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Narratives That Need to Die
2021:
Spoiler!
New for 2023-24! Fallacy: Big underdogs willing themselves to victory in the playoffs. Possible Narrative: The underdog has nothing to lose! They'll B-E aggressive! The Truth: Mahomes has only ever lost to Brady and Burrow in the playoffs, and two of those games went to OT. Stop worrying about every brokedick quarterback, every run-first team, every "tHeY'rE cOnFiDeNt AnD nOt InTimIdAtEd!!" team. Examples: Being fearful of the Browns, Jags, the Titans FFS. Fallacy: Paying a franchise QB handcuffs your team towards mediocrity (or at least fewer Super Bowls) Possible Narrative: Rebuild year, reload year, the imminent demise of the Kansas City Chiefs, and the general "complete team vs quarterback". The Truth: The quarterback position is pretty important. It's so important, in fact, you can get away with having an average or below average defense, a mediocre run game, unproven receivers, and so on... even to the extent that a one-legged franchise QB is better than most NFL teams. Obviously, the rest of the team can't suck ass and there's always a fine line between winning and losing in the biggest games of the year, where those other pieces matter the most, but you wouldn't be in that position if it weren't for paying the man. Possible Narrative: The Chiefs need to retain non-Mahomes guy or sign the best player at their position in free agency. The Truth: A franchise QB makes up for lesser talent elsewhere on the roster, and having the top QB in the league is a much larger gap than "only" having a top 15 guy at another position. Examples: Tyreek, Hopkins, needing the best LT ever, etc. Fallacy: The NFL is out to **** the Chiefs. Possible Narrative: Every loss is rigged for whatever reason is made up after they lose. Basically everything that happens is the NFL's way of figuring out how to **** the Chiefs. The Truth: Can we please just let this one ****ing go? LMAO The Chiefs won the AFCCG and SB on defensive penalties at the end of the game and still didn't have to play a road (or neutral site!) game. I think we're good. Examples: Every single loss. Hamlin is the drama the NFL needs to push the Bills to the SB... oh, and the NFL wants to experiment with neutral sites forever after they force the Chiefs to play in Atlanta. Ratings. Fly over country. Vegas. New stadiums. Fallacy: Regular season momentum exists. Possible Narrative: Teams can't flip a switch. (this is from the 2021 version, but should be reiterated) The Truth: A team with playoff experience and success can certainly play vanilla in the regular season and do things to avoid injury, etc; and then dig deep into the playbook while recklessly throwing themselves into defenders when the games really matter. Examples: The Defending Super Bowl Champion Kansas City Chiefs |
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Good stuff. You should direct every troll to this thread.
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The only problem I have with SoS is that by definition teams that the Chiefs play and beat have a worse record (lower SoS and SoV). So a team that sucks but also plays in a tough division will really have a high SoS while the team that wins a division with no other good teams (AFCW) the winner has a lower SoS (and probably SoV as well).
Of course the biggest issue that the NFL season is too short to get truly meaning full data about these things. |
Forgot TOP.
And 'sacks have anything to do with winning.' |
I went completely "dark" this year as far as listening to sports pundits, talking heads, dweebs like Skip B, SAS and the like. Frankly they are all full of shit. It's like turning off the news, I'm happier. I don't even pay attention to any of the homers.
The proof is in the pudding. I don't need smoke blown up my ass, or someone else to tell me what they think about my favorite football team, the Kansas City Chiefs. If a person brags that they are hitting the gym all the time, and you see them for the first time in a year and they are still fat, you know they are talking smack. Then you have the person that actually DOES work their ass off, said nothing about it, and you see them for the first time in awhile and they look like a Brick Shit House. The Chiefs are that BRICK SHIT HOUSE. Nothing more needs to be said, RESULTS DON'T LIE. |
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It'll be like a reddit bot: I see you're posting a false narrative... :D |
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<blockquote class="reddit-card" data-card-created="1611716777"><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/KansasCityChiefs/comments/l5ea96/oc_mornings_in_chiefs_kingdom/">[OC] Mornings in Chiefs Kingdom</a> from <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/KansasCityChiefs">r/KansasCityChiefs</a></blockquote> <script async src="//embed.redditmedia.com/widgets/platform.js" charset="UTF-8"></script> |
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Fallacy: Chiefs fans are now arrogant assholes
The Truth: Only some of us! :) We've just grown tired of hearing these same old pointless narratives over and over and over. It's not that the Chiefs are invincible, it's just that these tired, idiotic narratives won't help your case or your team's chances. Great job with the whole thing. These fallacies are one of the many reasons that I don't get involved in debate online about just about everything. Too frustrating. But I want to highlight this one specifically. I am becoming arrogant. We all should be. It is conditioning. Those of us who have truly been Chiefs fans our whole lives, who have suffered the misery (and when I say misery of course the lifers don't need it explained) were conditioned to believe that something bad would always happen. Because in most of our experiences (I am 43) it always did. Now we are being conditioned that something good will happen. Because it is. So where an opposing fan might call us arrogant, is it really arrogance, or is it that we are realists who are seeing that the probabilities now line up in our favor? It's confidence. Thanksgiving at my girlfriend's family we go around the table and say what we are thankful for. Everyone says something sincere and heartfelt and then maybe something jokey. This year I was thankful for Patrick Mahomes and for the fact that I am becoming what Patriots fans were. I should mention, her family is split between Bills and Steelers fans. There were a lot of eyes rolling and noises of disgust. I'm happy to be an arrogant Chiefs fan. It means my team is envied. |
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I do love Simms because he talks about the "X's and O's and Jimmy's and Joe's." I avoid Cowherd, Bayless, Smith et al because they have nothing insightful to say other than their opinion which isn't any better than my own. At least guys like Simms understands more about the game than I do and can explain to me what he is seeing. |
Mark Sanchez went to two AFC title games
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"Chiefs can't stop the run."
"The Chiefs defense is trash." Actually that might just be the three or four reeruns that regularly show up on the GDTs and have to vomit that nonsense during the first drive. |
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Here is that show, First Things First.
Nick makes a great case. It's just a matter of having to suffer through Eric Mangini. https://youtu.be/F-kggF9B-F8 His thing starts about 3:30 |
Do you have the condensed version with pictures? :hmmm:
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Similar to the media calling the Rams "the greatest show on turf" 4 years after it was true, it is ****ing annoying when things like that stick around so long. |
The CHIEFS are re-writing the books...
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It's the past 3 months of opposing fan arguments in one thread. As someone who posts gifs like 70% of the time, I did fail when it comes to not providing pictures. The reddit video that I posted earlier sums it up in a way though. |
Great posts
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Hugs, BC. Nicely done.
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1. This is a great post. Good use of facts rather than just mindlessly repeating the same old cliches like some kind of damn puppet.
2. There’s a Narrative to which I have subscribed that will be tested this weekend: how important is the O line? Granted, it can’t be garbage but I have argued here (and elsewhere) that with a QB like Mahomes, KC should invest the money in enough of the O line to be among the best O lines in the league. I think Remmers is pretty good but he’s not as good as Fisher or Schwartz. Our O line has been ravaged by injuries this year and yet they’ve done well enough to protect Mahomes and allow our offense to function. They’ve done well enough that while I would like to see improvement, I at least question the Narrative. this upcoming Super Bowl will certainly test the Narrative. I’ve admitted when I’ve been wrong before. I’ll do it again. If our patchwork O-line can provide enough protection to allow our offense to function well, it will be persuasive evidence against my argument. And if our O-line falters, that Narrative might survive to another day. Hell, what am I talking about? Of course the Narrative will survive. Some people believe what they want to believe irrespective of all evidence. But if our O line does a respectable job, I will at least re-consider my embrace of that Narrative. (But we should still get an upgrade at center this off season, whether by trade free-agency or draft.) Anyway, great post. Thanks for putting thought into this and posting something intelligent. |
Narrative:
Buffalo won the Mahomes trade. Nope. |
Absolutely excellent post. Some of your best work ever and that's saying something.
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Now fans of other teams get to engage in false bravados/excuses for choking against superiority.
The End. |
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Possible Narrative: Mahomes is a product of his insane weapons. Pat simply throws to wide-open Kelce or Hill on every play.
The Truth: This is horseshit. Mahomes is most likely THE best ever. Example: The Chiefs pre-Mahomes as a starter? Maybe a playoff win. The Chiefs post-Mahomes as a starter? AFC Championship game at a minimum. More likely, the Chiefs are Super Bowl Champs/Favorites. |
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I think a lot of those hold more true of lesser teams. Like the resting players, those teams punching above their weight seem to struggle in the playoffs when they rest players the last week.
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I hate the whole "Since week x Team/player x has been _____(add superlative of choice) "
Seems rife in today's lazy journalism. |
Rest starters is bad imo is officially an excuse. Chiefs had 3 weeks off
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For Mahomes though, I think there would be diminishing returns at some point.... if he can make it to the SB with this many injuries/opt-outs/etc. to this line and win it all with last year's line........ what does say the 15th best line in the league get him? 10th best? 5th best? The best? Eventually, it just wouldn't matter, as I don't see his production increasing at the same rate as the line gets better and better... it's not like he'll be throwing for 600 yards/game, because the chance of completing a longer pass or whatever will never be all that close to 100%. The other part of that, of course, is protecting him. |
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I'm thinking the truth to that is.... sure, the level of dominance is a product of having insane weapons, and he'd have less margin for error without them. |
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Good stuff.
Along with this narrative I would add that not all points scored are created equal. Garbage time points when a team is down 3 scores doesn't really mean anything yet they effect point differential and can skew perceptions. Points given up when a team is behind, tied, or leading by 8 or less points is a bigger indicator of how effective your defense is. For example KC's knack for giving up very few 2nd and 3rd quarter points is very large in their ability to consistently win. They have also been good in tight games in the 4th quarter when needed. Obviously the 1st Raiders game is the only exception and one outlier is not a pattern. Quote:
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What I find funny is the TOP stuff. At some point late last year Reid figured out that he needed to help the defense a bit and actually started using more time on drives with more run plays, short passes, etc, to give them rest. Made the entire team better.
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Only one I'd push back on is the "switch flipping".
The Chiefs are about the only damn football team I've seen be able to do it like they do. |
I agree with Marcellus. Not all points given up are equal. Would love to see a points allowed stat where points given up by a defense don't count against them when up by 2 scores in the 4th qtr or 3 scores during the game.
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It’s a one game sample size (although it was the AFC Championship Game), but the narrative that the Chiefs offense takes a step back without Sammy Watkins was maybe put to rest on Sunday.
That’s as good as the Chiefs offense has looked all season. |
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The only other example off the top of my head is the Patriots... they would generally keep their foot on the gas all season, but did win a Super Bowl or two after struggling in December. 99% of teams just can't rely on a last minute TD drive to beat the Falcons or the Raiders, etc.... the level of consistency and seemingly being able to do whatever the hell they want on offense when they're backed into a corner is truly remarkable. |
In Werner Herzog's Grizzly man, Werner explained that behind the eyes of a bear Timothy Treadwell saw human qualities like empathy, love, and compassion. Tim was the protagonist who was eventually eaten by a bear. Werner went on to say in stark contrast to Tim's perspective that he only saw the cold indifference of nature in the bear's eyes.
That is the Kansas City Chiefs right now; Absolute bone chilling indifference to what any other team presents or any person has to say. If the Chiefs are hungry they are going to eat. Its as sure as the sunrise and it does not care what you think of it. Arrogance is no longer arrogance when it is true. |
I had my first Red Robin hamburger last week. Yea, it's a hamburger.
I did get some packets of their seasoning and now put that shit on everything. Especially grilled chickens. |
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(I do need to try Red Robin though) |
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Endless supply of French fries. |
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Now that's one tasty burger!
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Robin's blue cheeseburger is to die for.
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OP updated, too. |
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Red Robin has some good stuff. |
The Bottomless Steak Fries are money at RR (is that still a thing?).
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RR has a good jingle but I’ve never dined there
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I'd rather go to The Habit, Smashburger, etc; one of the few times I go out for a burger. RR was good, but not earth shattering by any means. |
to the OP, 2023 version:
The Chiefs simply must sign (insert big name player here) or they're in real trouble. Brett Veach is a roster building superman and has got this. |
Red Robin is basically Applebee’s for burgers. Overpriced for what you’re getting but not too bad every now and then.
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I can’t believe I’m saying this considering how much I wanted to draft a franchise qb
I do think there’s something to a team that’s willing to churn and burn QBs. If you’re Patrick mahomes and maybe burrow, you can get away with soaking up tons of payroll. If you’re trying to win it all with big money to Daniel jones? Good luck. For Lamar? I don’t think he’s good enough and certainly not a long term threat. The biggest threat to the chiefs the past few years were buffalo and cincy, two teams who excelled on a rookie qb contract. Two of their toughest outs were Tennessee and San Fran. The problem is many of these teams become too content once they find a qb who can manage games. But a team that takes this approach but drafts a qb every year is still kind of an interesting idea. If you don’t have Patrick mahomes it’s going to be really hard to build a team around a high dollar qb. |
I often wonder how Seattle would’ve fared if they got rid of Russell way sooner. They always believed in constant qb experimentation. And they arguably kept him around due to public pressure. There was always a sense that they were very interested in moving him and getting picks in the process
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The Chiefs did sort of disprove the first fallacy.
They weren’t “big” underdogs… but still underdogs from the Divisional through the Super Bowl. |
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How have I missed this thread LMAO
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