Cover 2
 

I find it hard to believe that this is our offenses kryptonite. Do we really not have an answer for it? Why is our offensive playcalling so vanilla?

It's not that I'm impatient for the deep ball, but plenty of other teams seem to find ways to punish Cover 2 and force them to play up further, and we're the only team that somehow can't.

I hardly see us use motion to our advantage like we used to. I hardly see any sort of creative playcalling unless it's some dumb trick play or shovel pass at the goal line.

You'd think running the ball into Cover 2 would gash defenses, but apparently we ****ing suck at that too. And this is all we're gonna see the rest of the season. Deep Cover 2, stop the big play, hope our offense makes mistakes and gets off the field. And so far, it's working. Do we seriously not have any answers for this?

Offense is stale, EB isn’t helping shit with his cute plays.

Line up some creampuffs to work out the kinks and build confidence.

As for running the ball, we *should* be able to take advantage. In the first half I saw HUGE holes open up that should have gone for runs of 10-15, but CEH is so slow that it goes for 4. It's like he sticks to any defender that touches him. It's like he only has one speed. He'll dance, dance, then go his one speed and get tackled by the first defender. He has no burst and no tackle breaking. Maybe Williams or McKinnon can start taking advantage of those holes.

Cover 2 is going to shut down a lot of offenses if you can't block.

We're just fine against it when we can block.

EB needs to go. He's 1 season past his expiration date. This offense has been struggling with the same shit since last year. New OL, same problem.

Yup,

No honest to god commit to the run game (seriously no feel for it either when we are killing people) and for what ever reason we run these cute plays way to much.

I mean they really easily could have scored 38 last night and those were self inflicted wounds...It’s not like teams are shutting them down. Horrible self inflicted turnovers in all 3 losses. It appears that way when the defense gives up 30 plus EVERY week

Just to play devil's advocate, couldn't you say that about any offense? Give them time in the pocket, and they'll find the open man?

No. Because Cover 2 is dropping more players into coverage.

It takes longer for routes to develop against Cover 2.

Against other defenses if there is pressure someone may be open a lot quicker.

That is another situation in our perfect storm. Sucks because he shouldn't be fired. He does genuinely deserve an opportunity somewhere and that's why the Chiefs are reluctant to get rid of him. But EB is not an innovator and that's what we need in the room right now. Promote Kafka and bring in an assistant coach or two who is going to study the hell out of college and pro offenses to find new wrinkles. Hell, bring in a veteran special consultant.

Well if that's the case, our guy's really just cannot get open. There were lots of moments last night where Mahomes had all day in the pocket and just couldn't find anyone. Credit to Buffalo, but it's not the first time this season where Mahomes has held on to the ball forever cause there just wasn't anyone there.

Teams are showing cover 2, but they are rolling/disguising coverages and playing mixed coverages more often than it seems, which is something I think Mahomes was trying to allude to in his tweet today.

To me, it's players not all properly executing the plethora of option routes built into the Chiefs' scheme when they see cover 2. The options do help beat the rolling coverages rather than relying on just running straight-up flood concepts to beat cover 2. How many times have we seen the WTF looks from Mahomes because he and his receivers not named Hill or Kelce aren't seeing the same thing? Alot. I think it's mental for these receivers and they don't have guys that can out-muscle a defender on a tight throw into a covered zone so Patrick doesn't make the throws there. Hopefully they have one coming in Gordon.

We can't run the ball.

We should be punishing teams on the ground but we can't.

Our scheme also is horrible and stale. Two players run actual routes. Everyone else stands around. When the play breaks down everyone stands around including the guys who ran the initial routes. No one works open downfield.

There's no intensity, emotion or heart. The offense looks completely defeated and uninspired. It's bad. We will continue to beat up on bad teams but it's going to be a mess against any good team we play until Andy and EB can figure something out.

Did you miss the games where we ran for 186 and 200 yards?

What opportunity DOES he deserve, really?

With his spotty personal background and not being an innovator as you stated, he's probably really topped out his potential, and THAT'S why he didn't get an offer.

It's possible he's just like Nagy and Pedersen, and Pedersen only held on in Philly as long as he did because he caught lightning in a bottle with Big Dick Nick when they won the SB. It's even possible that he's not as good as those guys, because being on a staff with Andy Reid and Mike Kafka while Patrick Mahomes is the starting QB can probably cover up an awful lot of deficiencies for awhile. But in the NFL, your deficiencies will always get exposed eventually.

Traditionally, there's usually space in the seams for TEs to work the middle because the safeties are in that 2 shell.

You'd think Reid and EB would've tried to exploit that more with Kelce...

Teams don't fear our run game and definitely don't fear CEH. I really wish KHunt never did what he did and we would have probably won 2 SB's with him and you wouldn't see defenses playing like they are now.

This offense needs to find a very good RB and upgrade the WR position a little next year.

It's not scheme - it's execution. Again.

I can think of at least 17 points that came off the board yesterday for KC strictly because of piss-poor execution.

Teams are making the Chiefs work harder for longer to score. And if the Chiefs execute, they'll still score. But by making it take 11-12 plays instead of 3-5, the Chiefs have to execute more often at an equally high level.

Too often they haven't been able to. I think there's some SB hangover here and I think they may be reading some press clippings.

You have to hope this ass-kicking focuses them back in.

If Cover 2 was some miracle cure, it wouldn't have fallen out of favor a decade or more ago. It's a fine philosophy but nothing that hasn't been exploited a hundred times over. And yes, the Chiefs and Reid know how to exploit it.

They're just not executing at a high level.

Just saw a break down where the Bills came out in Cover 2 and one of the safeties shifted down to take away the middle of the field.

Mahomes needed one more second in the pocket to let one rip to take advantage of the safety coming down, but pressure got there.

The Bills did an amazing job on defense.

1. I agree.

2. I think there are a number of little factors impacting this. Like, the need for EB to be involved in play calling. Or the need to feed the ball to our first round running back. Or our entirely new and young offensive line. Or demanding that Patrick have better pocket discipline. Or the fact that there are just more distractions this year vis the year we were focused on winning a championship and the repeat year where covid shut everything down.

3. I also think Andy and co believe we are a playoff team, so why try to be perfect in the first part of the season. I think they are saving plenty for games that really matter.

I don't think it's our Kryptonite, but I do think that many defenses understood that a vast amount of plays come from the deep threat that Tyreek, Mecole, and Sammy provided, allowing Travis and others to work underneath. You know how they say that when you get down and goal to go that it gets harder to score if you can't run the football, it's because you're cutting off part of the field and limiting the options the offense has to score. Those two high safeties are the back of the endzone and they reduce the amount of plays Mahomes can run confidently. This will force Mahomes to change plays at the lines more effectively, but he has to call the right audible to punish the defense, and in that there's a disconnect between what Andy and EB are providing Mahomes, or if he has those audibles and knows the play, he's not making the right decisions in switching his reads. Or the defense has taken away the deep threat and know the audibles that Mahomes relies on most frequently so they can easily guess between the safeties and the Dline on where he's most likely going with the ball. They've gotta switch it up and keep them guessing, but it also falls to the OLine to give Mahomes the time, it relies on the receivers to keep moving in their zones to create separation and hope he flushed out to your side of the field, alot of variables.

Once the Offense settles in when a Leslie Frazier does this and can comfortably precision pass a 2 deep look to death by a thousand Alex Smith throws, this era will be over. Running over every one would be great but we can't seem to do it reliably.

Well, more like Brady and less like Alex Smith. The short passes should mean something.

Need a lot more from the receivers in this area.

A large part of the problem was the Chiefs trailing for so much last night that they couldn't audible into runs because they were behind.

That third and two run that got ****ed really screwed us, because BUF immediately scored after and then we kinda had to abandon the run.

The Chiefs are much better when they can audible into runs when they get those looks, and are effective running, and can keep doing that. That's how we squashed Philly. We basically told them to go **** themselves with their two high and kept smashing the run.

That was the goal of the offseason - use the new OL to counter that look. Because as Sharpe keeps saying, you have to run them out of that look.

The defense the last two years has not really put the offense in the positions it's getting into now.

The only thing stopping this offense is our own execution. Period. Cover 2 is a shitty outdated coverage

I’m not sure that Mahomes likes dink and dunk plays, which you need to overcome Cover 2 if you can’t establish the run.

Combine that with us playing from behind because our defense is shit and wanting big plays, and you have a bad combination.

We also have receivers that just can’t get open and have been dropping balls.

We are ending up with a lot of 3rd and long as well.

This is garbage.

Watch the second half of the 2019 season.

The issue against Buffalo is they kept the safeties deep the same as AFC Championship game but squeezed our passing options for the RPO.

Nice counter and told Edmunds to stop hunting the RB but just stay still.

We then had no counter to that but idiotic attacks to the side of the field.

Middle of the field still wide open against Buffalo...we just needed to get a few yards deeper.

I may be wrong, but wasn’t that after his knee injury when he was less mobile?

Yes. And it forced him to stay in the pocket and go through his reads more mechanically. He was the most robotic he's ever been during that time period, and he absolutely CARVED defenses up underneath.

He still ran, but much more selectively.

Last night Patrick had clean pockets at times and was throwing off platform anyway.

He has waffled this year between staying in the pocket and just running out for no reason again. For some reason this bad habit keeps coming back.

I think drops, fumbles, playing from behind, and PTSD are contributing

I think the Chiefs just need to fix the run. Without the play action Mahomes has to fit the ball into some tight spots in between safeties and linebackers or dink and dunk. If a team has trash safeties (Washington) this isn't a problem. When they're playing a Buffalo or Denver this becomes a concern.

I’m not saying this is wrong and that what I am about to say is a full explanation but, how many times do we see defenders take Kelce out of the play by holding him and not getting flagged for it?

Accurate.

Also accurate.

It's always about blocking vs Cover 2.

You have to either block long enough to let the routes develop, or you have to smash them with the run.

We're hit or miss on that right now with the new OL. And Mahomes missing receivers, them dropping balls, doesn't help.

This isn't a coaching problem.

Run the ball. And not just out of shotgun.

Line up and destroy souls. We have the personnel to do it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Chiefs</a> need a mindset change on offense vs certain teams…<a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ESPNNFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/nKLaQYHRbm">pic.twitter.com/nKLaQYHRbm</a></p>&mdash; Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) <a href="https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1447680782714167301?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They do? Sure didn't look like it last night.

Buffalo's DTs are nasty. They gave them a lot of issues.

They still want to run out of shotgun too much.

They need some good old-fashioned Power O plays against these fronts.

I don't think this squad is capable of getting up there and just smash mouthing it for many yards.

The OL absolutely is.

They don't try honestly. Too much misdirection and running out of shotgun. They put together a new line full of run blockers. They still have a fullback on the roster. Other teams with passing attacks run the ball behind the center.

I'd love to see us go full on Marty for a series.

Give these m'fers something else to think about besides Tyreek and Kelce.

It was eerily similar to our loss in Baltimore where Baltimore and Buffalo coaches both adjusted a bit more to defend KC (nothing crazy but squeezing the RPO windows for Buffalo and Baltimore with layered pass-rush etc).

And Spags had perfect gameplan against Lamar which they then tinkered with back and we didn't adjust.

Spags against Buffalo didn't use ANYTHING that worked last year against Allen in the 1st half. Kept showing Allen our cards and leaving Sorenson alone deep...plus no pressure.

We are still contenders but not favorites anymore. Just a wounded animal that other team's best knock off soon because they won't want to see us in the playoffs.

Part of the issue for Spags now is he doesn't know WHAT to do. Because nothing they do WORKS.

They have a severely shitty front seven. And without Jones, maybe the worst in the league.

I really don't think they even have to do that. Even if it's with speed, they need someone who can make the other team pay. If you put safeties back 20 yards and drop 4-5 other guys into zone, we have to be able to rip off chunks on the ground. Even if it's on sprint or draw type plays. You don't need to Martyball it. You just need to force the safeties to come up and not be sitting in Olathe when the ball's snapped.

Agreed. They don't.

They just need a reliable method to get a DC to bail from going 2 high.

ISO, Power O, I formation with an H-back/FB clearing the way...

Getting Gordon on those slants and crossers would do wonders for that. And if you actually are effective running the ball, those safeties cheat up, which makes them susceptible to play-action/RPO.

My hope is that these struggles will help Mahomes develop as a QB. Manning/Brady level QB's take what the defense gives you because they play to win and demoralize you defensively because anything you try to do they will know what the weakness is.

Another thought I had is what would Bill Belichick do with this team on offense?
- I imagine him building his roster so he has 3 capable running backs around which to game-plan. Remember AFC Championship game 2019 where they ran it down our throat, 48 carries for 176 yards. He does not have the ego where it has to look pretty, it just has to outscore the opponent.
- I imagine him using our 4 tight ends underneath and over the middle to make the defense pay.

Those are just a couple that come to mind. Another question: What happened to the CEH that was supposed to be able to run the entire route tree? That was the defining trait that set him apart from the other backs in that draft (Swift, Dobbins). He should be an absolute weapon right now.

My favorite comment is that the key to beating the cover 2 is blocking. Let's hope our Offensive line stays healthy (Thuney hand?) and continues to gel and we can make a nice run to make it interesting this year.

Ed Oliver was throwing Trey Smith all over the field last night.


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Mahomes is doing that. Not ideal becaust dink and dunk means more plays and that's increasing the changes for stupid mistakes. More importantly, your support players have to exploit what's given to them. Our RBs should be throttling these looks. When you've got every extra guy keying on kelce and tyreek, not hard to figure out that someone else is getting no attention. Yet none of our receivers are capable of exploiting it.

Our receivers are a big problem. First, we have to get out of the mindset of having all speed guys whose strength is deep routes. Second, our receivers have to be better at playing in short and intermediate space. Pringle doesn't have the ball skills and robinson and Hardman don't seem to have the football iq to do it.

Yeah, it’s pretty disturbing knowing that teams were going to use the Tampa blue print and Andy and Eb had all off-season to figure something out. Here we are in week 6 and still haven’t found a way to make teams pay when doing it. About like SPags point of emphasis was red zone defense during the off-season and we’re dead last in that category. lol

We just scored 42 points against the Eagles.

We’ll maybe I should have said against playoff caliber teams that have good coaching and the personnel to run scheme successfully.

Chiefs are top 5 in offense overall.

They know how to beat this scheme, they just aren't executing consistently.

People REALLY need to get over this Cover 2 meme.

It's like, do you not remember when the Colts came into Arrowhead TWO YEARS AGO and butt****ed this offense 19-13?

I do. It was more excruciating than the Bills game on Sunday.

The Texans and Colts games were ****ing BRUTAL