to be doing.

I agree that Andy told him to be prepared to jump in. Not sure where, but I think that studying would mean calling line plays at center.

If anything, hopefully it is a wake up call to the front office that they probably need to address the interior of the OL in the offseason. No qualms with LDT, but Wylie and Reiter have been undesirable to say the least.

I've seen a few say that Wisnewski (i know that isn't how its spelled,.... i think) should be playing and I'm wondering why he isn't playing because when he played, it seemed like an improvement over who he replaced.

Regardless of what happens the rest of the way, our OL absolutely needs to be addressed via draft/FA... probably draft over FA i'd imagine

I'll hang up and listen off the air

Agreed. Rankin was an improvement. At this point, I don't know how much more dumpster diving we can do.

I don't think changing 3 of 5 OL with 4 games left in the season would be smart. Especially since one of them isn't even on the roster.

Wiz should be starting at RG though.

I don't think changing 3 of 5 OL with 4 games left in the season would be smart. Especially since one of them isn't even on the roster.

Wiz should be starting at LG though.

Allen really wouldn't be an improvement, either. At this point, the improvement just about has to come from within. Rankin looked really solid. I'd hope that Allegretti could do something similar down the road.

On a somewhat related note, anyone have access to PFF player grades? I'd love to know how NFL centers compare this season.

I really believed we were approaching a point where rankin started at LG and wis would end up at c, now were patchworking.

No no no. Stud Linebacker who can do it all please.

Hmm, maybe taking an OL or 2 early in the draft would have been better than taking some loser fat **** like Breeland Speaks.

It's been a weakness during Reid's entire tenure and he refused to change the scheme either due to stubbornness or ignorance. Andy Heck needs to be gone yesterday.

Imagine Mahomes behind a power blocking behemoth of a line. The light in the pants OL they prefer should theoretically be better in pass pro, but that's not even the case. Mahomes is athletic and can avoid the rush. Change the scheme to a power blocking scheme with some stout mother ****ers. Get a run game that can turn Mahomes into an assassin from play action passes. But it'll never happen with Reid. We'll sign some middling free agent or two and draft a fatty or two in the 5-6 round range. Rinse and repeat.

Doesn't even need to be a 1st. Just take a guy in the 2-3 range. They just can't keep waiting until the end of the draft to address the position like they have.

Our best OL is probably

LT Fisher
LG Erving
C Wisnewski
RG Wylie
RT Schwartz

LDT does just fine at RG when he only has to pick up his guy. It's far too often he has to contend with Reiter's guy.
I've watched a bit more of college ball this year and a couple guards have impressed me, Bredson from Michigan and Kindley from Georgia. But we do have to think about bringing a quality tackle on board. Mitch and Fish aren't getting any younger.
Once we have the AFCW locked up, I'd like to see what we have in some of our backups (PMII out of the game, of course). It's time to fish or cut bait with some of our OL.

That's actually a damn interesting point.

LDT was hurt for most of the time he'd have played alongside Morse last year, right? And he was actually looking very good in the first few games before his injury (when Morse was alongside him, IIRC).

Maybe that's a big part of it. I hadn't considered it, but it's possible that Reiter is having a negative impact on LDT.

I really think we need to get Wisniewski in there as quickly as possible. We have to know if he can provide an upgrade. If he can't, there's little harm done in trying. It's not like he's going to expose Mahomes any more than Reiter already has.

I'm curious why Veach thought he could let Morse walk without finding an adequate replacement. That makes absolutely no sense, unless they were seriously counting on Allegretti.

Reiter played quite a bit last year, I'm guessing they were comfortable with that.

I don't have a huge problem letting Morse walk. The concussion issue and the amount of money he got, it was the right choice.

The issue was not replacing him with something better than Reiter. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Reiter looked promising last year imo. At the time, most of us were fine with Reiter taking over.

This is what I would do.

Erving was solid last year at LG

Andy went a whole season with McGlynn at LG. He's not making an inseason change unless there's an injury.

Too bad Rankins went down.

If Veach was, it seems Andy wasn't told.

That said, the C position was awfully tough in the draft this year, especially after McCoy and Jenkins went early in the 2nd. I wonder if the Chiefs take one of them if they fell to our spot in the 2nd (probably not).

And they were in on some second tier FA centers.

I would've liked to have taken a shot at Michael Jordan, who's occasionally starting at G for the Bengals now. I thought he had real potential as a long-term C. That said, he's been pretty much ass this year as well. I'm not sure he's actually any better than Allegretti would be. And the Chiefs didn't have any picks in the 4th or 5th round so he was never really in play unless we wanted to use a 3 on him (and Saunders just had too much ceiling to pass on there).

I can kinda understand how this happened, but I don't understand how they're unwilling to give Wiz or Allegretti a longer look. I just don't get the divestiture aversion w/ Reiter right now. He's a real problem.

He really didn't, though. He was never athletic or strong enough to even be average at the position. Perhaps he wasn't getting dominated as often last season, but I imagine that's a defensive scheme issue that has been figured out by the opposition.

Yeah, that was an argument I kept having when I was arguing to look at Garrett Bradbury in the 1st. The point was moot - he went too high - and he's struggled this year as well, but the argument was "We're fine at C" and I just didn't understand that.

I didn't think Reiter looked promising at all last season. I thought Wylie did and was hopeful that they could do a C conversion with him somehow. But Reiter looked weak and indecisive. I felt like getting Morse back was a big part of the reason Damien Williams looked passable after we cut Hunt. Morse's return coincided w/ Hunt's release and it wasn't an accident, IMO, that Damien looked like a solid RB when Morse was in the middle.

Reiter's a backup quality player and a guy we should've been looking to turf.

With the expensive players we've got here though, some times some guys like that are gonna have to play and be passable. He's just not.

Agreed.

Like you said - I have no issues with the decision to let Morse go. That was a harsh reality of a cap league; you lose guys like that to the cap and you hope that you gain guys like Mitchell Schwartz because OTHER teams lose them to the cap. It's the way the league works.

You just have to have credible replacements for them. When it was Hudson we lost, we got Morse. When it was Morse we lost, we spun the wheel on a guy who gave little indication that he was a real long-term option.

My frustration is with the blind spot Reid appears to have for him. Why does Andy think he's good? Why is he so inflexible here? And the answer is mostly that this is just who he's always been.

Andy doesn't **** with his OL. Usually you know who he's going to have starting games in week 17 (health permitting) based on who he has starting them in week 2 of the pre-season. It's frustrating but it's clearly his philosophy - continuity trumps all.

In general, with the OL I think it's the way to go. When you have talented good players there that is, sometimes they just need time.

As a general rule, I agree. An good OL is always greater than the sum of its parts. Continuity is commendable.

But not when it's Mike McGlynn. And Reiter is approaching that level of suck, IMO. He's really creating problems out there.

Y'know what, let me back that up just a little bit.

Reiter doesn't truly suck in pass pro. He's not great (Morse was) but he's adequate. He's essentially poverty Morse. Morse was an elite pass protection C and an adequate run blocker. Reiter is an adequate pass protection C and an ABYSMAL run blocker.

So maybe Andy's simply making the calculation that ANY step back in pass protection for Mahomes is unacceptable. If you drop from adequate to below average in PP but step up from hideous to average in RP, that's not a trade Andy's willing to make.

It's the most 'reasonable' argument I can come up with. It's the best I can do if I'm trying to make the argument without resorting to "Andy's just being a stubborn ass...."

And it's not completely ridiculous, I guess.

I was never a fan of those guys Wylie especially sucks

But wouldn’t Wiz be a better option at both? It looks like it to me.

IIRC, Wiz had snap issues in Philly.

Based on my very limited impressions of him? Yes. Slight upgrade at PP (from adequate to...I dunno, slightly more than adequate) and a significant improvement at RB.

But that's where Andy's continuity theory comes into play. Maybe Andy agrees with me that Wiz, in a vacuum, would be a better pass-protector at C than Reiter but that the Gs aren't as familiar with him and thus overall PP would decline.

Best guess I can come up with. Otherwise I just can't see a reason for not giving someone else a shot at C (unless O.City is right and Wiz can't snap a ball; but Morse couldn't snap it at Mizzou and did just fine in KC so guys can be taught...).

Your mother reaches critical mass every time she goes to Golden Corral.

Not that he would have been a solution necessarily, but I wonder what Kahlil McKenzie is up to on Seattle's practice squad. Has he taken another step with that team, or is he just kind of the same undeveloped inexperienced player he was for us?

I was just wondering about him.

It sure seems strange to me that we kept that dude on the active roster for 17 weeks last year when we had some serious roster crunches here and there (Thanks again, Hobo Spirit), but then cut his ass out of camp.

LMAO

I never realized he was gone.

Same lol.

You’re damn skippy we’ve reached the point of no return

Can’t do much about it this season unfortunately, but yeah it just simply cannot go on like this... late round castoffs/projects simply will NOT do anymore

These interior trash cans gotta GO

SIGNIFICANT draft and free agent resources need to be spent this offseason, it’s been our Achilles heel for far too long

As a general rule, I dislike throwing individual players under the bus.

However, these two players haven't performed well at all this year so far. And I can't say which one has been the bigger disappointment.

But with these two Mahomes doesn't have the luxury of consistent protection in the passing game, and we can't run barely at all to the left side/left center, making our run game significantly less effective.

I'm no OL expert, so this is a complete WAG, but I'd like to see Wiz and Erving in at center and LG for the foreseeable future this season. They couldn't do any worse, that's for sure.

Like I said a couple of days ago what would Pat do with a Ravens type offensive line?:thumb:

We could have kept Hudson or Morse but chose not to. Why would we change philosophy now?

I read Wiz doesn’t like playing center anymore. He was cut shortly after signing a 4 year. He was beat out at C.
Prior to and I think Super Bowl he was playing LG. But the high draft pick he beat got better and took back his spot so Wiz had to play C if he was to stick.

I’m fine with it but you guys need to look at a team with a great OL and see how it was built.

It’s gonna take some first and second round picks

Amazing play by Pat but watch these 2, specifically Wylie.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/PatrickMahomes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PatrickMahomes</a> on the mark!<br><br>48-yard TD pass to the rookie <a href="https://twitter.com/MecoleHardman4?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MecoleHardman4</a>! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a><br><br>��: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KCvsNE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KCvsNE</a> on CBS<br>��: NFL app // Yahoo Sports app<br>Watch free on mobile: <a href="https://t.co/D5AfU98qAh">https://t.co/D5AfU98qAh</a> <a href="https://t.co/V9WyStI4mJ">pic.twitter.com/V9WyStI4mJ</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1203800113908371456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wylie got injured and Wiz took over. Keep Wiz in Andy

Should put wiz at center and erving at LG. Can't be worse than the Reiter wylie disaster combo.

Wisniewski was at LG for some snaps today. I missed the opening drive and some of the game thanks to Dish. Does anyone know how many snaps he played?

Sooooo, Reuter still got pushed into the backfield a bunch, but Wisniewski looked pretty damn good.

He was a key block on Damien's 84 yarder I believe.

Wiz apparently is much stronger than Wylie, or maybe it's just that he's a much better technician as far as blocking mechanics goes. Maybe both. The one knock on Wiz is his lateral mobility, but he apparently is good enough to hide that problem most of the time. I'd be very happy if Wiz started at guard for the foreseeable future.

Rewatching the game again; is it possible that Reuter isn’t terrible? He looked really solid against the Texans. Is Wiz over Wylie making that much of a difference? Is Houston simply that bad up front?

I’ve never hated Reiter. He’s actually a good OL but CP hates him cuz he made a few bad plays

Oline looks much better with Wisniewski in there.

Wylie stinks, gets constantly pushed back


I haven't seen anything that great about Reiter either. I would like to see better players at both LG and Center next year.